Any Future for Nightblades? Devs contribute pls

Archie · September 2014

Nightblades are now totally broken. Instead of class improvements in the past six months, we have sadly seen that our class has been broken beyond playable.

1. Medium/stamina build unbalance is still going on. There is no solid steps from devs as to how to fix this. (watch "solid" pls. Increasing some stamina stat is not a solid step). Our best abilities simply devour magicka!!! Hello??? Are we a magicka based class, stamina based class or a mixture? According to which, I WANT to see solid steps implemented into this class to be used with medium armor pls. ASAP!
2. Shadow has been broken since release and now totally gone. Will it be fixed? If so when?
3. Totally useless skills that only decorate our skill tree!!! Devs, you can track these can't you? I look at every update for information on these. And yet there is none.
4. Stealth has now been officialy broken. We have parked our nightblades aside. Devs, what should we do now? Those who have strived not to cancel accounts are working hard to build other characters. Are you recommending this? If not, what do you recommend? Pls contribute..

Devs, Pls CONTRIBUTE something!!!!

kitsinni · September 2014

There is not much point in them even bothering. When the Champion system comes basically everything will change again anyway so they are not going to spend a ton of time fixing things right before they change them all .. well who knows this is the company that forced a VR rank change no one wanted after announcing plans to get rid of VR ranks totally.

Mondo · September 2014

NB is fine BUT we need some serious fixes and we need some smaller buffs for some of our mainskills

Only thing broken is your hard QQ

KarlosTheGrouch · September 2014

true

kitsinni · September 2014

Mondo wrote: »

NB is fine BUT we need some serious fixes and we need some smaller buffs for some of our mainskills

Only thing broken is your hard QQ

Can you even post that comment with no sense of irony? Find but with serious fixes and buffs ... that is an odd definition of fine.

Mondo · September 2014

The NB Class with his skills IS fine!

But we really need some fixes and smaller buffs. I can say that without irony. And i really mean smaller buffs not gamebreaking mechanics. Would de defs Buff cloak with an additional DMG boost like 10-30-40% on next hit you could really really use it as synergy as example

Nermy · September 2014

I love my NB...

starkerealm · September 2014

Mondo wrote: »

The NB Class with his skills IS fine!

But we really need some fixes and smaller buffs. I can say that without irony. And i really mean smaller buffs not gamebreaking mechanics. Would de defs Buff cloak with an additional DMG boost like 10-30-40% on next hit you could really really use it as synergy as example

Or if cloak lasted for 5 seconds, instead of 2.5s, which would probably be enough time to actually break line of sight (assuming that mechanic worked) and skipped the automatic stealth break on the effect's end if character would be in a hidden or semi-detected state where they were.

Mondo · September 2014

Or if we could actually restealth for Openercrit!

TheBull · September 2014

NBs are the only class with 0 Mitigation, 0 Self Heal and it shows.

#buffBlur
@ZOS_BrianWheeler‌

guybrushtb16_ESO · September 2014

Archie wrote: »

Hello???
(...)
I WANT
(...)
ASAP!
(...)
Devs, Pls CONTRIBUTE something!!!!

Maybe it's just me, but when I read things like that on the internet, I suddenly lose all ability to give any *** whatsoever.

edit: I just noticed you didn't mention how it's a kick/spit in the face to you personally, and that the devs obviously hate your class, and you didn't threaten to unsub yet. You might want to add that.

Archie · September 2014

guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »

Archie wrote: »

Hello???
(...)
I WANT
(...)
ASAP!
(...)
Devs, Pls CONTRIBUTE something!!!!

Maybe it's just me, but when I read things like that on the internet, I suddenly lose all ability to give any *** whatsoever.

edit: I just noticed you didn't mention how it's a kick/spit in the face to you personally, and that the devs obviously hate your class, and you didn't threaten to unsub yet. You might want to add that.

Sorry to hear that you give no ***. Glad that there are others who do.

cazlonb16_ESO · September 2014

My Nightblade isn't broken and plays just fine. Thanks for your concern.

purple-magicb16_ESO · September 2014

I'd like to see stealth play a bigger role in the game overall. Like having quests that require stealth to complete (assassinations, burglaries etc.) tailored to nb. In the same token they could have other quests tailored to sorc and dk abilites. Right now in this game there is no value to sneaking really, b/c its so impossible. There are enemies like every 5 feet or so. You are always being put in a position where you HAVE TO fight and I just don't find that realistic. There should also be plenty of opportunity for sneaking and stealth kills without pulling a dozen other enemies.

This kind of thing being in place would also facilitate the need to bring nb up to speed.

CapuchinSeven · September 2014

Archie wrote: »

Nightblades are now totally broken.

Broken cloak and stamina build issues aside, I really don't believe we're totally broken. I took a quick walk home for lunch and jumped online for an hour, in that hour I killed around 20 enemies without taking a single death.

This is with a twin sword as my main weapon, magic melee Nightblade.

lathbury · September 2014

All the ppl saying that there nb's are fine. No your build is fine nb has issues we are all just working around them. For example blur vs DK ash cloud? No cloak? No burst self heal, root or knockdown? If you claim agony as a valid route when damage breaks it how is that compared to talons multi target root that does damage?
There are currently very few ways to mitigate damage received, self heal reliably or escape. I'm currently using a caster nb dd for endgame pve while viable it's behind a DK dps wise luckily we bring veils. For PVP you could try ganking but unless they are on a horse or not wearing impen you will die a lot.
In big groups carrying a shield stood in veil spamming essence you are hard to kill. 1 v 1 though you will get your ass handed to you by any Templar,DK or sorc who knows their ass from their elbow.
Useless skills shades don't do enough damage debuff is to small. Anyone worth their salt will not block there crap attacks. Haste animation cancelling nuff said. Mark target could be great but why the heal does it have to debuff you as much as them and again anybody who knows what they are doing has a chance to prepare. Siphoning strikes yes again another skill that debuffs us dramaticaly not many other skills do that. Blur really? Agony meh at best. Twisting paths and morphs great I can move fast within 10 feet so is not an escape, the dots to low to be effective plus they will move. Refreshing path heal is to low to be of use.
Ambush strictly ganking which without reliable crits not viable (impen).
Their are more but you get my drift.
Also attacking from a hidden position than vanishing in the blink of an eye? Yeah that's a sorc thing not a nb one. They do more damage from stealth and have an escape that works. So what's a nb for? ATM in pve to carry vob and in pvp as easy ap if 1vs1.

TLDR
While you can make a few viable builds doesn't mean the class is fine. ZOS themselves have stated they are not more than once.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · September 2014

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

My Nightblade isn't broken and plays just fine. Thanks for your concern.

that's nice, but are you denying that the class a whole isn't currently broken? Just because you play in an unconventional way or do not rely on class skills does not mean that said class skills not working at all is okay, or that the class is not broken.

kitsinni · September 2014

Nightblade is usable and there are ways to work around the issues. Try leveling all the other classes, do PvE and PvP with them and it becomes pretty obvious that while you can excel with them they are pretty weak compared to the other classes. You can currently get high DPS with them in trials using one build with staff and light armor but that is basically the highlight.

The real issues is NB is based around two systems, stealth and crit for the most part. Stealth has more issues than you can count and crit is great for PvE but almost useless in PvP because of a single armor trait. Yes I know we have plenty of stuff that is not stealth or crit based but that is our specialization.

GreyRanger · September 2014

It seems to me we might be able to have consensus around 3 issues:

1. Zeni continues to bug/break the stealth/shadow cloak line of abilities and it would be grand if we could get that at least working as intended.
2. Stamina builds remain inferior to magica builds, which is a particular concern for NB players since many are interested in stamina based weapon builds
3. Haste is pretty much worthless attack speed powers don't have a meaningful effect in the game. It would be grand if Haste could get treatment similar to the change to Agility in the medium armor set.

There are other issues like the viability of medium armor vs. light and the usefulness of powers like Mark Target that might be more controversial, but I suspect many players might concur about the core 3 above.

For what it is worth I like the game, playing since beta, and have been playing a NB as my main. But the stealth/shadow bugs and the stamina build issues do wear me down after a while.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · September 2014

As a general "things that are wrong with NBs but don't involve broken skills" I would say my issue is that every skill we have that is powerful has some weird downside to it. This is not so with other classes.

Marked target gives the target a huge advantage against the nightblade. the downside for the caster should be like half of what it is. Even then it seems excessive, siphoning strikes has that nasty damage decrease despite it having to stay on your bar (usually both) to keep it up. Why?

Why do we have so many skill that are a trade off? Other classes don't have this, their skills just do lots of damage or debuff the target or whatever, and there is no downside. Sorcerers get a downside for pets, but it's negligible compared to the massive hit NBs take.

Kego · September 2014

lathbury wrote: »

All the ppl saying that there nb's are fine. No your build is fine nb has issues we are all just working around them.

Every class has issues and working around them. That is the reason for building a build.

For example blur vs DK ash cloud? No cloak? No burst self heal, root or knockdown? If you claim agony as a valid route when damage breaks it how is that compared to talons multi target root that does damage?

Yeah we don't have these, because than we would be DKs. Instead of these tool we got AOE Fear + Snare, Cloak (yes its buggy now don't q.q.), Long duration Stun out of stealth, best Ressource Management Skill with Siphoning Strikes, Teleport.

1 v 1 though you will get your ass handed to you by any Templar,DK or sorc who knows their ass from their elbow.

If you cant play, then yes, they will all own you.

http://youtu.be/vAl7j0hjOJI?t=5m1s

There are lots of Builds for NB. Some shines with ganking other with survival or mixed builds that are worthless in PvE but works great for PvP.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

My Nightblade isn't broken and plays just fine. Thanks for your concern.

that's nice, but are you denying that the class a whole isn't currently broken? Just because you play in an unconventional way or do not rely on class skills does not mean that said class skills not working at all is okay, or that the class is not broken.

I always try a lot of Skills be it Stamina or Magicka.
Atm:

Destruction Staff:
- Crushing Shock
- Crippling Grasp
- Funnel Health
- Impale
- Mass Hysteria
- Flawless Dawnbreaker

Restoration Staff:
- Quick Syphon (Grand Healing in Grp PvP)
- Rapid Regeneration
- Healing Ward
- Shadow Image (Teleport Morph)
- Dark Cloak
- Veil of Blades

That makes 7 Class Skills out of 12. I find that more than enough class skills.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · September 2014

Kego wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

All the ppl saying that there nb's are fine. No your build is fine nb has issues we are all just working around them.

Every class has issues and working around them. That is the reason for building a build.

For example blur vs DK ash cloud? No cloak? No burst self heal, root or knockdown? If you claim agony as a valid route when damage breaks it how is that compared to talons multi target root that does damage?

Yeah we don't have these, because than we would be DKs. Instead of these tool we got AOE Fear + Snare, Cloak (yes its buggy now don't q.q.), Long duration Stun out of stealth, best Ressource Management Skill with Siphoning Strikes, Teleport.

1 v 1 though you will get your ass handed to you by any Templar,DK or sorc who knows their ass from their elbow.

If you cant play, then yes, they will all own you.

http://youtu.be/vAl7j0hjOJI?t=5m1s

There are lots of Builds for NB. Some shines with ganking other with survival or mixed builds that are worthless in PvE but works great for PvP.

By lots of builds do you mean LA/staff? Because playing down the fact that some key abilities are broken and acting like working around that is acceptable is just wrong.

"It doesn't affect my gameplay so it is fine."

Varicite · September 2014

TheBull wrote: »

NBs are the only class with 0 Mitigation, 0 Self Heal and it shows.

#buffBlur
@ZOS_BrianWheeler‌

You are deliberately exaggerating the situation, or know nothing about NB abilities, and it shows.

Comments like these are extremely unhelpful.

If you were to write things that were actually based in reality, it would be much easier to take your concerns seriously.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · September 2014

Varicite wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

NBs are the only class with 0 Mitigation, 0 Self Heal and it shows.

#buffBlur
@ZOS_BrianWheeler‌

You are deliberately exaggerating the situation, or know nothing about NB abilities, and it shows.

Comments like these are extremely unhelpful.

If you were to write things that were actually based in reality, it would be much easier to take your concerns seriously.

Our mitigation currently isn't working (cloak) and is oftentimes ineffective in pvp. Our self heal (funnel health) requires us to have an opponent to attack, and is significantly weaker than other classes.

I think that is more in line with reality.

Cloak is what I care about personally.

JessieColt · September 2014

With the exception of a couple of real issues that have been mentioned, it seems that some people are upset that Nightblades are not a faceroll class.

I have a DW/NB VR10 (Nearly VR11) and I have minor issues with PvE. I do not PvP so I cannot address any complaints or issues that PvP players have with the Nightblade.

I use a mix of both Class and Weapon skills. I do not rely solely on one or the other. I balance the needs of my NB.

I have also stacked most points into Stamina. Along with armor and enchants that increase Stamina. And food buffs that boost stamina.

Is this 'working around' issues. Sure! That is why the Nightblade is not a faceroll class.

Each class is supposed to have both strengths and weaknesses. You are not supposed to do everything with a single class.

You do not like that you cannot faceroll a Nightblade, then pick another class to play.

Otherwise L2P!!!!! If that includes work-arounds for the weaknesses of the class then congratulations, you actually have to THINK in order to play a NB.

If you do not want to have to think, or accept the challenge of managing your Stamina, or would rather just faceroll through everything, then play another class.

Those of us who have taken the time to L2P a NB are not having issues.

Varicite · September 2014

JessieColt wrote: »

With the exception of a couple of real issues that have been mentioned, it seems that some people are upset that Nightblades are not a faceroll class.

I have a DW/NB VR10 (Nearly VR11) and I have minor issues with PvE. I do not PvP so I cannot address any complaints or issues that PvP players have with the Nightblade.

I use a mix of both Class and Weapon skills. I do not rely solely on one or the other. I balance the needs of my NB.

I have also stacked most points into Stamina. Along with armor and enchants that increase Stamina. And food buffs that boost stamina.

Is this 'working around' issues. Sure! That is why the Nightblade is not a faceroll class.

Each class is supposed to have both strengths and weaknesses. You are not supposed to do everything with a single class.

You do not like that you cannot faceroll a Nightblade, then pick another class to play.

Otherwise L2P!!!!! If that includes work-arounds for the weaknesses of the class then congratulations, you actually have to THINK in order to play a NB.

If you do not want to have to think, or accept the challenge of managing your Stamina, or would rather just faceroll through everything, then play another class.

Those of us who have taken the time to L2P a NB are not having issues.

Most people who only PvE don't really care much about the fact that Cloak has been broken since beta. Let's be honest, it's extremely rare that one needs to Cloak away from mobs.

I understand that you are not having issues in PvE, but it seems a bit obtuse to not even attempt to sympathize w/ those who are having troubles w/ broken mechanics in other areas of the game, simply because you do not enjoy them.

When bringing issues to light, a lot of us whom enjoy both parts of the game equally try to look at the class as a whole, and how it performs in all roles in all areas of the game.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

NBs are the only class with 0 Mitigation, 0 Self Heal and it shows.

#buffBlur
@ZOS_BrianWheeler‌

You are deliberately exaggerating the situation, or know nothing about NB abilities, and it shows.

Comments like these are extremely unhelpful.

If you were to write things that were actually based in reality, it would be much easier to take your concerns seriously.

Our mitigation currently isn't working (cloak) and is oftentimes ineffective in pvp. Our self heal (funnel health) requires us to have an opponent to attack, and is significantly weaker than other classes.

I think that is more in line with reality.

Cloak is what I care about personally.

This is much more helpful when trying to relay concerns w/ the class, imo. : )

lathbury · September 2014

A long duration stun from steath . Stealth and cloak are broken. As I said funnel health and crippling crasp are good. The teleport morph of shades is ok but nothing like be. I'm not suggesting we have all of the skills but 1 decent cc root, aoe cc mass hysteria fails quite a bit in my experience, damage shield, burst heal or escape would go along way. The implication that ppl need to l2p is stupid checkout any of the duel competitions DK's and Templars FTW must be coincidence that all the best players happen to be those classes. Couldn't possibly be a balance/borked skill issue?
Btw I play a DK as well and I can tell you now any DK would wreck that nb build all projectile cast thank you very much reflective scales ftw

.

Sablemane · September 2014

Kego wrote: »

I always try a lot of Skills be it Stamina or Magicka.
Atm:

Destruction Staff:
- Crushing Shock
- Crippling Grasp
- Funnel Health
- Impale
- Mass Hysteria
- Flawless Dawnbreaker

Restoration Staff:
- Quick Syphon (Grand Healing in Grp PvP)
- Rapid Regeneration
- Healing Ward
- Shadow Image (Teleport Morph)
- Dark Cloak
- Veil of Blades

That makes 7 Class Skills out of 12. I find that more than enough class skills.

You lost my support as soon as I saw the word "staff". I don't entirely agree with the OP, but stealth radius and SC need to be repaired. Everything else about NIghtblades is absolutely fine including non-class specifics like Medium armor and DW abilities which I use on one of my NIghtblade characters.

TheBull · September 2014

Varicite wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

NBs are the only class with 0 Mitigation, 0 Self Heal and it shows.

#buffBlur
@ZOS_BrianWheeler‌

You are deliberately exaggerating the situation, or know nothing about NB abilities, and it shows.

Comments like these are extremely unhelpful.

If you were to write things that were actually based in reality, it would be much easier to take your concerns seriously.

Compared to DK's Dragons Blood, Templar heals/Blazing shield mitigation, and Sorc hardening ward, NBs have next to 0 mitigation and 0 self heal. Better?

It's laughable to even compare swallow soul to Dragons Blood. DKs healsfor 33% missing health, boost health regen by 40% AND recoves 27% stam with one freaking press of the button.

Same thing can be said about blur compared to hardening ward or blazing shield. Do you understand now?

TheBull · September 2014

lathbury wrote: »

A long duration stun from steath . Stealth and cloak are broken. As I said funnel health and crippling crasp are good. The teleport morph of shades is ok but nothing like be. I'm not suggesting we have all of the skills but 1 decent cc root, aoe cc mass hysteria fails quite a bit in my experience, damage shield, burst heal or escape would go along way. The implication that ppl need to l2p is stupid checkout any of the duel competitions DK's and Templars FTW must be coincidence that all the best players happen to be those classes. Couldn't possibly be a balance/borked skill issue?
Btw I play a DK as well and I can tell you now any DK would wreck that nb build all projectile cast thank you very much reflective scales ftw .

Thank you, but we do have Blur! wtf ZOS... smh.

Redlag · September 2014

I agree with Lathbury.

Kego, I run the same spec as you and I sit behind everything to wait for you to open on someone else. Once you do you're dead and you can't do anything about. You know it and I know it. One difference between you and me is that I run Mark. You're dead. You're not out dodge rolling me. You not gonna turn around and out DPS me. You're not gonna get away, because you're marked and you have no class tools to even the odds in any way.

You kill bad players. That's all. Everyone in this thread is a NB and everyone with your spec knows a DK spamming reflect negates your entire build and you get to do nothing but spam cloak as he chain talon lava whips you and highlights you in his PvP video. Same with a Templar and blazing shield. That's why you run healing warden. So you can try to get out of there and get the big heal. You're simply not killing a good Templar who knows he has blazing shield and a reliable heal. Let alone if he goes offensive and stuns your stamina dry. Sorcerers are a toss up.

That said.

I can't stand all the attention to bows. We shouldnt have to go bow to get ranged openers or round the class. I would like to see siphoning heals boosted or a ranged magicka opener that doesn't put me next to the target. One or the other. I feel like the dps is no better than my DKs, Templars, surely not more than my Sorcerers. It's subpar magicka dps considering the lack of real survival all the other classes get.

I don't think refreshing path or sap essence is on par to the two AoEs the other classes get. If we don't get reliable heals like everyone else. They should be doing more damage or healing more no matter how many targets we hit. If we don't get reliable absorbs, reflects, armor buffs our damage on single target spells NBs should be doing more damage than theirs.

If NBs arent suppose to heal good or have sustained because we could go for big openers take a good hard look at Kegos build above. That's desperation right there. That's knowing the big openers/finishers just aren't working or making a solid class. That's us stacking so much trying to just sustain and heal ourselves. It's so mediocre subpar in every way on top of it. So I ask if we shouldn't have reliable heals or higher dps because of our openers than what's the entire siphoning line for? Gimped turd. I say. That's why NBs are either given into bow gank for a real assassins opener or still trying to find survivability.

This entire game is funny.Templars and DKs charge in and live forever against the odds, stupidly, but using our class abilities our killing power is situation. Just let me stupidly reliably get in and kill someone and get out without having to resort to a bow.