Srugzal wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

So, it's easier to crank out PvP/Group content than it is PvE or Solo/Faction content.

Yup, I agree completely. I'd take it a step further, and observe that, because of what you pointed out, the group content is less expensive to produce.

Bingo.

Why does PvP keep coming up in this? We haven't gotten *** for updates either, you know. And we are participating in the original and originally forecasted for the future endgame.

We got the biggest shaft of anyone, and yet we get used as your pve sacrificial lamb while you whine about how unfair it is that there is content for your style of play, but not content you can solo.

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

JoffyToffy69 wrote: »

Lol, buys an mmo,
Then complains about the 'mm' part.

Buys a MMO.
But doesnt even know that MMOs =/= Group only gameplay.

When ESO is even remotely close to "group only gameplay", this might be a valid statement.

As it stands, there is 1 zone for group play, 1 zone for PvP, and literally every other zone in the game is designed for solo play.

Irrelevant , because like it was already said multiple times , the entire pvE endgame is group play.

There is not even contest to this.

A solo players end their exp lvling at VR10 , now we are at VR14.

If zen had one person , just one would have been enough , with a brain in their entire dev team they would have realized the issue and craglorn would also be VR1/10 , this way people would pick to lvl by grouping or solo questing (which would already deliver a major edge to grouping since we all know grinding exp in packs is much faster than quest lvling).

But since they lack this thing we call a brain , they didnt notice the issue , now we need an entire new solo zone to fix their stupidity , problem is , since they lack a brain , thus we wont see this problem fixed until next year probably.

Hell , i would say this game was better organized at launch than now , and boy considering how bad it was , that is saying something.

Except that they are already working on another solo zone. And two more guild storylines.

Exactly what would a "solo endgame" look like to you, just out of curiosity?

Varicite wrote: »

Exactly what would a "solo endgame" look like to you, just out of curiosity?

There can't be a solo engame.
When you create 4-12 players content, you can safely assume some players in those groups will be bad geared and / or bad, others will be average, others will be good. That is, you can craft precisely designed difficulty content knowing that the more players do it, the more homogeneous and predictable their performance will be.

At the opposite side, try making solo content that may actually be called "end game". You get the uber geared super-raider who can grind it with his eyes closed and no effort and you get the complete imbecile with the worst spec EVER, mismatched gear and awful (and bad trained) skills who is CERTAINLY going to die and RUN TO THE FORUMS! demanding massive nerf to the content.

What happened with the unneeded and absolutely excessive VR content mega-nerf? Exactly that: insanely terribles could not kill more than 1 mob at a time so they mass unsubbed, rioted, whatever until ZoS had to make VR a mere bump on the road.


On the contrary, this does not justify ZoS for not creating compelling > VR10 level up content in line with the first 1-VR10 levels.
That's just atrocious mismanagement of them, even the most terrible F2P game has level up content to max cap.

This game is a solo player's paradise, so far as MMOs go.

Name one other AAA MMO that has forced-solo play as part of the main quest.

<crickets>

I like to play solo and take my time. The few times I played in a group they ran through so fast I could hardly keep up, it was NO fun to play like that.

Sablemane wrote: »

Ideally the game would fully support all three play styles, and I am sure ZOS fully intends to realize this in time as it maximizes revenue, but more importantly FUN. Assuming, that is, they are indeed fans of their own work. The thing that has saved me from most of the frustration my fellow solo players have experienced is the fact, that this time around, I decided to level all of my characters "simultaneously". Eight characters moving in increments of 3-5 levels is really drawing out the solo experience. All are level 36 at the moment pushing 40. Hopefully by time I hit 50 on all, champion system will hit the streets.

The issue isn't about play styles as I am a group player and hate Raid and Dungeon only content just like solo players might hate dungeons and raids too if they were soloable.

What ZO needs is a variety of content, stuff for the RP player like housing, for the raid nerd like raids and for the quest friend like zones with stories and long quest chains.

This isn't about solo or group, its about the variety in content to choose from. Someone who likes raids might just not like the group aspect, someone who likes to quest might not like the solo force there etc.

cathyshively101b14_ESO wrote: »

I am not a social butterfly, nor do I rely on others to create for me the things I need in playing this game with each level I gain. I don't like grouping with others and I don't like PvP. Maybe long ago, but not anymore. I'm a loner, I like it that way. Keeps me from getting pissed off with others that do stupid things without thinking. Seems that everytime I purchase a really good game I like, it goes all out PvP or Grouping in order to get anything decent. Excuse me developers.. NOT EVERYONE is a pvp'ing groupie. Now that you've spent so much time in this area, please spend the same amount of time in the Single PvE area of the game where we too can get some decent stuff? Every danged treasure chest I come across is simple only and I'm in VR levels. Everything is simple with crap for loot.... what gives? Ok, I've ranted which I normally never do. Doesn't mean I feel better for it though.

I'm pretty much the exact same, I don't like PvP at all, I avoid it like the plague.

In most MMOs I have played I am always the solo player, I don't mind it. I'm having fun and that's all that matters to me.

Though I don't mind having a friend to play with, I did have a friend that was almost like my twin, we both had all these same interests and we played different MMOs together just us together but real life called him one day and his wife had a baby and he had to quit and that was the end of that...

I would ask if you wanted to add me as a friend but then I read "Keeps me from getting pissed off with others that do stupid things without thinking." so I guess that wouldn't be a good idea since you would be pissed off a lot lol, I'm not the best player and can make the dumbest mistakes sometimes or distracted from real life, another reason why I avoid grouped content.

I'm mostly an alt fanatic and just love to level up characters, I take all the professions and provide all my own mats/equipment, can't remember the last time I ever bought anything from anybody or asked anybody for anything.

I have done this in WoW, SWTOR, Lotro and now ESO.

I think the main reason I became like this is having dealt with all the rude people in video games over the years, talking down on you, telling you how bad you are and stuff like this just made me avoid people in video games, I just got tired of it.

I have plenty of friends in real life though but they wouldn't be my friends if they gave me the same treatment I get from players in these games.

But yeah, they need to add more solo content for us. If they're only going to keep adding hard modes and vet ranks group content, basically only catering to one crowd then I guess I'm going to have to pack up and move on, I still have fun in those other mmorpgs that I mentioned, it was just nice to experience this since it's still new and I still haven't experienced all of the zones of the other factions which is what I'm doing now.

I think if they add more variety for end game then this has a better chance at surviving and will grow.

We're supposed to be getting thieves/dark brotherhood guild but I don't think that's coming until many months away but that also isn't going to be enough.

There's plenty of stuff they can add for variety.

Dailies, not sure if we have these already.

Player housing

A profession to create furniture and things for the home, woodworking? Probably don't need a new profession.

Solo dungeons/events sort of like Lotro's Skirmish dungeons, they reward marks where if you get enough you can use them to purchase items, maybe could also add vanity stuff to purchase, costumes, pets, mounts, etc

Tasks, where Lotro also has these, you collect so many of an item for a currency to buy items.

Bounties, makes you go out in the world and kill a boss

Holiday events, though they did say they would add them but never heard anything recently about them.

Playable lutes...not just a /lute but an actual button press to make your own music, don't have to be drastic with it, can add like 4-5 different tune buttons.

Fishing...allow us to fish anywhere...but make the nodes that shine special kind of fish, fishing feels too limited and boring since you have to search for a node to fish in.

There's so much they could do, I could add more but just realized my post is about to turn into a book so I better stop since nobody will probably read this anyways.

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Aenra wrote: »

and before the usuals drop in, do consider..

themepark with zero 1% content, and a PvP best suited to:
1) games 10 yearsd old
2) games like DAoC. Only, lol, this is a themepark

how well would it have sold WITHOUT a TES IP behind it? Do consider
(this in regards to my saying above how immensely wrong the concept was)

Dunno , but i can tell you.

Im almost completely sure i wouldnt even have looked at this game if not for the TES on the box , but even if for some weird reason i still did , i would have left after the first month for sure if not for the TES lore here.

To me this is nothing but a shadow filling space that would be much better occupied by the next TES game ... only problem is that we all know how long one of those takes to get ready.

That's how I feel/felt about Age of Conan. THAT was a game that had the most ASTONISHING potential... and was utterly destroyed by soooo many inept decisions. It will very likely never recover and the odds of ever getting ANOTHER Conan MMO that can do it right...slim to none. So for an Elder Scrolls MMO...this is what we have. There's no point in waiting for the "next one" so we better fight hard to make sure the same things that happened in AoC do not happen here.

I concur with the OP.
Give us some solo quests!

One thing about another MMO I played was the ability to go back and replay quests I enjoyed. Whether the monsters, the dungeon layout, or even the aesthetics bring you back, there was a reason I wanted to replay certain quests. Here, you cannot.

Do I have some quests left I could do? Sure, what fun to go back to a level 20 area at VR12- I have before, but feel more like im intruding on any player of appropriate level in the same area.

The village is saved, the wounded healed, the orcs driven from the cave, now lets wander around and collect stuff, and collect more stuff and..you get my meaning.

Go PvP is not the answer, and if it is then canceling my sub, when its up, will be easier than I anticipated a few months ago.

GreySix wrote: »

This game is a solo player's paradise, so far as MMOs go. Name one other AAA MMO that has forced-solo play as part of the main quest

Please note that I do not agree with forced Solo play, but it is not something that I choose to get that upset about. I think that all forced solo areas of the game should allow groups that scale to the leader.

That said, I applaud the attempt from ZOS to make the game more attractive to people who are used to single player games. If they can work out the balance between these different groups, ESO will be a good bridge game.

Audigy wrote: »

What ZO needs is a variety of content, stuff for the RP player like housing, for the raid nerd like raids and for the quest friend like zones with stories and long quest chains.

Only ZOS knows what their full plan is, but what they have shared with us indicates that this is the direction they are going. Unfortunately, a plan like this will never generate consensus and, in the current environment, will always have a group of people vocally upset that "Mom and Dad" are ignoring them. No matter what feature ZOS does, a fairly large group of people will not be interested in it. For every feature, there is a group that will say that another feature is more important. If there ever is a feature that has a broad appeal, the "fix the bugs first" people will be there to make sure that the forum remains in contention.

Elvent wrote: »

But yeah, they need to add more solo content for us. If they're only going to keep adding hard modes and vet ranks group content, basically only catering to one crowd then I guess I'm going to have to pack up and move on

@Elvent: You are free to do that, but I do have to side with the people who say that the bulk of the content in the game is aimed at solo players already. PVP needs help more than PVE solo and group, and those who are paying attention know they are working on PVP. Likewise, there is a lot of content for PVE, including stuff that will be of interest to solo players, in the pipeline. It is just a matter of when.

I refuse to ignore that content for me is coming, perhaps behind other content that I am not interested in, just so I can rage against ZOS for not putting me first.

As a solo (MMO) PVE player, I am well aware up front that I will see a lot of PVE group and PVP content rolled out before I will see a lot of new stuff that will interest me. Update 4 has almost nothing for me, and I am completely fine with that.

MornaBaine wrote: »

So for an Elder Scrolls MMO...this is what we have. There's no point in waiting for the "next one" so we better fight hard to make sure the same things that happened in AoC do not happen here.

I do not know what decisions you are referring to that were made about AoC and where those decisions came from. I am all for making sure that ESO does not follow AoC, if in fact AoC was ruined, as you say.

However, I think my concept of how to do this is fundamentally different from yours. Zenimax has a plan for ESO and I think it includes a game that will appeal to a variety of players. To do that, they will undoubtedly have to throw out some of the time honored traditions of past and current MMOs. They are very clearly making their own game with ESO. They are also very clearly not following the letter of the law placed down by the MMO Playbook.

What will actually make Zenimax succeed with ESO is to see what they are doing and work to make it better. Taking it as a mission to make them change it after it is released because it is not in the MMO Playbook, or it hurts the way you have built your character, may seem like a way to prevent failure, but it is more likely to cause failure.

Rather than raging against them in what will undoubtedly be an unsatisfying rant, I have decided to not become invested in making them change and to just play the game and make suggestions about how they can improve the decision that they have already made.

Doing this has a lot less personal stress and a much better chance of being successful.

Srugzal wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

They also need to maybe make it easier to FIND those solo dungeons. As it is I rely on my soul shard finder add-on to spot them. Maybe I'm missing something?

The addon you're looking for is called "Undiscovered."

That addon's support is discontinuated and recently stopped to work at least for me but it's got even better replacement which I can fully recommend:

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info667-Destinations.html

MornaBaine wrote: »

That's how I feel/felt about Age of Conan. THAT was a game that had the most ASTONISHING potential... and was utterly destroyed by soooo many inept decisions. It will very likely never recover and the odds of ever getting ANOTHER Conan MMO that can do it right...slim to none. So for an Elder Scrolls MMO...this is what we have. There's no point in waiting for the "next one" so we better fight hard to make sure the same things that happened in AoC do not happen here.

Same happend to Warhammer Online.

It has a TREMENDOUS potential. The Intellectual Property has hugely passionate fans, the creators were the same who made DAoC. The premises were all there.

It failed. And got shut down.

And we will never have another Warhammer (non 40k) MMO again.

theyancey wrote: »

Solo PvE was supposed to be one of the "Play it your way" features. New content would be added every 4-6 weeks. That has turned out not to be the case. Saddens me because it had been such a beautiful game. My sub is scheduled for another 6 month renewal in November. If I can ever get through to CS I will change that to month to month. I'll decide soon whether to keep up with that or to suspend until new PvE content scheduled for spring.

They've added content every 4-6 weeks. Update 1 was exactly 6 weeks after launch and every one since has been within the window they said they wanted to hit before launch.

The game isn't 6 months old and has had 4 updates. Do the math. Next update is scheduled for October.

I play solo a lot but like the impromptu grouping that happens where you can temporarily join forces to take down a mob. A couple of times I finished a dungeon for the achievement and as I was leaving the dungeon I saw another player coming in, noticed they were a lower level so sent a whisper "want help?" If they reply yes we don't group I just help out. I've had that happen to me as well. This is why I don't think anything should be instanced it's a virtual world that is constantly ongoing, the real world doesn't stop when we go to bed. I have many social interactions without grouping and really like that. Like others in the thread I read all the books and explore a lot. That's not possible with a fast moving kick butt group, they burn in and burn out, dungeon done. I guess what I really like about this game both is possible.

As for PVP zone, I sign up for a lot of scouting quests, which are great. You are tasked to scout a certain area, gather information then report back. I don't do a lot of fighting in those but sneak and cautiously move about especially if it's in deep enemy territory. That's what a scouting mission is though. I use my map plan the route in and back, judge where I can use my horse, sneak etc. I've been attacked on those missions, sometimes I come out on top, sometimes I don't, generally stack up on soul gems for those. One time I observed two large faction groups go at it and because they were different factions didn't join.

I guess in closing I don't want the game just to be about combat, like other ES games I like puzzles, tactics, figuring out an approach, etc. this complements solo play.

Cheers

spoqster wrote: »

I am also looking forward to solo content, but I have discovered, that with the right build it is possible to solo many parts of Craglorn as well. So that's actually nicer, because it is more challenging to do solo than dedicated solo content would be.

What I am really hoping for is something like the Dragonstar Arena for solo players.

Once they get PVP balanced, I think an Arena for PVP would be much better than an Arena for solo. However, I doubt that this would hold the attention of the PVP players for very long.

I think they could adapt Dragonstar to allow individual characters if they wanted to. It would have to be a separate experience, though.