The 2 handed weapon tree and why you keep failing to make it worthy.

Thechemicals
Thechemicals
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The 2 hander is Conan. The 2 hander in eso is not Conan. The 2 hander is supposed to wreck things and what youve made is a restricted weapon tree lacking dynamics and power to kill becuase of these restrictions. Your morphs are all wrong and made for survivability and resource management which is really stupid, no offense, but it is very stupid. You havent even looked at how bad your direction was for these skills but instead are trying to improve the way they work. Just stop andlook at them, they are silly.

1. Cleave. You added a damage shield to a morph? Really? A damage shield? If im wielding a 2hander what makes you think i want a damage shield? The other morph is nice and helps but again....what makes you think i wanted a resource buffer when im cleaving sht? The tick for Cleave is terribad and slow. This skill is pathetic and made for Zorro the intelligent fighter.....not Conan the Destroyer.
2. Critical Charge is Conan. Lets move on
3. Uppercut-This skill is missing something. Its counterparts are Crystal Shard for Sorc and Dark Flare for Templar. Those skills are ranged and easy to target and have better morphs and benefits. Uppercut is melee so its already difficult to do since you are in the thick of battle and everyone is interupting it. The one second cast time is wrong also, ive timed it and it is not a 1 second cast even with a clip. The morphs are okay, but lacked real power. Why on earth do i want to have a survivability morph from dizzying strike? Thats what i have a weapon swap for. Seriously...
4. Reverse slash. Potentially the best skill in the tree if you could scale its 300% damage properly. You spend most fights hitting for equal damage to light attacks except your paying stamina for it and when you finally get that 100% marker....its terribad...200% is terribad..... this skill only seems to come alive when the target is already one foot in the grave. A target at 50% of his health needs to take some serious damage from this skill otherwise your gimping this gem of a skill. Your splash damage morph is ridiculous btw, not worthy of pvp pve or stacking it with that splash passive either. Just get rid of it.
5. Momentum. You could have done something special with this skill but instead you gave a snare removing morph...sigh , and a....survivability morph with healing. First of all Momentum itself should innately have immunity to snares and immobilizes or at least the morph should give immunity, not "removes *A snare". Am i the only one that sees how poorly thought out and lacking imagination these 2 morphs are? Lastly, this skill shouldnt even have an animation. Its Momentum, just give him a shiney effect and let him actually gain some Momentum rather than throw his sword in that air giving everyone a heads up that he is about to....momentum.
6. Passive Forceful. This garbage isnt killing anyone. For most of the early game youll be be at 400dps roughly and thats about 100dmg to monsters that are clumpted together.When you get somewhat pro youll be doing 800dps for 200 splash damage. Oh and thats for only light and heavy attacks....seriously bad worthless skill that will be around for years unless you do something about it. Make it for all weapon attacks or change it to proc and hit a random target for 50% of the damge you hit a main target for.
7. Passive Heavy Weapons. Scale this up. The bleed is weak. The armor ignore is low. The 5% sword damage is 1-2% too low. Another gem that could actually be good if it werent so restricted to fall in line with low damage.
8.Passive Balance Blade. Generic skill is generic.
9. Passive Arcane Fighter is Conan.
10. Passive Battle rush. What happened to this skill? You made it killshot to benefit? How about we consider a killshot to also be "if im the one who did 80% of the damage. You should just change this skill into something completely different if your basing it off killshot. It wasnt always like this. This passive is a solo players super buff and a group player or pvp players turd.
Vr14 Templar since release- dual resto
Vr14 Dk bow/2h

Brayan Blackthunder
Goddick
Daggerfall Covenant

  • MorHawk
    MorHawk
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    Observant wrote: »
    I can count to potato.
    another topic that cant see past its own farts.
    WWJLHD?
  • Thechemicals
    Thechemicals
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    MorHawk wrote: »

    shut up dewd lol. My thread blow that one away. It doesnt even say anything but tears and moans.
    Vr14 Templar since release- dual resto
    Vr14 Dk bow/2h

    Brayan Blackthunder
    Goddick
    Daggerfall Covenant

  • Aeratus
    Aeratus
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    wtf is with this "Conan" crap?
  • MorHawk
    MorHawk
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    MorHawk wrote: »

    shut up dewd lol. My thread blow that one away. It doesnt even say anything but tears and moans.

    If you say so, er..."dewd".
    Observant wrote: »
    I can count to potato.
    another topic that cant see past its own farts.
    WWJLHD?
  • Tandor
    Tandor
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    Neither thread really belongs on the General Discussion board, they belong on the Weapon Skills sub-forum of the Combat and Skill Lines board.

    Much like this one, to which the OP could have added his views:-

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/130033/discussion-two-handed-skill-line#latest

    That way we'd have a consolidated discussion about the topic which the appropriate developer would be more likely to pick up on.
  • Tulerezzer
    Tulerezzer
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    Tandor wrote: »
    Neither thread really belongs on the General Discussion board, they belong on the Weapon Skills sub-forum of the Combat and Skill Lines board.

    Much like this one, to which the OP could have added his views:-

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/130033/discussion-two-handed-skill-line#latest

    That way we'd have a consolidated discussion about the topic which the appropriate developer would be more likely to pick up on.

    On the other hand, I can honestly say I have never even been to the"Weapon Skills sub-forum of the Combat and Skill Lines board". I didn't even know it existed.

    Maybe he was looking for some actual views and discussion.
  • Thechemicals
    Thechemicals
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    I want a general discussion :D thanks for your feedback though.
    Vr14 Templar since release- dual resto
    Vr14 Dk bow/2h

    Brayan Blackthunder
    Goddick
    Daggerfall Covenant

  • Tandor
    Tandor
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    He'd have found actual views and discussion in the thread I linked.

    The different main boards are listed on the front page of the forums, and when you access a main board like this one all the main boards and their sub-forums are listed on the side of the front page. It isn't hard to find them, but people are too quick to post their own topic on this board regardless of whether it belongs here or not, and regardless of whether the topic is already covered.
    Edited by Tandor on September 19, 2014 2:31PM
  • Thechemicals
    Thechemicals
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    thanks again for your feedback
    Vr14 Templar since release- dual resto
    Vr14 Dk bow/2h

    Brayan Blackthunder
    Goddick
    Daggerfall Covenant

  • MorHawk
    MorHawk
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    I don't know why folks even bother with categories at all.
    I just scan 'recent discussions' for anything interesting, and 'participated' for obv reasons.
    Observant wrote: »
    I can count to potato.
    another topic that cant see past its own farts.
    WWJLHD?
  • Thechemicals
    Thechemicals
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    So its the same 2 people posting replies on this forum lol....seriously read the content and offer actual feedback, i want to hear what you guys think. Stop being all proper n ***.
    Vr14 Templar since release- dual resto
    Vr14 Dk bow/2h

    Brayan Blackthunder
    Goddick
    Daggerfall Covenant

  • Tandor
    Tandor
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    Feedback beyond pointing out there's an existing thread with feedback about this topic on it? Ok. My 2H'er is only level 20 but I don't have any issues with the weapon skills thus far in PvE, and have no interest in PvP. It's early days of course, things might change later on.
  • Thechemicals
    Thechemicals
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    You keep selling that thread likes its any good and it is pre patch btw; Yeah... Its an 18 day old thread with less than detailed information of what the problems are. That Op is doiing the same thing the design crew is doing....trying o improve existing skills and ignoring others completely.

    Where in your link does it even mention what im talking about? Where 2h skill morphs are giving survivability and resource management when it should be doing something more in line with what a 2h does.....Wreck things.

    Sorry but that thread is junk.
    Vr14 Templar since release- dual resto
    Vr14 Dk bow/2h

    Brayan Blackthunder
    Goddick
    Daggerfall Covenant

  • Vyle_Byte
    Vyle_Byte
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    The 2 hander is Conan. The 2 hander in eso is not Conan.
    Lmao love this, too funny and OH SO true!

    I agree 100% with this OP. My main is a 2H and quite honestly, he sucks. So much so that ive resorted to trying out sword and board with him, i dont want to use that crap, i want to wreck things with my *** 2H sword! But no, i dont do nearly as much damage as my husbands nightblade counterpart, not even close. Combining 2H with heavy armor (which is how it should be ffs) survivability blows.

    The skill line is skewed. 2H needs a serious revamp. Im not saying it should be over powered, im saying there should be more power! 2H should reek havoc but when i play it i feel like im wielding a freakin 2H dagger. *poke poke* rather than *BAM POW*!!!
    Member of the Old Guard
    Mother of the Byte Family
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    Viva la Byte
  • Noisivid
    Noisivid
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    I keep picturing Conan O'Brien wearing a loincloth & weilding a claymore. It's a horrible, horrible thing.

    I've got to agree with this analysis. ALL of it.
    My DK and Sorc both use a 2Hnder as their primary. It should be about overwhelming power, smashing through blocks w/heavy attacks & staggering even opponents in heavy armour; med & light armour opponents should fare worse if they get hit. It is not this at all.

    If this had been posted in the "weapon skills" sub forum I wouldn't have seen it.
    Vogon Poet Laureate
  • Ragefist
    Ragefist
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    MorHawk wrote: »

    shut up dewd lol. My thread blow that one away. It doesnt even say anything but tears and moans.

    Agreed, this dude's thread is Conan, other one is Zorro (if Zorro was a ***)
  • Jade1986
    Jade1986
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    I agree with this 100 %. And to whoever said do not spam, if I remember correctly that is the only way we got any form of response from ZoS with the EU server migration.
  • Shunravi
    Shunravi
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    The line just feels weak, especially in comparison to alternatives.

    Bleeds suck, sure they can have potential in a dot build, but they don't stack and are poor damage. Cleave needs more damage up front and a stronger but shorter dot, and that new enchantment is just a small bandaid on the problem. It's also a cone aoe, far less forgiving than impulse or whirlwind. But more to the point, it doesn't feel like it hits like a two hander should.

    But one of my biggest issues is with uppercut. Yea, it hits hard, and is 'decent' in pve. if you get a sneak attack off with it, it wrecks. But during the fight? Let me put it this way.. I can combo destructive clench and then crushing shock (or any other move really...) on someone for a better effect and damage, and I don't have to worry about being blocked or stunned out of it. All this in melee range too... And, oh yea, destro uses majica, so I'm not having to worry as much about the high stamina price for a break free like I would if I got my uppercut interrupted.

    I could go on... But there are very good points already in the OP, let's hope someone is listening.
    This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!
  • AssaultLemming
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    Conan. Awesome. Totally agree. Some giant barbarian with a meaty 2h should be someone to be feared by my nb. Instead you look like an easy mark. 2 handers should be all about closing range, stunning, and smashing wild AE damage.
  • Ninnghizhidda
    Ninnghizhidda
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    My main is a 2-hander wielding Nord in Heavy Armour. I was hoping it would actually feel like some kind of "brute force" or "knight". Neither.

    It is quite a let down instead, especially when coupled with Heavy Armour. I also had the impression that 2-handers have a devastating effect in combat, and "shock troops" in plate using them are a fearsome sight, and you just don't mess with those chaps in melee.

    In ESO, 2-handers are nothing but "devastating". Instead the "nuclear weapons" are actually "broomsticks" and "toothpicks", and that menacing, shiny and thunderous suit of heavy plate is replaced by dresses and "bathrobes", hell it would even be thongs and bikinis, if this wasn't ESO but some Korean / Asian game instead.

    I don't think I need to go into the particular skills, you analysed them well enough. The over all feeling is that of "weak and puny", this isn't Conan, it is rather "The Tin Man with aluminium foil giant weapon", it is the best clown in the circus.
  • tordr86b16_ESO
    tordr86b16_ESO
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    I agree with the OP, 2h skills and passives needs an major overhaul and not just adding more sht ontop of the already bad passives, they need to replace them with something worth having.
  • KenjiJU
    KenjiJU
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    I agree here. The devs will slowly pick at little bits and pieces of weapon skills, but it would be better if they made beefier changes.

    Sure, we can have long boring discussions that end up being glossed over, but this kind of rant is good sometimes.
  • Exeter411
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    Also agree. My highest level character is a 2H DK, and I've found it more effective in a mob melee to use a flame staff for its faster knock-back effect.

    A faster wind-up on Uppercut would help quite a bit, I think, but it likely won't happen because of the assumption that real 2handers were huge 15 pound monstrosities. I've handled real 2 handers, and they were a lot lighter... around 4 to 5 pounds, if memory serves. Wind-up should only take about half the time.
  • MrMT
    MrMT
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    I agree. Uppercut feels like it should be one of the most powerful skills in the game. In pve, in the right conditions, it can be.

    But in pvp, it is pretty much unusable. I had dreamed of ambushes or charging in, and using that moment of stun to get off the uppercut, and then follow up with something nasty - but in practice the uppercut part rarely connects in time.

    It's a liability, and many ranged abilities are much better.
  • AngryNord
    AngryNord
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    Amen to this
  • Thechemicals
    Thechemicals
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    Let me also add that after testing this yesterday, i have noticed that cleave skills dot does not proc a crit unlike magicka dots like....all of them.

    Again, why are you devs being such tight rears about 2h.You keep upping the bows damage to be the flavor of the month as if it werent deadly already while ignoring since release the weakness in 2h.

    1. 1h and shield 10/10
    2. Bow 9/10
    3. Destro 11/10
    4. Resto 10/10
    5. dual wielding 5/10
    6. 2handed zorro/conan.

    Fix this.
    Vr14 Templar since release- dual resto
    Vr14 Dk bow/2h

    Brayan Blackthunder
    Goddick
    Daggerfall Covenant

  • Rune_Relic
    Rune_Relic
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    Weapon damage and heavy armour scale off of health instead of stamina.
    Would that help ?

    Bow scales off stamina though.
    Dynamic resource remains stamina.
    Crits scale off stamina.

    I expect heavyweight dudes to be ...well heavyweight damage.
    Not to pound me forever or get crits though.

    If I stand then and laugh at your incoming cleave.....I expect you to cleave me in two....not laugh some more.
    Edited by Rune_Relic on September 22, 2014 1:40PM
    Anything that can be exploited will be exploited
  • Gillysan
    Gillysan
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    I read the subforums all the time. People seem more aware and thorough there, while the General forums are mostly inflammatory with many more drama queens.
  • Thechemicals
    Thechemicals
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    Gillysan wrote: »
    I read the subforums all the time. People seem more aware and thorough there, while the General forums are mostly inflammatory with many more drama queens.

    r u calling me a drama queen and uninformed? :D I know a few things about this game.
    Vr14 Templar since release- dual resto
    Vr14 Dk bow/2h

    Brayan Blackthunder
    Goddick
    Daggerfall Covenant

  • Gargragrond
    Gargragrond
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    I did most pve-content with 2h where it performed adequately, but in pvp I reluctantly had to give up my trusted maul...
    However, yesterday in Cyrodiil I kept getting hit by 700point critical surges (with soft capped armor). How is this possible? Has something changed with 2h? I never got such power out of it, no matter what I tried.
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