Do you think ZOS should implement more things to the User Interface?

TehMagnus · September 2014

There's been a lot of talk lately about things being added to the User Interface (UI). Some people want changes, others don't.

It has been said that half of the game makers want to add more things and the other half just want to leave the UI as is.

I am all for more things being added and supported to the UI and this also includes addons like Wykkyds immersion which allows users to play with no UI element.

In my opinion, everything should be optional in the UI and everything should be customizable by the players. I also know that there are many bugs to be fixed in the game which is a total priority but this should be taken into account and done eventually.

I think it's time to vote so ZOS can have an idea about how people really feel like.

k9mouse · September 2014

No, I like the minimalist UI and everybody should be forced to use it or just use addons.

Don't forced your UI on my game play. Ever so called "optional" UI aspects are not really optional -- if everyone is using it, then it becomes forced down your neck. It is far better to leave them out of the default UI.

There is a reason that ZOS is allowing addons after all. Player want it they should use addons or make them own. I love the min UI and not using any addons unless I have too. Even with those addons, they are min in aspect and does not messing my screen up with garbage.

Attorneyatlawl · September 2014

Yes, they should take the most dowloaded addons from ESOUI and support them as optional features.

k9mouse wrote: »

Don't forced your UI on my game play. Ever so called "optional" UI aspects are not really optional -- if everyone is using it, then it becomes forced down your neck. It is far better to leave them out of the default UI.

There is a reason that ZOS is allowing addons after all. Player want it they should use addons or make them own. I love the min UI and not using any addons unless I have too. Even with those addons, they are min in aspect and does not messing my screen up with garbage.

You're forcing your ui on us, by not allowing the options for people who want them like nameplates and minimap, buff tracking, guild store searching with a better interface, etc. You would remain completely able to NOT use the options just like addons exist now, by simply not toggling them on in your settings menu.

.

You may like the UI but a lot don't. The only difference is you insist no one should have it how they want but yourself, while we want everyone to.

PROOF that nameplates, health bars, mana/ammo numbers, and minimaps make for a great, clean, minimalistic UI still:

ESO's is just lacking everything, from cleanliness, intuitiveness/usability, and features.

k9mouse · September 2014

No, I like the minimalist UI and everybody should be forced to use it or just use addons.

I am not forcing anyone into my min ui -- player have addons to use. I do not want it in the default UI.

Chillic · September 2014

Yes, they should take the most dowloaded addons from ESOUI and support them as optional features.

k9mouse wrote: »

Don't forced your UI on my game play. Ever so called "optional" UI aspects are not really optional -- if everyone is using it, then it becomes forced down your neck. It is far better to leave them out of the default UI.

There is a reason that ZOS is allowing addons after all. Player want it they should use addons or make them own. I love the min UI and not using any addons unless I have too. Even with those addons, they are min in aspect and does not messing my screen up with garbage.

Optional is optional. If there is an addon, you have an option to add it on your UI and no one is forcing it on you. Having it as part game would allow for more up to date support and may resolve some of the more spread out issues.

Attorneyatlawl · September 2014

Yes, they should take the most dowloaded addons from ESOUI and support them as optional features.

k9mouse wrote: »

I am not forcing anyone into my min ui -- player have addons to use. I do not want it in the default UI.

So where can I get real (not guessed with no APi info) buff tracking for myself, or tell what is attacking me in a combat log? Where can I see nameplates with an addon? Why should I be forced to maintain a fleet of 30 addons to bring the UI to a still-substandard level of functionality, with many features not even able to be made by authors due to posts such as yours?

You are indeed insisting that we are forced into your featureless gameplay. Not everyone wants to play that way, and adding these options in would not impact your screen at all. It would benefit people who do want to play in a different way than yourself.

Leijona · September 2014

No but I do agree that the current features need work to make them user friendly.

I don't think ESO should become too much like a mainstream MMO. And the UI also counts to me at that point, because it is really different.
But there are some things, that could get better, like more filters and a search field for bag, bank and guild traders.

But nobody is forced on the ui. As somebody stated out in this forums, forced would mean, that you don't have another choice, but due to addons, everyone has a choice, so nobody is forced.
Nobody would be forced with some(!) optional additions, sure.

The thing is just to define, which UI element is a necessity and should be therefor be in the game as an option and which is not a necessity by any means and should therefor be in the game only by addon.

Smiteye · September 2014

Yes, they should take the most dowloaded addons from ESOUI and support them as optional features.

Leijona wrote: »

I don't think ESO should become too much like a mainstream MMO. And the UI also counts to me at that point, because it is really different.
But there are some things, that could get better, like more filters and a search field for bag, bank and guild traders.

But nobody is forced on the ui. As somebody stated out in this forums, forced would mean, that you don't have another choice, but due to addons, everyone has a choice, so nobody is forced.
Nobody would be forced with some(!) optional additions, sure.

The thing is just to define, which UI element is a necessity and should be therefor be in the game as an option and which is not a necessity by any means and should therefor be in the game only by addon.

People are forced, the addons cannot do everything even, nor should people have to go download them to have base functions *EVERY* game provides for good reason. UI is *NOT* the gameplay and does *NOT* make the game different, it just provides clearer view into what is already happening.

ESO is an mmo. ESO is not like some other MMOs. But that is not because of the horrendously absurdly terrible UI.

By your criteria we dont need *ANYTHING* not even a chat box or mana bar because who needs to actually talk to people to play? You dont. You just want to and it makes the game more enjoyable.

I rest my case.

Leijona · September 2014

No but I do agree that the current features need work to make them user friendly.

Smiteye wrote: »

People are forced, the addons cannot do everything even, nor should people have to go download them to have base functions *EVERY* game provides for good reason. UI is *NOT* the gameplay and does *NOT* make the game different, it just provides clearer view into what is already happening.

ESO is an mmo. ESO is not like some other MMOs. But that is not because of the horrendously absurdly terrible UI.

By your criteria we dont need *ANYTHING* not even a chat box or mana bar because who needs to actually talk to people to play? You dont. You just want to and it makes the game more enjoyable.

I rest my case.

I see, that you only try to offend me and don't try to get my point, because I never even let my point come close to "we don't need anything".
As I also mentioned, I do think that there are some things, that should be improved. So as soon as you don't just want to offend me because of my different opinion, we can talk again.

For me and others, the UI is as important to the game as other things. For me it can make a game different, as my immersion is different.

Xeres14 · September 2014

No, I like the minimalist UI and everybody should be forced to use it or just use addons.

I think addons are enough. If you really want something UI related chances are there's an addon that can do it. That's good enough. ZO didn't make addons possible by accident.

Chillic · September 2014

Yes, they should take the most dowloaded addons from ESOUI and support them as optional features.

Xeres14 wrote: »

I think addons are enough. If you really want something UI related chances are there's an addon that can do it. That's good enough. ZO didn't make addons possible by accident.

And sometimes addons cause issues which is why one of the first troubleshooting steps is to disable addons. The key word is optional so no one is forced to use it. We can still call them addons so that nobody is upset that their gameplay is being ruined because in the settings there is a switch to turn on something they don't want.

TehMagnus · September 2014

Yes, they should take the most dowloaded addons from ESOUI and support them as optional features.

k9mouse wrote: »

Don't forced your UI on my game play. Ever so called "optional" UI aspects are not really optional -- if everyone is using it, then it becomes forced down your neck. It is far better to leave them out of the default UI.

There is a reason that ZOS is allowing addons after all. Player want it they should use addons or make them own. I love the min UI and not using any addons unless I have too. Even with those addons, they are min in aspect and does not messing my screen up with garbage.

What's the difference between optional elements you need to go and change that are disabled by default and addons? Same rule can be applied to addons: If everybody uses them they become mandatory?

Only difference with ZOS suporting some of them is that they won't be buggy anymore and it will be easier to manage for the hundreds of thousands of players that have downloaded the most popular ones.

Tavore1138 · September 2014

Other (please explain).

Personally I like the minimalist style of the current interface, I feel it is in keeping with the game and allows me to appreciate the game itself without stray bits of text and numbers all over the screen.

I also like that other players by default cannot see much information about who I am and what my build might be, it has the potential to cause interaction and mitigates some of the self-involved elitism that has cursed other games.

However if other players feel a need for additional features and the hooks are already there for addons then I find it increasingly diffucult to find good reasons to argue against them.

I think the key is that players get to choose if they see them. Players should also be able to choose not to be seen by them... by which I mean I can choose what info I display if you have nameplates on etc.

On top of that I think it is important that devs never ever design content that requires the features to be enabled in order to compete or complete.

Elloa · September 2014

No, I like the minimalist UI and everybody should be forced to use it or just use addons.

I'd rather Zenimax focuses on important things than UI improvement. like Dungeons scaling, mentoring system, bug fixes, new content...

People that really want changes their UI can download or create their own addons.

In addition, I believe that if Zenimax introduce the "addon-like"UI, more people will use a heavy UI by default, instead of giving the minimalist UI a chance.
I believe that a lot of players are still playing ESO in a classical MMO mindset (for example min-max build, rush their leveling etc) which decrease the enjoyement they could have from ESO by playing it with a more slow pace, enjoying more the journey, and taking the time to be immersed into the stories, the world and the combat.
While the UI is of course not changing the mindset of players, I think that to allow players to have easily access to a anti immersive, very intellectual and technical UI, it will not help those players to break down from their past MMO experience uses, and this will not help them to simply savor the game experience as it is.

What I'm saying mind sound bizarre, but I've met several persons that stopped to play ESO, unpleased by the game, and saw me playing on my LiveStream, or my videos, and decided to give ESO a second chance, toking a more casual, slow approach of the game. And they enjoyed a lot more their second experience.

For those reasons, I think it is very important to leave the customised heavy interface in the care of the addons makers, and not the game itself.

Varicite · September 2014

Yes, they should take the most dowloaded addons from ESOUI and support them as optional features.

Whether it's possible w/ an addon or not isn't the debate here, tbh.

If enough people are using the features provided by certain addons, they become something of a staple for the game.

If that is the case, they should simply be rolled into the UI as optional features, which would allow for better integration w/ the game as a whole.

Xeres14 · September 2014

No, I like the minimalist UI and everybody should be forced to use it or just use addons.

mikeandsharrahub17_ESO wrote: »

And sometimes addons cause issues which is why one of the first troubleshooting steps is to disable addons. The key word is optional so no one is forced to use it. We can still call them addons so that nobody is upset that their gameplay is being ruined because in the settings there is a switch to turn on something they don't want.

Well you're right about the troubleshooting part. I just don't think ZOS needs to add anything so long as addons are doing what you need it to do. I use 12 addons myself and I'm fine with it. One of them is a minimap addon. Does ZOS need to add that to its UI? No, not IMO. What I have going is working. That's all that matters.

Delvick · September 2014

Yes, they should take the most dowloaded addons from ESOUI and support them as optional features.

Leijona wrote: »

I don't think ESO should become too much like a mainstream MMO. ...

Sorry but this doesn’t make any sense.

Things like name plates, mini maps and combat information (not parsers) among other things, are present in all sort of MMOs, not just the standard EQ/WoW-like ones. Games like Lineage 2, Star Wars Galaxies, LotRO, SWTOR and Guild Wars among several others also have those features and with the option to toggle them off.

So asians, sand-boxes and theme parks MMOs, pretty much all of those acknowledged the value of a proper interface design that feeds the players with information that allow them to have better quality of life and make informed decisions based on data collected. And again, they all offer the option to toggle those features off for those who don’t want any of those interfering with the fancy visuals.

ESO should not be different for the sake of a marketing stunt and sacrifice some basic interface features and therefore quality of life for many, if not most, of the player base.

Of course, things like research grid, lorebook and skyshard locations, hud modifications and so on are for convenience and can come at the form of add-ons.

TehMagnus · September 2014

Yes, they should take the most dowloaded addons from ESOUI and support them as optional features.

Elloa wrote: »

I'd rather Zenimax focuses on important things than UI improvement. like Dungeons scaling, mentoring system, bug fixes, new content...

People that really want changes their UI can download or create their own addons.

In addition, I believe that if Zenimax introduce the "addon-like"UI, more people will use a heavy UI by default, instead of giving the minimalist UI a chance.
I believe that a lot of players are still playing ESO in a classical MMO mindset (for example min-max build, rush their leveling etc) which decrease the enjoyement they could have from ESO by playing it with a more slow pace, enjoying more the journey, and taking the time to be immersed into the stories, the world and the combat.
While the UI is of course not changing the mindset of players, I think that to allow players to have easily access to a anti immersive, very intellectual and technical UI, it will not help those players to break down from their past MMO experience uses, and this will not help them to simply savor the game experience as it is.

What I'm saying mind sound bizarre, but I've met several persons that stopped to play ESO, unpleased by the game, and saw me playing on my LiveStream, or my videos, and decided to give ESO a second chance, toking a more casual, slow approach of the game. And they enjoyed a lot more their second experience.

For those reasons, I think it is very important to leave the customised heavy interface in the care of the addons makers, and not the game itself.

Being one of the players that rushes leveling and maximises build, i can tell you right away: I couldn't care less about playing slower or enjoying the journey or being immersed into the stories the world and the combat. More or less UI elements will never, ever change that. I've played enough MMOs for the last 16 years to know that it's always the same and then a lil bit more of the same. Always an excuse to make you run, make you visit the city, travel, kill mobs bla bla bla. Main quests are usually exciting, side quests are just meh.

And when you actually accomplish something you don't even have the satisfaction to see that your success or your failures actually had an impact on the world since you're sharing it with other people.

Make me a real ever evolving game where actions and failures do have an impact on everybody, that everybody can see and that is not always the same (like you loose, sky turns red, you win, sky turns green and it's always that binary system with no real unknown factor) and I'll be immersed, I'll live the story, I wont even care about end game content. Sadly such MMO doesn't exist and those that promised such worlds like Rift or SWTOR failed to deliver.

If I want to be immersed in a solo story, enjoy the world and the quests, I'll play Skyrim, I'll play Oblivions for the 15th time. I don't play an MMORPG for that, I play it to compete in teams, I play for a challenge, I play for excitement, I play to improve. Minimalist UI has nothing to do with it, but it would help me play better and actually enjoy the game more if I could have more information about what is going on since I don't care about the "beauty" of the world nor the immersion. It would also help clueless people that come to the forums to cry about a mechanic instead of learning how to play against it because they have very litle means to know what's actually going on or why they are getting pwned.

That being said a decent UI doesn't stop people looking for immersion to just disable the addons and have it their way, but then again, who in their right mind could expect to find that coming into an MMORPG except fans of the series that wish this was TES6?

Chillic · September 2014

Yes, they should take the most dowloaded addons from ESOUI and support them as optional features.

Xeres14 wrote: »

mikeandsharrahub17_ESO wrote: »

And sometimes addons cause issues which is why one of the first troubleshooting steps is to disable addons. The key word is optional so no one is forced to use it. We can still call them addons so that nobody is upset that their gameplay is being ruined because in the settings there is a switch to turn on something they don't want.

Well you're right about the troubleshooting part. I just don't think ZOS needs to add anything so long as addons are doing what you need it to do. I use 12 addons myself and I'm fine with it. One of them is a minimap addon. Does ZOS need to add that to its UI? No, not IMO. What I have going is working. That's all that matters.

So what you have is working and that is all that matters... to you. This is not a single player game. Having an option in the game does absolutely nothing to those who do not wish to use it. Some of the addons are great, when they are being updated regularly. I was never able to use the mini-map because wayshrines wouldn't work. Disabled the addon, it worked. Sent in a ticket and was asked to disable the addon. This is not the case with everyone but if it was in the game, there would be more consistency(you would hope). The only difference between these opinions is one benefits everyone. If someone does not like that there is an option to toggle a UI feature than that person deserves the uncomfortable feeling because they will probably find something to complain about. I have two friends at work that didn't even make it through a month of playing because UI and the addons they were trying to use, one of them a minimap, were having issues at the time. Now, I obviously continued to play but if the option was in game than 2 more people might still be playing. I doubt these are the only two that felt this way. Appealing to more people means more subscriptions supporting a game that we hope continues to grow. So, is the option to turn on a feature worth it? I would think it is because it benefits those who want it and those who don't.

k9mouse · September 2014

No, I like the minimalist UI and everybody should be forced to use it or just use addons.

When people say "I want X in because is 'standard' in a MMO" What they are really saying, "I like WoW clones because they are standard and I want to turn ESO into a WoW clone"

Therefore, it is better to leave some aspects out of default UI and let the addons do the work. ZOS should keep the min UI.

Chillic · September 2014

Yes, they should take the most dowloaded addons from ESOUI and support them as optional features.

k9mouse wrote: »

When people say "I want X in because is 'standard' in a MMO" What they are really saying, "I like WoW clones because they are standard and I want to turn ESO into a WoW clone"

Therefore, it is better to leave some aspects out of default UI and let the addons do the work. ZOS should keep the min UI.

I have now found the dumbest comment of the day. Thank you, now I can stop searching.

ers101284b14_ESO · September 2014

Other (please explain).

Optional mini map is all it needs. Other than that the UI looks like all the other ES games so its fine

Smiteye · September 2014

Yes, they should take the most dowloaded addons from ESOUI and support them as optional features.

Leijona wrote: »

Smiteye wrote: »

People are forced, the addons cannot do everything even, nor should people have to go download them to have base functions *EVERY* game provides for good reason. UI is *NOT* the gameplay and does *NOT* make the game different, it just provides clearer view into what is already happening.

ESO is an mmo. ESO is not like some other MMOs. But that is not because of the horrendously absurdly terrible UI.

By your criteria we dont need *ANYTHING* not even a chat box or mana bar because who needs to actually talk to people to play? You dont. You just want to and it makes the game more enjoyable.

I rest my case.

I see, that you only try to offend me and don't try to get my point, because I never even let my point come close to "we don't need anything".
As I also mentioned, I do think that there are some things, that should be improved. So as soon as you don't just want to offend me because of my different opinion, we can talk again.

I'm offended by you ignoring what I said. You said anything not essential. That was your criteria, not mine. Sorry but quoting your own words is not in any way offensive, if you feel that is then you should not have said it in the first place.

By your definition:

"The thing is just to define, which UI element is a necessity and should be therefor be in the game as an option."

You do not need chat boxes. You want them to communicate but do not need to in order to play the game.

Healthbars, ditto.

Magicka bar... yup.

The argument is backwards... the real argument is when ZOS should implement basic User Interface settings so everyone can play how they want. And I say ASAP.

Smiteye · September 2014

Yes, they should take the most dowloaded addons from ESOUI and support them as optional features.

k9mouse wrote: »

When people say "I want X in because is 'standard' in a MMO" What they are really saying, "I like WoW clones because they are standard and I want to turn ESO into a WoW clone"

Therefore, it is better to leave some aspects out of default UI and let the addons do the work. ZOS should keep the min UI.

How many times does it need to be repeated? The user interface *IS NOT THE GAMEPLAY*. Elder Scrolls Online suffers with the terrible UI it has. The gameplay is great, the UI is not. Fix the UI and the game becomes better as a whole.

Elloa wrote: »

I'd rather Zenimax focuses on important things than UI improvement. like Dungeons scaling, mentoring system, bug fixes, new content...

People that really want changes their UI can download or create their own addons.

Those aren't important compared to having a basic functioning UI , the lack of which is driving people away new and old from the game entirely. Addons aren't an answer for basic stuff. And you cant make everything with addons anyway, no nameplates, no proper minimap (current ones have big performance hits as well as many bugs due to api limitations), no proper combat log (can't see what hit you!), no real buff tracking (addons just guess if you press a button that you cast it, no debuffs at all either), etc.

Fix the game. *THEN* add content!

Slurg · September 2014

Other (please explain).

No I don't think the developers should take the most downloaded add-ons and include them in the game. That's intellectual property theft.

I do think they should listen to user feedback and develop their own optional extra UI features that we can enable or disable from the settings menu.

If they don't care to do this and want everyone to use third party add-ons, they should make a statement to this effect. I personally don't care to use add-ons because I don't install third party software from random people on my computer for security reasons.

k9mouse · September 2014

No, I like the minimalist UI and everybody should be forced to use it or just use addons.

UI can take away from the game play, thus it needs to be kept min. If a player wants their UI "mess it up" by addons, that is their problem, but ZOS should try to keep to their vision and keep the UI to a min.

Xeres14 · September 2014

No, I like the minimalist UI and everybody should be forced to use it or just use addons.

mikeandsharrahub17_ESO wrote: »

So what you have is working and that is all that matters... to you. This is not a single player game. Having an option in the game does absolutely nothing to those who do not wish to use it. Some of the addons are great, when they are being updated regularly. I was never able to use the mini-map because wayshrines wouldn't work. Disabled the addon, it worked. Sent in a ticket and was asked to disable the addon. This is not the case with everyone but if it was in the game, there would be more consistency(you would hope). The only difference between these opinions is one benefits everyone. If someone does not like that there is an option to toggle a UI feature than that person deserves the uncomfortable feeling because they will probably find something to complain about. I have two friends at work that didn't even make it through a month of playing because UI and the addons they were trying to use, one of them a minimap, were having issues at the time. Now, I obviously continued to play but if the option was in game than 2 more people might still be playing. I doubt these are the only two that felt this way. Appealing to more people means more subscriptions supporting a game that we hope continues to grow. So, is the option to turn on a feature worth it? I would think it is because it benefits those who want it and those who don't.

Well yeah. It works. Here's really what it boils down to. I don't need a minimap. I really can live without it. But I thought it could be useful so I went and looked for an addon. IMO that's not something I'd expect ZO to work on. Let them work on the important stuff. Leave the minimaps and skyshard locations and other kinda extra stuff to the addon authors.

k9mouse · September 2014

No, I like the minimalist UI and everybody should be forced to use it or just use addons.

I heard it said and I quote:

"Games like WoW, people play the UI and not the game." With a min UI, people are more focus on the world, thus are not playing the UI.

Caspur · September 2014

No, I like the minimalist UI and everybody should be forced to use it or just use addons.

It is an "Elder Scrolls" game so I say keep it minimal. All other ES games are and this should not be different even if it is a MMO.

Smiteye · September 2014

Yes, they should take the most dowloaded addons from ESOUI and support them as optional features.

k9mouse wrote: »

UI can take away from the game play, thus it needs to be kept min. If a player wants "mess it up" by addons, that is their problem, but ZOS should try to keep to their vision and keep the UI to a min.

This isnt MIN it is non-existent. Terrible design and is costing them players.

Smiteye · September 2014

Yes, they should take the most dowloaded addons from ESOUI and support them as optional features.

k9mouse wrote: »

I have it said and I quote:

"Games like WoW, people play the UI and not the game." With a min UI, people are more focus on the world, thus are not playing the UI.

Sorry but having to watch my hands for a specific buff is not immersing me in the game more than just seeing a quick icon telling me if my debuff landed or not. I am focusing on one tiny spot on the screen instead of the game because I dont have buff timers or debuff readings from spells I have cast. The job of a proper UI is to inform you of things clearly and let you play the game, not force you to have no clue what is happening.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Do you think ZOS should implement more things to the User Interface?

Do you think ZOS should implement more things to the User Interface? 240 votes