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HUGE Stamina buff!
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I was just looking and theory crafting but not tried it yet
the principle is same as weaving light attack and poison arrow
but light attack, reserved slash
they look simlar in cost and dmg0 -
thelordoffelines✭✭✭✭✭They should have made this limited ron1h/shield or bow then stam users will know what its like to be forced to use a certain weapon to regain resources.
Realism aside, this will most likely be a good buff for stam users. It may look q little weird at first, but it will be good.0 -
felinith66✭✭✭Luvsfuzzybunnies wrote: »felinith66 wrote: »ExiledKhallisi wrote: »felinith66 wrote: »b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »It may be a big buff to stamina build gamewise, but does anyone feel it sounds a bit weird that swinging a great sword, instead of costing, gains you stamina? Shouldn't casting heavy attacks actually be tiresome? I hope they can come up with a good explanation on this skill/passive or whatever.
I agree. This is a really weird mechanic. A restoration staff restoring magicka does make sense. The same way a destro staff heavy attack doesn't restore magicka makes sense. Why not apply this buff to light attack instead? It makes more sense that you save/recover stamina when you're not attacking all out.
Same thing with resto staff...you use power to gain power....
You cant talk realism in fantasy. You will never win.ExiledKhallisi wrote: »felinith66 wrote: »b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »It may be a big buff to stamina build gamewise, but does anyone feel it sounds a bit weird that swinging a great sword, instead of costing, gains you stamina? Shouldn't casting heavy attacks actually be tiresome? I hope they can come up with a good explanation on this skill/passive or whatever.
I agree. This is a really weird mechanic. A restoration staff restoring magicka does make sense. The same way a destro staff heavy attack doesn't restore magicka makes sense. Why not apply this buff to light attack instead? It makes more sense that you save/recover stamina when you're not attacking all out.
Same thing with resto staff...you use power to gain power....
You cant talk realism in fantasy. You will never win.
Why do you think it's called a RESTORATION staff? And i can talk about realism in fantasy and win. Does ESO not have any component in it based on reality? Do you not fall to the ground when you walk off a ledge? Do you not run out of stamina when you sprint? Isn't that what you would call realism in a fantasy game? Every fantasy has reality in it. Name me one fantasy game, movie, book that doesn't have anything based on reality in it. Just one. Then you can tell me I can't talk about realism in fantasy and win.
On that note then you should accept this just as well as you accept summoning a familiar. It's called a restoration staff because it is used to perform the healing rituals of the game that are not class based but you alreasy knew that why be foolish and think you should regain your classes "stamina" from a heavy attack if you wanna talk about realism. It doesn't make any sense if you are channeling a small portion of magical to shoot a ranged attack at someone to refund you magicka for holding it longer now does it?
I don't really understand what you're talking about. I have no problems w/ fantasy elements in the game. But you can't deny that there are also realistic elements in the game. To say that realism cannot exist in a fantasy world is just ignorant. And the fact that not a single fantasy story exists without elements of reality in it just proves my point.
Regarding restoration staff properties, we'll just have to agree to disagree, cuz it makes sense to me that a restoration staff would restore your magica. And if ZOS goes through w/ heavy attacks restoring stamina then I would be fine with it. I have 4 VR toons and 3 of them are stamina based. That doesn't mean I can't question them about the said change, especially when Heavy attacks cost stamina in TES games.0 -
tordr86b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm a Dunmer Vampire Fire Mage (DK). U mad bro? XDEdited by tordr86b16_ESO on September 14, 2014 9:06AM1 -
CapuchinSeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sounds great. +1
The more I think about it this is a great idea, to fix magic/stamina they either needed to nerf light armour and restro staff OR buff the hell out of all weapons.
Well, in one simple move this will buff all weapons. Great idea, can't wait to see it.Edited by CapuchinSeven on September 14, 2014 9:34AM2 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭thelordoffelines wrote: »They should have made this limited ron1h/shield or bow then stam users will know what its like to be forced to use a certain weapon to regain resources.
Realism aside, this will most likely be a good buff for stam users. It may look q little weird at first, but it will be good.
What a completely silly response.
Stamina users already know what it's like to be forced to use a certain weapon to regain resources.
We're forced to use resto / destro staff if we want to regain resources AT ALL, because currently, no stamina weapon regains resources.
I can't believe a magicka build is complaining about this when literally both of the magicka weapons have restoration mechanics on top of Equilibrium, while stamina has.... yeah, nothing.0 -
GwaynLoki✭✭✭ExiledKhallisi wrote: »-Weapon heavy attacks excluding staves will replenish stamina.
I'd be careful to call this a "HUGE stamina buff" before you know how much stamina will be returned.1 -
MorHawk✭✭✭✭✭Ugh. The realism vs fantasy debate gets so old.
Yes, it is to be assumed that, unless told otherwise, the rules of 'reality' apply, however if it serves the game to restore stamina on heavy attacks, then that over-rides it. Just like it serves the game to not have realistic needs (food, sleep etc), and, as I always used to say on the old forums, putting your helmet on in first-person doesn't reduce your view to nothing but two rectangular slits.
This is the same as the various times when ESO, along with previous ES games, has contradicted existing lore. Because it suits the narrative. As Wonka so eloquently said, "we are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams".Interesting. This could also have some impact on light attack weaving. Heavy attacks aren't as "weavable", and if the heavy attacks become necessary for sustain...
Indeed. This could well go a long way to mitigate animation cancelling. Pretty darn smart, methinks.I can count to potato.
WWJLHD?Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »another topic that cant see past its own farts.0 -
MorHawk✭✭✭✭✭Heavy attacks have less dps than Light attacks as well
depends on the weapon. (excluding weaving, of course)
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/light-attacks-vs-heavy-and-igneous-weapons/
Now that is interesting. Even without Igneous...ness, it looks like this will prove to be far more useful for melee users than Bow ones. And perhaps that is exactly the buff they needed.I can count to potato.
WWJLHD?Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »another topic that cant see past its own farts.1 -
guybrushtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭I would be very cautios about how that change turns out. Judging by their past work, it appears the devs in charge don't know anything at all about their animation system and how it works behind the scenes. For example, various channeled abilites have much longer duration then their tooltip states, and consequently are a dps loss, some have an unlisted internal cooldown after them for no reason whatsoever, and the elephant in the room, animation cancelling, which they didn't see coming at all.
In this instance, light attacks and heavy attacks are on the same cooldown, so what that means is you can weave light attacks before/after skills, but you can't do so with heavy attacks. It probably can't get any worse with this change, but I'm not so sure it will have the desired effect either.Edited by guybrushtb16_ESO on September 17, 2014 12:46PM0 -
Xeres14✭✭✭This is a step in the right direction. However part of the problem will still be present so long as dodging, sprinting and blocking consume stamina.1
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MorHawk✭✭✭✭✭
As frustrating and downright illogical as @CapuchinSeven's posts have often been for me, I completely sign my name to something he's often said, namely that a focused magicka build has survivability demands on it too. All classes gain significant survival benefits from heals/shields etc, just as they do from blocking and dodging. Build for magicka and you can do the former efficiently, build for stamina and you equally get all kinds of discounts to dodge rolls, block cost, stamina abilities etc.This is a step in the right direction. However part of the problem will still be present so long as dodging, sprinting and blocking consume stamina.
Now, bear in mind I am not in any way saying that the survivability of someone who can spam Dragon Blood/Reflective Scales is in any way equal to one who can block a whole bunch, simply that stamina isn't the only resource that all classes get significant and often essential defensive benefits from.
Really, given how much more useful GDB is in a heavy fire situation than blocking, I think folks would be more justified complaining about all the demands on magicka. [sarcasm]I have to share my magicka bar with heals! Separate resource for healing please![/sarcasm]Edited by MorHawk on September 17, 2014 2:22PMI can count to potato.
WWJLHD?Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »another topic that cant see past its own farts.0 -
CapuchinSeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭As frustrating and downright illogical as @CapuchinSeven's posts have often been for me
Because you refused to listen to a simple point myself and others were trying to explain to you and others. All discussion on each others opinions and views on builds was pointless and just went around and around. Micromanaging stamina builds and abilities wasn't the way to fix the problem; a fix to stamina regen was what many of us were trying to get across.
People raging and CAPSING over two handed weapons abilities, not getting a gap closer or needing another bar to dodge were totally missing the point and the bigger picture.
Anyone with a 900DPS stamina build and a 900 DPS magicka build could see where the problem was, the only illogical people were those trying to micromanage trees and abilities, claiming lacks of DPS, without addressing stamina gain.
Once this is in place then we can start talking about which trees and abilities need altering, because we'll actually know now.2 -
MorHawk✭✭✭✭✭CapuchinSeven wrote: »As frustrating and downright illogical as @CapuchinSeven's posts have often been for me
Because you refused to listen to a simple point myself and others were trying to explain to you and others. All discussion on each others opinions and views on builds was pointless and just went around and around. Micromanaging stamina builds and abilities wasn't the way to fix the problem; a fix to stamina regen was what many of us were trying to get across.
People raging and CAPSING over two handed weapons abilities, not getting a gap closer or needing another bar to dodge were totally missing the point and the bigger picture.
Aaaand *more* others were agreeing with me. A page worth at one point, as I recall. And anyone that agreed with you was ignorant of the problem we were discussing and wasn't listening.
See what I did there? Same logical fallacies you're pulling. But anyways. Didn't tag you to rehash the same old facepalmery. Let's try to stay on the topic at hand, shall we?I can count to potato.
WWJLHD?Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »another topic that cant see past its own farts.0 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »I would be very cautios about how that change turns out. Judging by their past work, it appears the devs in charge don't know anything at all about their animation system and how it works behind the scenes. For example, various channeled abilites have much longer duration then their tooltip states, and consequently are a dps loss, some have an unlisted internal cooldown after them for no reason whatsoever, and the elephant in the room, animation cancelling, which they didn't see coming at all.
In this instance, light attacks and heavy attacks are on the same cooldown, so what that means is you can weave light attacks before/after skills, but you can't do so with heavy attacks. It probably can't get any worse with this change, but I'm not so sure it will have the desired effect either.
There seems to be a lot of misinformation going on in this thread, both about heavy attack dps, and now about channeled abilities.
To my knowledge, the currently highest parsing stamina DPS builds revolve almost entirely around DW heavy attacks and Flurry (channeled ability), while keeping DoTs active.
There are also very good 2 handed builds, which revolve around Wrecking Blow (channeled ability) and heavy attacks, while keeping DoTs active, Executioner during low-health phases.
There currently aren't any stamina builds that I know of that focus on light attacks and spam skills that are able to achieve 1k+ DPS.
Please feel free to post some boss fight parses and prove me wrong, but I'd assumed that this was pretty common knowledge by now.
If you are achieving high DPS currently (1k+), you are already more than likely using heavy attacks in your rotation. This change just helps your longevity.
0 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭Its as bodged as a bodge can be....but its a useful bodge none the less.
lolEdited by Rune_Relic on September 17, 2014 4:10PMAnything that can be exploited will be exploited0 -
CapuchinSeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭CapuchinSeven wrote: »As frustrating and downright illogical as @CapuchinSeven's posts have often been for me
Because you refused to listen to a simple point myself and others were trying to explain to you and others. All discussion on each others opinions and views on builds was pointless and just went around and around. Micromanaging stamina builds and abilities wasn't the way to fix the problem; a fix to stamina regen was what many of us were trying to get across.
People raging and CAPSING over two handed weapons abilities, not getting a gap closer or needing another bar to dodge were totally missing the point and the bigger picture.
Aaaand *more* others were agreeing with me. A page worth at one point, as I recall. And anyone that agreed with you was ignorant of the problem we were discussing and wasn't listening.
See what I did there? Same logical fallacies you're pulling. But anyways. Didn't tag you to rehash the same old facepalmery. Let's try to stay on the topic at hand, shall we?
AAAAAND ZOS disagreed with you and decided the issue is with stamina regeneration.
Whatever, I don't totally disagree with your points or even feel a need to argue BUT others like me with 900 DPS stamina builds and ZOS all seem to be on the same page, bringing stamina regen up to magic regen was the only place to start, changing anything before that was dealt with would have created many issues with balance in the future.Heavy attacks have less dps than Light attacks as well
depends on the weapon. (excluding weaving, of course)
http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/light-attacks-vs-heavy-and-igneous-weapons/
Now that is interesting. Even without Igneous...ness, it looks like this will prove to be far more useful for melee users than Bow ones. And perhaps that is exactly the buff they needed.
This is pretty old news and has been know for sometime for anyone trying to build a decent stamina build.Edited by CapuchinSeven on September 17, 2014 4:31PM1 -
CapuchinSeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭
There currently aren't any stamina builds that I know of that focus on light attacks and spam skills that are able to achieve 1k+ DPS.
Yeah I agree, I was confused as well. I can think of one 800+ Flurry build that I remember seeing which was pretty awesome but that seemed to do almost the same DPS with light or heavy attacks.
I don't know of any 1k build using light attacks (I could be wrong), they all use heavy attacks and this is only a good thing.Edited by CapuchinSeven on September 17, 2014 4:29PM0 -
reften✭✭✭✭✭Well this buff has nothing to do with PvP. I never use heavy attacks in Cyrodiil...and can't remember a time when I saw in my death recap a heavy attack.
Sure maybe people will use them more, but if you're trying to replenish stamina through slow attacks...you're going to be dead. Stamina potions do a much better job for this.
Confused why people are so excited about this...maybe for PvE I guess...?Reften
Bosmer (Wood Elf)
Moonlight Crew (RIP), Misfitz (RIP), Victorem Guild
VR16 NB, Stam build, Max all crafts.
Azuras & Trueflame. Mostly PvP, No alts.
Semi-retired till the lag is fixed.
Love the Packers, Bourbon, and ESO...one of those will eventually kill me.0 -
CapuchinSeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well this buff has nothing to do with PvP. I never use heavy attacks in Cyrodiil...and can't remember a time when I saw in my death recap a heavy attack.
Sure maybe people will use them more, but if you're trying to replenish stamina through slow attacks...you're going to be dead. Stamina potions do a much better job for this.
Confused why people are so excited about this...maybe for PvE I guess...?
...the main way to restore magic in PVP is with a heavy attack...
My PVP stamina DW build as well as my Concealed Weapon magic build clip a heavy attack during a stun.0 -
MorHawk✭✭✭✭✭
Frig, this guy knows how to push my buttons. Latest fallacy highlighted, for your convenience. "Everyone who's smart agrees with me". You really are one arrogant little piece of work. As I said countless times, I never once said that stamina regen wasn't an issue! Can you get that through your thick...nope, gonna try and not react here.CapuchinSeven wrote: »AAAAAND ZOS disagreed with you and decided the issue is with stamina regeneration.
Whatever, I don't totally disagree with your points or even feel a need to argue BUT others like me with 900 DPS stamina builds and ZOS all seem to be on the same page, bringing stamina regen up to magic regen was the only place to start, changing anything before that was dealt with would have created many issues with balance in the future.
I agreed with that assertion, and yes, doing regen first is a smart move, but neither that nor ZOS's intentions nor anything else change the various skill discrepancies.
Yet more arrogance. It's like it's a handicap with you. You're physically incapable of discussion without attempting to flap your epeen around. Guess I should have known better than to tag you earlier. Was hoping that we could move forward on common ground. Well done proving me wrong.CapuchinSeven wrote: »
This is pretty old news and has been know for sometime for anyone trying to build a decent stamina build.Now that is interesting. Even without Igneous...ness, it looks like this will prove to be far more useful for melee users than Bow ones. And perhaps that is exactly the buff they needed.
I deserve a frigging medal just for not losing it with you here.Edited by MorHawk on September 17, 2014 5:07PMI can count to potato.
WWJLHD?Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »another topic that cant see past its own farts.0 -
ZeroTheCat✭✭guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »I would be very cautios about how that change turns out. Judging by their past work, it appears the devs in charge don't know anything at all about their animation system and how it works behind the scenes. For example, various channeled abilites have much longer duration then their tooltip states, and consequently are a dps loss, some have an unlisted internal cooldown after them for no reason whatsoever, and the elephant in the room, animation cancelling, which they didn't see coming at all.
In this instance, light attacks and heavy attacks are on the same cooldown, so what that means is you can weave light attacks before/after skills, but you can't do so with heavy attacks. It probably can't get any worse with this change, but I'm not so sure it will have the desired effect either.
There seems to be a lot of misinformation going on in this thread, both about heavy attack dps, and now about channeled abilities.
To my knowledge, the currently highest parsing stamina DPS builds revolve almost entirely around DW heavy attacks and Flurry (channeled ability), while keeping DoTs active.
There are also very good 2 handed builds, which revolve around Wrecking Blow (channeled ability) and heavy attacks, while keeping DoTs active, Executioner during low-health phases.
There currently aren't any stamina builds that I know of that focus on light attacks and spam skills that are able to achieve 1k+ DPS.
Please feel free to post some boss fight parses and prove me wrong, but I'd assumed that this was pretty common knowledge by now.
If you are achieving high DPS currently (1k+), you are already more than likely using heavy attacks in your rotation. This change just helps your longevity.
Very interesting. Any links to such a build?
) 0 -
purple-magicb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I don't comment here often but when I do, I get [snip]1 -
ers101284b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »
That's exactly what I was thinking about when I posted it lol.1 -
CapuchinSeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's like it's a handicap with you.
Dude, you're the one reading malice into a post that was simply stating a fact while responding with personal insults like you're 12, that information has been known for sometime.
Anyone, and it's not hard, with a 900+ DPS build could see the problem for what it was. If you want to treat that as a bash of your ego, then so be it. I'm truly sorry you feel upset, I have no intention of making you upset. Hell knows how I'd do my job if I had a flap like you every time someone disagreed with me at work.Edited by CapuchinSeven on September 17, 2014 5:22PM1 -
reften✭✭✭✭✭CapuchinSeven wrote: »Well this buff has nothing to do with PvP. I never use heavy attacks in Cyrodiil...and can't remember a time when I saw in my death recap a heavy attack.
Sure maybe people will use them more, but if you're trying to replenish stamina through slow attacks...you're going to be dead. Stamina potions do a much better job for this.
Confused why people are so excited about this...maybe for PvE I guess...?
...the main way to restore magic in PVP is with a heavy attack...
My PVP stamina DW build as well as my Concealed Weapon magic build clip a heavy attack during a stun.
yeah I tried that, and by the time I get the heavy attack off, the player has either moved out of range or broke out of the stun....Reften
Bosmer (Wood Elf)
Moonlight Crew (RIP), Misfitz (RIP), Victorem Guild
VR16 NB, Stam build, Max all crafts.
Azuras & Trueflame. Mostly PvP, No alts.
Semi-retired till the lag is fixed.
Love the Packers, Bourbon, and ESO...one of those will eventually kill me.0 -
Spudone✭Just want to point out for thoes arguing bout the stam or magika restoration on heavy attacks can be attributed to a cantrip like system. You spend some resource to get more resources.
kinda like you use 2 to get 3, its not uncommon for games to take a system similar to that transitioning.
Also stam does need a buff if your complaining just to complain than stop now please. If your a magika user and dont want to compete with stam, this isnt big enough to compete with you so please stop.
Haters gonna hate, and accomplish nil.Edited by Spudone on September 17, 2014 6:03PM0 -
Tamanous✭✭✭✭✭guybrushtb16_ESO wrote: »I would be very cautios about how that change turns out. Judging by their past work, it appears the devs in charge don't know anything at all about their animation system and how it works behind the scenes. For example, various channeled abilites have much longer duration then their tooltip states, and consequently are a dps loss, some have an unlisted internal cooldown after them for no reason whatsoever, and the elephant in the room, animation cancelling, which they didn't see coming at all.
In this instance, light attacks and heavy attacks are on the same cooldown, so what that means is you can weave light attacks before/after skills, but you can't do so with heavy attacks. It probably can't get any worse with this change, but I'm not so sure it will have the desired effect either.
There seems to be a lot of misinformation going on in this thread, both about heavy attack dps, and now about channeled abilities.
To my knowledge, the currently highest parsing stamina DPS builds revolve almost entirely around DW heavy attacks and Flurry (channeled ability), while keeping DoTs active.
There are also very good 2 handed builds, which revolve around Wrecking Blow (channeled ability) and heavy attacks, while keeping DoTs active, Executioner during low-health phases.
There currently aren't any stamina builds that I know of that focus on light attacks and spam skills that are able to achieve 1k+ DPS.
Please feel free to post some boss fight parses and prove me wrong, but I'd assumed that this was pretty common knowledge by now.
If you are achieving high DPS currently (1k+), you are already more than likely using heavy attacks in your rotation. This change just helps your longevity.
One of the biggest misconceptions is around Flurry too is that it's animation makes it a dps loss. I have no idea what the long term changes to animation clipping is from ZoS but for those who do not know the skill can be clipped before the final blow animation goes off and there bye making spamming the skill much faster than the animation suggests.
To those thinking Flurry sucks ... well, it in fact offers superior damage if clipped correctly. When my templar was spec'd both bow and dw (currently is spec'd dw/dw specialist) my Flurry did more damage on average per single channel than my Bow crit from stealth (I opened with snipe with roll buff from armor set which is far more damage anyway). No other DW skill even comes close to it's dps output and honestly it makes rather relaxing game play to weave heavy and flurry together as it doesn't seem like such a button spam instant cast weaving is. One can still block/dodge at any time to cancel the animation.
It is indeed correct though that regaining stamina in combat is the main issue. Stamina builds CAN do decent dps but sustaining it is the issue.0 -
Tamanous✭✭✭✭✭tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »I'm a Dunmer Vampire Fire Mage (DK). U mad bro? XD
Please stop trolling.1 -
Francescolg✭✭✭✭Buffing stamina abilities will just shift fotm-strategies.
I am not confident about too much pro-stamina changements given that stamina-reggen machanics are already imba. For example the Templar can buff stamina-reggen.
People will always adapt, so you'll see more and more bow + melee weapons and less staffs. Question is, where stays the "magic powers" character of mmorpgs. If the game will be more pro-stamina (in general) it may become much less attractive..0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihd4G9XxJOc&sns=em