HUGE Stamina buff!

PBpsy

GnatB wrote: »

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

It may be a big buff to stamina build gamewise, but does anyone feel it sounds a bit weird that swinging a great sword, instead of costing, gains you stamina? Shouldn't casting heavy attacks actually be tiresome? I hope they can come up with a good explanation on this skill/passive or whatever.

Same reason that casting heavy attacks with your resto staff restores magica?

(It makes exactly as much sense. Which is to say, none)

The resto staff regen makes magick sense.The magick of your staff makes your magicka regen. The truth we rarely use the heavy resto attack anyway . Swinging a maul making you less tired doesn't even make magick sense.

I find the 'huge buff' ridiculous and I am not even interested in ever using stamina. If you really want to improve stamina sustain reduce all cost by 20% or increase regen by 20/30 % with anything other than staves and S&B. Stamina on heavy weapon attacks is a joke.

ArconSeptim

Where can we find video recording?

R1ckyDaMan

No it is backwards a heavy swing of a weapon should use up stamina not give some back.

Nihili

-edit-, my post posted twice and I can't delete the second one. SO eerr. These are not the droids you're looking for.

Nihili

What I'd like to see happen for stamina builds is a little ambitious. What do you guys think of this: ZOS should allow the player to choose whether the block/roll costs are stamina costs or magicka costs. This way, someone who wants to make a stam build can make the roll costs magicka based, in which case he/she would have the opportunity to slot more stam skills on his/her bar as it wouldn't be so draining to use it.

Stupid? Is this something ya'll have heard before and I'm missing something?

b92303008rwb17_ESO

GnatB wrote: »

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

It may be a big buff to stamina build gamewise, but does anyone feel it sounds a bit weird that swinging a great sword, instead of costing, gains you stamina? Shouldn't casting heavy attacks actually be tiresome? I hope they can come up with a good explanation on this skill/passive or whatever.

Same reason that casting heavy attacks with your resto staff restores magica?

(It makes exactly as much sense. Which is to say, none)

I am not against the idea that casting heavy attacks restores magicka or stamina. I actually welcome both if they provide some explanation or story to justify this mechanism or at least make sense.

I mean, at least for me, one of the best thing about ESO is that although it is basically a fantasy mmo, it is somehow more realistic than the others and I hope they can keep it that way as much as possible. What I am asking is a little bit of explanation or story behind this mechanism that makes people feel "Oh, ok, it makes sense. Not just another fantasy ***." I don't think it is that hard if they can made up so many great quests lines.

tino.antoninieb17_ESO

I welcome all changes which will lead to stamina / magicka builds balance. I personally dont care how they will do it as far it is done.

felinith66

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

felinith66 wrote: »

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

It may be a big buff to stamina build gamewise, but does anyone feel it sounds a bit weird that swinging a great sword, instead of costing, gains you stamina? Shouldn't casting heavy attacks actually be tiresome? I hope they can come up with a good explanation on this skill/passive or whatever.

I agree. This is a really weird mechanic. A restoration staff restoring magicka does make sense. The same way a destro staff heavy attack doesn't restore magicka makes sense. Why not apply this buff to light attack instead? It makes more sense that you save/recover stamina when you're not attacking all out.

Same thing with resto staff...you use power to gain power....

You cant talk realism in fantasy. You will never win.

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

felinith66 wrote: »

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

It may be a big buff to stamina build gamewise, but does anyone feel it sounds a bit weird that swinging a great sword, instead of costing, gains you stamina? Shouldn't casting heavy attacks actually be tiresome? I hope they can come up with a good explanation on this skill/passive or whatever.

I agree. This is a really weird mechanic. A restoration staff restoring magicka does make sense. The same way a destro staff heavy attack doesn't restore magicka makes sense. Why not apply this buff to light attack instead? It makes more sense that you save/recover stamina when you're not attacking all out.

Same thing with resto staff...you use power to gain power....

You cant talk realism in fantasy. You will never win.

Why do you think it's called a RESTORATION staff? And i can talk about realism in fantasy and win. Does ESO not have any component in it based on reality? Do you not fall to the ground when you walk off a ledge? Do you not run out of stamina when you sprint? Isn't that what you would call realism in a fantasy game? Every fantasy has reality in it. Name me one fantasy game, movie, book that doesn't have anything based on reality in it. Just one. Then you can tell me I can't talk about realism in fantasy and win.

Nazon_Katts

Faulgor wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

felinith66 wrote: »

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

It may be a big buff to stamina build gamewise, but does anyone feel it sounds a bit weird that swinging a great sword, instead of costing, gains you stamina? Shouldn't casting heavy attacks actually be tiresome? I hope they can come up with a good explanation on this skill/passive or whatever.

I agree. This is a really weird mechanic. A restoration staff restoring magicka does make sense. The same way a destro staff heavy attack doesn't restore magicka makes sense. Why not apply this buff to light attack instead? It makes more sense that you save/recover stamina when you're not attacking all out.

Same thing with resto staff...you use power to gain power....

You cant talk realism in fantasy. You will never win.

It's not exactly about realism, but consistency within the game world. The Restoration staff heavy attack is a channeled magical drain, like other absorption abilities - that vampire skill, siphoning strikes, weapon enchantments, etc. It makes sense within the game world. The stamina drain for all heavy attacks of melee weapons does not. It is not consistent with the design of the stamina attribute, which is spent for physical activites and regained over time or by magical spells and potions.

Yeah, that suspension of disbelief bit's just going to be even harder to achieve with such silly mechanics. I know it's pretty much needed for the current system, but that doesn't speak well for it in the first place. They need to rework that thing from the ground up or it'll just get worse.

Nohup

This is sounding a bit like the "Rage" mechanic in WoW;
You hit something, your bar goes up. You use that bar to do further damaging attacks.

I liked it in WoW, (warrior tank FTW) but not sure how having the same bar tied to dodging and blocking is going to work.

I guess we'll just have to playtest the heck out of this as soon as it hits the test servers.

ExiledKhallisi

felinith66 wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

felinith66 wrote: »

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

It may be a big buff to stamina build gamewise, but does anyone feel it sounds a bit weird that swinging a great sword, instead of costing, gains you stamina? Shouldn't casting heavy attacks actually be tiresome? I hope they can come up with a good explanation on this skill/passive or whatever.

I agree. This is a really weird mechanic. A restoration staff restoring magicka does make sense. The same way a destro staff heavy attack doesn't restore magicka makes sense. Why not apply this buff to light attack instead? It makes more sense that you save/recover stamina when you're not attacking all out.

Same thing with resto staff...you use power to gain power....

You cant talk realism in fantasy. You will never win.

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

felinith66 wrote: »

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

It may be a big buff to stamina build gamewise, but does anyone feel it sounds a bit weird that swinging a great sword, instead of costing, gains you stamina? Shouldn't casting heavy attacks actually be tiresome? I hope they can come up with a good explanation on this skill/passive or whatever.

I agree. This is a really weird mechanic. A restoration staff restoring magicka does make sense. The same way a destro staff heavy attack doesn't restore magicka makes sense. Why not apply this buff to light attack instead? It makes more sense that you save/recover stamina when you're not attacking all out.

Same thing with resto staff...you use power to gain power....

You cant talk realism in fantasy. You will never win.

Why do you think it's called a RESTORATION staff? And i can talk about realism in fantasy and win. Does ESO not have any component in it based on reality? Do you not fall to the ground when you walk off a ledge? Do you not run out of stamina when you sprint? Isn't that what you would call realism in a fantasy game? Every fantasy has reality in it. Name me one fantasy game, movie, book that doesn't have anything based on reality in it. Just one. Then you can tell me I can't talk about realism in fantasy and win.

-Explain how your mail magically appears in other peoples mailboxes?
-Complain about how we cant dismember enemies.
-How come our characters never have to take a sh**?
-Why can we eat sweet rolls for eternity and not get fat?
-What makes the restoration staff heavy attack/light attack forever with no charges?
-How come we dont suffer PTSD and freak out every time we are near a blacksmith and flashback to the clang of steel?
-Why are all the merchants robots saying the same thing over and over?

Realism in fantasy is dumb.... that's why. Embrace this change. Stamina needs love.

Phinix1

Being able to keep up some damage while regenerating stamina will definitely help in longer fights (trials).

Still, I don't think there will be true balance until they add stamina-based class skill morph options.

trustcotraptb14_ESO

This is not a huge stamina buff. It's a step in the right direction for stamina builds but this alone will not fix nor enable stamina builds. Do not over-hype this.

felinith66

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

felinith66 wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

felinith66 wrote: »

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

It may be a big buff to stamina build gamewise, but does anyone feel it sounds a bit weird that swinging a great sword, instead of costing, gains you stamina? Shouldn't casting heavy attacks actually be tiresome? I hope they can come up with a good explanation on this skill/passive or whatever.

I agree. This is a really weird mechanic. A restoration staff restoring magicka does make sense. The same way a destro staff heavy attack doesn't restore magicka makes sense. Why not apply this buff to light attack instead? It makes more sense that you save/recover stamina when you're not attacking all out.

Same thing with resto staff...you use power to gain power....

You cant talk realism in fantasy. You will never win.

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

felinith66 wrote: »

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

It may be a big buff to stamina build gamewise, but does anyone feel it sounds a bit weird that swinging a great sword, instead of costing, gains you stamina? Shouldn't casting heavy attacks actually be tiresome? I hope they can come up with a good explanation on this skill/passive or whatever.

I agree. This is a really weird mechanic. A restoration staff restoring magicka does make sense. The same way a destro staff heavy attack doesn't restore magicka makes sense. Why not apply this buff to light attack instead? It makes more sense that you save/recover stamina when you're not attacking all out.

Same thing with resto staff...you use power to gain power....

You cant talk realism in fantasy. You will never win.

Why do you think it's called a RESTORATION staff? And i can talk about realism in fantasy and win. Does ESO not have any component in it based on reality? Do you not fall to the ground when you walk off a ledge? Do you not run out of stamina when you sprint? Isn't that what you would call realism in a fantasy game? Every fantasy has reality in it. Name me one fantasy game, movie, book that doesn't have anything based on reality in it. Just one. Then you can tell me I can't talk about realism in fantasy and win.

-Explain how your mail magically appears in other peoples mailboxes?
-Complain about how we cant dismember enemies.
-How come our characters never have to take a sh**?
-Why can we eat sweet rolls for eternity and not get fat?
-What makes the restoration staff heavy attack/light attack forever with no charges?
-How come we dont suffer PTSD and freak out every time we are near a blacksmith and flashback to the clang of steel?
-Why are all the merchants robots saying the same thing over and over?

Realism in fantasy is dumb.... that's why. Embrace this change. Stamina needs love.

Name me one fantasy game, book, movie that doesn't have anything based on reality in it. Just one. If realism in fantasy is dumb, you shouldn't have any problems naming me a few.

cavakthestampede

When training with martial weapons, "heavy" attacks do make you less tired, and in a prolonged fight you can sacrifice speed for endurance. This mechanic mimics that idea.

A slower overhand attack carries good power, and gravity helps more than you think. As opposed to holding a large weapon and swinging it up, or holding a blade in a single hand and quickly stabbing forward multiple times; both of these will tire you very quickly.

Varicite

Ragefist wrote: »

Heavy attacks have less dps than Light attacks as well

All of the highest parsing stamina builds currently rely on heavy attacks.

Do you have any sources that show light attack dependent stamina builds parsing above 1k dps sustained? I haven't seen any.

Varicite

Faulgor wrote: »

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

It may be a big buff to stamina build gamewise, but does anyone feel it sounds a bit weird that swinging a great sword, instead of costing, gains you stamina? Shouldn't casting heavy attacks actually be tiresome? I hope they can come up with a good explanation on this skill/passive or whatever.

Exactly. We went from attacks draining fatigue/stamina in previous games to restoring stamina via heavy attacks. That's as if sprinting restored stamina, or spells restored magicka, it's absolutely senseless. If they wanted to increase stamina recovery in combat, they just should have increased stamina recovery in combat.
Besides, it homogenizes the magicka and stamina playstyles even further. Destro staff is now the only one without an inherent resource drain.

Of all the possible changes to stamina builds, this is not the one I would have made.

Destro staff restores magicka whenever you kill an opponent w/ a destro staff skill. Resto staff restores on heavy attack.

Currently in-game, the only weapons that don't have a resource restoration mechanic are bows and melee weapons.

Stamina recovery is not the same thing as resource restoration, which BOTH of the magicka-based weapons have, and it works on top of regen which is subject to overcharging.

Destro / Resto staff users can also employ the use of Equilibrium, while no such ability exists for stamina-based builds, further compounding the issue of longevity.

And all of this is not even touching on the fact that stamina pulls quintuple duty (blocking, sprinting, rolling, damage, utility) while magicka only has 2 uses (damage and utility).

The change makes sense. I only hope that the restoration isn't a laughable amount.

Currently, the destro staff restores ~250-300 magicka on each proc (can proc multiple times, back-to-back depending on number of mobs being killed) and Resto staff heavy attack restores ~200 magicka if your magicka is softcapped (extremely common among magicka users).

Again, this is not counting resources coming from Equilibrium, or the fact that magicka has less than half the usage of stamina already.

For this new mechanic to be worthwhile, I hope to be seeing at LEAST 200 stamina restored on heavy attacks, which still puts it pretty far behind magicka's current restoration mechanics, but helps to even the playing field a bit.

Kos

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

It may be a big buff to stamina build gamewise, but does anyone feel it sounds a bit weird that swinging a great sword, instead of costing, gains you stamina? Shouldn't casting heavy attacks actually be tiresome? I hope they can come up with a good explanation on this skill/passive or whatever.

Have you seen a human turn into a wolf? That is weird.

Circuitous

Don't think of Stamina as a representation of fatigue.

Stamina is nothing more than a resource pool. You spend it on abilities and movement options, irrespective of how taxing these abilities really are. This is just a way to recover that resource.

dodgehopper_ESO

One thing that I've noticed about Stamina in general, is that the point cost of the abilities seem higher than those for Magicka. I've thought for some time that that is the source of the problem really. All things being equal, Stamina abilties just costs more to use, and all things being equal don't have the same power to cost ratio. I think that is the real problem here, particularly when you factor in that it is a shared pool with cc break/running/sneaking as many have said. I do like though that they're giving us a reason to use Heavy attacks more. Out of curiosity does anyone happen to know if you get more stamina from a 2hander Heavy attack than you would from something fast like Dual Wield? If not I can see a problem with this system already, as slower attack styles will be at a significant disadvantage.

Circuitous

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

One thing that I've noticed about Stamina in general, is that the point cost of the abilities seem higher than those for Magicka. I've thought for some time that that is the source of the problem really. All things being equal, Stamina abilties just costs more to use, and all things being equal don't have the same power to cost ratio. I think that is the real problem here, particularly when you factor in that it is a shared pool with cc break/running/sneaking as many have said. I do like though that they're giving us a reason to use Heavy attacks more. Out of curiosity does anyone happen to know if you get more stamina from a 2hander Heavy attack than you would from something fast like Dual Wield? If not I can see a problem with this system already, as slower attack styles will be at a significant disadvantage.

During the same stream they mentioned doing a once-over of various skills and adjusting cost/damage to balance them out better, so hopefully we'll see some good cost reductions or damage boosts to make the weapon skills more valuable.

Also, I don't believe that two-handed/dual-wield/one-handed power attacks are different speeds. Never seemed any different to me.I think bows are a bit slower, though, but I'm not sure. Never took a stopwatch to it. All that said, they haven't said anything yet about how much Stamina a power attack restores at all.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Out of curiosity does anyone happen to know if you get more stamina from a 2hander Heavy attack than you would from something fast like Dual Wield? If not I can see a problem with this system already, as slower attack styles will be at a significant disadvantage.

Yes this one was already thinking he should put the weighted trait on his dual weapons in the future with the 5 pc medium, that might make this Khajiit's heavy weapon attacks even faster ....

Luvsfuzzybunnies

felinith66 wrote: »

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

felinith66 wrote: »

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

It may be a big buff to stamina build gamewise, but does anyone feel it sounds a bit weird that swinging a great sword, instead of costing, gains you stamina? Shouldn't casting heavy attacks actually be tiresome? I hope they can come up with a good explanation on this skill/passive or whatever.

I agree. This is a really weird mechanic. A restoration staff restoring magicka does make sense. The same way a destro staff heavy attack doesn't restore magicka makes sense. Why not apply this buff to light attack instead? It makes more sense that you save/recover stamina when you're not attacking all out.

Same thing with resto staff...you use power to gain power....

You cant talk realism in fantasy. You will never win.

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

felinith66 wrote: »

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

It may be a big buff to stamina build gamewise, but does anyone feel it sounds a bit weird that swinging a great sword, instead of costing, gains you stamina? Shouldn't casting heavy attacks actually be tiresome? I hope they can come up with a good explanation on this skill/passive or whatever.

I agree. This is a really weird mechanic. A restoration staff restoring magicka does make sense. The same way a destro staff heavy attack doesn't restore magicka makes sense. Why not apply this buff to light attack instead? It makes more sense that you save/recover stamina when you're not attacking all out.

Same thing with resto staff...you use power to gain power....

You cant talk realism in fantasy. You will never win.

Why do you think it's called a RESTORATION staff? And i can talk about realism in fantasy and win. Does ESO not have any component in it based on reality? Do you not fall to the ground when you walk off a ledge? Do you not run out of stamina when you sprint? Isn't that what you would call realism in a fantasy game? Every fantasy has reality in it. Name me one fantasy game, movie, book that doesn't have anything based on reality in it. Just one. Then you can tell me I can't talk about realism in fantasy and win.

On that note then you should accept this just as well as you accept summoning a familiar. It's called a restoration staff because it is used to perform the healing rituals of the game that are not class based but you alreasy knew that why be foolish and think you should regain your classes "stamina" from a heavy attack if you wanna talk about realism. It doesn't make any sense if you are channeling a small portion of magical to shoot a ranged attack at someone to refund you magicka for holding it longer now does it?

Xsorus

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

-Weapon heavy attacks excluding staves will replenish stamina.
-Werewolf buffs finally 1.5

Anyone else find it ironic that werewolves will get a poison damage skill when they are weak to poison? Needless to say however, this is a huge step in the right direction towards stamina, Furthermore, ZOS needs to focus on stamina resource management including block/roll/sprint costs and using the same resource. They also need to focus on severe imbalances like Sharpened trait being overpowered with magicka skills.

Just wanted to say I am excited and thank you ZOS!

Its not poison, its Disease... huge difference

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs

Depends on how much it restores, instant, over time, regen or % back?

nightblade have a weapon buff that enables us to gain 3% total stam back on basic attacks, light or heavy, not sure if it 6% for heavy? Also all attacks have a 10% chance to restore 15% stam.

ontop of that we get 30% class passive stam regen.

combine that with race say imperial 12% stam passive, vamp stam regen passive.

add heavy passive return.

but i dnt see anyone running around in heavy and 2h?

i tried a half ass effort the other day for curiosity and i was running out of stam.

i believe it was the heavy armor, so i dnt think this change will be enough to work out as a viable vet spec dps, in hoping in wrong tho.

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs

Its just not fun playing all medium 2h, feels wrong.

but as NB it works

TheBull

This is not huge btw... Let me know when melee weapons can break shields.

Varicite

inspiral1 wrote: »

Depends on how much it restores, instant, over time, regen or % back?

nightblade have a weapon buff that enables us to gain 3% total stam back on basic attacks, light or heavy, not sure if it 6% for heavy? Also all attacks have a 10% chance to restore 15% stam.

ontop of that we get 30% class passive stam regen.

combine that with race say imperial 12% stam passive, vamp stam regen passive.

add heavy passive return.

but i dnt see anyone running around in heavy and 2h?

i tried a half ass effort the other day for curiosity and i was running out of stam.

i believe it was the heavy armor, so i dnt think this change will be enough to work out as a viable vet spec dps, in hoping in wrong tho.

It returns 3% on heavy attacks too.

I use a similar build on one of my NBs. Redguard + Siphoning Attacks + Incapacitate heavy attack buff + medium armor.

I basically just use a DoT and alternate between Wrecking Blow and Heavy Attacks while maintaining the DoT, then switch to Executioner below 25%.

Using potions when I get to around 50% stamina, I rarely run out of resources unless I need to dodge / block heavily.

I'd say the problem is probably your heavy armor. The resources are definitely not infinite w/ my setup, but as long as you manage your stamina carefully, it can be maintained.

However, I don't run Trials as my stamina NB is a pet project and is still in the low VRs, so it's more of a concept than a tested build.

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs

Okie kool how much sustain dps do u get out of that build and what lvl?

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs

Also have you tried weaving reserved slash and light attack spam?