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I guess "animation cancelling" is here to stay.
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jaebdub✭✭✭see in my mind if you are "canceling" an attack then the first attack being cancelled shouldnt deal damage.... Maybe I am wrong here but if i go to swing a sword but STOP to do something else, then my sword NEVER hit you
But if you were to animation cancel with a staff it still shoots the fireball/resto beam. The only thing you wouldn't see is a melee weapon hit the target. Lets rule out animation cancelling for only melee!Jagermeister - v14 NB
Alacrity1 -
jaebdub✭✭✭GrimMauKin wrote: »So, run this past me slowly; is animation cancelling an exploit or is it meant to be there, and have I been unknowingly using it (to be fair I've probably been hitting the skills key first and then clicking the mouse button whilst it's animating as there's little else to do until I can hit the skills key again).
It might sound silly, but playing fair is important to me.
Well the way you describe it would be backwards. You would click > skill
You can add in another level and click > skill > block... etc
These 3 can be hit rapidly immediately after each other if you practice.Edited by jaebdub on September 15, 2014 6:51PMJagermeister - v14 NB
Alacrity1 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭The same could be applied to staffs as well. I was only using melee as my example. If you go to "shoot" your LA with your staff the same should be applied. I get where everyone is coming from though. If you want to use it have fun, if you dont have fun ^_^
I guess someone should clarify though because IF the melee weapon makes contact sure i get canceling the recovery animation. Same for staff. If you shoot the fireball, frost, healing ball?, etc etc THEN cancel sure I can go along with it. I always thought it was canceling BEFORE contact (melee) or the LA for staves was done and the attack still goes through.1 -
Aeratus✭✭✭✭✭
Animation cancelling has been confirmed by ZOS (Jessica) as not an exploit.GrimMauKin wrote: »So, run this past me slowly; is animation cancelling an exploit or is it meant to be there, and have I been unknowingly using it1 -
Animation cancelling has been confirmed by ZOS (Jessica) as not an exploit.GrimMauKin wrote: »So, run this past me slowly; is animation cancelling an exploit or is it meant to be there, and have I been unknowingly using it
I'm sure they say it isn't an exploit as another way of them saying "We have no idea how to fix it, so consider it a feature."Edited by dgoss11b14_ESO on September 15, 2014 7:01PM4 -
jaebdub✭✭✭The same could be applied to staffs as well. I was only using melee as my example. If you go to "shoot" your LA with your staff the same should be applied. I get where everyone is coming from though. If you want to use it have fun, if you dont have fun ^_^
I guess someone should clarify though because IF the melee weapon makes contact sure i get canceling the recovery animation. Same for staff. If you shoot the fireball, frost, healing ball?, etc etc THEN cancel sure I can go along with it. I always thought it was canceling BEFORE contact (melee) or the LA for staves was done and the attack still goes through.
When you animation cancel with a staff you visually see the fireball/resto beam, like I said in my last post. YOU SEE IT. If you don't see the visual then you did not successfully animation cancel.Jagermeister - v14 NB
Alacrity2 -
jaebdub✭✭✭dgoss11b14_ESO wrote: »
Animation cancelling has been confirmed by ZOS (Jessica) as not an exploit.GrimMauKin wrote: »So, run this past me slowly; is animation cancelling an exploit or is it meant to be there, and have I been unknowingly using it
I'm sure the only reason they say it isn't an exploit is another way of them saying "We have no idea how to fix it, so consider it a feature."
Or the fact it isn't a real problem at all and the combat would be dull without it.Jagermeister - v14 NB
Alacrity2 -
Circuitous✭✭✭✭✭dgoss11b14_ESO wrote: »
Animation cancelling has been confirmed by ZOS (Jessica) as not an exploit.GrimMauKin wrote: »So, run this past me slowly; is animation cancelling an exploit or is it meant to be there, and have I been unknowingly using it
I'm sure they say it isn't an exploit as another way of them saying "We have no idea how to fix it, so consider it a feature."
It would be pretty trivial for them to fix. They would just need to give skills cast times to match their animation times (most cast way faster than their animation indicates) and lock out other attacks until the animation completes (which already exists as a system mechanic for other things and could easily be applied here).Ｔｈａｎｋ Ｓｔｅｎｄａｒｒ ｉｔ’ｓ Ｆｒｅｄａｓ．
Elanirne: Altmer Templar Healer, DC
Auria Dolabella: Imperial Nightblade Tank, DC3 -
GrimMauKin✭✭✭✭Looking at how I play I don't think I've been animation cancelling; perhaps I should!I am one of The Great Mediocracy, those whose role in life is to provide the baseline by which The Few deem themselves Great.1 -
bellanca6561n✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's important for folks to feel they're doing more than mashing buttons in a certain order as if they're really fighting. One virtue of this game is that it gives you a greater sense that you are fighting than most in the genre. I find it often delightful.
But to say this is some MMO thing is not entirely accurate nor is it fair to dump on people who crave something more straightforward than the divining the ideal finger dance in the proper order. This notion of MMO combat is fairly recent and applies almost strictly to the fantasy genre.
None of these guys in tights, gals in spandex games are simulations. The first truly massively multiplayer online games with graphics were. Current MMOs model nothing that ever existed, in warfare, fighting, equipment, tactics or history.
They feature magic. Damage can be healed. One player can be orders of magnitude more powerful than another player simply by virtue of having more time on their hands or having endured nearly irrelevant, repetitive tedium of grinding mobs with friends or passersby.
If you want to find something fundamentally wrong with this century's definition of the massively multiplayer game, it's that. Not something called animation cancelling or people who don't like it.1 -
c0rp✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am at work..but i keep hearing that the NB skill Haste actually makes a noticable difference in attk speed now. Has anyone tested it yet? Perhaps this is the reason Agility was changed.Edited by c0rp on September 15, 2014 7:52PMForce weapon swap to have priority over EVERYTHING. Close enough.
Make stamina builds even with magicka builds.
Disable abilities while holding block.
Give us a REASON to do dungeons more than once.
Remove PVP AoE CAP. It is ruining Cyrodiil.
Fix/Remove Forward Camps. They are ruining Cyrodiil.
Impenetrability needs to REDUCE CRIT DAMAGE. Not negate entire builds.
Werewolf is not equal to Vamps/Bats.1 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I agree that the modification of the Agility passive appears to be a tacit acknowledgement to maintain animation canceling.
Just leave animation cancelling the way it is. The whole game balanced is premised upon the presence of animation canceling.
This, it's already been mentioned to have become sort of a part of the game even though they hadn't initially meant to make it so. It's a really basic part of using attacks so much so that I did it without thinking back last year.-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
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-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.2 -
drogon1✭✭✭✭Look, if you cancel an attack animation, then the attack should be canceled. If I am attacking someone with my bow, and they start to cast a spell, then I quickly shoot an interrupt, then only the interrupt should hit - not both the attack and the interrupt. If I'm swinging my axe at someone, then suddenly lift my shield to block, the axe has no business hitting anyone.
I am not sure how other games have dealt with this issue - someone mentions that WoW intro'd the GCD to address it. If this is the most effective solution from a programming point of view then yes I'd think it would be a good thing for the game.
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Selodaoc✭✭✭Im using weaving but its quite rediculous.
If you dont do it, your dps lowers by ALOT.
Its also one of the reasons why stamina weapons are lower dps. Its not as effective to weave with.
Its quite bad when the highest dps is depending on how fast you can weave, rather then actually using you skill rotations.
How many people have stood in a tight group, and thought to himself "i wonder if im weaving enough now"Edited by Selodaoc on September 15, 2014 8:22PM4 -
Aeratus✭✭✭✭✭
That's why you cancel after your axe has landed, but before the animation subsequent to the hit has completed. Essentially, animation cancelling represents a fighter who is able to land more attacks in the same amount of time by not having to go through a recoil motion after landing a hit.Look, if you cancel an attack animation, then the attack should be canceled. If I am attacking someone with my bow, and they start to cast a spell, then I quickly shoot an interrupt, then only the interrupt should hit - not both the attack and the interrupt. If I'm swinging my axe at someone, then suddenly lift my shield to block, the axe has no business hitting anyone.
Interesting, what you've described (canceling a melee move before the hit lands) does have a specific name in other gaming genres. In fighting games, this type of cancelling is called a "kara-cancel" (meaning "empty cancel"), whereas a normal "cancel" is an interrupt after the hit has landed.
In any case, animation cancel is a staple in many games, because it reflects the principle that a game plays more smoothly when your character immediately responds to your input, even if it interrupts an animation. Even single player RPG games like Dragon Age Origins has animation cancelling.Edited by Aeratus on September 15, 2014 8:41PM1 -
NakedSnake✭✭✭Ill just leave this here.
"Brilliant! Why is it that the people with the most ridiculous ideas are always the ones who are most certain of them?"2 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NakedSnake wrote: »Ill just leave this here.
Yep. Other games had NO global cooldown and you were limited by cast times + resource availability in the past. Some like WOW implemented outright global cooldowns, or autoattacks in addition to your ability usage. ESO lets you choose when to use your autoattack and your abilities, each has their own cooldown.
-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.1 -
Heishi✭✭✭✭✭Personally what I'd rather see instead of animation cancelling/weaving, is faster animations that transition well with a 1 attack queue.
Basically have 1 attack follow through (quickly) to completion and while this animation is playing you can queue the next attack which begins immediately following. Onse into second attack queue the third.
By quick I mean the attack animations should be fast enough that queueing should feel natural. Like thinking your next move.And so did many brave men, women, and beast fall to the end of Beta, never to be heard from again. All that is left, is whispers of the adventures they had.2 -
Surfinginhawaii✭✭✭GrimMauKin wrote: »I'm probably being a noob but although I've seen animation cancelling mentioned regularly on here I'm not actually sure what it is (I'm assuming some sort of exploit). I've never knowingly used it but (as above) I've probably frantically clicked the mouse button and hit skills keys simultaneously.
It isn't an exploit as it is explicitly sanctioned by devs. It's when you use a light attack and immediately press a skill key before the attack finishes. Does this repeatedly to in a chain with light attacks and it's considered "weaving". Animations can be canceled with blocks too.
Very good explanation, I was wondering what everyone was referring too.1 -
jaebdub✭✭✭I'll leave this here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sce1q6h-KQg&feature=youtu.be
1:06:00. Watch the ESO dev team animation cancel with light attack/force shock combination.Edited by jaebdub on September 23, 2014 10:56PMJagermeister - v14 NB
Alacrity2 -
Marthenil✭✭✭While using melee attacks, I kinda like animation canceling. Mostly because combat feels much more fluid and action-y.
Like doing combos in a fighting game.
That said, what I'd rather they did, instead of removing it completely, balance the game around it. It could be an avenue for fun combos and abilities.2 -
Natjur✭✭✭✭✭
✭Now if they just remove the global cool down on some skills so we can all animation cancel.1 -
Zheg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭They dropped the ball with this one, but it's too late to do anything at this point. The attack speed mechanic could have opened up tons of builds (if it was an actual attack speed mechanic and not the ridiculous farse it currently is), but unfortunately now it doesn't look like we'll ever get that.1 -
Tyr✭✭✭✭Animation canceling is ridiculous and should be removed. It is gaming a poor combat mechanic to gain an advantage over players that are unaware of it (and most will be). There will always be people who want to win at any cost - they generally make the world suck.
It's impossible not to do it since all move sets have a heirarchy that cancels the animation of a lower priority action.
literally if you're in the middle of a light attack and you block, you are cancelling the animation of the light attack.
this is the inevitable consequence of having activated abilities and active abilities in the combat system.
You would have to eliminate one or the other to remove animation cancelling.
Instead of calling for the removal of animation cancelling you should apreciate how the devs were able to blend the dynamic action of skyrim and hotbar abilities of MMO's.4 -
DarkAedin✭✭✭✭✭see in my mind if you are "canceling" an attack then the first attack being cancelled shouldnt deal damage.... Maybe I am wrong here but if i go to swing a sword but STOP to do something else, then my sword NEVER hit you
*edit for clarification: I understand it is a fantasy game. Still though, the weapon should not hit if you are canceling the attack lol emphasis on CANCEL
this isnt real life, this IS a video game.
you are not canceling the attack, you are lowering the legnth of the animation of the attack.
now in real life, a swordsman with some good experience,would know how to turn his blade and do quick slices, throwing the opponent off by moving a bit faster or changing direction of his swing mid swing.
but once again, THIS IS A VIDEO GAME there are scripts and mechanics that we are thinking about, not just the painted canvas they threw over the whole thing.
this is not real life, and rules of gaming = hitting my attack buttons in a timed sequence and pulling it off makes me a skilled gamer, NOT a hacker or botter or someone who runs effing macros. its disgusting that you (general term for all the blind dumb sheep here) immediately go and scream "cheat" when ur informed of a mechanic that we found AND ARE SHARING THE KNOWLEDGE WITH YOU yet its obviously something that u cant master or dont have the common sense to figure out on ur own.
its disgusting that after about 15 effing threads we are STILL having this discussion. take ur damn heads out of ur tooshies and have a cup of coffee. wake up and start being a bit more open minded to the fact that just like all us elite players, u dont know everything, u need to learn something new every day, and maybe if u STFU u might EFFING LEARN SOMETHING.
ive said this a few times on this forum, and ill say it again, clipping, or animation canceling has been around for over 15 years, since the first PC mmos, and even in some single player games.
this is not the first game to have it, nor will it be the last.
learn how to do it and get over it.
its you who is hindering yourself, not the rest of us, its your choice not to be optimal and clip, not ours, we are just playing the damn game, ur crying about it.2
