Nebthet78 wrote: »

Wow I can't believe this thread has reached 9 pages....

I have to wonder if those who are against a cosmetic option and state it is against lore have actually gone through the vampire questline.

Yes, vampire players are initially bitten by a lower end bloodfiend to get the initial infection, but they are unable to become vampires this way alone. Unless you actually go through the ritual with Lamae Bal. If you don't, after 7 days you loose the initial vampire infection, you remain mortal.

During the ritual, ALL your blood is drained by 4 servants of Lamae, and you are given blood directly from Lamae Bal herself! ("Drink deeply of my Gift") You become HER abomination. This is clearly stated within the quest itsself, more than once.
"Relish this new life I have given you. Feed and grow powerful"

Additionally, it is also stated in the quest, that "Your KIN live among the mortals. They may be wearing rags or crowns. They may hide within or rise above the masses."

This tells me, without a shadow of a doubt that the strain of Vampirism came directly from Lamae Bal, and as such would be considered pure-blooded. This also tells me that since Kin are able to hide themselves among the mortal mass, to even RULE them, they have an ability to appear normal which our player characters don't have.

The other argument I have been seeing against it is for people to play the vampire as it "was intentionally made" by ZOS. In counter to that, I can argue that everyone should then stop whining about this class or that class being OP and every one should be playing the game as intended and all nerfs/buffs should be rolled back to original launch day.

Has any one considered the fact, that perhaps the townspeople are not getting out their pitch forks when your Stage 4 vampire character rolls into town because ZOS assumed an automatic glamour is used by Vampire Players to make them blend in? And our ferocious look is there to indicate to the player when their character needs to feed to be at prime power?

I really don't think ZOS developers considered Roleplayers when they created the vampire visuals. They just considered the actual gameplay and NPC's see all vampire players as normal mortals thereby not interfering with a players ability to advance in the game.

Personally, I see the OP's request to be rather reasonable, and no different than any other paying customer asking for new additions to hair styles, colors, or werewolf players wanting to be able to toggle the change on and off when they want to do it, instead of making the transformation an ultimate.

This is a request that would change appearance only. Not gameplay mechanics and would wear off at Stage 4. It makes the game much more interesting for other players as it gives them another level to what they are experiencing. It actually allows for something to change in the players environment that they can choose to interact with, or not as they are questing. It is also an optional change. Meaning not all players have to use it.

I would very much love to see some additional quests added in for vampire and werewolf players. Something that makes players feel the choice they made to become monsters does in fact have an effect on their game play. As it stands right now, this game completely hand holds players all the way through it. No matter what quests you do, you never really get a sense of accomplishment, of actually changing things in the world you are playing in. This may be different in the PVP area, but as polls have shown, the majority of gamers here don't PVP.

Therefore, I think a quest, like the OP suggested would be a great way to gain this Glamour Skill. Lore itsself states that for the line of Cyrodiil vampires, it was through a bond with Clavicus Vile and through his guidance that their savage cravings was steeled with reason and savvy, and it was through his influence that they were able to live among the mortals and twist them to their purposes.

But seriously, I have seen actual dead bodies with the blood drained. They are not even close to being as white as stage 2. An albino Irishman is about the whitest I have ever seen any one and he was only as white as a Stage 1 ESO vamp in comparison. Yes, yes, I know this a game and not the real world, but Stage 4 vamps in ESO look like running neon signs! For a creature of the night that are suppose to be able to meld in to the shadows, that's gotta be pretty difficult when you glow like a radium bulb.

Some of the arguments I have been seeing against the OP's request just make me shake my head a little. The only real reasons I can see why others don't want this is because they hate the fact there is a vampire/werewolf option in this game (and pretty much every other MMO out there) and they are sick and tired of seeing then in anything; They are angry because they feel Bat Swarm/Devouring Swarm is OP and ZOS hasn't done anything about it yet, so feel those who play Vampire characters shouldn't be given any other options, even though it doesn't affect game mechanics. And lastly because they feel this option will take away any advantage they feel they currently have in PVP for automatically spotting vampire players and killing them from a distance.

And since when did that Twilight crap become the standard/comparison for all vampires? Like seriously? Are too many of you men still upset their girlfriends (if they have one) dragged them to the theatre with her to see that drivel? Some of you need an education in cult classics like Lost Boys, Subspecies, Too Die For, plus the older b&w movies made in other countries, let alone the folklore from around the World.

Frankly, there is no real reason to deny the OP's request. There ARE other players (not just RP's) who would like to see a change. If others can complain and ask for game mechanics to be changed, or for the addition of new hairstyles, make-up etc, then the OP also has every right to ask for something as well. You don't have to agree or like the idea that is being proposed, but if it doesn't affect actual game play mechanics, the only argument you have against it is personal preference.

DagothMacellarius wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

DagothMacellarius wrote: »

Like has been said before, your vampire appearance Doesn't mean anything lore wise in ESO. If it meant something stage 4 would be KoS. If ZoS decides to continue lore breaking and not have city guards KoS us then they should give the face change option to vampires. It is dumb that you can stand in town looking like a zombie/vampire and no Npcs or guards care. So the real solution in my opinion is when crime system launches you either get bounties for being a Vampire/ KoS while in towns or they give vampires the appearance change choices if they decide to not make us targets for death. I think both would be nice but I will sacrifice the option to change appearance if us vampires become the immortal outcasts we are. Like a post I had before, they should make vampire houses like Ravenwatch and the ones in Eastmarch and so on as places for us vampires to repair and do business. All in all I agree on vampires getting appearance choices at the moment because our appearance has pretty much no effect like it should in ES games. If you played oblivion and Skyrim the max stage was kill on sight by guards. They added the non KoS in Dawnguard DLC and changed it to gargoyle form is KoS.

So what do you think of the idea, as requested, that the appearance changes ONLY apply to Stages 1 through 3? Any alteration goes away at Stage 4, the "monster" is revealed and, HOPEFULLY, the upcoming justice system DOES make Stage 4 vampires KOS to city guards? I also hope the justice system will allow vampires to feed on Townie NPCs but, if "caught"/observed by another player, they become flagged for PvP/incur a bounty. There DOES need to be a chance to get away with feeding on Townies but it really does need to be risky. Your thoughts on that?

Ya, sounds interesting. Feeding will probably get you a bounty for sure. I imagine you have to be seen doing it of course. The stage 4 probably wont happen for a long time if ever sadly. Off topic a bit but ZoS is planning on player/guild housing in the future, which would be cool and hopefully that would bring other RP type stuff for players in patches. It would be cool if they added the appearance changes then as well.

LadyShauna wrote: »

I couldn't agree more with the OP, makes such a good argument.
Please consider these options, ZOS. Vampires really need this.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Those who have said that vampires SHOULD be able to look like normal humans or mer are almost invariably shot down by those who say that this "type" of vampirism does not exist in ESO and that vampires CANNOT and SHOULD NOT hide their nature by appearing to look like "normal" folk. Yet the game itself puts the lie to this, as illustrated by the pictures above. The other argument I have seen is that the strain of vampirism that allows a vampire to appear normal does not exist in the era that this particular game is set in. Again, I will point out that the picture above puts the lie to that.

Aoife32001 wrote: »

Sorry if this was already noted, but, again, I'm not reading 10 pages of posts...

MornaBaine wrote: »

Those who have said that vampires SHOULD be able to look like normal humans or mer are almost invariably shot down by those who say that this "type" of vampirism does not exist in ESO and that vampires CANNOT and SHOULD NOT hide their nature by appearing to look like "normal" folk. Yet the game itself puts the lie to this, as illustrated by the pictures above. The other argument I have seen is that the strain of vampirism that allows a vampire to appear normal does not exist in the era that this particular game is set in. Again, I will point out that the picture above puts the lie to that.

All of that is fine and well, but I don't believe (?) there is anything saying that this NPC belongs to the Lamae strand of vampirism?

From UESPWiki:

"Cyrodiil
Only one known tribe exists in Cyrodiil; they are experts of concealment, and their true name has been lost to history. Much like the Imperials, they ousted their competition. Indistinguishable from the living if well-fed, these Cyrodiilic Vampires are cultured and more civilized than vampires of other provinces, using their stealthy abilities to feed on the sleeping and unaware.[4] Calling themselves the Order, these vampires follow the Daedric Prince "Kin-father" Molag Bal, like many other vampires, but they also consider Clavicus Vile their patron. Members are bound never to reveal themselves or the Order, and to procure power, stature, and wealth whenever possible."

"Lamae's Bloodline
Lamae Beolfag was the first of her kind but like her successors, she created a bloodline. Vampires of this particular bloodline have Noxiphilic Sanguivoria rather than Porphyric Hemophilia or Sanguinare Vampiris, as a consequence these Vampires do not burn or weaken in sun but rather become more powerful once night falls, they have their own set of abilities as well some shared by other bloodlines such as invisibility. The spreading of vampirism among this clan is unique as it requires a blood transference between victim and vampire and then a ritual known as the "Rite of Scion" in which Lamae herself appears and finishes the process. The exact name of this bloodline is unknown but they were extremely common in the second era and were not limited to any particular areas as they could be encountered nearly all over Tamriel."

Players in ESO clearly belong to Lamae's bloodline (hence the quest). The NPC above clearly could be from a different bloodline. Whether or not the Cyrodiilic line exists in the First Era, it is perfectly plausible that another strain of vampirism does exist that is very similar to it. This is irrelevant, however, because it is unequivocally-clear that all players in ESO who become vampires are of the Lamae strain and, hence, must deal with the appearance that comes with this strain.

MornaBaine wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

DagothMacellarius wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

DagothMacellarius wrote: »

Like has been said before, your vampire appearance Doesn't mean anything lore wise in ESO. If it meant something stage 4 would be KoS. If ZoS decides to continue lore breaking and not have city guards KoS us then they should give the face change option to vampires. It is dumb that you can stand in town looking like a zombie/vampire and no Npcs or guards care. So the real solution in my opinion is when crime system launches you either get bounties for being a Vampire/ KoS while in towns or they give vampires the appearance change choices if they decide to not make us targets for death. I think both would be nice but I will sacrifice the option to change appearance if us vampires become the immortal outcasts we are. Like a post I had before, they should make vampire houses like Ravenwatch and the ones in Eastmarch and so on as places for us vampires to repair and do business. All in all I agree on vampires getting appearance choices at the moment because our appearance has pretty much no effect like it should in ES games. If you played oblivion and Skyrim the max stage was kill on sight by guards. They added the non KoS in Dawnguard DLC and changed it to gargoyle form is KoS.

So what do you think of the idea, as requested, that the appearance changes ONLY apply to Stages 1 through 3? Any alteration goes away at Stage 4, the "monster" is revealed and, HOPEFULLY, the upcoming justice system DOES make Stage 4 vampires KOS to city guards? I also hope the justice system will allow vampires to feed on Townie NPCs but, if "caught"/observed by another player, they become flagged for PvP/incur a bounty. There DOES need to be a chance to get away with feeding on Townies but it really does need to be risky. Your thoughts on that?

Ya, sounds interesting. Feeding will probably get you a bounty for sure. I imagine you have to be seen doing it of course. The stage 4 probably wont happen for a long time if ever sadly. Off topic a bit but ZoS is planning on player/guild housing in the future, which would be cool and hopefully that would bring other RP type stuff for players in patches. It would be cool if they added the appearance changes then as well.

Agreed. And believe me, I'm willing to be patient for this stuff. I'd rather wait and have it be done well than be rushed and half-arsed. I hope you're wrong about Stage 4 town guard KOS being really far off though. I REALLY hope it is part of the justice system. Although patient, I'm kinda tired already of NOT being recognized as a vampire by ANY NPCs! LOL

Oh and I would also be perfectly happy if spellcrafting offered illusion spells for vampires. Yep, I'd spend skill points for them!

lol what a dumb idea. Stage 4 making players KOS. More punishment for those of us who pvp and need to be stage 4. Heck, I don't even get a chance to feed during pvp even if I wanted to.

I'm sure this would be great if you are an rper, but for the rest of us to function, it would suck. I don't spend all day chilling around npcs to be able to feed every what? every couple of hours? Besides the bonuses to stage 4 in general being the entire reason to be a vamp for those of us not pretending we are in an anne rice novel,

Dawnguard gives precedence to not being KOS, if you desperately need justification for your lore/rp.

No one is suggesting this be the case in Cyrodil. Rather, in the towns all over the REST of the game, this should be the norm. Unless vampire friendly outposts were added to Cyrodil I can see how this would put vampire PvPers at a fairly significant disadvantage, especially if you couldn't even buy siege equipment from the vendors in your faction. While I'm sure some players would LOVE to see that burden placed on the despised vampires in Cyrodil, that is NOT actually the purpose of the suggestion. During the rare times you may need to come in to a town in a PvE area you'll just have to take the time and trouble to snack on a few NPCs before you hit the city gates. It's not hard, I do it constantly and am rarely out of Stage 2.

MornaBaine wrote: »

This is Lamae from the vampire quest. LOOK at her. She ALSO pretty clearly has the ability to NOT look like a disease ravaged vampire. Now the argument has run that she is an actual Daughter of Cold Harbor and therefore has this ability whereas her "children" are somehow inferior (perhaps because their transformation was triggered by bloodfiends) and therefore do not. We also can't float in the air which is also a drag. LOL But it seems odd to me that she would fail to gift her brood with this particular camouflage which would be absolutely vital to their success and longevity. She was certainly ABLE to give it to the Cyrodilic vamps she created. IF my original suggestion is ultimately implemented at some point, it would simply be assumed that this is exactly what she did. If one of my latter two suggestions are implemented then this is explained as simply being a magical illusion crafty vampires have come up with in order to survive. NEITHER breaks with lore.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

This is Lamae from the vampire quest. LOOK at her. She ALSO pretty clearly has the ability to NOT look like a disease ravaged vampire. Now the argument has run that she is an actual Daughter of Cold Harbor and therefore has this ability whereas her "children" are somehow inferior (perhaps because their transformation was triggered by bloodfiends) and therefore do not. We also can't float in the air which is also a drag. LOL But it seems odd to me that she would fail to gift her brood with this particular camouflage which would be absolutely vital to their success and longevity. She was certainly ABLE to give it to the Cyrodilic vamps she created. IF my original suggestion is ultimately implemented at some point, it would simply be assumed that this is exactly what she did. If one of my latter two suggestions are implemented then this is explained as simply being a magical illusion crafty vampires have come up with in order to survive. NEITHER breaks with lore.

It's not that it's lore breaking, it's not really. It's that you can't have your cake and eat it too (though why that is I don't know, what a terrible analogy, if I have cake I certainly want to eat it.) If you want the many advantages of being a vamp, you must at least deal with being ugly as all hell.

Personally, I wear breton cloth head armor, I hate my appearance, but I am fine with it being a drawback to vampirism.

As for RP'rs, they don't seem to understand that part of RP is running with the flaws and limitations of your character as well. That's part of what fleshes the character out. A legit RP'r takes that downside and makes it part of the story.

MornaBaine wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

This is Lamae from the vampire quest. LOOK at her. She ALSO pretty clearly has the ability to NOT look like a disease ravaged vampire. Now the argument has run that she is an actual Daughter of Cold Harbor and therefore has this ability whereas her "children" are somehow inferior (perhaps because their transformation was triggered by bloodfiends) and therefore do not. We also can't float in the air which is also a drag. LOL But it seems odd to me that she would fail to gift her brood with this particular camouflage which would be absolutely vital to their success and longevity. She was certainly ABLE to give it to the Cyrodilic vamps she created. IF my original suggestion is ultimately implemented at some point, it would simply be assumed that this is exactly what she did. If one of my latter two suggestions are implemented then this is explained as simply being a magical illusion crafty vampires have come up with in order to survive. NEITHER breaks with lore.

It's not that it's lore breaking, it's not really. It's that you can't have your cake and eat it too (though why that is I don't know, what a terrible analogy, if I have cake I certainly want to eat it.) If you want the many advantages of being a vamp, you must at least deal with being ugly as all hell.

Personally, I wear breton cloth head armor, I hate my appearance, but I am fine with it being a drawback to vampirism.

As for RP'rs, they don't seem to understand that part of RP is running with the flaws and limitations of your character as well. That's part of what fleshes the character out. A legit RP'r takes that downside and makes it part of the story.

Wait.... you're the same guy who is crying huge tears over the very idea that IF you DC while queuing for Cyrodil you might end up back at a wayshire where an NPC guard MIGHT see and attack you? ROFL! You will no longer be taken seriously. Thanks for playing though.

Also, though it has been mentioned here, this thread is not about whether vamps should be KOS to guards at Stage 4. Just wanted to clear that up. But I WILL be making a new thread regarding that and you are welcome to present your case there.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

This is Lamae from the vampire quest. LOOK at her. She ALSO pretty clearly has the ability to NOT look like a disease ravaged vampire. Now the argument has run that she is an actual Daughter of Cold Harbor and therefore has this ability whereas her "children" are somehow inferior (perhaps because their transformation was triggered by bloodfiends) and therefore do not. We also can't float in the air which is also a drag. LOL But it seems odd to me that she would fail to gift her brood with this particular camouflage which would be absolutely vital to their success and longevity. She was certainly ABLE to give it to the Cyrodilic vamps she created. IF my original suggestion is ultimately implemented at some point, it would simply be assumed that this is exactly what she did. If one of my latter two suggestions are implemented then this is explained as simply being a magical illusion crafty vampires have come up with in order to survive. NEITHER breaks with lore.

It's not that it's lore breaking, it's not really. It's that you can't have your cake and eat it too (though why that is I don't know, what a terrible analogy, if I have cake I certainly want to eat it.) If you want the many advantages of being a vamp, you must at least deal with being ugly as all hell.

Personally, I wear breton cloth head armor, I hate my appearance, but I am fine with it being a drawback to vampirism.

As for RP'rs, they don't seem to understand that part of RP is running with the flaws and limitations of your character as well. That's part of what fleshes the character out. A legit RP'r takes that downside and makes it part of the story.

Wait.... you're the same guy who is crying huge tears over the very idea that IF you DC while queuing for Cyrodil you might end up back at a wayshire where an NPC guard MIGHT see and attack you? ROFL! You will no longer be taken seriously. Thanks for playing though.

Also, though it has been mentioned here, this thread is not about whether vamps should be KOS to guards at Stage 4. Just wanted to clear that up. But I WILL be making a new thread regarding that and you are welcome to present your case there.

/yawn, one random dude doesn't take me seriously, my life is completely out of whack now.


My point is, I like the downsides as they stand. A KOS at stage 4 downside is prohibitive. Looking ugly as sin is not. They are very different. One is cosmetic, one is a genuine issue.

You may not be aware, but there are already somewhat prohibitive downsides to vampire, such as crap for health regen and siege weapons absolutely destroying you. These are good, and I wouldn't even say that batswarm could be nerfed a bit and the downsides still wouldn't be over the top.

But constantly being forced to feed just to be able to get things accomplished, that is prohibitive.

Did I make that simple enough for you to understand?

Whisper292 wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

No, I'm just biased toward vampires. I think they gain enough benefit and find it difficult enough to identify them in the heat of combat. I could care less about tattoos and hairstyles.

Besides I really do get off on seeing the pampered vampire community in ZOS frustrated over something.

MercyKilling wrote: »

Furthermore....your wanting a change to vampire appearances DOES affect me. I get no end of pleasure seeing people run around pale and ugly as a price they pay for contracting a disease.

You want to take that pleasure away from me.

How can you guys say stuff like that and believe it's anywhere near a valid argument against the OP's request? Or do you not even care at this point and are just trying to push her buttons?

eNumbra wrote: »

Role-players like you are not a substantial piece of market share.

You wouldn't have stats to back that up, would you? It seems to me that roleplayers do represent a substantial piece of the market share. Go into any inn during the evening, and you'll most likely find a group of roleplayers. There is a huge RP subculture in ESO. I'm not saying we represent the majority of players by any means, but we are a big enough group that we should be heard.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

No its not balancing, your appearance is penance for the skills.

Okay, this may be nitpicking, but your sentence really doesn't make any sense. You don't do penance for being given something. You do penance for committing a sin, and choosing a certain type of character in an MMO is hardly a sin.

Whisper292 wrote: »

You wouldn't have stats to back that up, would you? It seems to me that roleplayers do represent a substantial piece of the market share. Go into any inn during the evening, and you'll most likely find a group of roleplayers. There is a huge RP subculture in ESO. I'm not saying we represent the majority of players by any means, but we are a big enough group that we should be heard.

MornaBaine wrote: »

In fact, it is all easily explained BY lore.

MornaBaine wrote: »

I suppose all the emotes we got in the last update were asked for by PvPers. Uh huh, sure. The fact is that even though we are very likely the minority of players, we make up a significant ENOUGH segment of the player base that ZoS doesn't just disregard us outright. Good on them.