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Options for Vampire Appearance
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MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jelliedsoup wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »jelliedsoup wrote: »FreedomDude wrote: »Why are people so zealous about the way other characters look?
If someone wants their Vampire to have a non-Vampiric appearance out of combat while meeting certain conditions, how does that affect anyone else?
Elves should look this way, Vampires should look this way! No! A person's character should look the way the player wants them to!
If I'm a Dunmer I should look like a Dunmer...
You mean there's a price to pay for the extra skills vamps get? Inconceivable.
If you take their skills away I would have no issue with it.
The point is that there IS NO price being paid by the appearance vampires have. It affects mechanics not at all. It is strictly a matter of personal player preference. It doesn't have any affect on what vampires can and cannot do. It's strictly cosmetic. Not many people liked the dull armor colors that were prevalent and were very happy to get the Dyes even if they didn't roleplay. It's the exact same thing here.
If there's no price to pay, why are we having this conversation?
Excellent question. The way vampires look has no adverse impact on their mechanics. They could advance through all the stages looking exactly the same with absolutely no effect on the shifting stats the various stages confer. Since this is the case I simply do not understand why people like yourself keep insisting that this minor cosmetics issue is some sort of "balancing" when it is nothing of the sort. So I really don't understand why we're having this conversation either since there's absolutely nothing to object about in my request.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!2 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »jelliedsoup wrote: »FreedomDude wrote: »Why are people so zealous about the way other characters look?
If someone wants their Vampire to have a non-Vampiric appearance out of combat while meeting certain conditions, how does that affect anyone else?
Elves should look this way, Vampires should look this way! No! A person's character should look the way the player wants them to!
If I'm a Dunmer I should look like a Dunmer...
You mean there's a price to pay for the extra skills vamps get? Inconceivable.
If you take their skills away I would have no issue with it.
The point is that there IS NO price being paid by the appearance vampires have. It affects mechanics not at all. It is strictly a matter of personal player preference. It doesn't have any affect on what vampires can and cannot do. It's strictly cosmetic. Not many people liked the dull armor colors that were prevalent and were very happy to get the Dyes even if they didn't roleplay. It's the exact same thing here.
It seems to me that the same argument - that it is only cosmetic - could be applied were one to ask for a High Elf that looked like a Tolkien High Elf. They might, to some people's eyes, look much nicer, and it wouldn't affect the game mechanics at all. I'd be very sympathetic towards your desire. Unfortunately if I were a developer I nonetheless wouldn't allow it as it goes contrary to this context or setting.
It seems to me that one faces a choice: either stick to the setting and maintain continuity, or say, what the heck, it's only appearances, anything goes. In which case, bring on dwemer (just one managed to survive), snow elves (ditto) or space goats...
But what I am asking for does not, in fact, go against ESO lore and does not bring in a completely different art concept from a completely different source as your Tolkien Elf example does. There's no reason why things that do not completely fly in the face of lore cannot be brought in.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!2 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »Not one person who opposes this, especially yourself, has been able to put forth a single reason why it SHOULDN'T be done. It is not lore breaking.
It IS lore-breaking, and I've explained exactly why. You just continue to ignore those reasons to suit your purposes. You are not Ravenwatch. You are not a pureblood vamp. You were not turned by Molag Bal. You do not have the ability to mask your appearance outside of wearing a disguise. It's really very simple.
You don't get to simply ignore valid reasons and then say "nobody's put forth any reasons". At this point, there's not even much point in discussing anything w/ you, as you will just ignore anything that doesn't benefit your "side" of the discussion.MornaBaine wrote: »So really the only people who DO have a problem are those, like yourself, who keep screaming, "Just because I don't like it!" Sorry, not good enough.
Just... SO much irony.
Alright my dear, I'm finally getting around to you. Sorry I've made you feel so left out. Ultimately, my refutation of your reasons comes down to, "Because roleplay." Roleplay, by necessity, requires us to either ignore or alter MANY things presented by the game as game mechanics. It would be ludicrous in the extreme for every single roleplayer to have every single one of their characters go about proclaiming that Manimarco stole their soul and they woke up in Coldharbor and met Lyris, etc, etc, etc, until they ultimately defeated Molag Bal with the legendary Companions. Face it, that would just be stupid from any kind of stroytelling perspective. But according to the game itself, that's EXACTLY what happens and the impossibility of every single person you meet (with the exception of NPCs) is "the Chosen One." ONE. So we ignore and/or alter the vast majority of it. Because to do anything else would simply be ridiculous. It's the same thing when it comes to vampires. According to the game mechanics you are either mauled by bloodfiends and infected, or taken to the shrine and infected by another player and then, either way, you must undergo a quest wherein you meet Lamae who, for whatever reasons, fails to give you the ability of concealment she herself has and has passed on to the Cyrodillic vampires that you, despite being made at least in part, by her, are NOT part of. The very richness of the existing lore surrounding vampires in ESO is going to cause the vast majority of vampire roleplayers to ignore this unfortunate game mechanic in favor of a story that is more appealing to them. Sadly, a lot of these stories will be ridiculous and some of them will even have no connection to ESO at all. And just like all the cookie-cutter builds you see dominating PvP in Cyrodil are boring and unimaginative, I wish it weren't so. So, because of roleplay, and because due to it we are not actually locked into the narrative presented by the game mechanics, it is a GOOD thing to give roleplayers options that let them pay the way they wish and enhance their enjoyment of the game so that... we keep paying that monthly sub. Things that EXPAND roleplay, rather than diminish it (as the current mechanics of vampires do) are good things. And, as cosmetics do nothing to affect game mechanics and do nothing to diminish the enjoyment of other players, it is logical to include them as the game matures.
Now, there are many players who hate roleplayers and wish we wouldn't even play these games. The idiocy of that stance is not something I will discuss here. I will instead confine myself to pointing out that roleplayers are good for ZoS for a whole host of reasons. We tend to be loyal subscribers who remain engaged with the game FAR longer than regular players. As long as our characters are engaged in interesting storylines and we're having fun with other players we'll stick around. We generally are not clamoring for new content because, since we take time out to roleplay, we actually explore the game itself at a far slower and more leisurely pace. Ergo, we don't get bored as quickly and drop our subs to go off in pursuit of the next shiny. We tend to be a lot more patient about fixing issues as well. Lag making PvP impossible at the moment? Well that sucks, true, but hey, we can go roleplay until they fix it. Nor are we constantly clamoring for the next new big update, new zones, new classes, etc. Sure, we like those things. But our requests tend to be a WHOLE LOT EASIER for the Devs to pull off. Like, some new hairstyles and make-up options. New emotes which are, in fact, already existing animations in the game that they simply make available to players. Or, gosh, simply making some simple alterations to the already existing cosmetics of vampires and adding the already existing cosmetic of a "normal" appearance.
There. I hope you don't feel so left out now.
Darlin, I am almost certain I've been roleplaying for far longer than you. I understand where you're coming from, and I honestly don't need you to try to explain to me the RP mentality.
However, I've already addressed your "Because roleplay" reasoning. You can roleplay whatever you like, but that doesn't mean that devs should add lorebreaking changes to the game just to suit your roleplay.
Lamae isn't the one who turns you into a vamp, a random Blood Fiend did. Lamae only initiates you into your new life as a vamp, and completes the ritual. That's why she "fails to give you the ritual of concealment", because it's not a ritual, it's a part of her bloodline, of which you are obviously NOT a part of, or you would have it.
This is very clear in-game because you have a completely different strain of vampirism than the one that she is the progenitor of.
Cosmetics such as this do effect the game's atmosphere, because it goes against established lore and discredits the fidelity of the ES universe.
I'm not sure if you just aren't understanding that what you're asking for goes against the lore of the ES universe, or you simply don't care. I'm leaning toward the latter, since I don't know how much more clearly I can show you that the entire OP is based on a complete fallacy.
Ravenwatch = Pureblood vamp = can mask appearance, presumably.
You = Noxiphilic Sanguivoria = disease-made vamp = no masking appearance
There is only ONE (1) strain of vampiric disease that allows for vamps to change their appearance, and that is NOT the type of vamp that player characters get to be.
Ask for something that is actually possible w/in the realm of lore, and I would be more inclined to agree w/ you. As it is, I've made it perfectly clear that what you're asking for is not.
At this point, you are just asking for it because you want it, not because it makes a lick of sense in the ES universe. When devs start caving to requests that don't make any sense whatsoever in lore, then people stop caring about the established lore altogether, and THAT hurts RP moreso than not being able to be a pretty vamp.
Might as well just say that you are vampire Talos the Dragonborn who shapeshifts into a Ferrari Testarosa to fight off the neighboring clan of Rivenspire Godzillas. It has just as much basis in lore as what you're asking for right now.
/shrug
Sigh. You make me weary. What YOU are saying is that lore is ONLY what is presented in THIS version of the game. I'll grant that there is some validity to that view but there is just as large a fan base that is of the mind that all previous ES lore is also applicable lore for this game. Now, being of the latter school of thought, I would be happiest IF they brought in Cyrodilic vampirism and the other strains as well. I would be delighted if our evil characters could go on a quest to sacrifice the requisite number of innocents to Molag Bal in order to become a Daughter of Coldharbor, too. Alas, the odds against ZoS DOING this are astronomically high. So, failing that, I have made the much more likely to be successful request that ZoS consider allowing for some variation in the cosmetic appearance of vampires so that we can at least roleplay with a more interesting variation among vampires and their strains.
I suppose I can sympathize with the fact that apparently seeing "pretty" vampires (or vampires you wouldn't even KNOW were vampires) would bring you some sort of psychological distress. However, I have learned to live with constantly seeing names with scatological references along with winners like xxxImSexyxxx. And it doesn't cause me to gnash my teeth in furious frustration or to lose any sleep at night. It simply let's me know which people to avoid. You could shun the pretty vampires and I'm pretty sure your life would go on just fine.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!4 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WraithAzraiel wrote: »MercyKilling wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »Wrong again. My arguments are based upon reasonable customer service requests of a company I pay a decent amount of money to in order that they entertain me.
So your 14.99 a month is worth more than mine or anyone else who is against this preference of yours? I think not.
How the hell did you get THAT out of the quoted statement? Anyone has the right to make a request. The fact that they HAVE made said request, in no way, shape, or form, denotes their payment to be superior to your own.
BUT just for the sake of argument and to make sense of your wildly unnecessary accusation.
If they happen to pay their subscriptions in 3 to 6 month increments, then no, they actually pay less per month than you do.
Stop picking fights, for the sake of arguing on the internet. It's unnecessary.
He gets that from the poster's assertion people here have no right to lobby against what "she" wants ZoS to do since she is a paying customer. The notion that their preferences and arguments supersede theirs because in her mind there is no logical reason to oppose her demands...THAT's HOW.
Really..who's picking fights? The poster made an absolutely valid and logical observation based on the OP's posts.
No, I did not say that no one has a right to disagree with me because I am a paying customer. What I HAVE said is that they have no REASON to object to my proposal because it does not affect them. If you're going to try to use my own words against me... try to get those words right. Thank you.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!2 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
You mean Second Life?MornaBaine wrote: »The company that is smart enough to design a game FOR us is going to be sitting on a gold mine.
Second Life is a terrible game with outdated graphics. It also does not have quests and combat. It is a "life simulation" game, not an RPG. Nice try, thanks for playing.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!0 -
eNumbra✭✭✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »
Second Life is a terrible game with outdated graphics. It also does not have quests and combat. It is a "life simulation" game, not an RPG. Nice try, thanks for playing.
It is however a game designed for role-players. Stop making excuses.0 -
JamilaRaj✭✭✭✭✭
✭MornaBaine wrote: »DID YOU READ THE OP?????? Because I know I've stated numerous times that ANY of the potential methods of altering a vampire's looks WOULD BE OPTIONAL! So those who LIKE the bestial and monstrous looks are at perfect liberty to KEEP THEM. I just... wow... /facepalm. That's all I got.
To optionally pick passive or use potion does not imply, neither you explicitly say, that it only changes how bloodsucker appears to controlling player, and not to other players. On the contrary, you reject mod precisely because appearance would not be universal. Therefore you want your view to be force fed to others.
I ALSO THINK YOU HAVE BROKEN CAPS LOCK.
!!!1 -
Morduil✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »jelliedsoup wrote: »FreedomDude wrote: »Why are people so zealous about the way other characters look?
If someone wants their Vampire to have a non-Vampiric appearance out of combat while meeting certain conditions, how does that affect anyone else?
Elves should look this way, Vampires should look this way! No! A person's character should look the way the player wants them to!
If I'm a Dunmer I should look like a Dunmer...
You mean there's a price to pay for the extra skills vamps get? Inconceivable.
If you take their skills away I would have no issue with it.
The point is that there IS NO price being paid by the appearance vampires have. It affects mechanics not at all. It is strictly a matter of personal player preference. It doesn't have any affect on what vampires can and cannot do. It's strictly cosmetic. Not many people liked the dull armor colors that were prevalent and were very happy to get the Dyes even if they didn't roleplay. It's the exact same thing here.
It seems to me that the same argument - that it is only cosmetic - could be applied were one to ask for a High Elf that looked like a Tolkien High Elf. They might, to some people's eyes, look much nicer, and it wouldn't affect the game mechanics at all. I'd be very sympathetic towards your desire. Unfortunately if I were a developer I nonetheless wouldn't allow it as it goes contrary to this context or setting.
It seems to me that one faces a choice: either stick to the setting and maintain continuity, or say, what the heck, it's only appearances, anything goes. In which case, bring on dwemer (just one managed to survive), snow elves (ditto) or space goats...
But what I am asking for does not, in fact, go against ESO lore and does not bring in a completely different art concept from a completely different source as your Tolkien Elf example does. There's no reason why things that do not completely fly in the face of lore cannot be brought in.
But it's been endlessly shown here that what you are asking for does go against the lore.
Re. the completely different art concept, that was merely to demonstrate the flaw in the arguments of 'only cosmetic' and that 'that which harms no-one should, of course be allowed'.
It seems to me that what you want is not what the developers have dictated in terms of lore. Unfortunately that lore does not fit your own preconceptions. You therefore wish that they would change that lore to suit your own desire. That is a perfectly valid request. Many might not want that change made, but to my mind they shouldn't reasonably deny your right to ask for it, in the same way that there is no reason any request - not just yours - has any particular right to be granted.
However, I do find that trying to dress up personal wants as anything much more lofty than that usually results in a circular argument doomed to repeated, albeit clearly unwanted, refutation.0 -
Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭MornaBaine wrote: »
He gets that from the poster's assertion people here have no right to lobby against what "she" wants ZoS to do since she is a paying customer. The notion that their preferences and arguments supersede theirs because in her mind there is no logical reason to oppose her demands...THAT's HOW.
Really..who's picking fights? The poster made an absolutely valid and logical observation based on the OP's posts.
No, I did not say that no one has a right to disagree with me because I am a paying customer. What I HAVE said is that they have no REASON to object to my proposal because it does not affect them. If you're going to try to use my own words against me... try to get those words right. Thank you.
Lets revisit your words...MornaBaine wrote: »It's late and I'm tired so I'll try to keep this simple. I look at this particular issue the same way I look at gay marriage, though please don't imagine I give it the same level of importance. Far from it. But the point is, if 2 men or 2 women (or a group of a dozen for that matter!) want to get married, their doing so does not affect MY marriage in any way. Not even one little bit. So I have absolutely ZERO reason to deny them the right to marry. Since what my vampire looks like does not affect anyone but ME one little bit, should ZoS decide to grant me the right to have it my way, my fellow players have no right to deny me, lobby against me, or tell the government/ZoS that they better not allow me that right. It really is just that simple.
Read it again....You said they have "No Right to ..Lobby" against you. If you are saying you "misspoke" then sobeit, but there is a big difference between having "no reason' to do something and "no right." To be fair you do use both in this response, but I can absolutely understand how it was interpreted and the relation to this another player posted about.
Let me say, and I truly believe this. You have every right to want this thing you want and I support your right to pursue it wholeheartedly. I do not agree with or approve of your M.O. when met with disagreement. This is lending less to the idea and more and more criticism of you and the "process." I hope this can get back on track.
I believe acknowledgement that reasonable people can "agree to disagree" would go a long way to doing that. Without which I see this thread getting locked sooner rather than later...just sayin.Edited by Vizier on September 14, 2014 10:56PM2 -
Teiji✭✭✭✭✭This is a poor representation of the delightful community within this game.
As none of us posting here are game developers for this game, I thought we'd be understanding of discussing an idea, a concept, one which only developers themselves would implement if they desired to, not one that we would implement by snapping our fingers exactly how its portrayed within this thread. As this is not a discussion thread, It's a "lets have this exactly how this is, lets not have a constructive discussion where we don't go on about our hates, likes and dislikes." thinking about it rationally, It's perhaps because this is in the general discussion where this is considered on-topic and so on.
As this is supposed to be a place for discussion of an idea, potential changes and so on that other community members would put forth their insight in order to engage in stimulating conversation.
It's now blatantly obvious that many participants care more for their own psychological, social and emotional security, rather than humbly conversing on an idea within a game we all enjoy.
Moving on
I think there's loads of stuff in this game universe to take data from, as well as our own imaginations and memories from in-game data in order to brainstorm the many different avenues such an idea could mechanically make sense and so on, as discussions usually go, develop and organically grow.
I.E, different schools of magic, quest rewards in future content as a development from vampirism, less of the "welcome to the club, go out and get more club members!" more of the "you're a great club member, here's some benefits as a way of saying thanks for being part of our club.", which obviously would only ever be in the far distance future, if ever, but yes, It seems general discussion is not the right place for this thread, I honestly didn't even think. Likely due to my lack of experience in this places we call internet forums.Edited by Teiji on September 14, 2014 11:48PM"Serving Boethiah is Freedom, embracing heroism is Liberty, existing solely for noxiphilic sanguivoria is truth." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
European megaserver Fallout 4
Loyalist of Boethiah, heroism enthusiast, exposer of secrets, bless'ed of noxiphilic sanguivoria.
Nerf one grind, two more take its place; hail Gryndra!
I am a dank memer and satire enthusiast1 -
Two-Dogs✭✭✭As an outside reader, from this thread, after 9 pages, I have gathered:
- some folks want something and cite lore as their justification.
- some folks point out that, according to lore, there is no justifcation.
- cue many, many posts that can be summarised as, 'no you're wrong and I'm right because.....'
As of now, Vampirism, within ESO, is what it is - like it or lump it. We can squeal and whine toll the cows come home to dine but really, it won't make a difference. There are many, many things that require attention first and when they're done - sure, lets add all the options we can, balance them perfectly and all play along nicely.
In the meantime, we can RP around it - it's cheaper, doesn't detract from more important development and heck, we have imaginations, right?0 -
GreyPilgrim✭✭✭With 9 pages of comments I'm sure this has already been stated but...
yeah, the cosmetic difference actually is semi important in PvP, where vamps are somewhat OP, so being able to identify them on the battlefield can be key to tactics. Do many where helmets or disguises that mask this? Well, yeah, but I think costumes in PvP is another issue ZOS ought to re-consider.
So, until Vamp OP is addressed, no, I don't want changes that make them harder to spot.
(And I play a Vamp, and agree that they are ugly, and I still think this shouldn't change.)2 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »DID YOU READ THE OP?????? Because I know I've stated numerous times that ANY of the potential methods of altering a vampire's looks WOULD BE OPTIONAL! So those who LIKE the bestial and monstrous looks are at perfect liberty to KEEP THEM. I just... wow... /facepalm. That's all I got.
To optionally pick passive or use potion does not imply, neither you explicitly say, that it only changes how bloodsucker appears to controlling player, and not to other players. On the contrary, you reject mod precisely because appearance would not be universal. Therefore you want your view to be force fed to others.
I ALSO THINK YOU HAVE BROKEN CAPS LOCK.
!!!
You do realize you're being completely nonsensical, right? I knew when they made the dye system available my eyes would be "offended" by the terrible color choices that some people would make. Yet never for a moment did it occur to me to protest against the inclusion of the dye system because some people would make choices with it that I would not like. I do NOT have the right to say you can't have a Templar in lavender and violet plate armor. Same principle.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!2 -
Nebthet78✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wow I can't believe this thread has reached 9 pages....
I have to wonder if those who are against a cosmetic option and state it is against lore have actually gone through the vampire questline.
Yes, vampire players are initially bitten by a lower end bloodfiend to get the initial infection, but they are unable to become vampires this way alone. Unless you actually go through the ritual with Lamae Bal. If you don't, after 7 days you loose the initial vampire infection, you remain mortal.
During the ritual, ALL your blood is drained by 4 servants of Lamae, and you are given blood directly from Lamae Bal herself! ("Drink deeply of my Gift") You become HER abomination. This is clearly stated within the quest itsself, more than once.
"Relish this new life I have given you. Feed and grow powerful"
Additionally, it is also stated in the quest, that "Your KIN live among the mortals. They may be wearing rags or crowns. They may hide within or rise above the masses."
This tells me, without a shadow of a doubt that the strain of Vampirism came directly from Lamae Bal, and as such would be considered pure-blooded. This also tells me that since Kin are able to hide themselves among the mortal mass, to even RULE them, they have an ability to appear normal which our player characters don't have.
The other argument I have been seeing against it is for people to play the vampire as it "was intentionally made" by ZOS. In counter to that, I can argue that everyone should then stop whining about this class or that class being OP and every one should be playing the game as intended and all nerfs/buffs should be rolled back to original launch day.
Has any one considered the fact, that perhaps the townspeople are not getting out their pitch forks when your Stage 4 vampire character rolls into town because ZOS assumed an automatic glamour is used by Vampire Players to make them blend in? And our ferocious look is there to indicate to the player when their character needs to feed to be at prime power?
I really don't think ZOS developers considered Roleplayers when they created the vampire visuals. They just considered the actual gameplay and NPC's see all vampire players as normal mortals thereby not interfering with a players ability to advance in the game.
Personally, I see the OP's request to be rather reasonable, and no different than any other paying customer asking for new additions to hair styles, colors, or werewolf players wanting to be able to toggle the change on and off when they want to do it, instead of making the transformation an ultimate.
This is a request that would change appearance only. Not gameplay mechanics and would wear off at Stage 4. It makes the game much more interesting for other players as it gives them another level to what they are experiencing. It actually allows for something to change in the players environment that they can choose to interact with, or not as they are questing. It is also an optional change. Meaning not all players have to use it.
I would very much love to see some additional quests added in for vampire and werewolf players. Something that makes players feel the choice they made to become monsters does in fact have an effect on their game play. As it stands right now, this game completely hand holds players all the way through it. No matter what quests you do, you never really get a sense of accomplishment, of actually changing things in the world you are playing in. This may be different in the PVP area, but as polls have shown, the majority of gamers here don't PVP.
Therefore, I think a quest, like the OP suggested would be a great way to gain this Glamour Skill. Lore itsself states that for the line of Cyrodiil vampires, it was through a bond with Clavicus Vile and through his guidance that their savage cravings was steeled with reason and savvy, and it was through his influence that they were able to live among the mortals and twist them to their purposes.
But seriously, I have seen actual dead bodies with the blood drained. They are not even close to being as white as stage 2. An albino Irishman is about the whitest I have ever seen any one and he was only as white as a Stage 1 ESO vamp in comparison. Yes, yes, I know this a game and not the real world, but Stage 4 vamps in ESO look like running neon signs! For a creature of the night that are suppose to be able to meld in to the shadows, that's gotta be pretty difficult when you glow like a radium bulb.
Some of the arguments I have been seeing against the OP's request just make me shake my head a little. The only real reasons I can see why others don't want this is because they hate the fact there is a vampire/werewolf option in this game (and pretty much every other MMO out there) and they are sick and tired of seeing then in anything; They are angry because they feel Bat Swarm/Devouring Swarm is OP and ZOS hasn't done anything about it yet, so feel those who play Vampire characters shouldn't be given any other options, even though it doesn't affect game mechanics. And lastly because they feel this option will take away any advantage they feel they currently have in PVP for automatically spotting vampire players and killing them from a distance.
And since when did that Twilight crap become the standard/comparison for all vampires? Like seriously? Are too many of you men still upset their girlfriends (if they have one) dragged them to the theatre with her to see that drivel? Some of you need an education in cult classics like Lost Boys, Subspecies, Too Die For, plus the older b&w movies made in other countries, let alone the folklore from around the World.
Frankly, there is no real reason to deny the OP's request. There ARE other players (not just RP's) who would like to see a change. If others can complain and ask for game mechanics to be changed, or for the addition of new hairstyles, make-up etc, then the OP also has every right to ask for something as well. You don't have to agree or like the idea that is being proposed, but if it doesn't affect actual game play mechanics, the only argument you have against it is personal preference.Far too many characters to list any more.3 -
BloodStorm✭✭✭Like has been said before, your vampire appearance Doesn't mean anything lore wise in ESO. If it meant something stage 4 would be KoS. If ZoS decides to continue lore breaking and not have city guards KoS us then they should give the face change option to vampires. It is dumb that you can stand in town looking like a zombie/vampire and no Npcs or guards care. So the real solution in my opinion is when crime system launches you either get bounties for being a Vampire/ KoS while in towns or they give vampires the appearance change choices if they decide to not make us targets for death. I think both would be nice but I will sacrifice the option to change appearance if us vampires become the immortal outcasts we are. Like a post I had before, they should make vampire houses like Ravenwatch and the ones in Eastmarch and so on as places for us vampires to repair and do business. All in all I agree on vampires getting appearance choices at the moment because our appearance has pretty much no effect like it should in ES games. If you played oblivion and Skyrim the max stage was kill on sight by guards. They added the non KoS in Dawnguard DLC and changed it to gargoyle form is KoS.Edited by BloodStorm on September 15, 2014 1:22AM3
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poodlemasterb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭LOL thread. I have been watching.
My VR6 Vampire Witch is hideous when she's stage 4, seems about right. I'm not all that careful about what stage she's in, except before a major fight and then she will feed to stage one.
She is Altmer, just short of 1000 years old, and is way past caring what people think of her looks. She does wear a Breton hat at all times to spare the general public from being terrified. Although she is not particularly sensitive to the fear people feel in general, we don't want to cause a panic. Spook the horses, that kind of thing.
I am amused by the pretty vampire crowd. So sparkly.
The Red Witch:
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BloodStorm✭✭✭
Haha. So many sparkle jokes. Never seen those movies, never will. Although Lestat from" interview with a vampire" says it best." what is the point of immortality if you dont enjoy it". Look good and party and laugh and so forth. Of course I would prefer to live way up in the mountains in the snow in a giant castle with *** all the time and fancy clothes ,Haha. Away from mortals knowledge.poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »LOL thread. I have been watching.
My VR6 Vampire Witch is hideous when she's stage 4, seems about right. I'm not all that careful about what stage she's in, except before a major fight and then she will feed to stage one.
She is Altmer, just short of 1000 years old, and is way past caring what people think of her looks. She does wear a Breton hat at all times to spare the general public from being terrified. Although she is not particularly sensitive to the fear people feel in general, we don't want to cause a panic. Spook the horses, that kind of thing.
I am amused by the pretty vampire crowd. So sparkly.
The Red Witch:
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Aoife32001✭✭✭✭I'm not reading through 9 pages of posts, so forgive me if this has already been said...
While I sympathize with the OPs request, what this basically leads to is a normal character with the passives/actives that it seems everyone wants for PvP. I think part of being a vampire is dealing with some change in appearance, and, given ES lore as a whole, it's going to inevitably be a rather negative one. Even if appearance options are introduced, something is going to be needed to distinguish vampires (other than their spells), not just for the sake of recognizing them on the battlefield but also simply to prevent everyone and their uncle from grabbing one because there are no negative consequences to character appearance.
Sure, in ESO, there are a few NPCs that turn out to be vampires but hid it well. I can think of 2 examples from ESO itself. That being said... that is more Zenimax/Bethesda being inconsistent with lore than with what is typical in lore itself. I remember vampires from almost every ES game I've ever played, and it's almost always been rather obvious.... Not always, but almost always....
If you don't want your character to look like an abomination... don't become an abomination!Edited by Aoife32001 on September 15, 2014 3:35AM3 -
BloodStorm✭✭✭
the NPCs think we are mortal and towns as well. Apparently we are not abominations. We are just Fugly, haha.Aoife32001 wrote: »I'm not reading through 9 pages of posts, so forgive me if this has already been said...
While I sympathize with the OPs request, what this basically leads to is a normal character with the passives/actives that it seems everyone wants for PvP. I think part of being a vampire is dealing with some change in appearance, and, given ES lore as a whole, it's going to inevitably be a rather negative one. Even if appearance options are introduced, something is going to be needed to distinguish vampires (other than their spells), not just for the sake of recognizing them on the battlefield but also simply to prevent everyone and their uncle from grabbing one because there are no negative consequences to character appearance.
Sure, in ESO, there are a few NPCs that turn out to be vampires but hid it well. I can think of 2 examples from ESO itself. That being said... that is more Zenimax/Bethesda being inconsistent with lore than with what is typical in lore itself. I remember vampires from almost every ES game I've ever played, and it's almost always been rather obvious.... Not always, but almost always....
If you don't want your character to look like an abomination... don't become an abomination!
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Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭This tells me, without a shadow of a doubt that the strain of Vampirism came directly from Lamae Bal, and as such would be considered pure-blooded. This also tells me that since Kin are able to hide themselves among the mortal mass, to even RULE them, they have an ability to appear normal which our player characters don't have.
If this were the case, then you would not be effected by an entirely different strain of vampiric disease than the one Lamae Bal's descendants are known to have.
This tells me, w/out a shadow of a doubt, that your strain of vampirism did NOT come directly from Lamae Bal.
There's really no getting around this very simple fact.
There is established lore (not just from this game, but from the previous games as well) and you are literally trying to retcon it to suit your desires to RP as a Cyrodiliic Order vamp. But you aren't a Cyrodiliic Order vamp in the game, you are a Noxiphilic vamp. They are not the same.
It's like walking into a hospital insisting that you have SARS when you really only have the common cold. Then, when everyone points out that your test results are negative for SARS, you go on a tirade against the doctors.
Now, you can RP a Cyrodiliic vamp if you want, but you can also RP as a futuristic exo-skeletal suit wearing super soldier if that floats your boat. Does this mean that ZOS should now add Terminator-esque robot disguises to the game, because "cosmetics don't hurt anyone"?
No, it doesn't. The request for pretty vamps that break lore is just as ludicrous, imo. It makes no sense w/in the realm of the ES universe.
PS) There are still a ton of disguises you can use that are already in the game if you want to aid w/ RP'ing as a vamp that can hide their vamp appearance. I'm still not quite certain why these can't be used instead of adding lore-breaking cosmetic changes to the game just because.Edited by Varicite on September 15, 2014 5:49AM3 -
Nebthet78✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This tells me, without a shadow of a doubt that the strain of Vampirism came directly from Lamae Bal, and as such would be considered pure-blooded. This also tells me that since Kin are able to hide themselves among the mortal mass, to even RULE them, they have an ability to appear normal which our player characters don't have.
If this were the case, then you would not be effected by an entirely different strain of vampiric disease than the one Lamae Bal's descendants are known to have.
This tells me, w/out a shadow of a doubt, that your strain of vampirism did NOT come directly from Lamae Bal.
There's really no getting around this very simple fact.
There is established lore (not just from this game, but from the previous games as well) and you are literally trying to retcon it to suit your desires to RP as a Cyrodiliic Order vamp. But you aren't a Cyrodiliic Order vamp in the game, you are a Noxiphilic vamp. They are not the same.
It's like walking into a hospital insisting that you have SARS when you really only have the common cold. Then, when everyone points out that your test results are negative for SARS, you go on a tirade against the doctors.
Now, you can RP a Cyrodiliic vamp if you want, but you can also RP as a futuristic exo-skeletal suit wearing super soldier if that floats your boat. Does this mean that ZOS should now add Terminator-esque robot disguises to the game, because "cosmetics don't hurt anyone"?
No, it doesn't. The request for pretty vamps that break lore is just as ludicrous, imo. It makes no sense w/in the realm of the ES universe.
PS) There are still a ton of disguises you can use that are already in the game if you want to aid w/ RP'ing as a vamp that can hide their vamp appearance. I'm still not quite certain why these can't be used instead of adding lore-breaking cosmetic changes to the game just because.
I'm sorry, but call it what you want. It is NOT the initial strain of vampirism you receive that actually turns your character!! The dialogue in the game very clearly states that Lamae Bal infected you with HER gift... Not any other strain of vampirism due to your character being corrupted by Molag Bal thus making you unique, and no other being able to infect you.
"If you were like other mortals you would soon turn. But you are unique" - Rahaja ".... Only Mother Lamae herself may turn you into one of us."
Additionally, I have not seen any where in this game that states you have contracted "Noxiphilic" Sanguivoria. Nothing! When you get bitten, it just states that you have been bitten by a Vampire when you hold your mouse over "Vampirism" in your character screen. So I have no clue where you are getting that PC vampires are the Noxiphilic line, other than from a LORE BOOK called "Noxiphilic Sanguivoria" which just gives basic info relating to "Common" vampires, found in Tamriel like the blood fiends and why our PCs come across them in the daylight.
The in game dialogue also indicates the ability to walk among mortals despite whatever the developers chose to call it and by default, despite what vampires look like in the game, they seem to automatically have the ability to hide themselves from the NPC populace even at Stage 4, which I agree shouldn't really happen at Stage 4, but it is what it is right now.
You say it is lore breaking, I say it's not based on the information regarding the lines available on the wiki pages as well as what has been written in the lore books, and what has actually been implemented in the game by ZOS. Just because there is a lore book called Noxiphilic Sanguivoria doesn't automatically mean PC vamps are this line of vampire.
This, therefore, leaves lots and lots of room for game developers to be able to expand on the vampire lines and abilities which players could take advantage of as the game itself grows and expands over the next couple of years.
Yes, there are a tonne of disguises you can find in the game.. however, most of those disguises don't hide your affliction, are easily lost due to bugs in the game, which makes it a pain in the arse to get them back, and they are not aesthetically pleasing to how I want my character to look. I only found one disguised I liked to use on my one female character. That's after going through all factions and not a single one I would want to perpetually use on my male character.
Frankly, I like how my character looked at Stage 4, with the weaknesses and everything, I was able to work within those confines. But as an ongoing player, who will not ever do PVP, I am looking for something more substantial from my PVE experience where I feel the decisions I have made as a character make a difference, especially when the justice system is rolled out. Some people are wanting NPCs to hunt vampires at when they are a certain level and as a counter to that, I see no reason why the OP's idea cannot be implemented.
Far too many characters to list any more.2 -
Mondo✭✭✭✭Whats this bullcrap about cant see them in PVP with normal apperance. When i wear a helmet no one will see like you can see when someone cross your way if its a vamp. You only will see it when he Poop Swarm!
Invalid arguments
Im not the Hero you need, im the Troll you deserve!
- Survived the WoW Pre LK Rogue Forum "Come at me Bro" -
L2P = Accept that DK is OP and stop complaining1 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Aoife32001 wrote: »I'm not reading through 9 pages of posts, so forgive me if this has already been said...
While I sympathize with the OPs request, what this basically leads to is a normal character with the passives/actives that it seems everyone wants for PvP. I think part of being a vampire is dealing with some change in appearance, and, given ES lore as a whole, it's going to inevitably be a rather negative one. Even if appearance options are introduced, something is going to be needed to distinguish vampires (other than their spells), not just for the sake of recognizing them on the battlefield but also simply to prevent everyone and their uncle from grabbing one because there are no negative consequences to character appearance.
Sure, in ESO, there are a few NPCs that turn out to be vampires but hid it well. I can think of 2 examples from ESO itself. That being said... that is more Zenimax/Bethesda being inconsistent with lore than with what is typical in lore itself. I remember vampires from almost every ES game I've ever played, and it's almost always been rather obvious.... Not always, but almost always....
If you don't want your character to look like an abomination... don't become an abomination!
The thing is, appearance is not a mechanic, any more than hairstyle or armor color is. Yes, there SHOULD be balancing downsides to the advantages being a vampire confers. And ZoS HAS included them via the mechanics of the various stages and the major weakness to fire damage. Now I get that some people feel those disadvantages are not enough. And they are welcome to lobby for further balance and I will leave the refutation of that particular argument to those who are better versed in the math than I. But as appearance has nothing to do with mechanics I will continue to call shenanigans on those trying to say it is some sort of intended balance when it's clearly not. I will also point out, again, that the "downside" of appearance stops absolutely no one from playing a vampire for the perceived advantages it gives in PvP. THAT crowd could care less what their vampire looks like and the unfortunate way appearance works now has absolutely ZERO deterrence on those who are primarily PvPers.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!3 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DagothMacellarius wrote: »Like has been said before, your vampire appearance Doesn't mean anything lore wise in ESO. If it meant something stage 4 would be KoS. If ZoS decides to continue lore breaking and not have city guards KoS us then they should give the face change option to vampires. It is dumb that you can stand in town looking like a zombie/vampire and no Npcs or guards care. So the real solution in my opinion is when crime system launches you either get bounties for being a Vampire/ KoS while in towns or they give vampires the appearance change choices if they decide to not make us targets for death. I think both would be nice but I will sacrifice the option to change appearance if us vampires become the immortal outcasts we are. Like a post I had before, they should make vampire houses like Ravenwatch and the ones in Eastmarch and so on as places for us vampires to repair and do business. All in all I agree on vampires getting appearance choices at the moment because our appearance has pretty much no effect like it should in ES games. If you played oblivion and Skyrim the max stage was kill on sight by guards. They added the non KoS in Dawnguard DLC and changed it to gargoyle form is KoS.
So what do you think of the idea, as requested, that the appearance changes ONLY apply to Stages 1 through 3? Any alteration goes away at Stage 4, the "monster" is revealed and, HOPEFULLY, the upcoming justice system DOES make Stage 4 vampires KOS to city guards? I also hope the justice system will allow vampires to feed on Townie NPCs but, if "caught"/observed by another player, they become flagged for PvP/incur a bounty. There DOES need to be a chance to get away with feeding on Townies but it really does need to be risky. Your thoughts on that?PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!4 -
jelliedsoup✭✭✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »Excellent question. The way vampires look has no adverse impact on their mechanics. They could advance through all the stages looking exactly the same with absolutely no effect on the shifting stats the various stages confer. Since this is the case I simply do not understand why people like yourself keep insisting that this minor cosmetics issue is some sort of "balancing" when it is nothing of the sort. So I really don't understand why we're having this conversation either since there's absolutely nothing to object about in my request.
No its not balancing, your appearance is penance for the skills.
For example I don't want a charcter to be a khajit, but I like their racial passives the most. What did I do I hear you ask? I didn't choose a khajit. I didn't partition the ESO community because I feel I'm entitled to have my cake and eat it too. Obviously you do, hence the disagreement.
www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Ks8_KGHqmO41 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Whats this bullcrap about cant see them in PVP with normal apperance. When i wear a helmet no one will see like you can see when someone cross your way if its a vamp. You only will see it when he Poop Swarm!
Invalid arguments
I'm not ENTIRELY sure what you mean here but yes, it's been pointed out that any perceived advantage to be gained by being able to "see" vampires in PvP is easily negated by many armors available. And THAT "advantage" can be negated in turn by add-ons that allow you to see who is and isn't a vamp regardless of what they are wearing. The fact that ZoS has made it so vamps CAN "hide" in PvP tells me that appearance was never intended to be a PvP disadvantage for the sake of balancing. If anything, it seems more like the identification add-on is a cheat.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!3 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jelliedsoup wrote: »MornaBaine wrote: »Excellent question. The way vampires look has no adverse impact on their mechanics. They could advance through all the stages looking exactly the same with absolutely no effect on the shifting stats the various stages confer. Since this is the case I simply do not understand why people like yourself keep insisting that this minor cosmetics issue is some sort of "balancing" when it is nothing of the sort. So I really don't understand why we're having this conversation either since there's absolutely nothing to object about in my request.
No its not balancing, your appearance is penance for the skills.
For example I don't want a charcter to be a khajit, but I like their racial passives the most. What did I do I hear you ask? I didn't choose a khajit. I didn't partition the ESO community because I feel I'm entitled to have my cake and eat it too. Obviously you do, hence the disagreement.
If you really like khajiit passives but don't want to play a kahjiit and truly feel those passives SHOULD be available for other races, you are, of course, perfectly at liberty to petition ZoS for some sort of alteration. I don't play khajiits either so off the top of my head I don't even know what their passives are, but if you could state your case with support from lore that passive X should be available to race Y as well as khajiits then you'd have a reasonable argument that ZoS may or may not choose to act upon. And yes, you'd be flooded with the arse haberdashery crowd on your thread as well no doubt, just as this thread has been. But there'd still be no real reason NOT to make the request.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!2 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
PS) There are still a ton of disguises you can use that are already in the game if you want to aid w/ RP'ing as a vamp that can hide their vamp appearance. I'm still not quite certain why these can't be used instead of adding lore-breaking cosmetic changes to the game just because.
And if ANY of those disguises acted as an illusion that hid vampirism I would be all for using them instead. But what you refer to are just masks, which is not what I want at all. A lot of the disguises break and disappear in combat and this would also be great as we can assume that that the stress of combat would break a vampire's concentration and they would be unable to maintain any illusions while fighting for their lives. A "costume" that is actually an illusion conferring the appearance of Stage 1 OR "normal human/mer" would be a perfectly acceptable "solution" for me, even if (maybe especially if) you had to do a difficult, higher level quest in order to obtain the "secret" of acquiring such an illusion/disguise. I am curious though to know if that would be acceptable to YOU and, if not, why not.
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!2
