Options for Vampire Appearance

MornaBaine · September 2014

jelliedsoup wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

find it amusing that there are those here so quick to now suddenly attack me and hurl the word "old" as if it were an insult. I'm the one who told you I was old kids so obviously it's not something that bothers me all that much. And as an FYI vampires, regardless of the stage of appearance, never actually look old and haggard... they look like monsters. So yeah, that's how I know you're attempting, however poorly, to insult me directly.

How young you must be. Or simply painfully ignorant of history. As early as the 1830s (well before Dracula in the 1860s) vampires were portrayed as beautiful creatures. Look up La Morte Amoureus, it even has a Wikipedia entry for you since I doubt very much that reading famous historical authors is your strong suit. The legend of the Greek Lamia, an ancient bit of folklore, portrays them as beautiful women. Time and again, folklore, literature, and cinema has portrayed the vampire as beautiful as often as they have been portrayed as hideous and terrifying. So there is ample reason to believe it can go either way. All I ask is that this decision be placed in the hands of the players when it comes to their own characters.

Twilight is in no way representative of the way vampires have been portrayed down through the ages and citing it as an argument is not only completely nonsensical but simply shows the lack of knowledge possessed by those who try to hurl it about as some sort of insult towards those who like vampires.

Lastly, crying, "I don't like bats" is not a legitimate basis for arguing against this request.

I find it amusing that you seem to think your character looking old is a personal insult to you. That you can't separate your character from your own age is all the more reason not to choose a character which ages, don't become a vamp and maintain your youthful exebuerance.

Wow you really don't actually read at all do you? As I already said, vampires don't look old. They look scary. The scary look is actually pretty cool. I just don't want to be stuck with it ALL the time. And there's no real reason why I should. YOU were the one trying to throw out the "old" stuff as an insult AFTER I had mentioned that I, in fact, AM old. The word "old" never came out of you until after I said it. So I understand exactly what you were trying to do, even though you were doing it quite ineptly.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

I completed a post grad qualification in history so you assume incorrectly. The history I studied involved facts, not so heavy on the history of fiction. We never touched on Vlad the impaler though so you got me there.

Indeed I do. I've studied his history extensively, both in college classes and on my own and have written several papers on him. Likewise, my own college education has involved a class that fulfilled a Humanities requirement that was actually about vampires. Really. And when I got the syllabus I discovered that I already owned and had read every book on it in addition to owning all the movies that were also part of the course. Yep, it's a silly hobby (almost as silly as playing MMOs), but when it comes to vampires, I know my stuff. And as an English Lit major that had to toss a coin as to which would be my minor, history or psych as I had ample credits in both, you're right, I am probably better versed in historical literature than you are. This doesn't make either of us intellectually superior to the other (indeed I actually like you a tiny bit more just because of your history credentials now) but it does mean, for purposes of this particular discussion, that I am amply over qualified to expound upon all things vampire...including those ESO related since it was the vampires, and learning alllll about them, that drew me to the game in the first place.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

I actually like bats, it's the amount of damage devouring swarm does.

I'm pretty sure you know we're talking about the same thing.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Your arguments are fueled by emotion and plummet into name calling too quick.

Wrong again. My arguments are based upon reasonable customer service requests of a company I pay a decent amount of money to in order that they entertain me. My requests do no harm, should they be implemented, to any other players. Nor do I name call. I DO name BEHAVIOR as I see it. I am, of course, frustrated by the amount of emotional and childish foolishness and spite I am encountering by a few (thankfully not even the majority) of people on this thread. But I am not at all emotional or worked up about it. You confuse my tenacity and desire for clarification for something it is not. Or perhaps I am simply too optimistic about hoping that, with careful and patient explanation, people will see the errors they have fallen into and correct them.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

The vampire market is dominated by young kids, much like Justin bieber if you expect support for this I think you're asking the wrong crowd.

Wrong again. I suppose it won't surprise you to know that I also closely follow popular vampire literature. And while there IS a large youth market for vampire themes and plenty of bad writing available to fuel it, that is a very long way off from being the majority of people with an interest in vampires as entertainment. And even movies have, of late, been targeted to a more mature and intellectual market, as illustrated by recent films like The Only Lovers Left Alive (which also boasts an amazing soundtrack) and Byzantium... films WORLDS away from that trash known as Twilight. Books like Thirteen and Agyar and The Lord of the Dead were all written for an audience nothing at all like the kids who consume The Vampire Diaries. And then there's True Blood, often silly but also witty and sharp (both the books and the series) and definitely NOT for kids. Hemlock Grove does an amazing job of fusing folklore into a modern and youthful setting as well and having stellar turns by young actors...and several actors at least my own age as well. MOST of the people I know playing vampires here in ESO, and there are many of them, are NOT kids by any stretch of the imagination. Most of them have kids of their own, jobs, and lives. So it's really not my fault that you've bought into a popular stereotype without giving it any thought, let alone any research.

BloodStorm · September 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

find it amusing that there are those here so quick to now suddenly attack me and hurl the word "old" as if it were an insult. I'm the one who told you I was old kids so obviously it's not something that bothers me all that much. And as an FYI vampires, regardless of the stage of appearance, never actually look old and haggard... they look like monsters. So yeah, that's how I know you're attempting, however poorly, to insult me directly.

How young you must be. Or simply painfully ignorant of history. As early as the 1830s (well before Dracula in the 1860s) vampires were portrayed as beautiful creatures. Look up La Morte Amoureus, it even has a Wikipedia entry for you since I doubt very much that reading famous historical authors is your strong suit. The legend of the Greek Lamia, an ancient bit of folklore, portrays them as beautiful women. Time and again, folklore, literature, and cinema has portrayed the vampire as beautiful as often as they have been portrayed as hideous and terrifying. So there is ample reason to believe it can go either way. All I ask is that this decision be placed in the hands of the players when it comes to their own characters.

Twilight is in no way representative of the way vampires have been portrayed down through the ages and citing it as an argument is not only completely nonsensical but simply shows the lack of knowledge possessed by those who try to hurl it about as some sort of insult towards those who like vampires.

Lastly, crying, "I don't like bats" is not a legitimate basis for arguing against this request.

I find it amusing that you seem to think your character looking old is a personal insult to you. That you can't separate your character from your own age is all the more reason not to choose a character which ages, don't become a vamp and maintain your youthful exebuerance.

Wow you really don't actually read at all do you? As I already said, vampires don't look old. They look scary. The scary look is actually pretty cool. I just don't want to be stuck with it ALL the time. And there's no real reason why I should. YOU were the one trying to throw out the "old" stuff as an insult AFTER I had mentioned that I, in fact, AM old. The word "old" never came out of you until after I said it. So I understand exactly what you were trying to do, even though you were doing it quite ineptly.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

I completed a post grad qualification in history so you assume incorrectly. The history I studied involved facts, not so heavy on the history of fiction. We never touched on Vlad the impaler though so you got me there.

Indeed I do. I've studied his history extensively, both in college classes and on my own and have written several papers on him. Likewise, my own college education has involved a class that fulfilled a Humanities requirement that was actually about vampires. Really. And when I got the syllabus I discovered that I already owned and had read every book on it in addition to owning all the movies that were also part of the course. Yep, it's a silly hobby (almost as silly as playing MMOs), but when it comes to vampires, I know my stuff. And as an English Lit major that had to toss a coin as to which would be my minor, history or psych as I had ample credits in both, you're right, I am probably better versed in historical literature than you are. This doesn't make either of us intellectually superior to the other (indeed I actually like you a tiny bit more just because of your history credentials now) but it does mean, for purposes of this particular discussion, that I am amply over qualified to expound upon all things vampire...including those ESO related since it was the vampires, and learning alllll about them, that drew me to the game in the first place.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

I actually like bats, it's the amount of damage devouring swarm does.

I'm pretty sure you know we're talking about the same thing.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Your arguments are fueled by emotion and plummet into name calling too quick.

Wrong again. My arguments are based upon reasonable customer service requests of a company I pay a decent amount of money to in order that they entertain me. My requests do no harm, should they be implemented, to any other players. Nor do I name call. I DO name BEHAVIOR as I see it. I am, of course, frustrated by the amount of emotional and childish foolishness and spite I am encountering by a few (thankfully not even the majority) of people on this thread. But I am not at all emotional or worked up about it. You confuse my tenacity and desire for clarification for something it is not. Or perhaps I am simply too optimistic about hoping that, with careful and patient explanation, people will see the errors they have fallen into and correct them.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

The vampire market is dominated by young kids, much like Justin bieber if you expect support for this I think you're asking the wrong crowd.

Wrong again. I suppose it won't surprise you to know that I also closely follow popular vampire literature. And while there IS a large youth market for vampire themes and plenty of bad writing available to fuel it, that is a very long way off from being the majority of people with an interest in vampires as entertainment. And even movies have, of late, been targeted to a more mature and intellectual market, as illustrated by recent films like The Only Lovers Left Alive (which also boasts an amazing soundtrack) and Byzantium... films WORLDS away from that trash known as Twilight. Books like Thirteen and Agyar and The Lord of the Dead were all written for an audience nothing at all like the kids who consume The Vampire Diaries. And then there's True Blood, often silly but also witty and sharp (both the books and the series) and definitely NOT for kids. Hemlock Grove does an amazing job of fusing folklore into a modern and youthful setting as well and having stellar turns by young actors...and several actors at least my own age as well. MOST of the people I know playing vampires here in ESO, and there are many of them, are NOT kids by any stretch of the imagination. Most of them have kids of their own, jobs, and lives. So it's really not my fault that you've bought into a popular stereotype without giving it any thought, let alone any research.

I agree. Very nice read. You write very well. Impressed me,ha. I never read or saw twilight movies that some people talk about and heard it was some romance stuff, which does not appeal to me.. I love vampires because they connect with me on a deep level. I grew up most of my life with PTSD from having a unimaginable violent and abusive past as a child and have been plagued with horrible thoughts and anger issues my whole life and am lucky to not be in prison and so forth. Video games and Vampire lore literally saved my life. It connects with how I am and how I am physically in peak condition at 8% bodyfat /muscular and have been told I should be a model and when people always are suprised I never had a girlfriend i just end the conversation. Truth is I am insecure and cant trust the ugly side inside me so I cover it up to others by looking good on the outside. I imagine this is definitely weird and a extreme comparison for many. I am sure those who have severe depression and so forth would understand my comment though. Sorry for rambling and it is nice to see another person who does not see vampire lore as a black and white decision or saying it is for dumb kids / teens and so forth, and understands it represents the monster inside us and antisocial behavior for many people.

MercyKilling · September 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

Wrong again. My arguments are based upon reasonable customer service requests of a company I pay a decent amount of money to in order that they entertain me.

So your 14.99 a month is worth more than mine or anyone else who is against this preference of yours? I think not.

MornaBaine wrote: »

My requests do no harm, should they be implemented, to any other players.

Ah, but here is the rub: you are not being harmed right now, the way things sit with vampires. So again...why is YOUR want so much more important than anyone else's?

Let's get this clear, as well. What you propose is a WANT. Not a need. Regardless of cosmetic only applications or even if there were some kind of mechanic affected by it. It remains a want. And regardless of savvy or vehemence.....what replies to the negative you have gotten are the same. Wants.

Your wants are no more important than anyone else's. We all pay to play, and thus are on equal footing as far as customer importance go. (Just to avoid misunderstanding, there's no emotion to this statement. It's purpose is to clarify only. Any emotion associated to it comes from the reader.)

MornaBaine wrote: »

Nor do I name call. I DO name BEHAVIOR as I see it. I am, of course, frustrated by the amount of emotional and childish foolishness and spite I am encountering by a few (thankfully not even the majority) of people on this thread. But I am not at all emotional or worked up about it. You confuse my tenacity and desire for clarification for something it is not. Or perhaps I am simply too optimistic about hoping that, with careful and patient explanation, people will see the errors they have fallen into and correct them.

I do see you as a bit of a drama llama. You act very put out by other people's opinions and feelings about this issue and immediately you started calling them out on it. While I do concede there have been some very.....unintelligent remarks made in the negative about this...I have seen you sweep intelligent, thoughtful responses right under the rug with the trollish ones so please do not take the "moral superiority" standpoint as all you are doing is the very same thing, just with more erudition.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Wrong again. I suppose it won't surprise you to know that I also closely follow popular vampire literature. And while there IS a large youth market for vampire themes and plenty of bad writing available to fuel it, that is a very long way off from being the majority of people with an interest in vampires as entertainment. And even movies have, of late, been targeted to a more mature and intellectual market, as illustrated by recent films like The Only Lovers Left Alive (which also boasts an amazing soundtrack) and Byzantium... films WORLDS away from that trash known as Twilight. Books like Thirteen and Agyar and The Lord of the Dead were all written for an audience nothing at all like the kids who consume The Vampire Diaries. And then there's True Blood, often silly but also witty and sharp (both the books and the series) and definitely NOT for kids. Hemlock Grove does an amazing job of fusing folklore into a modern and youthful setting as well and having stellar turns by young actors...and several actors at least my own age as well. MOST of the people I know playing vampires here in ESO, and there are many of them, are NOT kids by any stretch of the imagination. Most of them have kids of their own, jobs, and lives. So it's really not my fault that you've bought into a popular stereotype without giving it any thought, let alone any research.

I'm sorry, but True Blood is nothing more than tripe, as is Hemlock Grove. Both shows are the further romanticizing of monsters, serving to make "anti-heroes" out of them.

I do admit to not following vampire literature any more....because after the Anne Rice trash, that particular genre lost all appeal to me. Well...I actually got over my "vampires are cool!" phase while the word "teen" still applied to my age.

If it can ease your feelings, I also look at anthros, anime and pretty much anything influenced by either of those things as pure and utter sewer filling, so don't feel as if I'm picking on just you for your taste.

Edited for grammar.

MornaBaine · September 2014

MercyKilling wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Wrong again. My arguments are based upon reasonable customer service requests of a company I pay a decent amount of money to in order that they entertain me.

So your 14.99 a month is worth more than mine or anyone else who is against this preference of yours? I think not.

MornaBaine wrote: »

My requests do no harm, should they be implemented, to any other players.

Ah, but here is the rub: you are not being harmed right now, the way things sit with vampires. So again...why is YOUR want so much more important than anyone else's?

Let's get this clear, as well. What you propose is a WANT. Not a need. Regardless of cosmetic only applications or even if there were some kind of mechanic affected by it. It remains a want. And regardless of savvy or vehemence.....what replies to the negative you have gotten are the same. Wants.

Your wants are no more important than anyone else's. We all pay to play, and thus are on equal footing as far as customer importance go. (Just to avoid misunderstanding, there's no emotion to this statement. It's purpose is to clarify only. Any emotion associated to it comes from the reader.)

MornaBaine wrote: »

Nor do I name call. I DO name BEHAVIOR as I see it. I am, of course, frustrated by the amount of emotional and childish foolishness and spite I am encountering by a few (thankfully not even the majority) of people on this thread. But I am not at all emotional or worked up about it. You confuse my tenacity and desire for clarification for something it is not. Or perhaps I am simply too optimistic about hoping that, with careful and patient explanation, people will see the errors they have fallen into and correct them.

I do see you as a bit of a drama llama. You act very put out by other people's opinions and feelings about this issue and immediately you started calling them out on it. While I do concede there have been some very.....unintelligent remarks made in the negative about this...I have seen you sweep intelligent, thoughtful responses right under the rug with the trollish ones so please do not take the "moral superiority" standpoint as all you are doing is the very same thing, just with more erudition.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Wrong again. I suppose it won't surprise you to know that I also closely follow popular vampire literature. And while there IS a large youth market for vampire themes and plenty of bad writing available to fuel it, that is a very long way off from being the majority of people with an interest in vampires as entertainment. And even movies have, of late, been targeted to a more mature and intellectual market, as illustrated by recent films like The Only Lovers Left Alive (which also boasts an amazing soundtrack) and Byzantium... films WORLDS away from that trash known as Twilight. Books like Thirteen and Agyar and The Lord of the Dead were all written for an audience nothing at all like the kids who consume The Vampire Diaries. And then there's True Blood, often silly but also witty and sharp (both the books and the series) and definitely NOT for kids. Hemlock Grove does an amazing job of fusing folklore into a modern and youthful setting as well and having stellar turns by young actors...and several actors at least my own age as well. MOST of the people I know playing vampires here in ESO, and there are many of them, are NOT kids by any stretch of the imagination. Most of them have kids of their own, jobs, and lives. So it's really not my fault that you've bought into a popular stereotype without giving it any thought, let alone any research.

I'm sorry, but True Blood is nothing more than tripe, as is Hemlock Grove. Both shows are the further romanticizing of monsters, serving to make "anti-heroes" out of them.

I do admit to not following vampire literature any more....because after the Anne Rice trash, that particular genre lost all appeal to me. Well...I actually got over my "vampires are cool!" phase while the word "teen" still applied to my age.

If it can ease your feelings, I also look at anthros, anime and pretty much anything influenced by either of those things as pure and utter sewer filling, so don't feel as if I'm picking on just you for your taste.

Edited for grammar.

It's late and I'm tired so I'll try to keep this simple. I look at this particular issue the same way I look at gay marriage, though please don't imagine I give it the same level of importance. Far from it. But the point is, if 2 men or 2 women (or a group of a dozen for that matter!) want to get married, their doing so does not affect MY marriage in any way. Not even one little bit. So I have absolutely ZERO reason to deny them the right to marry. Since what my vampire looks like does not affect anyone but ME one little bit, should ZoS decide to grant me the right to have it my way, my fellow players have no right to deny me, lobby against me, or tell the government/ZoS that they better not allow me that right. It really is just that simple.

MercyKilling · September 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

It's late and I'm tired so I'll try to keep this simple. I look at this particular issue the same way I look at gay marriage, though please don't imagine I give it the same level of importance. Far from it. But the point is, if 2 men or 2 women (or a group of a dozen for that matter!) want to get married, their doing so does not affect MY marriage in any way. Not even one little bit. So I have absolutely ZERO reason to deny them the right to marry. Since what my vampire looks like does not affect anyone but ME one little bit, should ZoS decide to grant me the right to have it my way, my fellow players have no right to deny me, lobby against me, or tell the government/ZoS that they better not allow me that right. It really is just that simple.

By that argument, if ZOS should grant those of us against your want(which they did by default when they DESIGNED AND CREATED the game) our wishes.....you have no right to even suggest it. You are lobbying against the way it is intended to be.
And it really is just that simple.

Edit:
Furthermore....your wanting a change to vampire appearances DOES affect me. I get no end of pleasure seeing people run around pale and ugly as a price they pay for contracting a disease.

You want to take that pleasure away from me.

MornaBaine · September 2014

DagothMacellarius wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

find it amusing that there are those here so quick to now suddenly attack me and hurl the word "old" as if it were an insult. I'm the one who told you I was old kids so obviously it's not something that bothers me all that much. And as an FYI vampires, regardless of the stage of appearance, never actually look old and haggard... they look like monsters. So yeah, that's how I know you're attempting, however poorly, to insult me directly.

How young you must be. Or simply painfully ignorant of history. As early as the 1830s (well before Dracula in the 1860s) vampires were portrayed as beautiful creatures. Look up La Morte Amoureus, it even has a Wikipedia entry for you since I doubt very much that reading famous historical authors is your strong suit. The legend of the Greek Lamia, an ancient bit of folklore, portrays them as beautiful women. Time and again, folklore, literature, and cinema has portrayed the vampire as beautiful as often as they have been portrayed as hideous and terrifying. So there is ample reason to believe it can go either way. All I ask is that this decision be placed in the hands of the players when it comes to their own characters.

Twilight is in no way representative of the way vampires have been portrayed down through the ages and citing it as an argument is not only completely nonsensical but simply shows the lack of knowledge possessed by those who try to hurl it about as some sort of insult towards those who like vampires.

Lastly, crying, "I don't like bats" is not a legitimate basis for arguing against this request.

I find it amusing that you seem to think your character looking old is a personal insult to you. That you can't separate your character from your own age is all the more reason not to choose a character which ages, don't become a vamp and maintain your youthful exebuerance.

Wow you really don't actually read at all do you? As I already said, vampires don't look old. They look scary. The scary look is actually pretty cool. I just don't want to be stuck with it ALL the time. And there's no real reason why I should. YOU were the one trying to throw out the "old" stuff as an insult AFTER I had mentioned that I, in fact, AM old. The word "old" never came out of you until after I said it. So I understand exactly what you were trying to do, even though you were doing it quite ineptly.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

I completed a post grad qualification in history so you assume incorrectly. The history I studied involved facts, not so heavy on the history of fiction. We never touched on Vlad the impaler though so you got me there.

Indeed I do. I've studied his history extensively, both in college classes and on my own and have written several papers on him. Likewise, my own college education has involved a class that fulfilled a Humanities requirement that was actually about vampires. Really. And when I got the syllabus I discovered that I already owned and had read every book on it in addition to owning all the movies that were also part of the course. Yep, it's a silly hobby (almost as silly as playing MMOs), but when it comes to vampires, I know my stuff. And as an English Lit major that had to toss a coin as to which would be my minor, history or psych as I had ample credits in both, you're right, I am probably better versed in historical literature than you are. This doesn't make either of us intellectually superior to the other (indeed I actually like you a tiny bit more just because of your history credentials now) but it does mean, for purposes of this particular discussion, that I am amply over qualified to expound upon all things vampire...including those ESO related since it was the vampires, and learning alllll about them, that drew me to the game in the first place.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

I actually like bats, it's the amount of damage devouring swarm does.

I'm pretty sure you know we're talking about the same thing.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Your arguments are fueled by emotion and plummet into name calling too quick.

Wrong again. My arguments are based upon reasonable customer service requests of a company I pay a decent amount of money to in order that they entertain me. My requests do no harm, should they be implemented, to any other players. Nor do I name call. I DO name BEHAVIOR as I see it. I am, of course, frustrated by the amount of emotional and childish foolishness and spite I am encountering by a few (thankfully not even the majority) of people on this thread. But I am not at all emotional or worked up about it. You confuse my tenacity and desire for clarification for something it is not. Or perhaps I am simply too optimistic about hoping that, with careful and patient explanation, people will see the errors they have fallen into and correct them.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

The vampire market is dominated by young kids, much like Justin bieber if you expect support for this I think you're asking the wrong crowd.

Wrong again. I suppose it won't surprise you to know that I also closely follow popular vampire literature. And while there IS a large youth market for vampire themes and plenty of bad writing available to fuel it, that is a very long way off from being the majority of people with an interest in vampires as entertainment. And even movies have, of late, been targeted to a more mature and intellectual market, as illustrated by recent films like The Only Lovers Left Alive (which also boasts an amazing soundtrack) and Byzantium... films WORLDS away from that trash known as Twilight. Books like Thirteen and Agyar and The Lord of the Dead were all written for an audience nothing at all like the kids who consume The Vampire Diaries. And then there's True Blood, often silly but also witty and sharp (both the books and the series) and definitely NOT for kids. Hemlock Grove does an amazing job of fusing folklore into a modern and youthful setting as well and having stellar turns by young actors...and several actors at least my own age as well. MOST of the people I know playing vampires here in ESO, and there are many of them, are NOT kids by any stretch of the imagination. Most of them have kids of their own, jobs, and lives. So it's really not my fault that you've bought into a popular stereotype without giving it any thought, let alone any research.

I agree. Very nice read. You write very well. Impressed me,ha. I never read or saw twilight movies that some people talk about and heard it was some romance stuff, which does not appeal to me.. I love vampires because they connect with me on a deep level. I grew up most of my life with PTSD from having a unimaginable violent and abusive past as a child and have been plagued with horrible thoughts and anger issues my whole life and am lucky to not be in prison and so forth. Video games and Vampire lore literally saved my life. It connects with how I am and how I am physically in peak condition at 8% bodyfat /muscular and have been told I should be a model and when people always are suprised I never had a girlfriend i just end the conversation. Truth is I am insecure and cant trust the ugly side inside me so I cover it up to others by looking good on the outside. I imagine this is definitely weird and a extreme comparison for many. I am sure those who have severe depression and so forth would understand my comment though. Sorry for rambling and it is nice to see another person who does not see vampire lore as a black and white decision or saying it is for dumb kids / teens and so forth, and understands it represents the monster inside us and antisocial behavior for many people.

Hello and thank you! This is probably not the best venue to discuss the psychological attractions of vampires, not because the subject isn't worthy or interesting, but because the trolls will just come in and have a field day. And it's off topic. That said, it is not at all unnatural to armor oneself with the trappings of physical perfection which tends to keep people at a distance and to mask the turmoil raging inside. The vampire very much speaks to this. if you want to shoot the breeze about vampires and how the concept affects some people's lives, feel free to send me a private message, but let's leave it at this here.

MornaBaine · September 2014

MercyKilling wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

It's late and I'm tired so I'll try to keep this simple. I look at this particular issue the same way I look at gay marriage, though please don't imagine I give it the same level of importance. Far from it. But the point is, if 2 men or 2 women (or a group of a dozen for that matter!) want to get married, their doing so does not affect MY marriage in any way. Not even one little bit. So I have absolutely ZERO reason to deny them the right to marry. Since what my vampire looks like does not affect anyone but ME one little bit, should ZoS decide to grant me the right to have it my way, my fellow players have no right to deny me, lobby against me, or tell the government/ZoS that they better not allow me that right. It really is just that simple.

By that argument, if ZOS should grant those of us against your want(which they did by default when they DESIGNED AND CREATED the game) our wishes.....you have no right to even suggest it. You are lobbying against the way it is intended to be.
And it really is just that simple.

There is a great deal you obviously do not understand. What you are saying here is akin, in essence, to saying, "Well slavery was legal and that's the way it was set up by the government and you don't have a right to try and change it because that's just how our laws were set up to be." Again, I'm not saying this issue is anywhere near on the scale of importance of ending slavery, but your mindset is exactly like those people who really thought it was perfectly fine because that's just the way it had always been. People, whether it be a matter of social justice or requesting a change in an entertainment product, are perfectly within their rights to ask for that change.

Editing to add....

I also really don't think ZoS gave too much thought to what they were doing when they set up the physical characteristics of vampires. I simply don't think it occurred to them to think, "Hey a lot of roleplayers are really going to hate this. And it doesn't make any sense that we give an NPC vampire the ability to hide his condition but deny that option to roleplayers." I really believe this was just an oversight on the part of the Devs and, fortunately, it's one that's easy to fix and could actually be done in a lot of different ways, nearly all of whihc cwould be totally acceptable.

jelliedsoup · September 2014

@MornaBaine‌

I honestly don't care on the history of vampire fiction. Cry as much as you want and blow it to make your emotional request feel justified to you. I can't take your request seriously as you feel its should be done simply because you requested it. That you can't understand why people oppose your request will be your problem, not theirs.

Vizier · September 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

And yet in my original post (the one I keep wondering if some of the people here even read) I used the game only lore to illustrate and back my position. I brought up real world folklore, literature and cinema because other people were trying to use modern movie depictions for their arguments. If people want to say "vampires have always been ugly until Twilight" I am perfectly within my rights to point out that they are completely wrong.

(smile) See, that's where you made your mistake. Most of us could give a flying fart about how vampires have been depicted throughout history, however, as you say, you are perfectly within your rights to point it out. Doesn't mean they have to change their minds and agree with you.

MornaBaine wrote: »

So do you feel the same way about the requests for more hairstyles and tattoos? Is your lack of desire to use a potential additional cosmetic benefit really a legitimate reason to deny it to others who would enjoy having it? Especially seeing as it would affect you in no way whatsoever?

No, I'm just biased toward vampires. I think they gain enough benefit and find it difficult enough to identify them in the heat of combat. I could care less about tattoos and hairstyles.

Besides I really do get off on seeing the pampered vampire community in ZOS frustrated over something.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Actually, it's not. There is no logical reason to argue that a player should be denied a benefit that has no negative consequence for other players. The only reason for doing so is pure spite.

It doesn't have to be logical Spock. It's a preference. My spiteful enjoyment actually comes after the fact.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Actually, I'm condescending. Because those "arguing their case" have yet to do so in ANY sort of reasonable or legitimate manner. You included.

If you say so It must be true. I suppose I'll take you at your word...

...I lied. Their preferences are legitimate enough reason for consideration in my book. Aristotelian Logic isn't exactly the beginning and end here. I appreciate that you believe you should get what you want for the reasons you stated. I and others disagree. You seem pretty upset you didn't really get the response you were hoping for.

Thank you for once again perfectly proving my point about those who keep coming on here to argue for no real reason but senseless spite. I appreciate your contribution.

Oh come off it. I made my points earlier and in good faith as have many others here. There comes a point, however, when it ceases to be a discussion, especially when all we see from you is... and I'll paraphraze, you don't agree with me, your point is invalid, illogical and therefor discounted, I'm going to repeat myself over and over until you either leave or agree with me, blah blah, there's no logical reason for blah blah.

See, in your case, reasonable people can't disagree. You have to "win" the point and for most of us it's not about that. You asked for opinions and you got them. You didn't like them so you began to cut people down and patronize them. I just kind of got sick of seeing it and decided it was a better use of my time to switch gears. I mean if the thread isn't going to be a discussion it may as well be entertaining. None of us are getting this time back.

BloodStorm · September 2014

in Skyrim you could change your face from the person in the thieves guild but if you were a vampire you were out of luck. I imagine spellcrafting or face change option in thieves guild will work in ESO for vampires because it is an MMO not single player and they want to add more options. The fact you do not get attacked at stage 4 in towns is already huge lore breaking so a little facial makeup seems fine to me. In skyrim dawnguard DLC they made it so towns did not attack you at higher stages and changed it to gargoyle form triggers it. Probably because players complained but also more realistic. Somehow guards knew you were a vampire even if your face was hidden and far away. Lol.

Aevric · September 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

Aevric wrote: »

Again, you disgruntled vampires asking for the devs to hard-code changes to the game because of your vanity are akin to werewolf players demanding that they be allowed to shapeshift into weremylittleponies, because they think wolves are too ugly.

Wow, you really like to repeat yourself, even when you're wrong. Since you can only tell a werewolf is a werewolf VISUALLY when they hit their Ult the 2 races are not at all analogous. In PvP no one should be able to tell a vamp is a vamp until they see them use a vamp ability. You know, just like they can't tell a werewolf is a werewolf until they see them use a werewolf ability. And for the rest of the children who just can't deal, there's always the lovely add-ons you can cheat with. I honestly don't care. And what's this, "Oh you want the devs to do all this terribly difficult work for you just because you're vain!"??? Seriously? Wanting to like how my character looks makes ME vain? Darling, in my modeling days I was vain but I happen to understand that there is a very large distinction between my character and me. It has zero to do with actual vanity and everything to do with simply desiring a visual aesthetic I enjoy. Lore supports my request and it would actually NOT be a difficult thing for the Devs to implement AT ALL, certainly no more difficult than all the changes and new content they are already constantly adding to the game. AGAIN, ZoS WANTS to know what players want. YOU not wanting another player to be happy does not, alas, fall into an area they take seriously. For which I am very thankful.

I'm not wrong.
Nor am I delusional.
Vampirism is classified in Elder Scrolls lore as a disease, an affliction, not a cosmetic lifestyle choice.
Don't like the way vampires look? Get cured. Problem solved.

BloodStorm · September 2014

No need to cure. People just want the option. Believe it or not these threads are ideas, not demands on ZoS. Shocker, I know.

Aevric · September 2014

DagothMacellarius wrote: »

No need to cure. People just want the option. Believe it or not these threads are ideas, not demands on ZoS. Shocker, I know.

Looking at the tone of those posing these "ideas" and their bashing of common sense responses, I beg to differ.

BloodStorm · September 2014

Aevric wrote: »

DagothMacellarius wrote: »

No need to cure. People just want the option. Believe it or not these threads are ideas, not demands on ZoS. Shocker, I know.

Looking at the tone of those posing these "ideas" and their bashing of common sense responses, I beg to differ.

haha.

Teiji · September 2014

DagothMacellarius wrote: »

No need to cure. People just want the option. Believe it or not these threads are ideas, not demands on ZoS. Shocker, I know.

There's just less of an emphasis on development of an idea and more of an emphasis on conversing in order to maintain an environment which is "right".
A negative one filled with negative-reinforcement.

Examples

I think this is bad because of X, if X was Y and Y was Z, then this would be like so and so, I think this would be a more effective development of this idea.

I like this idea, but I think It's too extreme how it is, I think It would make more sense to be something only attainable once you've acquired a minimal strength level, IC and OC. As it stands now, the vampirism and lycanthropy quests are done in the highest level pre-VR faction areas, we could become stronger then return there for another quest? Demonstrating our abilities and training new ones, such as a cosmetic only change which is removed upon entering combat and, such as vanity pets, can not be used in Cyrodiil, even though it would be removed upon entering combat, like disguises used in the disguise area are now, in the other zones. So when the justice system is released, if you're not using your 'blend-in', you're kill on sight. Molag Bal is the main antagonist of this game, the spawn of him shouldn't be unchecked to run around towns just because they helped some old Breton lady with her shopping. Different and dark areas with moral ambiguity though, who knows... Future content willing.

I'm sure, I've left loads of things out that could help in development of this idea, but I'm not too sure, what do other members of the community think and have to add to this constructive discussion?

Just a shame that It seems okay to steer a ship off-topic and into an underwater volcano for some.

The only way this idea would work for me though

Cosmetic only
Removed upon entering combat
<not 100% on this in its current time duration> Unable to be used in stage 4 [so you could forget whilst in town, then all of sudden people can see the hunger in your eyes and the paleness of your skin, providing you RP that way too of course and this applies, then they can attack you, come justice system of course]
Like vanity pets, unable to be used in Cyrodiil
Not accessible as soon as you become a vampire, possibly from a quest where you return to the dojo to revise, or you go to the dojo of another vampire clan in a future zone in future content and revise your vampiristic guile and skills there
You have the choice to use this ability at will or not use this as you don't care about being attacked by others and NPC guards as well as others seeing your appearance in general

MornaBaine · September 2014

jelliedsoup wrote: »

@MornaBaine‌

I honestly don't care on the history of vampire fiction. Cry as much as you want and blow it to make your emotional request feel justified to you. I can't take your request seriously as you feel its should be done simply because you requested it. That you can't understand why people oppose your request will be your problem, not theirs.

Yes, I do feel it should be done...not just because I requested it but because it is something a large amount of the players who play vampires want and would enjoy while taking nothing away from anyone else. Not one person who opposes this, especially yourself, has been able to put forth a single reason why it SHOULDN'T be done. It is not lore breaking. Nor is it altering game mechanics in any way. So really the only people who DO have a problem are those, like yourself, who keep screaming, "Just because I don't like it!" Sorry, not good enough.

MornaBaine · September 2014

Aevric wrote: »

DagothMacellarius wrote: »

No need to cure. People just want the option. Believe it or not these threads are ideas, not demands on ZoS. Shocker, I know.

Looking at the tone of those posing these "ideas" and their bashing of common sense responses, I beg to differ.

I've yet to see a "common sense" objection to this. ALL objections thus far are as follows.

1. I don't like Bat Swarm so if there's something about playing a vampire that players don't like I think they should be forced to suffer with it because then maybe less people will play vampires. And since I don't like Bat Swarm I want less people to play vampires.

I think this is the number one "argument" and may be the silliest. Vampires are part of the game and pretty much always have been, which is why players made a strong push for their inclusion in this MMO. Now if you have a problem with the skill line and feel it needs to be changed, you are perfectly at liberty to post on threads where that is the topic and argue your case for change.

2. I don't like vampires in general because of certain pop culture versions of them so I don't really want people to play them at all.

The fact that you don't like Twilight (and, if so, I certainly don't blame you as I don't like it either) has absolutely nothing to do with the vampires in this game. Constantly characterizing those who play vampires as angsty teenagers who don't understand anything about "real" (yes someone actually told me REAL vampires are ugly and I darn near fell out of my chair laughing!) vampires or even about vampires as part of ESO lore is not only completely false in most cases but is also needlessly insulting and antagonistic. It has nothing to do with the topic at hand and does not belong in this thread at all. It's just a childish attempt to derail and distract in the absence of a better argument.

3. In PvP I want to be able to tell who the vampires are on sight because I think this gives me an advantage over them.

This perceived advantage is easily negated by wearing any of the widely available armors that completely cover the head and all skin. And THAT "fix" is just as easily negated by using an add-on that allows you to identify vampires regardless of what they are wearing. So this particular argument makes absolutely no sense at all.

4. I think vampires are OP and because I am angry about this I am going to disagree with anything someone who plays vampires wants.

Yes, I've also seen this argument, in pretty much those words, over and over again. Do I really need to point out how foolish it is? It is nothing more than an emotional knee-jerk reaction and merits no consideration whatsoever. Yet certain people keep wasting my time with it.

5. I think vampires are working as intended and so I don't think players who play them have any right to ask ZoS to make ANY changes to them.

This one makes no sense either. ALL players have the right to make requests for changes to ANY class, race, or skill line, or indeed to the game in general. And the same people who keep trying to make this argument do not hesitate at all to request changes to any part of the game THEY don't like and often do. So the reek of hypocrisy here is pretty strong.

6. I think the way vampires look brings some sort of balance to their Ultimate ability.

So vampires have one (in your opinion) OP ability and you feel it helps "balance" that by making vampires unenjoyable to play to a certain segment of the playerbase. I can pretty much guarantee you that the people destroying you in PvP on their vampires are NOT among those who give a darn what their characters look like and would never spend a skillpoint or a single gold coin on an item that permitted them to blend into the normal population. The current state of affairs with vampires does not "hurt" anybody but, for the most part, roleplayers, who you seldom encounter in Cyrodil anyway. Not because roleplayers don't PvP (we do) but because, compared to those who pretty much JUST PvP, our numbers are miniscule. So this argument is also invalid.

7. Vampirism in this game is a disease and since it's a disease you have to look diseased.

What a peculiar disease.... one that makes you live forever, stop aging, and renders you immune to all other diseases. Why that sounds almost like...magic. That being the case, there is no logical reason against the idea that there would be those who had discovered equally magical means to hide their "disease" or even that there might be strains of it that do not show the physical side of it in order to render vampires more efficient predators. In a world so heavily drenched in magic, literally anything is possible. I have been bashed again and again for daring to apply logic to the topic of vampirism and yet again and again I am also faced by those who continue to insist that because vampirism is a disease it must follow certain rules, completely ignoring the presence of magic in this setting.

The other thing I have noticed is that the vast majority of those against this request are against it for reasons having to do with PvP. Well, I realize this may be difficult for some to swallow, but this game does not actually revolve around PvP. If you think Bat Swarm needs to be hit with the nerf stick and that you should be able to see a vampire coming a mile away you are at liberty to request that from ZoS. Maybe they'll even give vampires a bright neon red glow the moment they enter Cyrodil. You'll undoubtedly get lots of push back from PvPers who play vampires but you are certainly at liberty to bring the topic up to ZoS.

There, did I miss anything? Didn't think so.

JamilaRaj · September 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

@MornaBaine‌

I honestly don't care on the history of vampire fiction. Cry as much as you want and blow it to make your emotional request feel justified to you. I can't take your request seriously as you feel its should be done simply because you requested it. That you can't understand why people oppose your request will be your problem, not theirs.

Yes, I do feel it should be done...not just because I requested it but because it is something a large amount of the players who play vampires want and would enjoy while taking nothing away from anyone else. Not one person who opposes this, especially yourself, has been able to put forth a single reason why it SHOULDN'T be done. It is not lore breaking. Nor is it altering game mechanics in any way. So really the only people who DO have a problem are those, like yourself, who keep screaming, "Just because I don't like it!" Sorry, not good enough.

It's at least as good your own reasons, because in the end it's all about you just not liking bloodsuckers' ugly looks.

MornaBaine wrote: »

I look at this particular issue the same way I look at gay marriage, though please don't imagine I give it the same level of importance. Far from it. But the point is, if 2 men or 2 women (or a group of a dozen for that matter!) want to get married, their doing so does not affect MY marriage in any way. Not even one little bit. So I have absolutely ZERO reason to deny them the right to marry. Since what my vampire looks like does not affect anyone but ME one little bit, should ZoS decide to grant me the right to have it my way, my fellow players have no right to deny me, lobby against me, or tell the government/ZoS that they better not allow me that right. It really is just that simple.

If you looked at this in the same way, you would be OK with modding, which you have somewhat declined further up this thread.

MornaBaine · September 2014

JamilaRaj wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

@MornaBaine‌

I honestly don't care on the history of vampire fiction. Cry as much as you want and blow it to make your emotional request feel justified to you. I can't take your request seriously as you feel its should be done simply because you requested it. That you can't understand why people oppose your request will be your problem, not theirs.

Yes, I do feel it should be done...not just because I requested it but because it is something a large amount of the players who play vampires want and would enjoy while taking nothing away from anyone else. Not one person who opposes this, especially yourself, has been able to put forth a single reason why it SHOULDN'T be done. It is not lore breaking. Nor is it altering game mechanics in any way. So really the only people who DO have a problem are those, like yourself, who keep screaming, "Just because I don't like it!" Sorry, not good enough.

It's at least as good your own reasons, because in the end it's all about you just not liking bloodsuckers' ugly looks.

MornaBaine wrote: »

I look at this particular issue the same way I look at gay marriage, though please don't imagine I give it the same level of importance. Far from it. But the point is, if 2 men or 2 women (or a group of a dozen for that matter!) want to get married, their doing so does not affect MY marriage in any way. Not even one little bit. So I have absolutely ZERO reason to deny them the right to marry. Since what my vampire looks like does not affect anyone but ME one little bit, should ZoS decide to grant me the right to have it my way, my fellow players have no right to deny me, lobby against me, or tell the government/ZoS that they better not allow me that right. It really is just that simple.

If you looked at this in the same way, you would be OK with modding, which you have somewhat declined further up this thread.

I actually DON'T have a problem with modding per se. My objection to it, if you want to call it that, is from a mechanics standpoint. IF I were to mod my character then only those who use the same mod would see her as I redesigned her. This then becomes a problem in roleplay because people without the mod will see her and thus respond to her differently than those who do have the mod. Now, if my using a mod caused my modded character to look as I intended to EVERYONE, regardless of whether or not they themselves had or used the mod, then I would be perfectly fine with the mod. But, to my knowledge, that's not how it works and that's why mods remain problematical in MMOs. When the technology catches up so that they can be used effectively and safely in MMOs then I hope we WILL be able to use them.

As to your contention that, "It's at least as good your own reasons, because in the end it's all about you just not liking bloodsuckers' ugly looks." you are wrong. It's not even remotely the same and I'm struggling to see how you can fail to understand that. My character should look the way I intend it to, especially when having the ability to do so does not affect those NOT PLAYING MY CHARACTER. In the absence of demonstrable harm to others, anything should be allowable. Which is why I also advocate for the legalization of cannibis even though I don't smoke myself. If it's not hurting ME, I have no right to disallow its use to others. This is, in essence, the exact same thing.

Varicite · September 2014

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Hurbster wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Hurbster wrote: »

No. You take the easy route to power, you take the consequences as well.

First of all, playing a Vamp is NOT "the easy route to power" by any means. Vamps die and die quick in PvP and I'm not the only one to experience that so I don't know where this constant whining about vampires being OP comes from. I suspect it is simply hogwash. Secondly, the fact that you have a total misconception about vampires as a skill line has caused you to be bitter to the point where you don't want anyone to enjoy playing them so you'll spitefully weigh in on a conversation that has nothing to do with you and does not affect you in any way. That's pretty petty.

Heh, one of my chars is a vampire. I know exactly how powerful they are. And they are more powerful than a standard char of the same rank, class and race. So yes there should be drawbacks, including the fact they are as ugly as heck. Thanks for the personal insults, princess. And I got a reward from all those Lols, so cheers again. Please note that my original post contained no insults whatsoever. Don't insult people by calling them 'spiteful' and 'petty' just because someone does not agree with you. That makes you come across as someone who wants their cake and eats it as well.

The hell is the point of having cake if you're not going to eat it? Honestly, I want to travel back in time and punch whoever was just about to coin the term and ruin it forever.

If anyone has cake at any given moment, short of them making it for someone else/giving it to someone else, you bet your lily-white(or insert other flesh tone here) rear-end they're going to want to eat it.

Also there are plenty of drawbacks to vampire as is. The only thing vampire gives me as a Nightblade, is some nice self heals and a boon to sneaking.

If ZOS wants to listen to all the whining, I hope they take the high road and give all the people who wanna remain mortals, a perk in the Fighters guild that gives them a max of an extra 10% to their magicka/stamina regen.

That is all Vampire provides, an extra percentage to ability cost regen at the sacrifice of health regen.

They do that and boom, there you go - everything's fair and balanced. Until someone else finds something else to moan about.

Completely off-topic, but the phrase means that if you eat the cake, then you no longer have it.

Thus, you cannot have (keep) your cake, and eat it too.

On topic: I personally feel that the vamp aesthetics are fine as-is, though I can understand why some would want this change.

The simple fact of the matter is that nothing is going to make everyone happy, and I'd much rather have the art team be focused on something that will effect more players than just vampires. Perhaps in the distant future.

Also, the vampire pictured in the screenshots does not have the same strain of vampirism as player characters (though it's completely your choice to RP whatever you like, of course). Players receive their vampirism through a very specific means and are not purebloods like Count Ravenwatch, who received his "dark gift" straight from Molag Bal.

You are basically an orange who wants to be an apple. But you aren't an apple, sorry.

Teiji · September 2014

Varicite wrote: »

I personally feel that the vamp aesthetics are fine as-is,

This.
The moment guild lead told us to /traveltoplayer during early-access, I was excited, even more-so when I met the illustrious Lamae Bal, even more-so when my character's back stories were made clear. Then I realised that your appearance changes throughout the stages? So good.

I'd appreciate something similar to this idea and what Count Verandis does available to vampires, I'll still love everything in this game and about this game should something never be made available to the players.

Varicite wrote: »

Also, the vampire pictured in the screenshots does not have the same strain of vampirism as player characters

Genuinely curious as to what strain of vampirism the Count has, I honestly can't remember of the top of my head.

Varicite wrote: »

(though it's completely your choice to RP whatever you like, of course) You are basically an orange who wants to be an apple. But you aren't an apple, sorry.

I honestly don't understand what you mean with this, at all. Not going to even attempt to pretend I get what you're saying and interject respectfully.

Ragefist · September 2014

Dudes.... Barshwarma is so OP. Here is a proof

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3AXVuHRSR_w#

Varicite · September 2014

Teiji wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

I personally feel that the vamp aesthetics are fine as-is,

This.
The moment guild lead told us to /traveltoplayer during early-access, I was excited, even more-so when I met the illustrious Lamae Bal, even more-so when my character's back stories were made clear. Then I realised that your appearance changes throughout the stages? So good.

I'd appreciate something similar to this idea and what Count Verandis does available to vampires, I'll still love everything in this game and about this game should something never be made available to the players.

Varicite wrote: »

Also, the vampire pictured in the screenshots does not have the same strain of vampirism as player characters

Genuinely curious as to what strain of vampirism the Count has, I honestly can't remember of the top of my head.

Varicite wrote: »

(though it's completely your choice to RP whatever you like, of course) You are basically an orange who wants to be an apple. But you aren't an apple, sorry.

I honestly don't understand what you mean with this, at all. Not going to even attempt to pretend I get what you're saying and interject respectfully.

The Count is not infected w/ vampirism as a disease; I probably should not have called it a "different strain".

Count Verandis Ravenwatch is a pureblood vampire, not one that has been infected. He was turned directly by Molag Bal, like Lamae Beolfag (Lamae Bal). Consider these to be the "apples" of my analogy. : )

Player characters, however, are not pureblood vampires like Count Verandis and Lamae Bal. Player characters are infected by a strain of vampirism, a disease, by random no-name Blood Fiends who are not even pureblood vamps themselves.

You are basically infected by lackeys of vampires who are very far removed from an actual pureblood vampire, if they even came from a pureblood at all (who knows). These are the "oranges" of my analogy, as they are a completely different creature than a pureblood vampire, though there are many similarities mechanically.

Player characters are infected by a disease called Noxiphilic Sanguivoria. At no point in time does Molag Bal turn them into a vampire personally.

Ravenwatch is an "apple". Players are "oranges". This thread is about oranges asking to have all of the traits of an apple.

Unfortunately, though, oranges are not apples. Players are not pureblood vampires, and Noxiphilic Sanguivoria is not the single strain of vampirism that allows vampires to mask their appearance.

As an aside, Lamae Bal is the progenitor of Cyrodiliic vampires, who are able to mask their appearance. As Ravenwatch is also a pureblood vampire, turned by Molag Bal himself, it can be assumed that he also possesses the power to mask his appearance, which could explain the screenshots in the OP.

A player would not have this ability, however, as they are neither Cyrodiliic vampires or purebloods, but a completely different strain of the disease that does not allow one to mask their appearance naturally.

I know this was a bit long-winded, but this is my lore-friendly reasoning for thinking that the current aesthetics of vampires are fine as-is (not that I honestly need one to have an opinion).

I don't see any lore reason behind having Noxiphilic vamps suddenly having the traits of Cyrodiliic vamps just because some players would like to look "prettier". But hey, it's a game, and I wouldn't be surprised to see this happen eventually.

I just hope it's later, rather than sooner.

Vizier · September 2014

DagothMacellarius wrote: »

No need to cure. People just want the option. Believe it or not these threads are ideas, not demands on ZoS. Shocker, I know.

Oh, I think from the OP's perspective it's a demand and from her perspective a justifiable demand since from her perspective there is no good reason to deny her wants, desires, fancies and musings.

Teiji · September 2014

Varicite wrote: »

(though it's completely your choice to RP whatever you like, of course) You are basically an orange who wants to be an apple. But you aren't an apple, sorry.

So if I role-play a character as a daughter of Coldhabour who is madly in love with the Daedric prince of *** and so on, as It's completely my choice to role-play whatever I like, that's allowed or not allowed?

Varicite wrote: »

Player characters, however, are not pureblood vampires like Count Verandis and Lamae Bal. Player characters are infected by a strain of vampirism, a disease, by random no-name Blood Fiends who are not even pureblood vamps themselves.

What if our characters are written as vampires before even setting foot in Reapers March, Bangkorai and the Rift? My main for example, was a vampire before even leaving Soltheism. Providing It's our choice to RP whatever we like.

Varicite wrote: »

Lamae Bal is the progenitor of Cyrodiliic vampires

So when you do the vampire quest, Lamae Bal has zero influence on you and is only there for fluff?

Also, everything that happens OCLY and ICLY, Is as is. I've met players before who's character is role-played as of one of Harkon's court from Skyrim with their strand of vampirism, are you saying that person is not allowed to role-play like that? The same-way that I'm not allowed to role-play a daughter of coldharbour in this role-playing game? Now, I'm not trying to suggest this is what you're trying to say, I'm pre-emptively removing any confused that could occur with this paragraph, as the canvas to role-play with and get creative with that we can apply our imagination to, is vast. We're able to role-play whatever we like, but are we not allowed to do certain things that are justifiable in-game and so on and so forth?

Plus, there is no such school as illusion magic? The only entities within this fantasy universe capable of disguising their appearance are Cyrodillic vampires? Even though in several quests in-game there are times you shall disguise your appearance, such as one quest where you make your character look like a male imperial, magically. The one on Aldmeri Dominion side, Reapers March for example, is one, as is one AD side again, in Greenshade.

Varicite wrote: »

I don't see any lore reason behind having Noxiphilic vamps suddenly having the traits of Cyrodiliic vamps

I agree wholeheartedly, different strains are different, just like different schools of magic are different.

Varicite wrote: »

This thread is about oranges asking to have all of the traits of an apple.

I've participated in this thread with the mindset that forums are a place for constructive discussion, the original topic and idea intrigues and interests me, seeing it develop throughout this thread entertains me.

Vizier · September 2014

It's official-

This thread is a LOLipop used for SUCKing.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Aevric wrote: »

DagothMacellarius wrote: »

No need to cure. People just want the option. Believe it or not these threads are ideas, not demands on ZoS. Shocker, I know.

Looking at the tone of those posing these "ideas" and their bashing of common sense responses, I beg to differ.

I've yet to see a "common sense" objection to this. ALL objections thus far are as follows.

1. I don't like Bat Swarm so if there's something about playing a vampire that players don't like I think they should be forced to suffer with it because then maybe less people will play vampires. And since I don't like Bat Swarm I want less people to play vampires.

I think this is the number one "argument" and may be the silliest. Vampires are part of the game and pretty much always have been, which is why players made a strong push for their inclusion in this MMO. Now if you have a problem with the skill line and feel it needs to be changed, you are perfectly at liberty to post on threads where that is the topic and argue your case for change.

2. I don't like vampires in general because of certain pop culture versions of them so I don't really want people to play them at all.

The fact that you don't like Twilight (and, if so, I certainly don't blame you as I don't like it either) has absolutely nothing to do with the vampires in this game. Constantly characterizing those who play vampires as angsty teenagers who don't understand anything about "real" (yes someone actually told me REAL vampires are ugly and I darn near fell out of my chair laughing!) vampires or even about vampires as part of ESO lore is not only completely false in most cases but is also needlessly insulting and antagonistic. It has nothing to do with the topic at hand and does not belong in this thread at all. It's just a childish attempt to derail and distract in the absence of a better argument.

3. In PvP I want to be able to tell who the vampires are on sight because I think this gives me an advantage over them.

This perceived advantage is easily negated by wearing any of the widely available armors that completely cover the head and all skin. And THAT "fix" is just as easily negated by using an add-on that allows you to identify vampires regardless of what they are wearing. So this particular argument makes absolutely no sense at all.

4. I think vampires are OP and because I am angry about this I am going to disagree with anything someone who plays vampires wants.

Yes, I've also seen this argument, in pretty much those words, over and over again. Do I really need to point out how foolish it is? It is nothing more than an emotional knee-jerk reaction and merits no consideration whatsoever. Yet certain people keep wasting my time with it.

5. I think vampires are working as intended and so I don't think players who play them have any right to ask ZoS to make ANY changes to them.

This one makes no sense either. ALL players have the right to make requests for changes to ANY class, race, or skill line, or indeed to the game in general. And the same people who keep trying to make this argument do not hesitate at all to request changes to any part of the game THEY don't like and often do. So the reek of hypocrisy here is pretty strong.

6. I think the way vampires look brings some sort of balance to their Ultimate ability.

So vampires have one (in your opinion) OP ability and you feel it helps "balance" that by making vampires unenjoyable to play to a certain segment of the playerbase. I can pretty much guarantee you that the people destroying you in PvP on their vampires are NOT among those who give a darn what their characters look like and would never spend a skillpoint or a single gold coin on an item that permitted them to blend into the normal population. The current state of affairs with vampires does not "hurt" anybody but, for the most part, roleplayers, who you seldom encounter in Cyrodil anyway. Not because roleplayers don't PvP (we do) but because, compared to those who pretty much JUST PvP, our numbers are miniscule. So this argument is also invalid.

7. Vampirism in this game is a disease and since it's a disease you have to look diseased.

What a peculiar disease.... one that makes you live forever, stop aging, and renders you immune to all other diseases. Why that sounds almost like...magic. That being the case, there is no logical reason against the idea that there would be those who had discovered equally magical means to hide their "disease" or even that there might be strains of it that do not show the physical side of it in order to render vampires more efficient predators. In a world so heavily drenched in magic, literally anything is possible. I have been bashed again and again for daring to apply logic to the topic of vampirism and yet again and again I am also faced by those who continue to insist that because vampirism is a disease it must follow certain rules, completely ignoring the presence of magic in this setting.

The other thing I have noticed is that the vast majority of those against this request are against it for reasons having to do with PvP. Well, I realize this may be difficult for some to swallow, but this game does not actually revolve around PvP. If you think Bat Swarm needs to be hit with the nerf stick and that you should be able to see a vampire coming a mile away you are at liberty to request that from ZoS. Maybe they'll even give vampires a bright neon red glow the moment they enter Cyrodil. You'll undoubtedly get lots of push back from PvPers who play vampires but you are certainly at liberty to bring the topic up to ZoS.

There, did I miss anything? Didn't think so.

Yes. Your forgot to mention those objecting because; they plainly see your blind attachment to your ideals regarding vampires; your extremely privileged notion that it's up to us to prove you shouldn't have something rather then your needto prove why you should have something (as it's not in game the later is incumbent upon you.); your apparent belief ZOS is somehow beholden to you to provide for you your fantastical notions of vampirism; because in your world there is not enough room for disagreement on what the fictitious concept of vampirism means; your blatantly disregard of those who's preferences are not in accordance with yours since you obviously believe your preferences superior to theirs that love the current status quo and because we and ZoS owe you consideration in all things for that is your will AND ; of those that finally grew tired of your attitude and decided it was better to see you squirm over this issue than attempt to engage further in meaningful dialog.

Did I miss something? I don't believe I did.

WraithAzraiel · September 2014

MercyKilling wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

Wrong again. My arguments are based upon reasonable customer service requests of a company I pay a decent amount of money to in order that they entertain me.

So your 14.99 a month is worth more than mine or anyone else who is against this preference of yours? I think not.

How the hell did you get THAT out of the quoted statement? Anyone has the right to make a request. The fact that they HAVE made said request, in no way, shape, or form, denotes their payment to be superior to your own.

BUT just for the sake of argument and to make sense of your wildly unnecessary accusation.

If they happen to pay their subscriptions in 3 to 6 month increments, then no, they actually pay less per month than you do.

Stop picking fights, for the sake of arguing on the internet. It's unnecessary.

Varicite · September 2014

Teiji wrote: »

So if I role-play a character as a daughter of Coldhabour who is madly in love with the Daedric prince of *** and so on, as It's completely my choice to role-play whatever I like, that's allowed or not allowed?

As I said, and you quoted, you are allowed to RP whatever it is your little heart desires. You can say that you're the love child of Talos and Molag Bal for all I care. It's your game too.

Teiji wrote: »

What if our characters are written as vampires before even setting foot in Reapers March, Bangkorai and the Rift? My main for example, was a vampire before even leaving Soltheism. Providing It's our choice to RP whatever we like.

Again, that's completely up to you. However, simply because you choose to RP your storyline in a certain way does NOT mean that the game itself now needs to conform to your storyline.

In other words, all player characters are turned into vamps by Blood Fiends, in a level 30+ zone, and are infected by the same strain of vampirism. That's simply how it is.

If YOU choose to say that your character was a vamp long before this, that's completely fine, and I would expect those who are avid RPers would conform to your storyline, because that is how RP works in games of this nature.

It's not a pen and paper game, your character in ESO will never exactly reflect your RP background and storyline, because this is an on-rails experience w/ stories of its own.

For example, every player character has lost their soul, becomes a champion of their faction, defeats Molag Bal and becomes a hero of the land. All of them, individually.

Obviously, in a RP sense, not everybody can be the shining hero of the land, so parts of this are eschewed for RP purposes so that everyone can have their own individual storyline that other RPers can react to.

ie: Don't expect the devs to change the game mechanics every time you decide to do something different w/ your RP story; that's kinda ludicrous. They aren't going to rewrite the game so that Molag Bal meets Talos and has you, their love child. But you can still say and act that part, if it strikes your fancy.

Teiji wrote: »

So when you do the vampire quest, Lamae Bal has zero influence on you and is only there for fluff?

Pretty much, yes. You were bitten by a Blood Fiend and then brought to Lamae Bal for her to perform the sacred ritual.

Lamae Bal didn't bite you. Molag Bal didn't turn you. You are still the product of that Blood Fiend's disease.

Teiji wrote: »

We're able to role-play whatever we like, but are we not allowed to do certain things that are justifiable in-game and so on and so forth?

Answered this above. As you mentioned, peoples' imaginations are vast, and expecting things to change in-game to match every individual's inclinations is unrealistic, to say the very least.

You can do whatever you like w/in the confines of the game to aid your RP. Asking for cosmetic changes from the devs to suit your RP, however, seems like a bit much.

I could, for example, RP a Bosmeri who shapeshifts into a panda, and prefers to keep that form at all times. It would be a little ridiculous for me to ask the devs to waste their resources on adding playable pandas to the game simply to suit my RP needs.

Teiji wrote: »

Plus, there is no such school as illusion magic? The only entities within this fantasy universe capable of disguising their appearance are Cyrodillic vampires? Even though in several quests in-game there are times you shall disguise your appearance, such as one quest where you make your character look like a male imperial, magically. The one on Aldmeri Dominion side, Reapers March for example, is one, as is one AD side again, in Greenshade.

Sure, there are plenty of disguises. And when you use them, your vampirism doesn't show. Is there some reason you can't use these to suit your RP needs (which I mentioned in my first post)?

Also, the schools of magic as we know them (Illusion, Restoration, Destruction, etc) don't actually exist in that structure, yet. They haven't been organized into school as of this time period.

But yes, of course the magic exists. Just like the ability to charm others or send them into a fit of rage technically does exist, even though we as players don't have this ability.

Honestly, I'd much rather see those types of spells added to the game LONG before something like vampires who can disguise themselves as ordinary citizens is added.

After all, new spells effect a MUCH larger population than just vampire players, and even more niche, just the vampire players who have decided they don't like how vampires look in the Elder Scrolls universe.

So in short: You can RP whatever you like, but don't expect devs to change the game to suit your RP story simply because reasons.

The Illusion magic response doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Either ALL vampires, werewolves, daedra, etc have access to masking their appearance (which clearly is not the case in ES lore), or only Cyrodiliic vamps can.

Or are you suggesting that we eschew all established lore because, y'know, a subsect of a subsect of players doesn't like how vamps have pretty much always worked in Elder Scrolls?

MornaBaine · September 2014

Vizier wrote: »

DagothMacellarius wrote: »

No need to cure. People just want the option. Believe it or not these threads are ideas, not demands on ZoS. Shocker, I know.

Oh, I think from the OP's perspective it's a demand and from her perspective a justifiable demand since from her perspective there is no good reason to deny her wants, desires, fancies and musings.

I cannot DEMAND anything from ZoS. I CAN, however, inform them as to what sort of things would enhance my enjoyment, something they have invited ALL their players to do. Of those MANY ideas and requests they will decide which ones to implement and which ones not to. All I can do is present my case, which I will continue to do, even in the face of towering idiocy, smugness, and mindless hatred. Carry on. I certainly will.

MornaBaine · September 2014

Vizier wrote: »

It's official-

This thread is a LOLipop used for SUCKing.

MornaBaine wrote: »

Aevric wrote: »

DagothMacellarius wrote: »

No need to cure. People just want the option. Believe it or not these threads are ideas, not demands on ZoS. Shocker, I know.

Looking at the tone of those posing these "ideas" and their bashing of common sense responses, I beg to differ.

I've yet to see a "common sense" objection to this. ALL objections thus far are as follows.

1. I don't like Bat Swarm so if there's something about playing a vampire that players don't like I think they should be forced to suffer with it because then maybe less people will play vampires. And since I don't like Bat Swarm I want less people to play vampires.

I think this is the number one "argument" and may be the silliest. Vampires are part of the game and pretty much always have been, which is why players made a strong push for their inclusion in this MMO. Now if you have a problem with the skill line and feel it needs to be changed, you are perfectly at liberty to post on threads where that is the topic and argue your case for change.

2. I don't like vampires in general because of certain pop culture versions of them so I don't really want people to play them at all.

The fact that you don't like Twilight (and, if so, I certainly don't blame you as I don't like it either) has absolutely nothing to do with the vampires in this game. Constantly characterizing those who play vampires as angsty teenagers who don't understand anything about "real" (yes someone actually told me REAL vampires are ugly and I darn near fell out of my chair laughing!) vampires or even about vampires as part of ESO lore is not only completely false in most cases but is also needlessly insulting and antagonistic. It has nothing to do with the topic at hand and does not belong in this thread at all. It's just a childish attempt to derail and distract in the absence of a better argument.

3. In PvP I want to be able to tell who the vampires are on sight because I think this gives me an advantage over them.

This perceived advantage is easily negated by wearing any of the widely available armors that completely cover the head and all skin. And THAT "fix" is just as easily negated by using an add-on that allows you to identify vampires regardless of what they are wearing. So this particular argument makes absolutely no sense at all.

4. I think vampires are OP and because I am angry about this I am going to disagree with anything someone who plays vampires wants.

Yes, I've also seen this argument, in pretty much those words, over and over again. Do I really need to point out how foolish it is? It is nothing more than an emotional knee-jerk reaction and merits no consideration whatsoever. Yet certain people keep wasting my time with it.

5. I think vampires are working as intended and so I don't think players who play them have any right to ask ZoS to make ANY changes to them.

This one makes no sense either. ALL players have the right to make requests for changes to ANY class, race, or skill line, or indeed to the game in general. And the same people who keep trying to make this argument do not hesitate at all to request changes to any part of the game THEY don't like and often do. So the reek of hypocrisy here is pretty strong.

6. I think the way vampires look brings some sort of balance to their Ultimate ability.

So vampires have one (in your opinion) OP ability and you feel it helps "balance" that by making vampires unenjoyable to play to a certain segment of the playerbase. I can pretty much guarantee you that the people destroying you in PvP on their vampires are NOT among those who give a darn what their characters look like and would never spend a skillpoint or a single gold coin on an item that permitted them to blend into the normal population. The current state of affairs with vampires does not "hurt" anybody but, for the most part, roleplayers, who you seldom encounter in Cyrodil anyway. Not because roleplayers don't PvP (we do) but because, compared to those who pretty much JUST PvP, our numbers are miniscule. So this argument is also invalid.

7. Vampirism in this game is a disease and since it's a disease you have to look diseased.

What a peculiar disease.... one that makes you live forever, stop aging, and renders you immune to all other diseases. Why that sounds almost like...magic. That being the case, there is no logical reason against the idea that there would be those who had discovered equally magical means to hide their "disease" or even that there might be strains of it that do not show the physical side of it in order to render vampires more efficient predators. In a world so heavily drenched in magic, literally anything is possible. I have been bashed again and again for daring to apply logic to the topic of vampirism and yet again and again I am also faced by those who continue to insist that because vampirism is a disease it must follow certain rules, completely ignoring the presence of magic in this setting.

The other thing I have noticed is that the vast majority of those against this request are against it for reasons having to do with PvP. Well, I realize this may be difficult for some to swallow, but this game does not actually revolve around PvP. If you think Bat Swarm needs to be hit with the nerf stick and that you should be able to see a vampire coming a mile away you are at liberty to request that from ZoS. Maybe they'll even give vampires a bright neon red glow the moment they enter Cyrodil. You'll undoubtedly get lots of push back from PvPers who play vampires but you are certainly at liberty to bring the topic up to ZoS.

There, did I miss anything? Didn't think so.

Yes. Your forgot to mention those objecting because; they plainly see your blind attachment to your ideals regarding vampires; your extremely privileged notion that it's up to us to prove you shouldn't have something rather then your needto prove why you should have something (as it's not in game the later is incumbent upon you.); your apparent belief ZOS is somehow beholden to you to provide for you your fantastical notions of vampirism; because in your world there is not enough room for disagreement on what the fictitious concept of vampirism means; your blatantly disregard of those who's preferences are not in accordance with yours since you obviously believe your preferences superior to theirs that love the current status quo and because we and ZoS owe you consideration in all things for that is your will AND ; of those that finally grew tired of your attitude and decided it was better to see you squirm over this issue than attempt to engage further in meaningful dialog.

Did I miss something? I don't believe I did.

That which harms no one, should, of course, be allowed. Does that mean ZoS HAS to do it? No. What it does mean is that there is no reason for players to oppose it. The burden of proof that my request WOULD harm other players IS indeed, on you and those who oppose my proposed changes. If you want to "outlaw" something and forbid it to others, it is up to you to PROVE that it is indeed harmful to others. Thus far, no one has been able to do that.