Samadhi wrote: »

Tootall2186 wrote: »

...
Actually... The definition of sneak is = to move quietly and secretly to avoid detection.

Sneaking does not imply moving slowly, Just quietly.

...

Just as a bit of an aside from the topic, I'm rather fond of The Philosophy of Stealth book that appears in game.

I like how it refers to Stealth as a matter of being not-seen by means of going unnoticed in plain view.

It may seems obvious, but the key to practical invisibility is to be not-seen. What does it mean to not-seen? Let us turn this around and ask: what does it mean to be seen?

To be seen means that the visible object has somehow attracted the attention of the viewer. Most of the time, you can count on a target's vision to slide across nineteen out of twenty objects without really seeing them, because to the target they simply make up part of the general background of his or her surroundings.

To be not-seen, you must become part of this general background. Lose your individuality and become an integral part of your surroundings. In this way, you may wear the cloak of shadows even upon the salt flats at noon.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:The_Philosophy_of_Stealth

If something moves at horse-speed while crouching, i'd immediately notice it tho.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

The whole thing is insulting and further decays my faith in ZOS. I am edging towards quitting but I have said that before.

I suppose when I actually want to quit I won't say anything, I will just leave.

Not sure why ZOS feels a need to change this, i thought its was fun and doesnt effect combat at all ... horses and bolt escaping sorc can cover distance faster so it cant effect PVP .... tooltip on Night Silence says "increase sneak speed by 60%" not "allows player to sneak at run speeds" so its not a bug its a poor design change because it removes a huge fun factor .... something ESO needs. The only complaint i have seen or heard is one thread where OP falsely claims its makes people sneak faster than sprinting horses. Me, i am vamp/sorc sometimes wearing "night silence" just for fun and laughs and it helps gather mats. I have run around and cant outrun any horse sprinting .... maybe in Level 45 riften where i craft there arent any slow horses. Also bolt escape is way faster and i can sustain it with equalibrium. Still my 33 speed upgraded horse is the fastests.... i often race a given distance around outer edge of riften for laughs and my horse sprinting is only way to complete that in under 30 secs.

I played Skyrim and Oblivian for years after they were released not because they had great storys or fun combat but each allowed some builds that had some weakness but where different and fun. In Oblivion i had speed & acrobatics maxed and would spend hours jumping atop buildings in the imperial city. In Oblivion i never have horse so cant comment on running vs horses , that didnt appeal to me .... in skyrim after dawn guard i tried a vampire build and that was fun (was a day walker whom was immune to sunlight and fire just wearing a few minor enchants, so yes vampires have all ways day walked in ES worlds and i agree they should be weaker with out feeding but ES has allways screwed them up ). In skyrim, i had shout like bolt escape and a decreased shout cool down so i was about as fast as a normal horse sustanined speed (not shadowmere). Also in Skyrim no horse had infinite stamina . Duel weld was so OP in skyrim, that it was fun if one could make two powerful swords. And Adding followers and moding ur game in general was fun. Removing this is just removing one of the FEW FUN ITEMS in ESO. And it was a stamina perk too which helps the weakest class NB mainly, a 5 piece with all stamina perks is huge debuff for any magicka based player like me .... there are all ready enough magicka pluses i just cant understand why ZOS feels they need to change this and why they need call it a bug vs admitting they changed there design goals for speed.

As far as PVE and PVP combat night silence makes me MUCH MUCH weaker, I would be a fool to wear it PVP.... its just something fun to wear in pve. My be if ur stamina based you might but i am magicka based.

i doubt i will quit, but on the other hand, i haven't done anything but log in once a day for week to do crafting chores since i heard this is supposedly a "BUG". Not sure why this bugs me so much ... i spent about 3 Kutas on the armor so thats peanuts but it just make me feel like ZOS has no clue how to balance this game ... how to add new features and is flying by the seat of there pants with every change reactionary not planned. Things that bother me: I have researched every thing i am interested to 8 traits but 8 trait armor is more less equivelent to 4 trait armor so that was waste of time. What time i have spent crafting is being nerfed now coz complaints. I cant join any new guilds because we are limited to 5, i need 3 to sell crafted items since theres no Auction house, the 4th guild has occasionally a hope of grouping .. the 5th is the only teamspeak guild i am in ...... the releases were 2 to 1 bad after 1.3 so there was hope, now the releases after 1.4 are 3:1 bad so i must assume the game will get worse. I fall two more levels behind everyone so PVP is out the question again. Release 1.3 offered me the dyes i enjoyed, and made me enjoy ESO again and feel the future was positve, espeically after quakecon hype. Release 1.1, Release 1.2 and looks like Release 1.4 are just downgrades for me since grouping is so hard craighorn arenas are all meaningless to me. I am only learning PVP, was haveing some fun at VR5 but now i need to go against VR14 people.

I am stupid to pay money for a game that gets worse and worse but i probably will. All my friends have left but i blindly stick it out hoping something fun is in the next release. Also every major release, either on PTS or LIVE, messes up all my Addons so not looking forward to any thing NEW in ESO till new solo content. Most of there changes are driven by god knows what, 1 good change for every 5 bad ones. I am Whining a bit i know but this makes me wonder who is running the show when i see resources spent fixing non exsistant bugs with all the bugs in this game.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

The mechanics of sneak speed are as follows:

Normal run speed = 250 units per second. All sneaking and other movement speed modifications are multiplied off of this number.

-Sneaking applies a 40% movement speed reduction, or acts as a 0.6x multiplier, for a 160 units per second speed in sneak.
-Vampirism cancels the sneak speed penalty automatically for a 250 units per second speed in sneak.
-Shadow Dancer cancels the sneak speed penalty automatically for a 250 units per second speed in sneak.
-Concealed Weapons adds 25%, or acts as a 1.25x multiplier of your current base sneak speed.
-Night's Silence adds 60%, or acts as a 1.6x multiplier of your current base sneak speed.

Given said mechanics (verified through manual testing and addons that can show through your movement speed normalized by zone in units per second), how is this a bug or other unintended effect? The patch notes for v1.4.2 word it as a "bug" that they are multiplying but everything in the game has always multiplied since beta in this fashion and is the basic game mechanic of sneak and its movement speed, in fact ALL movement speeds in the entire game including mounting, snares, and sprint work in this multiplicative fashion (sprint is 30%, for example, or acts as a 1.3x multiplier).

Thank you for this.
So, if I understand you correctly, a Vampire NB (with the sneak penalty cancellation passive) wearing Night's Silence and using Concealed Weapons would have a sneak speed of 500 (250 * 1.6 * 1.25), and there is no other way to achieve that speed.

What is the flight speed of an unladen swallow?

call that a bug was indecent indeed. vote for honest communication

I have to agree with the OP in that "fixing an issue" = "fixing a bug". A problem is a problem is a problem. Devs are Americans, right? We Americans have this horrible habit of sugar coating everything, which causes great confusion when interacting with some other cultures.

Braddass wrote: »

Whether they call it a issue, a bug, an unintended consequence, or even a mistake ... it doesn't alter the fact that it needed to be addressed.

Please read some of the previous post on what the actual speed improvements are, they are small for any class but vamp nightblade. If the Nightblade is LA & stick, they are losing some great magicka bonuses just to move fast outside combat.......... If they are Stam build and use any of the Night Silence bonuses, my opinion is thats is a sub optimal build which needs any buff it can get. That is why i say this is doesnt need to be addressed.

Furthermore, it doesnt need to addressed anymore than sores in light can spam spells indefinitely or DK in light owns everyone or Horses can run infinity or emperors can stack ridicules amounts of ultimate's or templars are nearly impossible to kill or ............... ect.

Anyway, i will say again it doesnt effect me much but was fun to use. I dont why Devs waste time removing one of the few things fun in this game.

zos forgets that their player base isnt all made up of mindless sheeple. some people are capable of figuring them out. good job

Samadhi wrote: »

The set increases Sneak speed by 60% of the Sneak speed value.
This brings a regular human up to 96% of regular running speed while sneaking.
The 36% increase is the result of calculating based on the base human sneak speed.

Vampire and Shadow Dancer's Raiment set remove Sneak speed penalty.
These two bonuses each allow a player to sneak at 100% of regular running speed while sneaking.

Interesting. I assumed that they copied the code from one of the other's, and just fouled up on the description.

Normally, I would vote for making it match. However, given the track record here, I'll be happy if they just don't break anything while coding it to not stack.