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WHY the stacking of dark stalker and nights silence issue is serious.
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Kypho✭✭✭✭rophez_ESO wrote: »Actually, the complaints were about being able to SNEAK as fast as most horses can run. It's just kinda absurd. I have no problem with them putting in some awesome set bonus for stealthers, like being able to enter sneak while in combat if you roll or something. They just need to be more creative.
ye cos that wouldnt affect comabt at all eh, NB's could roll to get stealth and pop another big crit.
how could you think that would be ok but moving fast OUT OF COMBAT ONLY seems to make you think its insane?
NB has ... umm.... look at OPlars and DK and sorc.... so NB has almost ZERO defense. cloak is bugged, and small time crap.... at least they had something...3 -
Kypho✭✭✭✭Stop crying already, cast retreating maneuver and drink a speed potion, you're still fast with either Dark Stalker or Night's Silence.
In fact, i'm glad i can get my ugly vampirism cured now.
You wont cure if you doing pvp. the OP ulti the swarm, the dmg resist passive, the recovery passive etc... you wont give up the OP CRAP...2 -
butterfly442✭✭✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »@hamon , I pointed out the inconsistency on ZOS' part regarding this here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/130476/why-is-night-s-silence-being-called-a-bug-in-the-patch-notes-werewolves-being-unable-to-cc-break as well. Needless to say, I agree. I would bet just about anything it is another kneejerk reaction just like the API nerfs prelaunch, gutting of stock UI features, and some balance changes that have been made in general, to forum whining.
I sincerely doubt they suddenly decided that the way they were going about calculating movement speed mechanics in the game was broken and needed to be "fixed" therefore as the patch note and CM posts imply. What actually happened, I'd personally assume, is that they saw forum complaints making a big ruckus over what most regard in-game as a non-issue or a beneficial feature, and nerfed it to try to quell the negative forum activity.
yes this is the point. Ive utterly lost respect for zos and i,ll be cancelling my sub over this .
It's about fairness and consistency. It's like in sport referrees can differ in how tough or lenient they are from match to match as a football fan this is normal.
What upsets fans is when they arn't consistent
if they give a yellow card for one type of tackle they need to keep doing the same for the whole match.
Same when i watched baseball , if they have set a small strike zone thats fine as long as its the same strike zone for both teams.
which is why they cannot decide moving at that pace is suddenly a "bug" if that pace is achieved through means of dark stalker and NS set.
but if its ahcieved through Bolt escape its completely acceptable. even tho bolt escape is completely limited to one class, requires no sacrifice in terms of comabt effectiveness, and has potent combat use as well.
its a sick joke and iv,e had it with ZOS over this blatant unfairness.
You wrote to much. You will not be canceling.
1 -
hamon✭✭✭✭✭
✭butterfly442 wrote: »Attorneyatlawl wrote: »@hamon , I pointed out the inconsistency on ZOS' part regarding this here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/130476/why-is-night-s-silence-being-called-a-bug-in-the-patch-notes-werewolves-being-unable-to-cc-break as well. Needless to say, I agree. I would bet just about anything it is another kneejerk reaction just like the API nerfs prelaunch, gutting of stock UI features, and some balance changes that have been made in general, to forum whining.
I sincerely doubt they suddenly decided that the way they were going about calculating movement speed mechanics in the game was broken and needed to be "fixed" therefore as the patch note and CM posts imply. What actually happened, I'd personally assume, is that they saw forum complaints making a big ruckus over what most regard in-game as a non-issue or a beneficial feature, and nerfed it to try to quell the negative forum activity.
yes this is the point. Ive utterly lost respect for zos and i,ll be cancelling my sub over this .
It's about fairness and consistency. It's like in sport referrees can differ in how tough or lenient they are from match to match as a football fan this is normal.
What upsets fans is when they arn't consistent
if they give a yellow card for one type of tackle they need to keep doing the same for the whole match.
Same when i watched baseball , if they have set a small strike zone thats fine as long as its the same strike zone for both teams.
which is why they cannot decide moving at that pace is suddenly a "bug" if that pace is achieved through means of dark stalker and NS set.
but if its ahcieved through Bolt escape its completely acceptable. even tho bolt escape is completely limited to one class, requires no sacrifice in terms of comabt effectiveness, and has potent combat use as well.
its a sick joke and iv,e had it with ZOS over this blatant unfairness.
You wrote to much. You will not be canceling.
i already have but my 3 month sub got renewed about a month ago so i,m stuck with 2 months. but rest assured if this goes live it,ll be the last money they see from me.
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Darkonflare15✭✭✭✭✭rophez_ESO wrote: »Actually, the complaints were about being able to SNEAK as fast as most horses can run. It's just kinda absurd. I have no problem with them putting in some awesome set bonus for stealthers, like being able to enter sneak while in combat if you roll or something. They just need to be more creative.
ye cos that wouldnt affect comabt at all eh, NB's could roll to get stealth and pop another big crit.
how could you think that would be ok but moving fast OUT OF COMBAT ONLY seems to make you think its insane?
NB has ... umm.... look at OPlars and DK and sorc.... so NB has almost ZERO defense. cloak is bugged, and small time crap.... at least they had something...
Umm...
I can get speed boosts from
43% using potions speed boost when running and sneaking
25% using concealed weapon only sneaking.
60% using night silence set only sneaking.
50% movement speed from Path of darness.
All this while sneaking. Not a vampire.
This nerf only prevents people from using two different armor sets with the vampire perk. This is all. It is not a nerf to night blades. You still have multiple ways to raise your speed if your a night blade. The 43% speed potions is only possible because I get 30% potion effectiveness from what a night blade passive.
You can still use speed potions, concealed weapon and path of darkness and Night silence set for Nightblade medium armor users.
You can still use potions concealed weapon and path of darkness and Shadow Dancer’s Raiment for Night blade light armor users.
and for Nightblade Vampires you can still use speed potions, concealed weapon and path of darkness and your perk.
You can have 30% speed potion if you not a nighblade
34% if your not a nightblade and you are using the racial skills from Argonians
39% if your just a night blade
43% if your a nightblade and a Argonian if you have points in the passives.
So night blades are not being nerf.Edited by Darkonflare15 on September 7, 2014 10:58PM3 -
Luvsfuzzybunnies✭✭✭Well it may have not cost the player any money but it will now require that player to have to replace those materials to make a new set. Meaning they will have less of a pool of resources than the player who went with another set. It is unfair and should be refunded. I havent sen any other set changed to something that completely doesnt work for a build that is using it. There were some nerfed of course but this becomes useless for any vampires.
Cure vampire problem solved much cheaper alternative. Yeah you'll lose some regen and gain some but your speed will be maxed and you won't have those pesky vampire drawbacks (lol) everyone says are so bad.Jukette VR12 DC Nightblade 14 day campaign.
Kitten Kisser VR12 DC Sorcerer 14 day campaign0 -
decado0024_ESO✭✭✭Darkonflare15 wrote: »rophez_ESO wrote: »Actually, the complaints were about being able to SNEAK as fast as most horses can run. It's just kinda absurd. I have no problem with them putting in some awesome set bonus for stealthers, like being able to enter sneak while in combat if you roll or something. They just need to be more creative.
ye cos that wouldnt affect comabt at all eh, NB's could roll to get stealth and pop another big crit.
how could you think that would be ok but moving fast OUT OF COMBAT ONLY seems to make you think its insane?
NB has ... umm.... look at OPlars and DK and sorc.... so NB has almost ZERO defense. cloak is bugged, and small time crap.... at least they had something...
Umm...
I can get speed boosts from
43% using potions speed boost when running and sneaking
25% using concealed weapon only sneaking.
60% using night silence set only sneaking.
50% movement speed from Path of darness.
All this while sneaking. Not a vampire.
This nerf only prevents people from using two different armor sets with the vampire perk. This is all. It is not a nerf to night blades. You still have multiple ways to raise your speed if your a night blade. The 43% speed potions is only possible because I get 30% potion effectiveness from what a night blade passive.
You can still use speed potions, concealed weapon and path of darkness and Night silence set for Nightblade medium armor users.
You can still use potions concealed weapon and path of darkness and Shadow Dancer’s Raiment for Night blade light armor users.
and for Nightblade Vampires you can still use speed potions, concealed weapon and path of darkness and your perk.
You can have 30% speed potion if you not a nighblade
34% if your not a nightblade and you are using the racial skills from Argonians
39% if your just a night blade
43% if your a nightblade and a Argonian if you have points in the passives.
So night blades are not being nerf.
Ya so not only are u wrong but u completely missed the point of the outrage. so let me recap for u. point 1. This set was fixed in the near past and was actually such a concern that devs were asked if it was working right and they said yes. point 2. the nights silence set only gives u stam stam rec and 4% crit with a speed boost if u are stealthed and out of combat, making it just about crap in a fight. the trade off is yea u move really fast but if u engage a target with it on ur going to get smacked around if the target is remotely talented.Not op def a fair trade off. point 3. the fact that this was such a concern over serious issues in the game like streak ignoring cc imunity, dks dragonleaping up onto top floors of keeps and dark cloak still not working correctly is offensive. and my own little question for everyone "what are u going to do when its one of your sets about to get chopped? everyone wants to sit back and say qq nbs and make no sense but this will set precedence. that means that all it is gonna take is a few trolls to get on and say if out of combat speed cant stack with vampirism nothing can. and say good bye to all the sorcs and dks sucking down the regen from supernatural recovery and warlocks and all the other crap that they were to give them unlimiyed pools.D'ecado V12 Nightblade
Decado rahl v12 Dk
Officer of TKO5 -
Darkonflare15✭✭✭✭✭decado0024_ESO wrote: »Darkonflare15 wrote: »rophez_ESO wrote: »Actually, the complaints were about being able to SNEAK as fast as most horses can run. It's just kinda absurd. I have no problem with them putting in some awesome set bonus for stealthers, like being able to enter sneak while in combat if you roll or something. They just need to be more creative.
ye cos that wouldnt affect comabt at all eh, NB's could roll to get stealth and pop another big crit.
how could you think that would be ok but moving fast OUT OF COMBAT ONLY seems to make you think its insane?
NB has ... umm.... look at OPlars and DK and sorc.... so NB has almost ZERO defense. cloak is bugged, and small time crap.... at least they had something...
Umm...
I can get speed boosts from
43% using potions speed boost when running and sneaking
25% using concealed weapon only sneaking.
60% using night silence set only sneaking.
50% movement speed from Path of darness.
All this while sneaking. Not a vampire.
This nerf only prevents people from using two different armor sets with the vampire perk. This is all. It is not a nerf to night blades. You still have multiple ways to raise your speed if your a night blade. The 43% speed potions is only possible because I get 30% potion effectiveness from what a night blade passive.
You can still use speed potions, concealed weapon and path of darkness and Night silence set for Nightblade medium armor users.
You can still use potions concealed weapon and path of darkness and Shadow Dancer’s Raiment for Night blade light armor users.
and for Nightblade Vampires you can still use speed potions, concealed weapon and path of darkness and your perk.
You can have 30% speed potion if you not a nighblade
34% if your not a nightblade and you are using the racial skills from Argonians
39% if your just a night blade
43% if your a nightblade and a Argonian if you have points in the passives.
So night blades are not being nerf.
Ya so not only are u wrong but u completely missed the point of the outrage. so let me recap for u. point 1. This set was fixed in the near past and was actually such a concern that devs were asked if it was working right and they said yes. point 2. the nights silence set only gives u stam stam rec and 4% crit with a speed boost if u are stealthed and out of combat, making it just about crap in a fight. the trade off is yea u move really fast but if u engage a target with it on ur going to get smacked around if the target is remotely talented.Not op def a fair trade off. point 3. the fact that this was such a concern over serious issues in the game like streak ignoring cc imunity, dks dragonleaping up onto top floors of keeps and dark cloak still not working correctly is offensive. and my own little question for everyone "what are u going to do when its one of your sets about to get chopped? everyone wants to sit back and say qq nbs and make no sense but this will set precedence. that means that all it is gonna take is a few trolls to get on and say if out of combat speed cant stack with vampirism nothing can. and say good bye to all the sorcs and dks sucking down the regen from supernatural recovery and warlocks and all the other crap that they were to give them unlimiyed pools.
No you do not seem to understand what I was saying. What I am saying is the set did not get "chopped" all it did was prevent the speed boost form working with the vampire boost. Now you can supplement this speed boost with other things if you really want to catch a bolt escape sorcerers. Yes i know that night blades are not getting easy skills like sorcerers and dks and the fact that they fix this before fixing the other problems is annoying but it is no point in crying and moaning about this and discouraging other place with your complaining that is equally as annoying as this problem.4 -
Iorail✭✭✭✭Darkonflare15 wrote: »decado0024_ESO wrote: »Darkonflare15 wrote: »rophez_ESO wrote: »Actually, the complaints were about being able to SNEAK as fast as most horses can run. It's just kinda absurd. I have no problem with them putting in some awesome set bonus for stealthers, like being able to enter sneak while in combat if you roll or something. They just need to be more creative.
ye cos that wouldnt affect comabt at all eh, NB's could roll to get stealth and pop another big crit.
how could you think that would be ok but moving fast OUT OF COMBAT ONLY seems to make you think its insane?
NB has ... umm.... look at OPlars and DK and sorc.... so NB has almost ZERO defense. cloak is bugged, and small time crap.... at least they had something...
Umm...
I can get speed boosts from
43% using potions speed boost when running and sneaking
25% using concealed weapon only sneaking.
60% using night silence set only sneaking.
50% movement speed from Path of darness.
All this while sneaking. Not a vampire.
This nerf only prevents people from using two different armor sets with the vampire perk. This is all. It is not a nerf to night blades. You still have multiple ways to raise your speed if your a night blade. The 43% speed potions is only possible because I get 30% potion effectiveness from what a night blade passive.
You can still use speed potions, concealed weapon and path of darkness and Night silence set for Nightblade medium armor users.
You can still use potions concealed weapon and path of darkness and Shadow Dancer’s Raiment for Night blade light armor users.
and for Nightblade Vampires you can still use speed potions, concealed weapon and path of darkness and your perk.
You can have 30% speed potion if you not a nighblade
34% if your not a nightblade and you are using the racial skills from Argonians
39% if your just a night blade
43% if your a nightblade and a Argonian if you have points in the passives.
So night blades are not being nerf.
Ya so not only are u wrong but u completely missed the point of the outrage. so let me recap for u. point 1. This set was fixed in the near past and was actually such a concern that devs were asked if it was working right and they said yes. point 2. the nights silence set only gives u stam stam rec and 4% crit with a speed boost if u are stealthed and out of combat, making it just about crap in a fight. the trade off is yea u move really fast but if u engage a target with it on ur going to get smacked around if the target is remotely talented.Not op def a fair trade off. point 3. the fact that this was such a concern over serious issues in the game like streak ignoring cc imunity, dks dragonleaping up onto top floors of keeps and dark cloak still not working correctly is offensive. and my own little question for everyone "what are u going to do when its one of your sets about to get chopped? everyone wants to sit back and say qq nbs and make no sense but this will set precedence. that means that all it is gonna take is a few trolls to get on and say if out of combat speed cant stack with vampirism nothing can. and say good bye to all the sorcs and dks sucking down the regen from supernatural recovery and warlocks and all the other crap that they were to give them unlimiyed pools.
No you do not seem to understand what I was saying. What I am saying is the set did not get "chopped" all it did was prevent the speed boost form working with the vampire boost. Now you can supplement this speed boost with other things if you really want to catch a bolt escape sorcerers. Yes i know that night blades are not getting easy skills like sorcerers and dks and the fact that they fix this before fixing the other problems is annoying but it is no point in crying and moaning about this and discouraging other place with your complaining that is equally as annoying as this problem.
The part YOU don't understand is the precedent this change is going to start, cause you really think this will be the last time this will happened? And btw, stop talking about NB skills as you know nothing on how they work.
All this change is going to do is get people to moan even more and get other passives/sets stacking nerf, do you understand that?
Hell, I may start a thread on how you can use 5 pieces of 2 different light armor sets to get both 5pcs bonuses while stacking that with jewelry and world/racial/guild passives to reduce the cost of spells to almost nothing. And all of this while holding block and blocking with a shield 360 degrees at the same time they are spamming AoE spells and ultimates while never running out of magicka. And if the situation gets tuff, hell, let me pop an invisible no cd pot follow by a 3 stat pot and be practically immortal. How about they fix that imbalance....
Let's talk about that instead. It's not about the stacking of one trivial sneak speed buff anymore, let's include all the OP combinations out there.Edited by Iorail on September 8, 2014 4:48AM2 -
Braddass✭✭✭This is not a NB nerf. This is a Vampire nerf. There should be many more Vampire nerfs.
Buff NBs + nerf Vampires = problem solved.Edited by Braddass on September 8, 2014 10:57AM3 -
Dekkameron✭✭✭✭✭I thought the issue was that combined with vampire passives is was too stronk WHILST mixing nights silence and dark stalker and they were just going to stop vamp passives stacking with it.- Veteran Combat Librarian -0 -
Luvsfuzzybunnies✭✭✭Let's get one thing straight this is not a nerf to nightblades and not even a nerf to a set. This is a correction of an oversight no matter how many times you ask the devs. They may have in fact told you it was working as intended but never said for how long it would work this way. It had not gone live just yet they were obviously lazy and ignorant when people asked about it. Running horse speed in stealth should never have been something any rational player expected from any class. The devs have in fact posted in a large public forum before they implement the change as they said they would. If you wanna focus on one part and ignore the other that is fine but the devs have done exactly what they said they would and now you are pissed cause they followed thru on one of their many promises.Jukette VR12 DC Nightblade 14 day campaign.
Kitten Kisser VR12 DC Sorcerer 14 day campaign3 -
demonlkojipub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭ryanmjmcevoy_ESO wrote: »If they didn't refund mats for all the set changes in 1.3 which numerous people demanded, they are not going to refund mats on something they are stating as unintended (at the very least, they are saying this NOW) and fixed.
By the way, they didn't need to refund the materials people demanded for those sets, because they didn't change those sets. The ones you speak of; hist bark, twilight's embrace, and willows path, were altered from their 1.3 changes in 1.3.1 so that the set bonus whether it be the 5 or the 3 set bonus was included in the new set, as requested in player feedback.
Those people WERE demanding their mats back if they went through with the change, which they did not, because they stood to screw over a great number of people who used those sets. They will be doing just that with this set if they go through with those changes.Edited by demonlkojipub19_ESO on September 8, 2014 3:55PM1 -
ryanmjmcevoy_ESO✭✭✭demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »ryanmjmcevoy_ESO wrote: »If they didn't refund mats for all the set changes in 1.3 which numerous people demanded, they are not going to refund mats on something they are stating as unintended (at the very least, they are saying this NOW) and fixed.
By the way, they didn't need to refund the materials people demanded for those sets, because they didn't change those sets. The ones you speak of; hist bark, twilight's embrace, and willows path, were altered from their 1.3 changes in 1.3.1 so that the set bonus whether it be the 5 or the 3 set bonus was included in the new set, as requested in player feedback.
Those people WERE demanding their mats back if they went through with the change, which they did not, because they stood to screw over a great number of people who used those sets. They will be doing just that with this set if they go through with those changes.
It's not a set change though, it's a vampire nerf. They prevented one set bonus from stacking with one passive. That prevents the vamps from moving as quickly as they have been and has no effect on Night's Silence itself as a set, so refunds still should not be expected.1 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ryanmjmcevoy_ESO wrote: »demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »ryanmjmcevoy_ESO wrote: »If they didn't refund mats for all the set changes in 1.3 which numerous people demanded, they are not going to refund mats on something they are stating as unintended (at the very least, they are saying this NOW) and fixed.
By the way, they didn't need to refund the materials people demanded for those sets, because they didn't change those sets. The ones you speak of; hist bark, twilight's embrace, and willows path, were altered from their 1.3 changes in 1.3.1 so that the set bonus whether it be the 5 or the 3 set bonus was included in the new set, as requested in player feedback.
Those people WERE demanding their mats back if they went through with the change, which they did not, because they stood to screw over a great number of people who used those sets. They will be doing just that with this set if they go through with those changes.
It's not a set change though, it's a vampire nerf. They prevented one set bonus from stacking with one passive. That prevents the vamps from moving as quickly as they have been and has no effect on Night's Silence itself as a set, so refunds still should not be expected.
Maybe the vamps should be asking for a 50% refund of the cost of their bite? :-PThe Moot Councillor1 -
demonlkojipub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭ryanmjmcevoy_ESO wrote: »demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »ryanmjmcevoy_ESO wrote: »If they didn't refund mats for all the set changes in 1.3 which numerous people demanded, they are not going to refund mats on something they are stating as unintended (at the very least, they are saying this NOW) and fixed.
By the way, they didn't need to refund the materials people demanded for those sets, because they didn't change those sets. The ones you speak of; hist bark, twilight's embrace, and willows path, were altered from their 1.3 changes in 1.3.1 so that the set bonus whether it be the 5 or the 3 set bonus was included in the new set, as requested in player feedback.
Those people WERE demanding their mats back if they went through with the change, which they did not, because they stood to screw over a great number of people who used those sets. They will be doing just that with this set if they go through with those changes.
It's not a set change though, it's a vampire nerf. They prevented one set bonus from stacking with one passive. That prevents the vamps from moving as quickly as they have been and has no effect on Night's Silence itself as a set, so refunds still should not be expected.
A vampire nerf that makes a set thats already been crafted by lots of people completely useless to them. Its the same deal as that time. Change makes worthless, Mat refund warranted unless set changes to not be worthless.1 -
Dagoth_Rac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PTS is for bugs, not balance. It is very hard to judge balance issues on a low population test server where people play differently than on live. Devs likely thought it was OK on PTS. But after a few weeks of seeing it on Live decided it was overpowered. You can argue that it is *not* overpowered and this is a stupid nerf. But the idea that overpowered/underpowered/just-right is decided on PTS? No.0 -
demonlkojipub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭No things just got ignored on the PTS, up until update 4 where they apparently started stepping up their testing game. There were multiple threads about night silence there, and while it was still not live multiple threads about night silence on live forums. Most ignored, some instances of working as intended from the PTS side.1
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Xanthro✭✭✭rophez_ESO wrote: »its about a complete U turn on a set that went live 3 weeks ago after full scrutiny by ZOS and is WORKING AS INTENDED by them at that time.
I've seen several of the pro-superspeed stealth crowd mention this. I've yet to actually see a quote from a dev saying that the vamp stealth penalty negation was supposed to stack with stealth penalty bonuses.
What is 1 * 1.6 *1.25? Do you really need someone to explain basic math to you?
See, if you are a vampire, your stealth speed is exactly the same as your non stealth speed. The set bonus give 1.6 times speed bonus, it's not a reduction of stealth penalty, and concealed weapon is 1.25.
Math is math. It was apparent before the change went live of test that a NB, vampire with the set would be moving very fast.
2