Why is Night's Silence being called a "bug" in the patch notes? Werewolves being unable to cc-break?

Attorneyatlawl · September 2014

Night's Silence movement speed is not a unique "bug", nor is CC-break "not working" on werewolves.

I very much dislike seeing that the community letter on werewolves, and the recent patch notes on movement speed mechanics, are misleading at best, and do not adequately explain that they are actually balance changes rather than "bug fixes". This is a bad road to see the team using with the community in my opinion. I'm sure this isn't intended in a malicious fashion, in fact quite the contrary, but things have to be checked before you post them or the playerbase will learn not to take things said very seriously. Below is my proof as to why the recent statements are wrong.

The mechanics of sneak speed are as follows:

Normal run speed = 250 units per second. All sneaking and other movement speed modifications are multiplied off of this number.

-Sneaking applies a 40% movement speed reduction, or acts as a 0.6x multiplier, for a 160 units per second speed in sneak.
-Vampirism cancels the sneak speed penalty automatically for a 250 units per second speed in sneak.
-Shadow Dancer cancels the sneak speed penalty automatically for a 250 units per second speed in sneak.
-Concealed Weapons adds 25%, or acts as a 1.25x multiplier of your current base sneak speed.
-Night's Silence adds 60%, or acts as a 1.6x multiplier of your current base sneak speed.

Given said mechanics (verified through manual testing and addons that can show through your movement speed normalized by zone in units per second), how is this a bug or other unintended effect? The patch notes for v1.4.2 word it as a "bug" that they are multiplying but everything in the game has always multiplied since beta in this fashion and is the basic game mechanic of sneak and its movement speed, in fact ALL movement speeds in the entire game including mounting, snares, and sprint work in this multiplicative fashion (sprint is 30%, for example, or acts as a 1.3x multiplier).

It sounds like, from this end of things and in my personal opinion, that this v1.4.2 change is a reactionary and unjustified nerf based on a handful of forum complaints being phrased as a "bug" to mitigate the consequences of the decision in the community. It is going down a poor design path of limiting bonuses arbitrarily that stack as designed instead of simply addressing the balance in the first place, and adds a lot of convolution to the gameplay. In the end, please be up-front with balance decisions when they are made, and let the chips fall where they may. People can't actually discuss things when the facts aren't being presented openly and correctly

. Be accurate with statements and give everyone the facts.

Same goes for werewolves and the "bug fix" to allow them to CC break. The game data has never shown it as an active ability allowed in werewolf form per ESOhead's data scraping in a live patch, and it has not been doable as a werewolf since the very first beta they were added in. Why call it a "bug" when it was very obviously a balance decision at the time? It's surely an honest mistake, but these kinds of things need to be fact-checked prior to being posted in an official fashion or you will quickly lose the trust of the playerbase when discussing game mechanics. This is meant as constructive feedback and not meant in a negative way, but I wanted to correct the information I've seen both from the handful of CM team posts about the issue and other players.

rophez_ESO · September 2014

The Vampirism passive doesn't give you a bonus to sneak speed, it cancels the movement penalty.

Shadow Dancer also cancels the movement penalty. Are you saying it makes sense for the movement penalty to cancel twice?

Night Silence is meant to reduce the movement penalty by 60%. How can you reduce the penalty if the passive from Vampirism has already cancelled it out?

Clearly the devs were careless in their original implementation, but it makes sense the way they are fixing it. Do you really think they meant for people to be like, "Oh yeah, I need to hustle over to that keep, let me stealth and run faster than I can sprint in the open!"

Edit: Attorneyatlawl - I usually agree with your posts, because you make really good points. I understand that it's FUN to move fast like this, and I hope they do add some sets/buffs/potions that allow us to get around faster. I just think it probably shouldn't be done via sneaking. It's only my opinion, but it seems that the devs might have a similar mindset.

Attorneyatlawl · September 2014

rophez_ESO wrote: »

The Vampirism passive doesn't give you a bonus to sneak speed, it cancels the movement penalty.

Shadow Dancer also cancels the movement penalty. Are you saying it makes sense for the movement penalty to cancel twice?

Night Silence is meant to reduce the movement penalty by 60%. How can you reduce the penalty if the passive from Vampirism has already cancelled it out?

Clearly the devs were careless in their original implementation, but it makes sense the way they are fixing it. Do you really think they meant for people to be like, "Oh yeah, I need to hustle over to that keep, let me stealth and run faster than I can sprint in the open!"

The actual balance question isn't really what this post or thread is about. However I don't understand the point of quoting me for the first two lines nearly verbatim? I was listing two things that cancel the stealth speed movement penalty independently of eachother. I can't speak as to their design intent as I am not a ZOS team member

.

rophez_ESO · September 2014

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

The actual balance question isn't really what this post or thread is about. However I don't understand the point of quoting me for the first two lines nearly verbatim? I was listing two things that cancel the stealth speed movement penalty independently of eachother. I can't speak as to their design intent as I am not a ZOS team member .

Aren't you speaking for the dev's intent, though? You're implying a level of duplicity in the patch notes that I don't think is there. I don't think they ever intended for this stacking of stealth to occur. Is it sloppiness? A bug? A design oversight? ZOS called it an "issue" in the notes, btw, not a bug.

Fixed an issue where you could stack the Dark Stalker passive with the Night’s Silence or Shadow Dancer’s Raiment item sets to move at mount speed. This is no longer possible—you get the bonus from either Dark Stalker or Night’s Silence or Shadow Dancer’s Raiment.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

The patch notes for v1.4.2 word it as a "bug" ...

Attorneyatlawl · September 2014

rophez_ESO wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

The actual balance question isn't really what this post or thread is about. However I don't understand the point of quoting me for the first two lines nearly verbatim? I was listing two things that cancel the stealth speed movement penalty independently of eachother. I can't speak as to their design intent as I am not a ZOS team member .

Aren't you speaking for the dev's intent, though? You're implying a level of duplicity in the patch notes that I don't think is there.

No, actually, I made great pains to ensure it does not say that, and additionally included these two statements to make it crystal clear:

" It's surely an honest mistake, but these kinds of things need to be fact-checked prior to being posted"

"I'm sure this isn't intended in a malicious fashion, in fact quite the contrary"

How you got "the devs are lying purposefully" from those two statements is a mystery to me.

Attorneyatlawl · September 2014

rophez_ESO wrote: »

Is it sloppiness? A bug? A design oversight? ZOS called it an "issue" in the notes, btw, not a bug.

Fixed an issue where you could stack the Dark Stalker passive with the Night’s Silence or Shadow Dancer’s Raiment item sets to move at mount speed. This is no longer possible—you get the bonus from either Dark Stalker or Night’s Silence or Shadow Dancer’s Raiment.

Honestly, I think they likely intended it and are just backing out, but I don't know. Saying "Fixed an issue" is almost identical, and fits with a paraphrase of "correcting a bug", not "changing our design goal".

My point here is just that they need to be more clear about what they are communicating, because it's clearly not a bug. It may have been an oversight, or they may have simply misunderstood what was being changed when posting, or even just have decided it was overpowered and needed nerfing, but that's exactly what I made this thread to point out: the communication simply doesn't appear to be accurate.

Unless every single movement speed in the game is needing to be "fixed", the way the devposts and patchnotes are written state essentially that it is a bugfix, not a design change. When someone says they are "fixing" an "issue" with something, they are saying it was broken, not that they don't like what they had implemented. If they didn't intend it, they should be saying so

.

rophez_ESO wrote: »

Edit: Attorneyatlawl - I usually agree with your posts, because you make really good points. I understand that it's FUN to move fast like this, and I hope they do add some sets/buffs/potions that allow us to get around faster. I just think it probably shouldn't be done via sneaking. It's only my opinion, but it seems that the devs might have a similar mindset.

To address your edit, I do not use night's silence. I don't care if it's fun or not, and while I think it's an unjustified nerf, it will not actually impact me directly in any way. I however do think the way they have communicated their changes regarding it is poor as to the reasoning and implies there was a bug with it specifically, when this isn't the case by how every movement speed modification works in ESO mechanically. I see something funky and assume it is an oversight, so I have pointed that out by making this thread.

Draxuul · September 2014

rophez_ESO wrote: »

The Vampirism passive doesn't give you a bonus to sneak speed, it cancels the movement penalty.

Shadow Dancer also cancels the movement penalty. Are you saying it makes sense for the movement penalty to cancel twice?

Night Silence is meant to reduce the movement penalty by 60%. How can you reduce the penalty if the passive from Vampirism has already cancelled it out?

Clearly the devs were careless in their original implementation, but it makes sense the way they are fixing it. Do you really think they meant for people to be like, "Oh yeah, I need to hustle over to that keep, let me stealth and run faster than I can sprint in the open!"

Edit: Attorneyatlawl - I usually agree with your posts, because you make really good points. I understand that it's FUN to move fast like this, and I hope they do add some sets/buffs/potions that allow us to get around faster. I just think it probably shouldn't be done via sneaking. It's only my opinion, but it seems that the devs might have a similar mindset.

You sir are my hero .

Lol joking of course but i like the way you think. And i`ve read the OP`s post and it seemed to make sense untill i read your post.

I don`t play NB and i don`t play Vampire and i don`t use NS set so i was only here by cuiosity but learning that NB`s can actually prowl faster than they can sprint is very ridiculous lol.

Sneaking is the art of moving slowly and silently to avoid being detected . It is in no way the equivalent of being invisible . So yeah , it wouldn`t make sense at all that someone could move at extreme speeds and still not make a sound and still be able to blend with his surroundings unless he`s using a spell like muffle to reduce the noise and some kinda shadow effect to help mask his silouette.

Anyways all this to say that i agree with your post. And i`m glad ZoS are doing something about it .

Draxuul

whsprwind · September 2014

This post deserves more attention, especially from people at ZOS

I'm not a nightblade neither do i use this set so i'm not concerned about the set changes.

What concerns me is the way ZOS simply changed what they originally designed and intended as a working mechanic just because a certain group of people made a huge enough noise for about it.

What's worse is the fact that they are blatantly lying that it's a "bug" and was "not intended". There were several discussions before and after these changes were introduced, so it's impossible for them to have not known what they would be introducing. This is not healthy for the reputation of the game.

If you designed something and it's working as intended, then stand out and say that it was intended. Maybe add a few lines like you are aware that it was performing better that intended and adjustments may be incoming.

My own views on the set: the original idea behind the set was pretty clear to me - to not have to use a horse in cyrodiil. Everyone knows if you get jumped while on a horse you are pretty much dead meat, so some mechanic was provided as a way to negate that requirement. Night's silence bonus was that mechanic and if you wore that set you lost out on some significant damage buffs from other sets.

Now, even with the set, you would still be required to mount in cyrodiil again - thus effectively destroying the intended purpose of the set completely

vyndral13preub18_ESO · September 2014

whsprwind wrote: »

This post deserves more attention, especially from people at ZOS

My own views on the set: the original idea behind the set was pretty clear to me - to not have to use a horse in cyrodiil. Everyone knows if you get jumped while on a horse you are pretty much dead meat, so some mechanic was provided as a way to negate that requirement. Night's silence bonus was that mechanic and if you wore that set you lost out on some significant damage buffs from other sets.

Now, even with the set, you would still be required to mount in cyrodiil again - thus effectively destroying the intended purpose of the set completely

So you think they said...
Hey riding around Cyrodill on a horse is dangerous. Is there anyway we could make movement around our pvp not have a drawback like that?

Well we could make a set that massively increases sprint speed. That would work for everyone.

No i don't like that, you should only be able to sprint so fast. And everyone could do it that is silly. And worse of all you would still have to pay attention because people could still attack you because they can see you !

Oh hey, what if we came up with several different abilities and set bonuses that when added together made you sneak faster then you can sprint!

That would be perfect! I could fly around, be unseen, and not everyone could do it since they would have to figure it out and maybe even be a vampire!

That is the perfect solution, because we don't want people to have to use a horse.

kitsinni · September 2014

Simple answer is neither have to do with Magicka. That is all they care about. They are on a crusade to stop anything but Magicka from being used.

cromica81_ESO · September 2014

It's called balancing the game it's a never ending process for mmos. Also it's thier game you are just paying to use it, would it be nice to get explanations for everything, of course but it will never happen. That said this change comes down to common sense, a person should not be able to sneak as fast as a upgraded horse in full sprint

akray21 · September 2014

cromica81_ESO wrote: »

It's called balancing the game it's a never ending process for mmos. Also it's thier game you are just paying to use it, would it be nice to get explanations for everything, of course but it will never happen. That said this change comes down to common sense, a person should not be able to sneak as fast as a upgraded horse in full sprint

But, I should be able to be invisible unless I am a few meters from someone, due to the fact I am crouching. #makessense.

whsprwind · September 2014

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

whsprwind wrote: »

This post deserves more attention, especially from people at ZOS

My own views on the set: the original idea behind the set was pretty clear to me - to not have to use a horse in cyrodiil. Everyone knows if you get jumped while on a horse you are pretty much dead meat, so some mechanic was provided as a way to negate that requirement. Night's silence bonus was that mechanic and if you wore that set you lost out on some significant damage buffs from other sets.

Now, even with the set, you would still be required to mount in cyrodiil again - thus effectively destroying the intended purpose of the set completely

So you think they said...
Hey riding around Cyrodill on a horse is dangerous. Is there anyway we could make movement around our pvp not have a drawback like that?

Well we could make a set that massively increases sprint speed. That would work for everyone.

No i don't like that, you should only be able to sprint so fast. And everyone could do it that is silly. And worse of all you would still have to pay attention because people could still attack you because they can see you !

Oh hey, what if we came up with several different abilities and set bonuses that when added together made you sneak faster then you can sprint!

That would be perfect! I could fly around, be unseen, and not everyone could do it since they would have to figure it out and maybe even be a vampire!

That is the perfect solution, because we don't want people to have to use a horse.

That is my opinion. You can disagree all you want, it has little to do with the main purpose of this post

c0rp · September 2014

The cries of NBs for fixing a mechanic that allows you to sneak faster than you can full sprint is just lol....I'm sorry. I have a vamp NB (does not use NS) and I am just sitting back enjoying the show. If you chose to abuse this you got nerfed. Won't be the last time either, this IS an mmo you know.... *shakes head*

Knootewoot · September 2014

Vampires in Morrowind where pretty darn fast: hissss and they werent even sneaking.

akray21 · September 2014

c0rp wrote: »

The cries of NBs for fixing a mechanic that allows you to sneak faster than you can full sprint is just lol....I'm sorry. I have a vamp NB (does not use NS) and I am just sitting back enjoying the show. If you chose to abuse this you got nerfed. Won't be the last time either, this IS an mmo you know.... *shakes head*

Shake head at you

UrQuan · September 2014

whsprwind wrote: »

This post deserves more attention, especially from people at ZOS

I'm not a nightblade neither do i use this set so i'm not concerned about the set changes.

What concerns me is the way ZOS simply changed what they originally designed and intended as a working mechanic just because a certain group of people made a huge enough noise for about it.

What's worse is the fact that they are blatantly lying that it's a "bug" and was "not intended". There were several discussions before and after these changes were introduced, so it's impossible for them to have not known what they would be introducing. This is not healthy for the reputation of the game.

If you designed something and it's working as intended, then stand out and say that it was intended. Maybe add a few lines like you are aware that it was performing better that intended and adjustments may be incoming.

My own views on the set: the original idea behind the set was pretty clear to me - to not have to use a horse in cyrodiil. Everyone knows if you get jumped while on a horse you are pretty much dead meat, so some mechanic was provided as a way to negate that requirement. Night's silence bonus was that mechanic and if you wore that set you lost out on some significant damage buffs from other sets.

Now, even with the set, you would still be required to mount in cyrodiil again - thus effectively destroying the intended purpose of the set completely

McDonuts · September 2014

rophez_ESO wrote: »

Night Silence is meant to reduce the movement penalty by 60%. How can you reduce the penalty if the passive from Vampirism has already cancelled it out?

Clearly the devs were careless in their original implementation, but it makes sense the way they are fixing it. Do you really think they meant for people to be like, "Oh yeah, I need to hustle over to that keep, let me stealth and run faster than I can sprint in the open!"

The set bonus clearly says that it increases movement speed while sneaking. However, they probably meant, as you inferred, for it to only remove the sneak penalty, like the vamp passive and light armor set do.

Along with the stacking removal, they should change the wording to "Ignore movement speed penalty while sneaking", so that it matches the other set.

Samadhi · September 2014

McDonuts wrote: »

rophez_ESO wrote: »

Night Silence is meant to reduce the movement penalty by 60%. How can you reduce the penalty if the passive from Vampirism has already cancelled it out?

Clearly the devs were careless in their original implementation, but it makes sense the way they are fixing it. Do you really think they meant for people to be like, "Oh yeah, I need to hustle over to that keep, let me stealth and run faster than I can sprint in the open!"

The set bonus clearly says that it increases movement speed while sneaking. However, they probably meant, as you inferred, for it to only remove the sneak penalty, like the vamp passive and light armor set do.

Along with the stacking removal, they should change the wording to "Ignore movement speed penalty while sneaking", so that it matches the other set.

This would also require them to change the mechanics associated with the set, rather than just the wording.

The set increases Sneak speed by 60% of the Sneak speed value.
This brings a regular human up to 96% of regular running speed while sneaking.
The 36% increase is the result of calculating based on the base human sneak speed.

Vampire and Shadow Dancer's Raiment set remove Sneak speed penalty.
These two bonuses each allow a player to sneak at 100% of regular running speed while sneaking.

Vunter · September 2014

Putting an hardcap to stealth movement speed was too difficult..

kijima · September 2014

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Night's Silence movement speed is not a unique "bug", nor is CC-break "not working" on werewolves.

I very much dislike seeing that the community letter on werewolves, and the recent patch notes on movement speed mechanics, are misleading at best, and do not adequately explain that they are actually balance changes rather than "bug fixes". This is a bad road to see the team using with the community in my opinion. I'm sure this isn't intended in a malicious fashion, in fact quite the contrary, but things have to be checked before you post them or the playerbase will learn not to take things said very seriously. Below is my proof as to why the recent statements are wrong.

The mechanics of sneak speed are as follows:

Normal run speed = 250 units per second. All sneaking and other movement speed modifications are multiplied off of this number.

-Sneaking applies a 40% movement speed reduction, or acts as a 0.6x multiplier, for a 160 units per second speed in sneak.
-Vampirism cancels the sneak speed penalty automatically for a 250 units per second speed in sneak.
-Shadow Dancer cancels the sneak speed penalty automatically for a 250 units per second speed in sneak.
-Concealed Weapons adds 25%, or acts as a 1.25x multiplier of your current base sneak speed.
-Night's Silence adds 60%, or acts as a 1.6x multiplier of your current base sneak speed.

Given said mechanics (verified through manual testing and addons that can show through your movement speed normalized by zone in units per second), how is this a bug or other unintended effect? The patch notes for v1.4.2 word it as a "bug" that they are multiplying but everything in the game has always multiplied since beta in this fashion and is the basic game mechanic of sneak and its movement speed, in fact ALL movement speeds in the entire game including mounting, snares, and sprint work in this multiplicative fashion (sprint is 30%, for example, or acts as a 1.3x multiplier).

It sounds like, from this end of things and in my personal opinion, that this v1.4.2 change is a reactionary and unjustified nerf based on a handful of forum complaints being phrased as a "bug" to mitigate the consequences of the decision in the community. It is going down a poor design path of limiting bonuses arbitrarily that stack as designed instead of simply addressing the balance in the first place, and adds a lot of convolution to the gameplay. In the end, please be up-front with balance decisions when they are made, and let the chips fall where they may. People can't actually discuss things when the facts aren't being presented openly and correctly . Be accurate with statements and give everyone the facts.

Same goes for werewolves and the "bug fix" to allow them to CC break. The game data has never shown it as an active ability allowed in werewolf form per ESOhead's data scraping in a live patch, and it has not been doable as a werewolf since the very first beta they were added in. Why call it a "bug" when it was very obviously a balance decision at the time? It's surely an honest mistake, but these kinds of things need to be fact-checked prior to being posted in an official fashion or you will quickly lose the trust of the playerbase when discussing game mechanics. This is meant as constructive feedback and not meant in a negative way, but I wanted to correct the information I've seen both from the handful of CM team posts about the issue and other players.

@ZOS_GinaBruno‌ please pass ^this on to the dev team.

Iorail · September 2014

c0rp wrote: »

The cries of NBs for fixing a mechanic that allows you to sneak faster than you can full sprint is just lol....I'm sorry. I have a vamp NB (does not use NS) and I am just sitting back enjoying the show. If you chose to abuse this you got nerfed. Won't be the last time either, this IS an mmo you know.... *shakes head*

You really don't understand anything do you?

indigoblades · September 2014

Please reconsider this most do NOT want it changed.

Also, you need to change your patch note from "fixed" to "change our design goals". It is my understanding that the higher stealth speed was discussed on PTS forems when the "night silence" armor was tested on PTS 1.3 & ZOS commented it was working as intended.

I really can't understand why it is changed ... is it because one person started a thread in general discussion worried some can sneak faster than running & Non-upgraded horses. The forum Responses are about 10 to 1 against changing anything.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/129044/any-word-on-the-ridiculous-sneak-speeds/p1

Nocturnalis · September 2014

indigoblades wrote: »

Please reconsider this most do NOT want it changed.

The forum Responses are about 10 to 1 against changing anything.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/129044/any-word-on-the-ridiculous-sneak-speeds/p1

This poll is split about 50/50:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/130400/dark-stalker-night-silence-nerf/p1

So what is it that the community wants? ...if this is to be a democratic process.

Anastasia · September 2014

whsprwind wrote: »

This post deserves more attention, especially from people at ZOS

I'm not a nightblade neither do i use this set so i'm not concerned about the set changes.

What concerns me is the way ZOS simply changed what they originally designed and intended as a working mechanic just because a certain group of people made a huge enough noise for about it.

What's worse is the fact that they are blatantly lying that it's a "bug" and was "not intended". There were several discussions before and after these changes were introduced, so it's impossible for them to have not known what they would be introducing. This is not healthy for the reputation of the game.

If you designed something and it's working as intended, then stand out and say that it was intended. Maybe add a few lines like you are aware that it was performing better that intended and adjustments may be incoming.

My own views on the set: the original idea behind the set was pretty clear to me - to not have to use a horse in cyrodiil. Everyone knows if you get jumped while on a horse you are pretty much dead meat, so some mechanic was provided as a way to negate that requirement. Night's silence bonus was that mechanic and if you wore that set you lost out on some significant damage buffs from other sets.

Now, even with the set, you would still be required to mount in cyrodiil again - thus effectively destroying the intended purpose of the set completely

Well said whsprwind: "What concerns me is the way ZOS simply changed what they originally designed and intended as a working mechanic just because a certain group of people made a huge enough noise for about it."

WHY is this such a surprise? I know there are lots of PvP folks who utilize PvE to gain a little extra momentum on their way to getting to the cap so they can then head over to PvP fun competitively - yes??

Well come now, SURELY some of you noted this exact quandary: in this case,ZOS changing a basic design decision which was fleshed out, and planned well in advance of launch. That it was preceeded by those who wanted soloing to be just a lil more comfy FOR EVERY LEVEL OF THE ENTIRE PvE JOURNEY TO V+10ish.

So July 7th: NERFO.

Levels and levels and levels nerfed INSTEAD of adjusting group loot, group e x p or adjusting group finder -- all of which would have made Grouping In Vet Content, the original design and plan -- viable and productive.

Regardless of Vet content BEING YOU KNOW: VET CONTENT and regardless of how nerfing it and making TESO have cradle-to-endgame content solo-centric - how that would affect the quality of players knocking on endgame doors WITHOUT group experience...eh, they nerfed it.

Such an odd pattern of planning things, spending time, man-hours and funding on said things, and then just deleting them, oddly enough after some forum whining and discussions about life in the TESO universe being fair.***

***Also: STILL WAITING ON STAM REGEN ADJUSTMENTS.

Tootall2186 · September 2014

Draxuul wrote: »

rophez_ESO wrote: »

The Vampirism passive doesn't give you a bonus to sneak speed, it cancels the movement penalty.

Shadow Dancer also cancels the movement penalty. Are you saying it makes sense for the movement penalty to cancel twice?

Night Silence is meant to reduce the movement penalty by 60%. How can you reduce the penalty if the passive from Vampirism has already cancelled it out?

Clearly the devs were careless in their original implementation, but it makes sense the way they are fixing it. Do you really think they meant for people to be like, "Oh yeah, I need to hustle over to that keep, let me stealth and run faster than I can sprint in the open!"

Edit: Attorneyatlawl - I usually agree with your posts, because you make really good points. I understand that it's FUN to move fast like this, and I hope they do add some sets/buffs/potions that allow us to get around faster. I just think it probably shouldn't be done via sneaking. It's only my opinion, but it seems that the devs might have a similar mindset.

You sir are my hero .

Lol joking of course but i like the way you think. And i`ve read the OP`s post and it seemed to make sense untill i read your post.

I don`t play NB and i don`t play Vampire and i don`t use NS set so i was only here by cuiosity but learning that NB`s can actually prowl faster than they can sprint is very ridiculous lol.

Sneaking is the art of moving slowly and silently to avoid being detected . It is in no way the equivalent of being invisible . So yeah , it wouldn`t make sense at all that someone could move at extreme speeds and still not make a sound and still be able to blend with his surroundings unless he`s using a spell like muffle to reduce the noise and some kinda shadow effect to help mask his silouette.

Anyways all this to say that i agree with your post. And i`m glad ZoS are doing something about it .

Draxuul

Actually... The definition of sneak is = to move quietly and secretly to avoid detection.

Sneaking does not imply moving slowly, Just quietly.

As the OP said it's not an actual "bug". They're just jumping on the band wagon of the MINOR outcry of the forum crybabies that don't understand something. They simply jump to conclusions and or jump on the band wagon of what they read as "fact". Much like how and why people read and feed into media hype without having any knowledge.

Frankly I think it's quite absurd that people are complaining about this. It was brought up multiple times by PTS people and ZOS clearly stated it was working as intended. Also a little note to add, people should be able to travel how they wish. Whether you like using your horse or if you like running around. You should be able to do so as you wish with almost equal speeds. A max speed horse is still the fastest mode of travel in game. No matter what people try to claim.

The fact that this is such an outcry also comes down to a balancing issue. A few games recently have been balancing pve and pvp together... They should be balanced entirely on their own. Movement speeds period, aside from the alliance war speed boost, shouldn't work in pvp. Horses should be unusable, and everyone should be at a set base movement speed. You could sprint and use the alliance speed boost or use skills like BE but any other movement speed bonuses are null and void in pvp. Makes all the "crying" go away and they can focus on actually balancing what needs to be balanced in pvp.

Let pve and it's movement speeds be. Fix WW cc break and allow people to RP and move around and explore as they like in pve. That's why people play pve. Explore, quests, running around, taking in the game and it's beauty, etc.

Tootall2186 · September 2014

Nocturnalis wrote: »

indigoblades wrote: »

Please reconsider this most do NOT want it changed.

The forum Responses are about 10 to 1 against changing anything.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/129044/any-word-on-the-ridiculous-sneak-speeds/p1

This poll is split about 50/50:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/130400/dark-stalker-night-silence-nerf/p1

So what is it that the community wants? ...if this is to be a democratic process.

The players on the forums by no means represent the community. There's probably only 1/4 of the player base actually on the forums. 95% of game forums and it's posters are the worst part or the games community. The other 3/4 of the community is on game actually enjoying the wonderful game that ZOS has put together.

Nocturnalis · September 2014

Tootall2186 wrote: »

Nocturnalis wrote: »

indigoblades wrote: »

Please reconsider this most do NOT want it changed.

The forum Responses are about 10 to 1 against changing anything.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/129044/any-word-on-the-ridiculous-sneak-speeds/p1

This poll is split about 50/50:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/130400/dark-stalker-night-silence-nerf/p1

So what is it that the community wants? ...if this is to be a democratic process.

The players on the forums by no means represent the community. There's probably only 1/4 of the player base actually on the forums. 95% of game forums and it's posters are the worst part or the games community. The other 3/4 of the community is on game actually enjoying the wonderful game that ZOS has put together.

Yes, some players want design by democracy, and going by the trends on the forum is a horrible idea.

That was my point, completely agree... Except for the worst part of the community thing.

Tootall2186 · September 2014

Nocturnalis wrote: »

Tootall2186 wrote: »

Nocturnalis wrote: »

indigoblades wrote: »

Please reconsider this most do NOT want it changed.

The forum Responses are about 10 to 1 against changing anything.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/129044/any-word-on-the-ridiculous-sneak-speeds/p1

This poll is split about 50/50:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/130400/dark-stalker-night-silence-nerf/p1

So what is it that the community wants? ...if this is to be a democratic process.

The players on the forums by no means represent the community. There's probably only 1/4 of the player base actually on the forums. 95% of game forums and it's posters are the worst part or the games community. The other 3/4 of the community is on game actually enjoying the wonderful game that ZOS has put together.

Yes, some players want design by democracy, and going by the trends on the forum is a horrible idea.

That was my point, completely agree... Except for the wort part of the community thing.

That's why I mentioned that 95% of posters are just trolls and people qqing. The other 5%, were here to actually try and help and have constructive conversations. :-P

I just hate when they "balance" games by forum outcry. Granted not everything is just normal QQ. There are some legitimate calls for fixes. But again they get buried by QQ.

Samadhi · September 2014

Tootall2186 wrote: »

...
Actually... The definition of sneak is = to move quietly and secretly to avoid detection.

Sneaking does not imply moving slowly, Just quietly.

...

Just as a bit of an aside from the topic, I'm rather fond of The Philosophy of Stealth book that appears in game.

I like how it refers to Stealth as a matter of being not-seen by means of going unnoticed in plain view.

It may seems obvious, but the key to practical invisibility is to be not-seen. What does it mean to not-seen? Let us turn this around and ask: what does it mean to be seen?

To be seen means that the visible object has somehow attracted the attention of the viewer. Most of the time, you can count on a target's vision to slide across nineteen out of twenty objects without really seeing them, because to the target they simply make up part of the general background of his or her surroundings.

To be not-seen, you must become part of this general background. Lose your individuality and become an integral part of your surroundings. In this way, you may wear the cloak of shadows even upon the salt flats at noon.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Online:The_Philosophy_of_Stealth

Xanthro · September 2014

rophez_ESO wrote: »

The Vampirism passive doesn't give you a bonus to sneak speed, it cancels the movement penalty.

Shadow Dancer also cancels the movement penalty. Are you saying it makes sense for the movement penalty to cancel twice?

Night Silence is meant to reduce the movement penalty by 60%. How can you reduce the penalty if the passive from Vampirism has already cancelled it out?

You can't wear both 5 set Shadow Dancer and 5 Piece Night Silence. Wearing 5 piece Shadow Dancer doesn't increase your speed as a vampire, at least it didn't when I tried it.
The Night Silence set doesn't say, reduces movement penalty by 60%, it says,
"Increase speed while sneaking by 60%"
You are making up the wording.
Increasing speed by 60% is the same as multiplying your speed without the set bonus by 1.6.