Almost 6 Months - I thought we were supposed to be F2P by now?

Obscure · September 2014

...oi...

Sub based games don't go F2P within 6 months of launch...

...they tend to do it in 12

Uncertain if ESO will go that route, but the market trends are what they are. SWTOR did it and took a failing product and made it extremely profitable. Think a better model for ESO is "B2P" and actual DLC style content packaging. Toss in season passes for stuff players might just want to visit and then bail out on when the next thing shows up *cough*Craglorn*cough*, some solid micro transactions (player housing is a great place to go with that), and BAM! Money machine!

...just my opinion really... Sub fee? No sub fee? F2P? B2P? If it keeps the game fun, and goes into funding content I'm going to have fun with, then I don't really care. Business's need money to make the content I want and I give business's money for content I want. It's a very simple relationship.

ShadoPanauin · September 2014

Ojustaboo wrote: »

Martinus72 wrote: »

Haven't you heard Eso is dying, everyone's left and game's unplayable? Just read these forums carefully

We may well joke about such things, but sadly I have seen a big decline of the no of players on line in my guild, I am not subbing for September, hoping game play improves for October due to an awful game play experience in the previous few weeks with PvP being virtually unplayable. I haven't given up, but need a break for a month to get over my constant frustration.

My guild has always been very positive towards ESO, but in the past 2 weeks a few people have left saying they have had enough of the bugs, and for the first time since launch, the following thread title appears in my guilds forum

"lack of members online"

Sure there seemed to be a lot of people who obviously had tried beta for 5 mins and for some strange reason wanted the game to fail.

But in the past few weeks I have seen a lot of players who loved this game and expected it to be their home for many years, real;ly wanted the game to succeed, simply give up out of frustration due to various bugs/lag they encountered

So while there will always be moaners (and people who refuse to believe anything is really wrong with their beloved game), I do think it's a bit of a warning to Zenimax when the sort of decline I've started to see starts, then you get threads like this appearing from others who really love the game but are frustrated.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/130273/open-letter-from-the-noore-to-zenimax-addressing-unresolved-issues-driving-players-from-the-game/

Edit, but no way would I like this game ever to be F2P

You had five offline! My guild had 0 offline! THE WORLD IS ENDINGDWDIOAKDOWA

HeroStomp13 · September 2014

I sincerely hope that this game does NOT go Free to play, in my opinion that ruins an MMO entirely because it populates the game with two different groups of players the one's that pay the sub fee/extra fee or the one's that don't. Free to play game's become entirely over populated and it causes more "bugs" simply due to the fact that there are more people/ more stuff in the game. Every game has bugs or has issues even well past launch. Again this is just my opinion.

Karnus · September 2014

SINKING SHIP!

But not rly.

MercyKilling · September 2014

Stx wrote: »

You know what's even more annoying than people who do nothing but badmouth this game....

People who pretend the game is fine and ignore the large amount of bugs and class/stat imbalances.

I love this game, and I have always loved the ES franchise. But that doesn't mean I am blind to how subpar this game is for a SUB game. Usually a sub fee means bugs get fixed very fast, and major imbalances don't persist for 6 months. Usually. =(

Oh, I find plenty wrong with this game. Design choices, mostly. Like phasing. No encounter scaling. Grouping is virtually nonexistent. Having to be in a guild to sell wares. Forced solo instances. Dyes tied to achievements.
I could go on, but I won't.

Even with these shortcomings, I still think it's better than anything else out there.

Draxuul · September 2014

Martinus72 wrote: »

Haven't you heard Eso is dying, everyone's left and game's unplayable? Just read these forums carefully

some people left but there is no doubt in my mind that some new people are joining regularly . I started playing 3 months after release and i`m not about to go anywhere .

Everytime i make a post about how i love the way this game is made , there are people giving me agree votes and insightful votes and awesome votes.

No i`m not a vote farmer , i`m only saying this because this means SOME people agree with me and are willing to give Zenimax a chance to fix the bugs.

I also see a lot of people agreeing with me that there is no REAL imbalance issue and that those who complain would most probably complain about something else if they didn`t complain about imbalance issues. Some people just feel the absolute need to reach ranting and complaining and whining quotas everyday and that will never change.

And i`m absolutly sure that those who rant about imbalance are people who come from MMO`s such as WOW, LOTRO, EQ 2 , RIFTetc...

Those new to MMO`s and who joined this game from being big fans of the Elder Scrolls fanchise love the game as is and love the fact that choices actually have an impact on gameplay and that some builds are more difficult to play than others and want this to stay that way.

And to return to the game dying subject , major cities are crawling with people , everytime i enter a public delve there are at least 2-3 other players inside with me and i always come across more on my way out.

I almost always see other people while clearing Dolmens , i also often see other players waiting around world bosses hoping to see other players arrive so they can get the achievement , and lastly , i see people doing the exact same quests i am all the time .

I even find it a bit annoying sometimes , especially when i`m fighting a group of mobs and then another player just steps in the fight even though i was clearly not needing help . Though i don`t make a big deal out of that cuz it`s a public world and i`d be an ass to give him *** for giving me a hand lol. It`s just a little annoying but i can live with it .

All of that to say that from my point of view, this game isn`t dying at all. May not be as populated as other MMO`s but at some point , the population in this game will stabilize , those who are happy with the differences that this game offers will remain and those who simply can`t deal with those differences will be gone and this community will be a lot better off for it .

I`m sure Zenimax are aware of all the chaos that every MMO`s suffer at launch and that losing subs in mass in the first year is to be expected and they were most likely prepared to see it happen and they will survive it and will learn to live with those who remain untill the game has fewer bugs and more content which will not only get them new subs but keep their loyal subscribers happy .

Give any new MMO at least 2 years before coming to the conclusion that it`s dying .

Draxuul

Uisi · September 2014

Sure it is free to play, you can play the game whenever you want ... after paying the sub of course!

Vizier · September 2014

Funny. A bunch of people that don't play anymore are bothered enough to monitor, post and troll these forums. Go figure.

Was there a point to the post? :-1

renton1x1x1 · September 2014

quiet plz i'm trying to sleep

ers101284b14_ESO · September 2014

renton1x1x1 wrote: »

quiet plz i'm trying to sleep

There is no sleep in this dojo!

Nox_Aeterna · September 2014

Can only say after 12 months really , but it is unlikely that ESO will go F2P or even say it will before the console release.

One way or the other , it is hard to check in ESO the number of players , we dont have servers population one can check , even zones wont show this since the mega server will pretty much make sure most of them will atleast appear "full".

Zen refuses to give out any numbers about their subs and such also.

So really , is this ship sinking? No idea, we wont see it until we are already drowning anyway.

Syntse · September 2014

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/119129/will-you-quit-if-eso-goes-f2p

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/113655/would-you-continue-playing-if-the-game-goes-f2p

staxjax · September 2014

I bought a 6 month subscription for my account, and it will end in November. I will be buying another 6 month subscription.

I have 2 other accounts in my household, still subbed since April as well...and it doesn't look like they will be unsubscribing any time soon either.

As long as there are people like me, buying subscriptions and spending hundreds of dollars a year, the game will never go free to play.

Pretty sure I'm not the only one

LtCrunch · September 2014

felinith66 wrote: »

Agree about WOW. But F2P games weren't as relevant at that time as it is now. Most F2P games during WOW's early days were children's games. Only in the late 2000's did it become a viable option for gaming companies. Also, there has been situations where going F2P increased a company's income, making it a more favorable option for a company losing money while using the P2P method.

I hope it doesn't come to that with ESO. I think this game is well-funded. There are still many issues that have been left unsolved - grouping problems, phasing - but there are also plenty of improvements being implemented. There's also been an influx of new players recently. But Vet zones are still mostly empty and Craglorn is still a grindzone.

1.4 is the first update to actually address some grouping/phasing issues. So even that is being addressed. Certainly not solved just yet but it's a WIP

Mathias.vikenb16_ESO · September 2014

Well, i have been playing every day since launch and i was in the beta. This game is epic and i love it:) But the fact is that we cant ignore the fact that people are leaving at a huge scale! I play in all the zones and factilns but there is like i an there all alone, i see like 10 players each hour:( Guys, please dont make yourself a bunker. The only sulution to this game to be sucessfull is to lower the prices.
Nobody wants to Pay for a full game + the expensive sub.
thank u for understanding(if u do).

AngryNord · September 2014

It is quite obvious that a lot of People have left. My friends list consisted of about 20 People in May, now it is Down to less than ten (and a few of those remaining haven't been online for weeks). Of the People I used to do Group Dungeons With at the start of the game, I think one remains.

AoEnwyr · September 2014

slopezgamesub17_ESO1 wrote: »

I wont even play this even when this goes F2P. Broken pve and pvp = a waste of time.

Then why are you on the forums if you have no interest in the game or playing?

Dominoid · September 2014

Mathias.vikenb16_ESO wrote: »

Well, i have been playing every day since launch and i was in the beta. This game is epic and i love it:) But the fact is that we cant ignore the fact that people are leaving at a huge scale! I play in all the zones and factilns but there is like i an there all alone, i see like 10 players each hour:( Guys, please dont make yourself a bunker. The only sulution to this game to be sucessfull is to lower the prices.
Nobody wants to Pay for a full game + the expensive sub.
thank u for understanding(if u do).

Google is your friend for pricing.

JKorr · September 2014

david271749 wrote: »

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

The math fail is important too as many people did a 6 month sub. The game is sinking like a lead weight. Quieter and quieter each month. PvP is now unsustainable with imbalanced populations and many have unsubbed as a result - this will start to show later this and next month. So, yes, it's going to have to go F2P reasonably soon.

That's really not something anyone with a clue could doubt. It has nothing to do with liking or disliking the game. It's a cold, hard numbers thing.

^Couldn't agree more, but you're forgetting that free month everybody gets. That means a lot of subs are due to expire in early October. When zos does do a f2p announcement, I think it will be immensely entertaining to see how many quit threads pop up from all these "loyal players."

Well, I know there are glitches and problems. There are issues I have hope the devs are working on. The fact they've been patching and working on content is part of that hope. Right now I have 152 days left in my account, and I have another game time card on order for another 60.

Apparently there are some players who don't think its a total fail.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/08/29/tamriel-infinium-five-reasons-to-return-to-elder-scrolls-online/

ers101284b14_ESO · September 2014

JKorr wrote: »

david271749 wrote: »

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

The math fail is important too as many people did a 6 month sub. The game is sinking like a lead weight. Quieter and quieter each month. PvP is now unsustainable with imbalanced populations and many have unsubbed as a result - this will start to show later this and next month. So, yes, it's going to have to go F2P reasonably soon.

That's really not something anyone with a clue could doubt. It has nothing to do with liking or disliking the game. It's a cold, hard numbers thing.

^Couldn't agree more, but you're forgetting that free month everybody gets. That means a lot of subs are due to expire in early October. When zos does do a f2p announcement, I think it will be immensely entertaining to see how many quit threads pop up from all these "loyal players."

Well, I know there are glitches and problems. There are issues I have hope the devs are working on. The fact they've been patching and working on content is part of that hope. Right now I have 152 days left in my account, and I have another game time card on order for another 60.

Apparently there are some players who don't think its a total fail.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/08/29/tamriel-infinium-five-reasons-to-return-to-elder-scrolls-online/

Much as I love ESO and I do think its getting better, the Article writer saying "Fail Troll" lends less credibility to the article.....just my opinion. I think a lot of players will return with the justice system and Thieves/DarkBrotherhood guilds. They do however need those in before console release. That's just my opinion.

dragonhawk · September 2014

The game has seen a big decline in players and I dont expect many to come back. Is it enough to kill the game, obviously no right now but who can say if it continues. I also read where someone in Zos said they would shut the game down before going ftp (dont remember where I read it at this point I saw it when beta was out), I would be more curious to see if they would actually stay true to that vow.

The game bugs arent what have bothered me so much, I expected those. What has bothered me the most is the blatant lie that they made a game that allowed you to play how you wanted (hence why there were only 4 classes). When you make a statement like that players expect it to count all the way through the game not just for soloing quests. The fact that you basically need to go cloth/staff for trails is pathetic design and that one class (Templars) isnt even considered viable for dps in vet dungeons and trials. So either Zos is clueless about mmo design or they lied to their customers. As for the whole resource system they setup (magic/stamina), that I believe is doomed to failure. I am sure they will try to tweak things for years to come trying to make it work, but the fact that this is the only mmo out that forces players to split their resources between 2 stats to damage/use abilities should tell you something.

I will be most likely leaving when the new expansion hits WoW, because despite its flaws it seems to be the only mmo out that knows how to design endgame that isnt pvp based. I want endgame that will keep me pushing and where the battles feel a bit more epic and not trials that are designed to be cleared in 20 min and then just run again and again in one night. I was hoping that Zos would get its act together a bit faster as I do like the stories and look of the game, but I dont have enough hope any longer to keep me paying them $15 a month.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO · September 2014

I love how everyone but me here seems to have access to sub numbers ZOS has never released.

Please share your sources.

As for WoW and its numbers, no one is going to beat that, and it's not because WoW is a quality game. WoW is one of the first games most people played. I played UO first but really got into MMOs with EQ and have played that on and off for years. But EQ was a long term commitment and sucked away your free time and it was very hard. WoW came along and made things way easier and more casual and people that hadn't been interested in MMOs were willing to do them then.

The best solution lies somewhere between those with a heavy dose of UO and its sandbox open world pvp setup.

ESO is a bit of an odd duck, though still very themepark. Personally I think it is too easy and dev communication sucks. CS is good though.

There's just this problem because of games like WoW where people don't like a challenge. I understand not wanting Evercrack levels of commitment, nothing wrong with being casual, but christ, you should have to earn things at least a little bit.

The devs have made some bad decisions and caved to crybabies along the way, which has made me angry and somewhat disenfranchised. It remains to be seen what else they'll cave on. It could make the justice system and imperial city disastrous.

I enjoy it for now, but my mood has darkened more than a little bit.

JKorr · September 2014

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

david271749 wrote: »

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

The math fail is important too as many people did a 6 month sub. The game is sinking like a lead weight. Quieter and quieter each month. PvP is now unsustainable with imbalanced populations and many have unsubbed as a result - this will start to show later this and next month. So, yes, it's going to have to go F2P reasonably soon.

That's really not something anyone with a clue could doubt. It has nothing to do with liking or disliking the game. It's a cold, hard numbers thing.

^Couldn't agree more, but you're forgetting that free month everybody gets. That means a lot of subs are due to expire in early October. When zos does do a f2p announcement, I think it will be immensely entertaining to see how many quit threads pop up from all these "loyal players."

Well, I know there are glitches and problems. There are issues I have hope the devs are working on. The fact they've been patching and working on content is part of that hope. Right now I have 152 days left in my account, and I have another game time card on order for another 60.

Apparently there are some players who don't think its a total fail.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/08/29/tamriel-infinium-five-reasons-to-return-to-elder-scrolls-online/

Much as I love ESO and I do think its getting better, the Article writer saying "Fail Troll" lends less credibility to the article.....just my opinion. I think a lot of players will return with the justice system and Thieves/DarkBrotherhood guilds. They do however need those in before console release. That's just my opinion.

I think they do too. The patching for consoles is a lot more involved than for pc. If they don't want to have major hassles and issues, any problems with the justice system/thieves'/dark brotherhood need to be solved as much as possible before they release anything to console. I am a long time Bethesda ES player; I was around for all the complaints and rants from people who encountered game breaking bugs on console, especially ps3, for Oblivion, FO3, and Skyrim. I'd prefer that not happen with ESO and Zenimax.

Sarenia · September 2014

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

I love how everyone but me here seems to have access to sub numbers ZOS has never released.

Please share your sources.

Every MMO game ever has people who stand on the proverbial sidewalk screaming "The sky is falling!"

Meanwhile, the rest of us sit off to the side and giggle.

I find many of those people have a tendency to pop up now and again, as they resub to a "dead" game, only to scream the same rubbish after getting bored again. It's like a cycle of nihilism.

Elsonso · September 2014

I think that the bulk of any recent subscription losses are due to dissatisfaction with PVP. Most of the dissent (not all) seems to come from that quarter.

I have said before that I feel that the game has more subscribers, or at least more active players, now than it had in the first week of May. This is not a scientific observation but it is an observation based on play around three Alliance main cities (Daggerfall, Mournhold, Vulkhel Guard) in the last few days.

They could have simply increased the maximum channel size, but there are more unique characters in these places than there were in the places I frequented back at the start of May.

I do want to mention that the start of May was after, or at least at the end, for a large number of free 30 day players who will never return. It was also the height of the bot farmers, and there were a lot of different characters back then being used for farming. The month of May was probably the low point in the subscriptions.

dodgehopper_ESO · September 2014

Navhkrin wrote: »

Im one of those people left after release, I think about coming back.
But racial imbalance is annoying as hell, Im not going to come back until they do somethink about it. Its not like i want best possibillity, But running a nord as DK fire mage really annoys me

Wait what? How is Nord Dragon Knight a bad thing? 15% Regeneration? Check. 6% Global Damage Reduction? Check. Uber Frost Resistance that a lot of npc's chock at you? Check. Maximum Health (admittedly only 3% but that's still good) Check.

Don't feel badly about playing a Nord Dragonknight. DK is a very hardy class, and Nord is a very hardy class. Sure you're not getting the bonus to fire that a Dunmer is getting, but you're also significantly tougher. They're just different playstyles.

Elad13 · September 2014

jrgray93 wrote: »

The game still has a plethora of issues to be worked out but just enough appeal to keep me sticking around. I like the sub model.

Zos thanks you for your money....it's people like you that keep us making more and more $$$$$....and one day we might actually provide the game we promised....but why ruin a good thing????

Ragefist · September 2014

staxjax wrote: »

I bought a 6 month subscription for my account, and it will end in November. I will be buying another 6 month subscription.

I have 2 other accounts in my household, still subbed since April as well...and it doesn't look like they will be unsubscribing any time soon either.

As long as there are people like me, buying subscriptions and spending hundreds of dollars a year, the game will never go free to play.

Pretty sure I'm not the only one

No you are not sir! I find it hilarious how someone can complain about a sub. One takeaway meal from Pizza Hut costs me the same money as monthly sub...

Merlin13KAGL · September 2014

Vizier wrote: »

Funny. A bunch of people that don't play anymore are bothered enough to monitor, post and troll these forums. Go figure.

Was there a point to the post? :-1

@Vizier‌, about 10 minutes of our lives we'll never get back...

kelly.medleyb14_ESO · September 2014

MercyKilling wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

You know what's even more annoying than people who do nothing but badmouth this game....

People who pretend the game is fine and ignore the large amount of bugs and class/stat imbalances.

I love this game, and I have always loved the ES franchise. But that doesn't mean I am blind to how subpar this game is for a SUB game. Usually a sub fee means bugs get fixed very fast, and major imbalances don't persist for 6 months. Usually. =(

Oh, I find plenty wrong with this game. Design choices, mostly. Like phasing. No encounter scaling. Grouping is virtually nonexistent. Having to be in a guild to sell wares. Forced solo instances. Dyes tied to achievements.
I could go on, but I won't.

Even with these shortcomings, I still think it's better than anything else out there.

I agree with this statement 100% except if I were to list design choices I would list as my top 5.

Stamina being useless
Leather being useless
Quest markers coddling everyone around the map (even huge arrows over rats)
Way to easy to level
Way to easy in general