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Could a possible failure from ESO hurt future TES games by Bethesda?
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Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭@ruze84b14_ESO So you're saying a successful ESO would hurt the single player line even more than a failing one, did I get that right? All things considered, that actually does make a lot of sense and explains even more.
"You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"0 -
cromica81_ESO✭✭✭Eso will have zero effect on the next single player game except that I could see them adding a coop mode because in the end that's all most people wanted.2 -
Ser Lobo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nazon_Katts wrote: »@ruze84b14_ESO So you're saying a successful ESO would hurt the single player line even more than a failing one, did I get that right? All things considered, that actually does make a lot of sense and explains even more.
Yes. Right now, if ESO fell off the market and the next TES game comes out in a few years, there won't be too much of a hiccup, I don't think. Many single-player fans have wanted co-op multiplayer, and to explore the entire world of Nirn, and to have larger battles and more content being delivered.
Content delivery is a big issue. Each generation I get so sad because we get a good year of expansions, and then the game 'dies', left on the shelf. No developer oversight. Nothing new planned.
ESO, as an MMO, can and probably will still be living ten years from now, as many of its predecessors have done. And by living, I mean still adding new content, new expansions, new mechanics, new armors, new everything.
By the time the next TES game comes along, us players may have raised our expectations on what we want from Elder Scrolls as a whole. One year of post-release development may no longer be enough. One-and-done mentalities with great stories, but no continuation.
It'll still be huge and popular. Bethesda does epic RPGs like nobody else. But we'll know that they could have done so much more.Ruze Aulus. Mayor of Dhalmora. Archer, hunter, assassin. Nightblade.
Gral. Mountain Terror. Barbarian, marauder, murderer. Nightblade.
Na'Djin. Knight-Blade. Knight, vanguard, defender. Nightblade.
XBOX NARuze is a veteran of the PC Beta, lived through the year one drought, survived the buy-to-play conversion, and has stepped foot in the hells known as Craglorn. He mained a nightlbade when nightblades weren't good, and has never worn a robe. He converted from PC during the console betas, and hasn't regretted it a moment since.
He'd rank ESO:TU (in it's current state) a 4.8 out of 5, loving the game almost entirely.
This is an multiplayer game. I should be able to log in, join a dungeon, join a battleground, queue for a dolmen or world boss or delve, teleport in, play for 20 minutes, and not worry about getting kicked, failing to join, having perfect voice coms, or being unable to complete content because someone's lagging behind. Group Finder and matchmaking is broken. Take a note from Destiny and build a system that allows from drop-in/drop-out functionality and quick play.1 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭Mh, but I would consider that a good thing, if the success of ESO would force BGS to raise the bar for their next TES installment. I think they even have to up the ante for FO already.
And there's quite a lot of things SP can do better than MMOs besides graphics, like AI, combat and a focused presentation of the narrative. The only limiting factor they'll be facing and we'll be facing the next few years gonna be the consoles.
So while I agree that a failing ESO would be rather beneficial to the core series (they could continue to sell us less for more and we'd love it) a successful one could help with it evolving, actually."You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"1 -
firstdecan✭✭✭✭✭
✭I doubt the success \ failure of ESO will have any determination on when TES VI comes out, but I would expect TES VI will be the last real single player \ stand alone TES game. TES VI is probably already in the development pipeline (after FO4), and that is the only reason I think it will come out.
The reason is very simple, an online game provides their development teams with instant feedback on how players are playing the game, what they find rewarding, what they do repetitively, and what they like about the game. They do not have this option with stand alone \ single player games. This makes their research into the game easier, and allows them to develop and improve the game incrementally. This incremental development allows them to make more frequent and less risky business decisions about the game.
An online game is really nothing more than perpetual market research they can use to tune the current game, or plan the next game. It's ironic that some of the negative comments on this game is that it feels like we're playing a paid beta, that's almost what we're doing (please note: I'm commenting, not complaining). To be honest though, I don't see this as a bad thing. This enables them to make a more appealing game quicker and with less guess work.
But to the OPs original question, I don't think failure of ESO will have an effect on single player TES games, I think single player TES games have a limited lifespan and will stop being produced due to the natural evolution of the supply side of the market (what makes it easier for the devs to make the game). I also do not believe ESO will be a failure, they have a much more responsive mechanism for gathering feedback and introducing improvements than any single player game could have.
The only argument I could see for continuing the success of the single player games is the fact that ESO games have always been highly customizable \ moddable, allowing the community to fix what they didn't like about the game. Improvement of TES games were effectively crowd sourced before crowd sourcing became a buzz word (although even with the bugs, the TES games were always a really great foundation to base community improvements on).
And just for perspective, I'm an ES fanboi, I enjoy ESO and have loved the ES series. I simply think it's best to look towards the future with a critical eye.0 -
Drakoleon✭✭✭✭One thing for sure... am never gonna buy any game from these two companies right after its release!
A good lesson learnd here i quess you were all expecting the obvious from bethesda... a playable game!
Personally if this game was Zeni's alone i wouldnt even bother to test it I show bethesda on titles and i bought prerelease Imperial pack straight away!
Turns out that we pay to play a beta game so console gamers will receive the right "stuff" I really feel like Zeni-Bethesda s quinea pig here And the compesation for our "loyalty" and hours after hours of waste game time due to all these bugs and problems will be a......wraith pet!
WTF dear producers you think all your customers are 12y old or idiots? Shame on you!Edited by Drakoleon on August 27, 2014 1:43PM2 -
Pallmor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Moonglum83 wrote: »bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »if there are still comming single player TES games
how many warcraft games have you seen after wow ... exactly
This is not WoW or Blizzard. I'm not trying to invalidate your argument, but this old comparison is becoming so overused it is on the verge of becoming a cliché.
What is you argument, anyway?
It's not just WoW. Have you seen any single-player KOTOR games announced since SWTOR? Once you go MMO, you don't go back (for good or ill).
The one and only exception to this I can think of is Final Fantasy. And that series was always pretty wonky and inconsistent anyway.
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RazielSR✭✭✭✭✭firstdecan wrote: »I doubt the success \ failure of ESO will have any determination on when TES VI comes out, but I would expect TES VI will be the last real single player \ stand alone TES game. TES VI is probably already in the development pipeline (after FO4), and that is the only reason I think it will come out.
The reason is very simple, an online game provides their development teams with instant feedback on how players are playing the game, what they find rewarding, what they do repetitively, and what they like about the game. They do not have this option with stand alone \ single player games. This makes their research into the game easier, and allows them to develop and improve the game incrementally. This incremental development allows them to make more frequent and less risky business decisions about the game.
An online game is really nothing more than perpetual market research they can use to tune the current game, or plan the next game. It's ironic that some of the negative comments on this game is that it feels like we're playing a paid beta, that's almost what we're doing (please note: I'm commenting, not complaining). To be honest though, I don't see this as a bad thing. This enables them to make a more appealing game quicker and with less guess work.
But to the OPs original question, I don't think failure of ESO will have an effect on single player TES games, I think single player TES games have a limited lifespan and will stop being produced due to the natural evolution of the supply side of the market (what makes it easier for the devs to make the game). I also do not believe ESO will be a failure, they have a much more responsive mechanism for gathering feedback and introducing improvements than any single player game could have.
The only argument I could see for continuing the success of the single player games is the fact that ESO games have always been highly customizable \ moddable, allowing the community to fix what they didn't like about the game. Improvement of TES games were effectively crowd sourced before crowd sourcing became a buzz word (although even with the bugs, the TES games were always a really great foundation to base community improvements on).
And just for perspective, I'm an ES fanboi, I enjoy ESO and have loved the ES series. I simply think it's best to look towards the future with a critical eye.
Your whole post made me suffer a bit of headache due to the things you are saying, but the bold part I marked almost killed me.
Edited by RazielSR on August 27, 2014 1:46PM1 -
KhajitFurTrader✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Moonglum83 wrote: »bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »if there are still comming single player TES games
how many warcraft games have you seen after wow ... exactly
This is not WoW or Blizzard. I'm not trying to invalidate your argument, but this old comparison is becoming so overused it is on the verge of becoming a cliché.
What is you argument, anyway?
It's not just WoW. Have you seen any single-player KOTOR games announced since SWTOR? Once you go MMO, you don't go back (for good or ill).
The one and only exception to this I can think of is Final Fantasy. And that series was always pretty wonky and inconsistent anyway.
Um, I really don't know how some people can be so sure there will not be another TES game in the light of this:ZOS_UlyssesW wrote: »Hi there, @Guppet. Rest assured that our sister studio, Bethesda, will continue making great single player TES games. That said, this is a thread which is related to the Elder Scrolls franchise as a whole, rather than ESO. This forum, particularly the General Discussion section, is meant for discussing only The Elder Scrolls Online, and as such, we will be sinking this thread.
If you all would like to discuss this topic in an area which is more appropriate, the official Bethesda Softworks forums do have a Series Discussion section for The Elder Scrolls Series. You can find that forum here: http://forums.bethsoft.com/forum/26-the-elder-scrolls-series-discussion/.
(this was posted yesterday, btw)Edited by KhajitFurTrader on August 27, 2014 1:44PM1 -
RazielSR✭✭✭✭✭The main reason of the topic has ended in some people saying things like this:
I would expect TES VI will be the last real single player \ stand alone TES game. TES VI is probably already in the development pipeline (after FO4), and that is the only reason I think it will come out.
And when I read this:
TES VI is probably already in the development pipeline (after FO4), and that is the only reason I think it will come out.
I mean...
And this:
The only argument I could see for continuing the success of the single player games is the fact that ESO games have always been highly customizable \ moddable, allowing the community to fix what they didn't like about the game. Improvement of TES games were effectively crowd sourced before crowd sourcing became a buzz word (although even with the bugs, the TES games were always a really great foundation to base community improvements on).
Are you aware of SKYRIM numbers?
Do you live on planet earth?Edited by RazielSR on August 27, 2014 1:47PM1 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭Metrics are gathered from single player games just like from MMOs these days. Steam, Origin, Xbox, PS4 and Uplay all phone home and have a constant chatter about our likes and dislikes. Combined with data from amazon and google, I don't think there's that many open questions.
But, of course, it's for the greater good and all. Yep. Totally am for that. And I promise to never turn me phone off again. /tinfoilhat"You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"0 -
raglau✭✭✭✭✭T
Are you aware of SKYRIM numbers?
Do you live on planet earth?
Indeed, on Steam alone Skyrim is still within the top ten most played games today. That's not including the console numbers. The idea that its only redeeming feature is that it has an add-on\mod API is one of the more ludicrous things I have read on the Internet today.Edited by raglau on August 27, 2014 1:57PM1 -
BBSooner✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lord of the Rings, Final Fantasy, Warhammer (if you count games workshop as a whole) are all examples of franchises that put out gaming content despite the existence of an mmo. Warcraft and Star Wars are the only franchises I can think of with a track record of games before the MMOs that haven't had any games since the MMO. I'm curious, are there others?
It should also be noted that other single player star wars games were in development (the sadly cancelled '1313' for example), so the presence of TOR didn't hinder the creation of other single player games in the franchise. The lack of development is wholly separate from the existence of an MMO.Edited by BBSooner on August 27, 2014 2:03PM0 -
Pallmor✭✭✭✭✭
✭KhajitFurTrader wrote: »Moonglum83 wrote: »bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »if there are still comming single player TES games
how many warcraft games have you seen after wow ... exactly
This is not WoW or Blizzard. I'm not trying to invalidate your argument, but this old comparison is becoming so overused it is on the verge of becoming a cliché.
What is you argument, anyway?
It's not just WoW. Have you seen any single-player KOTOR games announced since SWTOR? Once you go MMO, you don't go back (for good or ill).
The one and only exception to this I can think of is Final Fantasy. And that series was always pretty wonky and inconsistent anyway.
Um, I really don't know how some people can be so sure there will not be another TES game in the light of this:ZOS_UlyssesW wrote: »Hi there, @Guppet. Rest assured that our sister studio, Bethesda, will continue making great single player TES games. That said, this is a thread which is related to the Elder Scrolls franchise as a whole, rather than ESO. This forum, particularly the General Discussion section, is meant for discussing only The Elder Scrolls Online, and as such, we will be sinking this thread.
If you all would like to discuss this topic in an area which is more appropriate, the official Bethesda Softworks forums do have a Series Discussion section for The Elder Scrolls Series. You can find that forum here: http://forums.bethsoft.com/forum/26-the-elder-scrolls-series-discussion/.
(this was posted yesterday, btw)
Do you believe everything ZOS tells you, or just what you want to believe?1 -
AngryNord✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭As others have said, given the huge success of Skyrim, and the number of loose ends that game left us with, it would be madness not to continue the story in at least one more game.1 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Different genres, MMO is a different genre from single player games, the huge MMO bandwagon has past years ago, after wow success everybody made MMO and almost all failed. Situation is better now however MMO is very time consuming and expensive to develop.firstdecan wrote: »I doubt the success \ failure of ESO will have any determination on when TES VI comes out, but I would expect TES VI will be the last real single player \ stand alone TES game. TES VI is probably already in the development pipeline (after FO4), and that is the only reason I think it will come out.
The reason is very simple, an online game provides their development teams with instant feedback on how players are playing the game, what they find rewarding, what they do repetitively, and what they like about the game. They do not have this option with stand alone \ single player games. This makes their research into the game easier, and allows them to develop and improve the game incrementally. This incremental development allows them to make more frequent and less risky business decisions about the game.
An online game is really nothing more than perpetual market research they can use to tune the current game, or plan the next game. It's ironic that some of the negative comments on this game is that it feels like we're playing a paid beta, that's almost what we're doing (please note: I'm commenting, not complaining). To be honest though, I don't see this as a bad thing. This enables them to make a more appealing game quicker and with less guess work.
But to the OPs original question, I don't think failure of ESO will have an effect on single player TES games, I think single player TES games have a limited lifespan and will stop being produced due to the natural evolution of the supply side of the market (what makes it easier for the devs to make the game). I also do not believe ESO will be a failure, they have a much more responsive mechanism for gathering feedback and introducing improvements than any single player game could have.
The only argument I could see for continuing the success of the single player games is the fact that ESO games have always been highly customizable \ moddable, allowing the community to fix what they didn't like about the game. Improvement of TES games were effectively crowd sourced before crowd sourcing became a buzz word (although even with the bugs, the TES games were always a really great foundation to base community improvements on).
And just for perspective, I'm an ES fanboi, I enjoy ESO and have loved the ES series. I simply think it's best to look towards the future with a critical eye.
Some reports say ESO did pretty well, not fantastic but it earn money however it was an huge risk and would not be done without the huge income from Oblivion and Skyrim.
On the other hand they know TES 6 will sell well unless they do something stupid.
An attempt to make a game who makes everybody happy will leave everybody unhappy so even if you have the user wishes you can not make all happy, I want sorcerers to be buffed and I want more Khajiit types.
Most will not agree with me here, even on the Khajiit types who don't hurt other players directly.
No problems making everybody happy in a single player game with mod support
In short they will exist side by side, pretty much like final fantasy.
I also wonder if we get an Fallout MMO, this however is far into the future even if they have started working on it.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.2 -
bosmern_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've been in love with the franchise since Daggerfall, and I honestly enjoy ESO more. Most of the people that are hating on ESO haven't even played it, other than beta. But they go around acting like they've hit V12 and have gotten 100% completion on the game.~Thallen~3 -
Tapio75✭✭✭✭✭
✭In this case, ESO is well understood to be totally separate from TES. Gamers understand this and the press understand this. They are even split as two separate companies. udest.
I have to somewhat disagree on this. Some of the press seems unimpressed because game is not TES enough. When players are counted, it seems that MMO folks seem to "understand" this is not part of TES while TES and MMO players like and dislike somewhat equally and in the last but not least, the TES purists give most of the dislike buttons and i totally understand this.
In my case, i hoped more TES sandbox MMORPG than MMO TES, world is full of simple minded MMO's allready so why ruin good title? For future new TES... I have some fears because of yhis but i also have hopes.
What i would really love is that they DO NOT do a new TES6 but keep improving Skyrim engine and add more of Tamriel as yearly expansion packs which basically are like full games but only add new stuff to do in existing game which would just give more and more fantastic possibilities
>>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<0 -
Talrenos✭✭✭✭A lot of badmouthing and bashing for this game in every corner from the whole internet.I was thinking if it is possible that this bad press ESO is having could create a bad feeling against TES universe in the future.
So, what do you think? Could a failure from an spin off like ESO start a future disaster for real TES games by Bethesda?
Quick answer = No.
Zenimax is an umbrella corp, and is not actually the company that makes ESO. That is Zenimax Online. Zenimax holds many companies underneath it, in cluding Bethesda softworks, Zenimax online, mud duck productions, and several others. The failure of one company does not effect others. Elder scrolls games like skyrim, oblivion and others are made by Bethesda, and utilize a totally different production team than the online side does.
Wonder why the single player games are so good and the online one blows? That's because the team that made the online one came from DAOC team; they were out of a job at the time. During production of ESO many of the original staff were replaced, and a lot of the people involved in ESO are unknowns in the industry.2 -
RazielSR✭✭✭✭✭bosmern_ESO wrote: »and have gotten 100% completion on the game.
Should be really interesting to get 100% ESO achievements.
o_O
To get to VR12 is well known. Is the most uninteresting feature ever created in a game.0 -
raglau✭✭✭✭✭I think it is safe to say that Zenimax as a parent company, will milk the Elder Scrolls name, and rightly so.
Milk it like cats.1 -
yiasemi✭✭✭✭I post on several professional internet forums as part of my job. A good third have played Skyrim (without mods), and have played FPS with other console users. There is only the odd degenerate such as myself who can converse about any other game more than 10 years old or post college. Or admits to doing so.0 -
madangrypally✭✭✭✭I do not consider ESO a failed game so this topic is moot IMO. It did not receive praise from the critics, but I find most critics opinions are utterly worthless.
It was not an instant success. No MMO is going to be in today's market. ESO has survived a launch and has overcame the first hurdle to its existence. This was accomplished even with all the bad publicity and bad reviews.
An MMO does not need millions of subs to make it a success. Box sells on the PC and the upcoming console will more then make up the upfront cost to create ESO. It needs to have enough subs to keep it out of the red, which is again well below a million required subs.
The second hurdle will be the console launch and I think this will be what makes or breaks ESO as a great game or another dime a dozen MMOs. I would not be surprised if most of what was mentioned at Quake-con is released before or around the console release. IE: Justice system, Champion system, Imperial City, and spell crafting.
At this point I consider the console release as a mini re-release of ESO as it will be drastically different then what it was when it was released 5 months ago. Its sad but it seems we have been beta testing ESO for the console. Once beta testing is over I expect ESO to begin slowly attracting more and more players.
===============================================Edited by madangrypally on August 27, 2014 3:11PM3 -
Talrenos✭✭✭✭
And you make this statement why? Im trying to figure this out, as it has no point or relation to the rest of your comments other than to somehow bolster your opinion by elevating your position in the community. Welcome to the internet, I don't believe self-proclaiming statements made by anyone, especially on forums.I post on several professional internet forums as part of my job..
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Drazhar14✭✭✭✭✭I hope that they keep adding all of the ES features that ESO is missing into the game, so that ESO becomes like ES6 (eventually). All I ever wanted was a true ES game with coop.0 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭Undoubtedly.
I cant see a single player RPG company expanding into MMO multiplayer area and then going back to making single player games. Not unless ESO fails and they pull the plug.
Its like going back to standalone PCs and floppy disk and shutting down the internet. Not going to happen really is it ?
People want connectivity and multiplayer in their games now as a gimme rather than an exception.
So how can TESvi be multiplayer and not compete with ESO ? It simply cant.
Hence, to me this is TESvi or as close as you will get to it. This is why I am so vocal making sure the single player RPG lot who made TES their home can exist in ESO and be happy.
Would there be an ESO2 .... rather than a TES vi ? IMHO yes. They have the server, tech, staff, experience for it now. They have many many eras and timelines that are untouched by ESO.Anything that can be exploited will be exploited3 -
Pallmor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rune_Relic wrote: »People want connectivity and multiplayer in their games now as a gimme rather than an exception.
So how can TESvi be multiplayer and not compete with ESO ? It simply cant.
Yeah, that's the most relevant point here. No way is Zenimax going to develop a different game to compete with ITSELF. If you were head of a company and one division of that company said "Hey we want to spend a lot of money to develop a product that will compete directly with a product that another division of the company has already developed" would you let them do it?
If we get anything single-player out of Bethesda, it will (maybe) be another Fallout game or some new IP. No way are they seriously developing a single-player TES game before ESO has even had a chance to succeed or fail.
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Elad13✭✭✭your only as good as your last game....i strongly feel TESO and Zenimax hurt the franchise name...this is not the game of the year reviews like skyrim and oblivion and morrowind. while it does have some great points it also has some very negative parts. TESO is not the benchmark for future games like oblivion was. And more and more developers will offer highly competitive titles coming up in the future. Many will feed off the negative features of TESO and actually make them better....which in time will hurt Elder scrolls a little. Basically the room is there for a new title to really shine through...but i am not sure which title that would be. I do believe TESO hurt future titles and i know 100% i will never buy a zenimax title again. IF elder scrolls stays with Zenimax it will be a terrible future for the series. However if they see the poor decisions of Zenimax and give the title to another company I think we all will be more than happy to buy the next title.
Solo games become successful for reasons and sometimes adding in MMO features hurt the series.2 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭One thing for sure... am never gonna buy any game from these two companies right after its release!
That is SOP for many games these days, in my opinion, but yes, after Skyrim, I added BGS to my list of "not until after first patch" studios.OP wrote:So, what do you think? Could a failure from an spin off like ESO start a future disaster for real TES games by Bethesda?
Whether ESO fails or not is disconnected from the TES line from BGS. TES 6 is years away. Smart money is on a Fallout 4 game currently in development and that is probably close to 18 months or 2 years out. TES 6 would be years after that. ESO and TES 6 do not currently exist in the same generation of games.
The real question that I had hoped would be discussed before the community team stepped in and close/sunk this is what, if anything, can ESO provide to TES 6 that will become part of the next generation TES game?
XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus2 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭A lot of badmouthing and bashing for this game in every corner from the whole internet.I was thinking if it is possible that this bad press ESO is having could create a bad feeling against TES universe in the future.
So, what do you think? Could a failure from an spin off like ESO start a future disaster for real TES games by Bethesda?
@RazielSR Nice name, btw. (Can I assume you are a Soul Reaver?)
Anyway, two different worlds only related by consultation for lore and ownership of Mother company (intentional, by the way) with two different dedicated player bases, some of which enjoy each.
However, I don't understand this concept? Does someone think a Dev is going to accidentally lean on the Big Red Button while flirting with an intern and accidentally delete the entirety of ESO?
If they stopped right now they would continue to make money and have followers for years.
I'd say this 800 pound gorilla could not mess this up if they tried.
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS1
