Any word on the ridiculous sneak speeds?
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EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey guys! Just want to let you know that this shouldn't actually be happening, and will be fixed once we release Update 4. Hope that clears up any confusion!
Can't say I'm surprised to see that. Any diversity or flexibility must always be squashed ASAP. Lame.5 -
robertlive2014✭✭✭
Currently, stacked stealth movement buffs are faster than a galloping fully-leveled light horse. When viewed by other players, the stealth-moving player appears to invisibly skip forward in such a manner that resembles an exploit. I would like a hard cap on stealth movement buffs so that stacking stealth movement buffs does not result in movement speeds greater than the regular non-stealth running speed.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey guys! Just want to let you know that this shouldn't actually be happening, and will be fixed once we release Update 4. Hope that clears up any confusion!
Edited by robertlive2014 on August 26, 2014 10:25PM4 -
rophez_ESO✭✭✭✭✭robertlive2014 wrote: »
Currently, stacked stealth movement buffs are faster than a galloping fully-leveled light horse. When viewed by other players, the stealth-moving player appears to invisibly skip forward in such a manner that resembles an exploit. I would like a hard cap on stealth movement buffs so that stacking stealth movement buffs does not result in movement speeds greater than the regular non-stealth running speed.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey guys! Just want to let you know that this shouldn't actually be happening, and will be fixed once we release Update 4. Hope that clears up any confusion!
Yep, something like this would be quite reasonable.4 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey guys! Just want to let you know that this shouldn't actually be happening, and will be fixed once we release Update 4. Hope that clears up any confusion!
Can you clarify that for me? Is Vampire+Night's Silence not supposed to stack? Or does it include Concealed Weapon? What is supposed to stack and what isn't?
I run Night's Silence with Concealed Weapon, and it doesn't seem to be that bad. I don't know about Vampire because I don't have the skill line. I can still sprint faster than stealthing with Night's Silence and Concealed Weapon, so I don't know if you mean they aren't supposed to stack. Just wondering
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Yeah, I would like to know this as well.
I've used vampire + Concealed Weapon combo since before Night's Silence was ever given a sneak speed bonus.
Before going vampire I played with Shadow Dancer's Raiment set and Concealed Weapon.
If vampire no longer stacks with Concealed Weapon, I'll be swapping over to Night's Silence + Concealed Weapon combo and dropping vampire all together.
We need to know what is getting changed, and how.
I unfortunately do not have the bandwidth available to download the PTS and test and provide feedback there, so I only get to provide input once updates hit live server.
If @ZOS_GinaBruno or @ZOS_JessicaFolsom could provide information on what exactly the issue is, it will make it easier for players to provide input on other similar issues.
If all speed bonuses are not supposed to be stacking with each other, there are going to be a number of other combinations to deal with as well.
If only certain speed bonuses are not supposed to be stacking with each other, it would be meaningful to know which ones."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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GnatB✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey guys! Just want to let you know that this shouldn't actually be happening, and will be fixed once we release Update 4. Hope that clears up any confusion!
Well, there goes the "working as intended" argument.
edit: And yes, I'm hoping the fix is that they are making all those abilities a "stacking" reduction in the penalty, and not a bonus.
i.e. say stealth is 50% speed penalty. Nights silence (60%) would decrease the penalty by 60%, leaving a 20% speed penalty. Let's say Dark Stalker is another 60%. that would reduce the penalty down to 8%. At this point, you're practically going normal speed while sneaking. Toss in concealed weapon (25%) and you're down to only a 6% penalty.
(edit: Which, I'll admit, is how *I* assumed it worked. I'll say again, the fact that it's actually (apparently) implemented as an actual bonus is just silly, and probably bad programming.)
Edited by GnatB on August 26, 2014 11:32PMAchievements Suck4 -
eNumbra✭✭✭✭✭Orcs can take swift for a sprint bonus and cost reduction, pair it with the steed stone, Fjord's Legacy and even squeeze a little more out of it with Hasty Retreat from the bow line.
I haven't actually checked, but do these stack too? Should they be allowed to? Should anything?Edited by eNumbra on August 26, 2014 11:25PM1 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭...
edit: And yes, I'm hoping the fix is that they are making all those abilities a "stacking" reduction in the penalty, and not a bonus.
i.e. say stealth is 50% speed penalty. Nights silence (60%) would decrease the penalty by 60%, leaving a 20% speed penalty. Let's say Dark Stalker is another 60%. that would reduce the penalty down to 8%. At this point, you're practically going normal speed while sneaking. Toss in concealed weapon (25%) and you're down to only a 6% penalty.
(edit: Which, I'll admit, is how *I* assumed it worked. I'll say again, the fact that it's actually (apparently) implemented as an actual bonus is just silly, and probably bad programming.)
Replace all three reduction bonuses by wearing Shadow Dancer's Raiment instead, priceless.(5 items) Shadow Dancer's Raiment
Ignore movement speed penalty while sneaking"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Xanthro✭✭✭
That's because of Concealed Weapon, which is buggy.m.stollb16_ESO wrote: »Yesterday I saw someone in Cyrodiil from my own alliance who could sneak just as fast as I could sprint on my lv 50 Light Horse (75% speed bonus). He wasn't using speed potions or that path skill from the NB that boosts speed even further just regular sneaking with the same retreating maneuver iv buff I had. We were going in the same direction for about half a minute. Was funny to watch.
What happens is that sometimes if you go into stealth with retreating maneuver active, the 25% bonus is applied to the retreating maneuver speed as well. Then you stealth really really fast.
But if you cast shadowy disguise, you lose the concealed weapon speed bonus as well, you have to exit stealth and reenter it.
Also, you don't always get the speed bonus. It's why you see NB leaving and entering stealth for what appears to be no reason.
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GnatB✭✭✭✭well, as long as the bonuses are additive and not sequential, I don't really have a problem with sprint bonuses stacking, that would be:
100% * 1.09 * 1.15 * 1.15 (Steed?) = 139% of normal sprint, and 164% for short time after a roll. Toss in light armor for an extra 28%, or 167%, or 192% after roll.
That makes far more sense than being able to sneak faster than you can run.Achievements Suck2 -
GnatB✭✭✭✭...
edit: And yes, I'm hoping the fix is that they are making all those abilities a "stacking" reduction in the penalty, and not a bonus.
i.e. say stealth is 50% speed penalty. Nights silence (60%) would decrease the penalty by 60%, leaving a 20% speed penalty. Let's say Dark Stalker is another 60%. that would reduce the penalty down to 8%. At this point, you're practically going normal speed while sneaking. Toss in concealed weapon (25%) and you're down to only a 6% penalty.
(edit: Which, I'll admit, is how *I* assumed it worked. I'll say again, the fact that it's actually (apparently) implemented as an actual bonus is just silly, and probably bad programming.)
Replace all three reduction bonuses by wearing Shadow Dancer's Raiment instead, priceless.(5 items) Shadow Dancer's Raiment
Ignore movement speed penalty while sneaking
Considering Shadow Dancer is 5 trait vs night silence being 2 trait, Death stalker being a passive, and concealed weapon is additional to a skill and doesn't require a 5 set bonus, that seems about right to me.
Edited by GnatB on August 26, 2014 11:54PMAchievements Suck0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭...
edit: And yes, I'm hoping the fix is that they are making all those abilities a "stacking" reduction in the penalty, and not a bonus.
i.e. say stealth is 50% speed penalty. Nights silence (60%) would decrease the penalty by 60%, leaving a 20% speed penalty. Let's say Dark Stalker is another 60%. that would reduce the penalty down to 8%. At this point, you're practically going normal speed while sneaking. Toss in concealed weapon (25%) and you're down to only a 6% penalty.
(edit: Which, I'll admit, is how *I* assumed it worked. I'll say again, the fact that it's actually (apparently) implemented as an actual bonus is just silly, and probably bad programming.)
Replace all three reduction bonuses by wearing Shadow Dancer's Raiment instead, priceless.(5 items) Shadow Dancer's Raiment
Ignore movement speed penalty while sneaking
Considering Shadow Dancer is 5 trait vs night silence being 2 trait, Death stalker being a passive, and concealed weapon is ancilliary, that seems about right to me.
Night's Silence is 5 trait since they made it a (working) sneak speed set.
"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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crislevin✭✭✭✭✭
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This is not true, I saw some nb moving around at minimum the same speed as my level 49 speed horse.ViciousWayz wrote: »A cap on sneak speed? The fastest horse will outrun you still --- I'VE TESTED IT. A horse that is upgraded to about 20 points in speed (without concealed weapon and with concealed weapon about 25 points in speed added), will be about the same as you... so basically any newbie from the starter zones. You are sacrificing ALL OF THOSE WONDERFUL STATS of other sets, some which are AMAZING, for speed.
Go home OP, you're drunk.
Edited by crislevin on August 26, 2014 11:58PM0 -
GnatB✭✭✭✭...
edit: And yes, I'm hoping the fix is that they are making all those abilities a "stacking" reduction in the penalty, and not a bonus.
i.e. say stealth is 50% speed penalty. Nights silence (60%) would decrease the penalty by 60%, leaving a 20% speed penalty. Let's say Dark Stalker is another 60%. that would reduce the penalty down to 8%. At this point, you're practically going normal speed while sneaking. Toss in concealed weapon (25%) and you're down to only a 6% penalty.
(edit: Which, I'll admit, is how *I* assumed it worked. I'll say again, the fact that it's actually (apparently) implemented as an actual bonus is just silly, and probably bad programming.)
Replace all three reduction bonuses by wearing Shadow Dancer's Raiment instead, priceless.(5 items) Shadow Dancer's Raiment
Ignore movement speed penalty while sneaking
Considering Shadow Dancer is 5 trait vs night silence being 2 trait, Death stalker being a passive, and concealed weapon is ancilliary, that seems about right to me.
Night's Silence is 5 trait since they made it a (working) sneak speed set.
My bad, I misread the Shadow Dancer's information. I thought it was crafted requiring 5 traits. Night's silence only requires 2 traits to craft. That said, I believe the trend *is* that dropped set bonuses are supposed to be better than crafted set bonuses, so the balance still holds. The dropped set bonus of 100% penalty reduction would be better than the crafted set bonus of 60% penalty reduction. (Not sure whether better weapon crit and stamina is better than more magic and spell damage for an "assassin" build though, logically the former, but logic doesn't have much to do with how damage works in ESO)Achievements Suck0 -
Arsenic_Touch✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yay, looks like they're going to ruin things again.
Love how they flip flop once people start whining about it.Edited by Arsenic_Touch on August 27, 2014 12:07AM☠ Is it better to out-monster the monster or to be quietly devoured? ☠
╔═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╗
"Hope can drown lost in thunderous sound."
"Fear can claim what little faith remains."
"Death will take those who fight alone."
"But united we can break a fate once set in stone."
╚═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╝
NA // Ebonheart Pact // Leader of CORE Legion // Namira Beta Tester // VR11 NB4 -
GnatB✭✭✭✭Arsenic_Touch wrote: »Yay, looks like they're going to ruin things again.
Love how they flip flop once people start whining about it.
Ruin, a.k.a. change it so it actually makes logical sense.
Oh, and yeah. Just want to throw in that I don't care about the balance issues, I don't even PvP. The way it currently works just simply makes no logical sense, and reeks of bad implementation. And that annoys me.Achievements Suck3 -
ExiledKhallisi✭✭✭✭✭rophez_ESO wrote: »ViciousWayz wrote: »A cap on sneak speed? The fastest horse will outrun you still --- I'VE TESTED IT. A horse that is upgraded to about 20 points in speed, will be about the same as you... so basically any noob from the starter zones. You are sacrificing ALL OF THOSE WONDERFUL STATS of other sets, some which are AMAZING, for speed.
Go home OP, you're drunk.
So you think it makes sense to sneak faster and cheaper than you can sprint?
Sorc in full med armor and boundless storm runs faster on foot.>>>>>>>>(DC)Guild Master of Biestas 250+ Active Members<<<<<<<<||||||Vr14 Sorc: Darkened Soul vr14 Templar: Tiffaney||||||“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War1 -
Arsenic_Touch✭✭✭✭✭
✭Arsenic_Touch wrote: »Yay, looks like they're going to ruin things again.
Love how they flip flop once people start whining about it.
Ruin, a.k.a. change it so it actually makes logical sense.
Oh, and yeah. Just want to throw in that I don't care about the balance issues, I don't even PvP. The way it currently works just simply makes no logical sense, and reeks of bad implementation. And that annoys me.
Have you been under a rock? or do you not pay attention to sweeping changes such as this? when have they ever made logical changes? it's always hammer and nail with them instead of using a scalpel for precision. "Logical sense" as if that even has any merit here, ha!Edited by Arsenic_Touch on August 27, 2014 12:15AM☠ Is it better to out-monster the monster or to be quietly devoured? ☠
╔═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╗
"Hope can drown lost in thunderous sound."
"Fear can claim what little faith remains."
"Death will take those who fight alone."
"But united we can break a fate once set in stone."
╚═════════════ ೋღ☃ღೋ ══════════════╝
NA // Ebonheart Pact // Leader of CORE Legion // Namira Beta Tester // VR11 NB1 -
TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wow, this? No word on Streak breaking the cap limit? No word on shield stacking creating 0 dmg situations.
cmon.Killed by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
Youtube - The Redguard0 -
stewie_801✭✭✭Wow, this? No word on Streak breaking the cap limit? No word on shield stacking creating 0 dmg situations.
cmon.
They actually did mention streak in another thread. http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1229822
Gonna get fixed. Allegedly....PC/NA Ebonheart PactInvictus , Teut Spindle Your Brindle OfficerStewie the Destroyer Imperial Templar Former Emperor of Haderus
Stewie's Big Ole Johnson Khajiit Nightblade
Ser Arthur Dayne Dark Elf Dragonknight Former Emperor of Chillrend and Haderus
Stewie's Bank Slot High Elf Sorcerer0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I personally didn't have an issue with the sneak speeds. It was more or less harmless to me since I can't be killed with sneak. A sneak attack yes but not sneak.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)4 -
TheBull✭✭✭✭✭
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yeah just saw that. not quite as definite as this one.stewie_801 wrote: »Wow, this? No word on Streak breaking the cap limit? No word on shield stacking creating 0 dmg situations.
cmon.
They actually did mention streak in another thread. http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/1229822
Gonna get fixed. Allegedly....
So what are they going to do? Make it not stack with maneuvers?Killed by Sunshine 1vX How I see it.
Killed by Early Bright - Blood Flow - Magicka NB Build
Twitch - SunshineNB
Youtube - The Redguard0 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I never did and still don't have a problem with it. As mentioned above, you must sacrifice other advantages in order to do this. Plus it's fun as all hell. It kinda reminds me of the way an undead assassin would be able to move through the shadows at blinding speed.
But as mentioned before, hopefully they only nerf how the abilities stack rather than each individual ability. The set bonus should remain the same and the vamp bonus should remain the same. If they nerf anything at all, simply put a cap on sneak speed at 80% or something similar.1 -
Komma✭✭✭✭✭With night's silence and concealed blade I sneak at almost the exact speed as someone running. I don't see a problem with it until you throw vamps buff on top of that. Hopefully the stacking for vamps is what they are fixing. Vamps seem to have it all.Kohma Kozzy-cr160-Stamblade
Komma-cr160-Magicblade
Komma the Great-cr160-Stam DK
Kommah-cr160-Mag DK
Komma Kozzy-cr160-Mag Templar
Kommuh Kozzy-cr160-Stam Templar
Komma the White-cr160-Mag Sorc
The Tazmanian Devil-cr160-Stamsorc
OTG1 -
Ser Lobo✭✭✭✭✭
✭I personally believe, at best, a sneaking character should be able to remove all penalties to movement speed. NOT increase movement speed past normal movement conditions.
Allowing gear sets to work together with passives to negate movement speed penalties seems fine, and having more than one gear set that does this also seems fine.
The vampire passive is one of the reasons why many players go with it, and it's definitely part of the challenge. I think the proper approach would be generally considered a *buff*, whereas you change the passive to change how fast a vampire players regular movement speed is. This would in turn still allow them to have faster-than-average sprint speeds, and stealth speeds, but they wouldn't be sneaking faster than a horse or sprinting player.
To clarify: by making the vampire passive buff overall movement speed, and changing gear where it simply removes speed penalties, regular players with reduction gear/passives would be able to sneak at regular movement speed, and vampire players with reduction gear/passives would be able to sneak at the faster vampire movement speed (but not as fast as a sprinting player or galloping horse).
It's all about changing where the bonuses lie and how they are figured, not reinventing gear sets yet again.Edited by Ser Lobo on August 27, 2014 2:19AMRuze Aulus. Mayor of Dhalmora. Archer, hunter, assassin. Nightblade.
Gral. Mountain Terror. Barbarian, marauder, murderer. Nightblade.
Na'Djin. Knight-Blade. Knight, vanguard, defender. Nightblade.
XBOX NARuze is a veteran of the PC Beta, lived through the year one drought, survived the buy-to-play conversion, and has stepped foot in the hells known as Craglorn. He mained a nightlbade when nightblades weren't good, and has never worn a robe. He converted from PC during the console betas, and hasn't regretted it a moment since.
He'd rank ESO:TU (in it's current state) a 4.8 out of 5, loving the game almost entirely.
This is an multiplayer game. I should be able to log in, join a dungeon, join a battleground, queue for a dolmen or world boss or delve, teleport in, play for 20 minutes, and not worry about getting kicked, failing to join, having perfect voice coms, or being unable to complete content because someone's lagging behind. Group Finder and matchmaking is broken. Take a note from Destiny and build a system that allows from drop-in/drop-out functionality and quick play.0 -
ThisOnePosts✭✭✭✭✭As of two days ago, I no longer have a Vampire character that is VR12 (however I do have one that's low level but does not use this set). However, if they are to make that passive, which a skill point was put into.. NOT stack with the Set bonus of which people are giving up other set bonuses to get, they need to take a look at all sets and all passives and make sure they don't stack for some overpowered, high spell damage, high crit, high armor, etc.... You don't just single out one which has no efficiency in combat whatsoever. You remove all from stacking with passives. Oh... that magicka regen is nice... so it won't stack with your light armor passive.
Do one, then do them all. Otherwise, leave it be. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom I entirely believe all the sets are fine, however if you are going to nerf one when people can endlessly now spam healing springs like never before due to sets and passives, etc... then nothing should stack if you are going to take this away from the LEAST LETHAL set/passive combination in the game.2 -
twev✭✭✭✭✭
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I play AD in non-vet PvP.Hlaren_shortsheath wrote: »theres nothing wrong with it, and to be honest it's not fast enough.
immediatly if im even 1 small HAIR eye open in sneak i will loose all sneak speeds. nothing about it is involved in pvp. it only works when traveling from point A to point B
and by the way since theres a complaint about it, let me ask you one simple question that i promise will end all this entire discussion.
when your being attacked by some one or when your traveling out in the OPEN and your horse or out in the OPEN walking or running to a place and right beside you is a nightblade on your side and in your alliance, totaly hidden and traveling right next to you in your alliance and your attacked and almost dead. do you prefer that nightblade be miles behind you trying desperately to catch up to you and help you? or do you prefer that nightblade who was on your side was right with you the whole way and he was able to help defend you and even made it to help you immediatly because he had high sneak speeds? i allready know the answer - i know for a fact your alliance members in sneak with the bonuses right next to you is what you would prefer.
- lets put this to rest -
there is nothing wrong or overpowered with the sneak speed bonus - it is helping every one involved on your own side and alliance and even protecting you when even you are unaware that a friendly nightblade is right nearby because he has a sneak speed.
- nothing wrong with sneak bonus because it's immediately broken if the eye of sneak is even in the Slightest is open.
My guild isn't active in there.
I've asked a number of times in PvP while running with crowds for group invite so I could take part in communications and coordinated actions.
I never get a response.
I end up playing solo in a crowd all the time.
I've been ganked in a crowd while in the crowd moving from a FC to a battle, and almost never do they break stride to back-up a player without a group icon over their head.
That alliance nightblade?
He might as well be a mile away, cuz he aint coming to my rescue.
It's one of the reasons I'm almost done with PvP and trying to help 'my alliance'.
It took me a while to arrive at this point, but rarely do I feel a reason anymore to waste my time for 'my alliance' when nobody with a yellow icon is on my side...
NBs can walk for all I care.
The problem with society these days is that no one drinks from the skulls of their enemies anymore.3 -
lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭Damn I crafted a set and died it to look like the flash and with rapid manoeuvres and refreshing path I could sneak crazy fast. It was absolutely useless in a fight but was fun for racing my friends horse.3 -
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey guys! Just want to let you know that this shouldn't actually be happening, and will be fixed once we release Update 4. Hope that clears up any confusion!
Please tell us why this shouldn't be happening. I see no problem with it as a previous poster stated "You have to be a Vampire to get this"
Any Vampire movie or even lore there is shows Vamps being able to move super fast.
To make it even Werewolves should get this also as they are faster than humans also, just maybe not as fast as Vamps.
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Iorail✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey guys! Just want to let you know that this shouldn't actually be happening, and will be fixed once we release Update 4. Hope that clears up any confusion!
So let's recap:
1-People said it was a little fast on the PTS but it still came thru live as you have more cons than pro's by using the combo and the devs said it was fine.
2-Almost a month goes by but all of the sudden less than 5% of the server complaints is utterly OP in "PVP" cause of wtfigotpwnbsmostbeop
3-You make a statement saying is not suppose to work like this cause of PVP but none of you listened to the PTS players
4-See #1, continue this on an endless loop until you pass out.
Did I get this right?4