Audigy wrote: »

wenxue2222b16_ESO wrote: »

It is an ES game though and you know that is going to bring in a substantial number of people who have played the single player ES games. In fact that world and lore is a substantial part of its appeal. They need to tread a very difficult line between the different player groups this game appeals to. I think it is almost a unique siuation in terms of an MMO and I don't envy them the balancing act.

Its not unique, WOW is based on Warcraft which was a solo game

If you play WOW today then there is zero solo content at max level but raid after raid.

In my opinion you can solo Craglorn the question is just do you want this? If you run around Craglorn then you can just play with passer byes, you don't need an invite to do the quests.

Dungeons or trials are a different topic but you don't need them to level up.

In my opinion do you suffer like many solo gamers under the "no group learning effect" that so many MMOs have.

You never grouped until VR 10 and then you are told to group and you don't know the mechanics or have a f list for dungeons. This needs to be fixed by ZO, the answer is not solo zones or group zones as both things are not helping anyone.
The answer is group and solo content from level one onwards so that people get to know each other and learn how to group.

ESO has one of the best group systems of any MMO I played, its not about tagging mobs first but working together. Its just a shame that people don't know about this as they never group pre VR 10.

no you can't just run around craglorn and finish content because there are no other people questing or those people are not at your phase of the quest and therefore can't help you.

This is the thing that so many people bashing those who don't want to have to do the group content do not get. It is almost impossible to complete the content unless you do it with the exact same group the entire way up.

There are people that have spent months trying to finish some of the later quests because they needed 4 people at the exact same stage of the quest.

And honestly, grouping sucks in this game. If I must do pve, I would like to do it at my own pace, and probably in the mornings, when no one else really logs on.

If I wanted to sit in a group and deal with strangers all day, I would go back to EQ. EQ doesn't have phasing or anything preventing me from getting help because someone is not at a necessary stage.

Laura wrote: »

Most MMOs don't cater to solo players. Leveling is what you get usually, most people who enjoy solo games... play solo games.

I wouldn't expect to to see a lot of solo content being introduced in a group oriented game...

Actually this is not correct. Most MMOs now have so much solo content that you can easily get to level cap doing only solo PvE. Some MMOs have also gone so far as to suggest that raiders in particular "no longer matter anyway" so they have even stopped producing group content altogether.

I don't like either extreme. There needs to be a reasonable balance of things, and variety for players to choose from. It is unfortunate that the timing of content released so far is not taking this need for balance into account.

Soloeus wrote: »

MMORPG doesn't mean MUST GROUP OR DIE from the 1990's. It gives you the choice to interact with a whole world of players.

I want more Solo Content, I can't stand Trials/AA. I hate it. I hate the whole damn thing, some people are adrenaline junkies and those kids might love it, but making entire zones of it? That gives elite groupers what, 30 more skill points than everyone else?

So adding new perks to crafting lines, adding new skill lines, and the elite groupers can just do everything but if you aren't one of those types of players you have 30+ less options and no way into respectable gear.


It took me a long time to reach this point but after doing Trials/AA, I hate the level of elitism among grouping, I hate craglorn culture (and Murkmire will have the same). These players got their way by QQ and threatening to quit, and claiming they have nothing left to do.

We should start doing the same, if they want an MMO of adrenaline junkie tweenies let them have it.

I am DONE in November if something doesn't change. I don't care. The elite level of 6-12 man dungeons is not for me, and never will be. I want more content that I can play through with my easy going laid back friends who like me, move at a snails pace taking time to immerse ourselves in the game and not just running through it like hyperactive idiots.

There isn't enough content that is appealing to me being added and by the time there is, players like me will be 60+ Skill Points behind everyone else just to punish us for not being Elite Groupers. There is a lot of good in ESO but there IS a bait-and-switch involved. You are "allowed" to play how you want until endgame. Then you either have to change and become some elite hyperactive adrenaline junkie or you aren't ever going to advance again.

Your opinion could be better stated, and certainly with less hostility.

Not everyone who enjoys Trials, Craglorn, and group content in this game is an "elite hyperactive adrenaline junkie." I most certainly am not and yet I enjoy and always will enjoy group play above all other things.

Audigy wrote: »

wenxue2222b16_ESO wrote: »

It is an ES game though and you know that is going to bring in a substantial number of people who have played the single player ES games. In fact that world and lore is a substantial part of its appeal. They need to tread a very difficult line between the different player groups this game appeals to. I think it is almost a unique siuation in terms of an MMO and I don't envy them the balancing act.

Its not unique, WOW is based on Warcraft which was a solo game

If you play WOW today then there is zero solo content at max level but raid after raid.

In my opinion you can solo Craglorn the question is just do you want this? If you run around Craglorn then you can just play with passer byes, you don't need an invite to do the quests.

Dungeons or trials are a different topic but you don't need them to level up.

In my opinion do you suffer like many solo gamers under the "no group learning effect" that so many MMOs have.

You never grouped until VR 10 and then you are told to group and you don't know the mechanics or have a f list for dungeons. This needs to be fixed by ZO, the answer is not solo zones or group zones as both things are not helping anyone.
The answer is group and solo content from level one onwards so that people get to know each other and learn how to group.

ESO has one of the best group systems of any MMO I played, its not about tagging mobs first but working together. Its just a shame that people don't know about this as they never group pre VR 10.

And that is your opinion , i know quite well how to group in this game and for the most part i avoid it at all cost.

To me it is annoying and a waste of my time AND patience on most cases.

There are times where i group , like in PvP, but that is mostly for zerging and not listening to others talk and so on , but that is it.

If anything , the only good part to me about the whole VR14 thing , is that i will be able to enter and solo even more group content since my char will become even stronger.

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

wenxue2222b16_ESO wrote: »

It is an ES game though and you know that is going to bring in a substantial number of people who have played the single player ES games. In fact that world and lore is a substantial part of its appeal. They need to tread a very difficult line between the different player groups this game appeals to. I think it is almost a unique siuation in terms of an MMO and I don't envy them the balancing act.

Its not unique, WOW is based on Warcraft which was a solo game

If you play WOW today then there is zero solo content at max level but raid after raid.

In my opinion you can solo Craglorn the question is just do you want this? If you run around Craglorn then you can just play with passer byes, you don't need an invite to do the quests.

Dungeons or trials are a different topic but you don't need them to level up.

In my opinion do you suffer like many solo gamers under the "no group learning effect" that so many MMOs have.

You never grouped until VR 10 and then you are told to group and you don't know the mechanics or have a f list for dungeons. This needs to be fixed by ZO, the answer is not solo zones or group zones as both things are not helping anyone.
The answer is group and solo content from level one onwards so that people get to know each other and learn how to group.

ESO has one of the best group systems of any MMO I played, its not about tagging mobs first but working together. Its just a shame that people don't know about this as they never group pre VR 10.

And that is your opinion , i know quite well how to group in this game and for the most part i avoid it at all cost.

To me it is annoying and a waste of my time AND patience on most cases.

There are times where i group , like in PvP, but that is mostly for zerging and not listening to others talk and so on , but that is it.

If anything , the only good part to me about the whole VR14 thing , is that i will be able to enter and solo even more group content since my char will become even stronger.

So because you avoid other players, other players must do the same? Don't you think you are very selfish there?

Seriously ZO gave you the chance to just tag along with passer byes and even this is against your rule of "I don't like others and avoid them"... You don't even need to interact or talk, you can just stand by and watch while hitting the mob once or twice.

No offence but your "no others" attitude in an MMO just doesn't work out. Its like having that same attitude in RL while living in New York City.

People can choose what they want to do in life and if their choice goes hand in hand with meeting others, socializing with humans then they have to accept this or better said, they would be silly if they choose this activity / life knowing they are not up for it.

You cant marry yourself either, you need a second person for this this is how things are

Soulshine wrote: »

Laura wrote: »

Most MMOs don't cater to solo players. Leveling is what you get usually, most people who enjoy solo games... play solo games.

I wouldn't expect to to see a lot of solo content being introduced in a group oriented game...

Actually this is not correct. Most MMOs now have so much solo content that you can easily get to level cap doing only solo PvE. Some MMOs have also gone so far as to suggest that raiders in particular "no longer matter anyway" so they have even stopped producing group content altogether.

I don't like either extreme. There needs to be a reasonable balance of things, and variety for players to choose from. It is unfortunate that the timing of content released so far is not taking this need for balance into account.

First of all, you can get to max level at ESO without any group activity involved. Level 50 is the maximum not VR 14. The VR system is just what players can do once they capped their char, its like the Elder system at WS.

Secondly, the crux with "solo to max level" is that people don't learn how to group or socialize. Therefore they will ultimately run into big trouble once they reached max level.

WOW is the best example for this. At Vanilla and partly TBC everyone that reached 60 or 70 had such a massive f list that he could theoretically run dungeons or raids 24/7. Besides that most players were in a very active guild.

If you play WOW today you get to level 90 and your f list stays empty and you are not in any active guild environment.

Do you see the problem there?

Once people are 90 they cant progress as they don't have the social skills and contacts for it.

What you describe as "good" is actually what ruins MMOs since about 6 years.

An MMO needs to encourage social activities right from level 1 so that everyone who is interested can learn about how to interact with other gamers.

The whole Elitism scene developed from that strong anti group content in MMOs, at Vanilla WOW or EQ nobody would ever ask for your GS because people were a community and played side by side for fun.

Today also at ESO its all about what class you play, the DPS you do or if you have TS. I think its sad that you guys wont see it, the devils you hate are the devils you brought on yourself actually. :'(

magnusnet wrote: »

Pangnirtung wrote: »

@magnusnet, I don't see why how I like to play is any of your concern when I am saying, more power to the group players.

I can choose to group when I want, that is an MMOG. Being forced to group in the higher levels of the game is not my choice. Not everyone here thinks the same way as you. I don't expect you to think the way that I do.

Expecting to play everything in an MMORPG alone is unrealistic. IMO and in the minds of many there is too much solo content. Many of us had to grindfest to VR12 just to actually feel like we're playing an MMO. Don't want more of that, sorry and it's already a big mistake that the game is soloable till VR10.

1) In every single MMO I have played (a dozen+ in the last 15 years) levelling up was possible to do in solo.
Enter the VR 10 => VR 14 new grind... where's the standard for every MMO level up content?

2) Your approach to ESO is wrong. In case the quite unique mechanics did not make it clear, ESO is not your regular vanilla MMO. ESO comes from solo player games and has attracted a lot of TES players. ZoS knows this, everyone knows this... except you.

3) What you say also shows you don't seem to play the same game everybody else plays. Even those who love to group (I do trials) just CANNOT find your beloved group content even if they want. Nobody wants to group in Craglorn if not to grind. The few who do, slam their face in unsurpassable obstacles, like group members finding locked doors inside instances just because they are not "synced" at the same quest line step the others are.


Basically,

- ESO baited players for months before release about being a "TES with multiplayer".

- ESO baited players with soloable 1-50 content.

- ESO further baited players by removing VR 1- VR 10 "group suggested" difficulty.

- At VR 12 you are FORCED to ALWAYS group yet you seldom find compatible people to do such forced group content.

- Next expansion is a kick in the face: no way to solo level up like in every single MMO (even B-- grade ones), only forced group content that past the first 2 weeks will be impossible to find a group for again. Repeating the grand Craglorn failure all over again.



My suggestion to solo players: don't look at fancy pets, mass unsub. MMO companies NEVER hear anything except their shareholders concerns.

Audigy wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

wenxue2222b16_ESO wrote: »

It is an ES game though and you know that is going to bring in a substantial number of people who have played the single player ES games. In fact that world and lore is a substantial part of its appeal. They need to tread a very difficult line between the different player groups this game appeals to. I think it is almost a unique siuation in terms of an MMO and I don't envy them the balancing act.

Its not unique, WOW is based on Warcraft which was a solo game

If you play WOW today then there is zero solo content at max level but raid after raid.

In my opinion you can solo Craglorn the question is just do you want this? If you run around Craglorn then you can just play with passer byes, you don't need an invite to do the quests.

Dungeons or trials are a different topic but you don't need them to level up.

In my opinion do you suffer like many solo gamers under the "no group learning effect" that so many MMOs have.

You never grouped until VR 10 and then you are told to group and you don't know the mechanics or have a f list for dungeons. This needs to be fixed by ZO, the answer is not solo zones or group zones as both things are not helping anyone.
The answer is group and solo content from level one onwards so that people get to know each other and learn how to group.

ESO has one of the best group systems of any MMO I played, its not about tagging mobs first but working together. Its just a shame that people don't know about this as they never group pre VR 10.

And that is your opinion , i know quite well how to group in this game and for the most part i avoid it at all cost.

To me it is annoying and a waste of my time AND patience on most cases.

There are times where i group , like in PvP, but that is mostly for zerging and not listening to others talk and so on , but that is it.

If anything , the only good part to me about the whole VR14 thing , is that i will be able to enter and solo even more group content since my char will become even stronger.

So because you avoid other players, other players must do the same? Don't you think you are very selfish there?

Seriously ZO gave you the chance to just tag along with passer byes and even this is against your rule of "I don't like others and avoid them"... You don't even need to interact or talk, you can just stand by and watch while hitting the mob once or twice.

No offence but your "no others" attitude in an MMO just doesn't work out. Its like having that same attitude in RL while living in New York City.

People can choose what they want to do in life and if their choice goes hand in hand with meeting others, socializing with humans then they have to accept this or better said, they would be silly if they choose this activity / life knowing they are not up for it.

You cant marry yourself either, you need a second person for this this is how things are

@‌Audigy

You got to love posts like yours. "I dont want to have to play your way so you have to play my way" you do realize that that is what you just said in that post right? You dont want to play solo so he should have to play the way you like.

Nothing in this thread has said that there should be no group content, all its asking for is a way to get there solo as well.

If you ask me I think this is one of the things that SWTOR actually got right. you can do 90% of things in the game solo, even get end game gear, its just a lot faster, easier, and cheaper to do it in a group!

Why do people keep ignoring the very valid points I've made about group content and simply not being able to complete it?

Your points are invalidated by it and yet you refuse to address it.

I still don't get how a group of 12 is in anyway more massive than a group of 1 when there are 100s of people on the map at the same time.
All I hear is MMO is for group content from guilds and MMO players with years of baggage to shape their view on what an MMO should be.
No its not...MMO is for massive number of players and we all mingle quite happily all over tamriel (soloist and groupist alike).

If some of you weren't so pig headed you might even see an opportunity to reduce server load which is crippling everything. If you had instances for 1-12 players....one of those players could take on a server role like many multiplayer rpgs have been doing since day 1.

That way world play & PVP speeds up as many players are offloaded from the main server and the bandwidth required on the servers reduced.
Solo players get uninterrupted content at full speed.
Group players get their uniterrupted content with their choice of friends upto 12 (performance dependent on friends ISPs).
PVP World players get increased performance with reduced loads.
PVE World players also see reduced loads at peek times if players are offloaded to 3rd party networks when entering dungeons/zones.
Hell everyone gets what they want and also socialises when not in the 1-12 player instances.

But ...oh no...because MMO = group /facepalm.
The MMO side for me lets me see prospective friends in world play.
Some of those friends I might like to team up with as they grow.
But its always going to be 2, then 3 then 4 or more friends and a place needs to be made to house that expanding team or "myself" if they aint around.
A place where me and/or my group can then go off to together and adventure.

These solo/group instances I separate from world play as you don't want the whole world interfering with your gameplay and strategy that you and your friends may have. But the World where everyone meets and grows is just as essential.

Soulshine wrote: »

Soloeus wrote: »

MMORPG doesn't mean MUST GROUP OR DIE from the 1990's. It gives you the choice to interact with a whole world of players.

I want more Solo Content, I can't stand Trials/AA. I hate it. I hate the whole damn thing, some people are adrenaline junkies and those kids might love it, but making entire zones of it? That gives elite groupers what, 30 more skill points than everyone else?

So adding new perks to crafting lines, adding new skill lines, and the elite groupers can just do everything but if you aren't one of those types of players you have 30+ less options and no way into respectable gear.


It took me a long time to reach this point but after doing Trials/AA, I hate the level of elitism among grouping, I hate craglorn culture (and Murkmire will have the same). These players got their way by QQ and threatening to quit, and claiming they have nothing left to do.

We should start doing the same, if they want an MMO of adrenaline junkie tweenies let them have it.

I am DONE in November if something doesn't change. I don't care. The elite level of 6-12 man dungeons is not for me, and never will be. I want more content that I can play through with my easy going laid back friends who like me, move at a snails pace taking time to immerse ourselves in the game and not just running through it like hyperactive idiots.

There isn't enough content that is appealing to me being added and by the time there is, players like me will be 60+ Skill Points behind everyone else just to punish us for not being Elite Groupers. There is a lot of good in ESO but there IS a bait-and-switch involved. You are "allowed" to play how you want until endgame. Then you either have to change and become some elite hyperactive adrenaline junkie or you aren't ever going to advance again.

Your opinion could be better stated, and certainly with less hostility.

Not everyone who enjoys Trials, Craglorn, and group content in this game is an "elite hyperactive adrenaline junkie." I most certainly am not and yet I enjoy and always will enjoy group play above all other things.

My post isn't hostile just like it isn't hostile to accuse people who complain about Bat Swarm of being newbs who just stand in AOE's and advising them to roll dodge.

I like Casual Grouping, and I don't mind listening to Teamspeak when I need to. What I don't like is the environment of Mad Max that Craglorn and some Vet Dungeons force you in. I don't like the constant forced running, where if even one person makes one error... or even one luck based thing happens... Negate runs out, or Barrier runs out, or Veil of Blades runs out and everyone is insta-wiped. You are 2 points too low on mana to cast Annulment or even if you do, the casting time lags a second and you are wiped.

Once in a while, I don't mind this, it can be refreshing to do. What I hate, is having 2 entire zones of Skill Points, Quests and Content locked away. New Skills (10 instead of 9) will likely soon be added to all crafting lines (as a choicenerf) and with new skill lines being added, people who don't do those zones will lose 15+ skill points. That means since you won't have the skill points to invest more points into doing what you already can do, you will be able to do less and have no ability to get back to where you were before, because its all locked behind this content. Let alone getting more.

I don't even mind that its one Zone. But 2-3? With new skill lines? That shuts too many players out of too much of the game.

Is that better?

I didn't use labels, I defined my stance. The choice words I used were selected because they describe how I feel about things. Use one descriptive term and get lectured at about generalizations and stereotypes.

Also, you will see hostile communication all over the forum, its a norm and its allowed when you are attacking a "complainer" so I don't see a problem with using hostile language when not targeting complainers. I am not attacking or pointing at anyone, no harm done.

No offense, but you have made 2 posts criticizing me without really saying anything about the content of my posts other than to argue semantics. If you have nothing to say about my points, then goodbye.

magnusnet wrote: »

Who cares? This is not an RPG. It's not a solo game.

Wow... Not an RPG? Well that's weird, it clearly has RPG, in the genre's name... I'm confused, and would love to see an explanation of how it's not an RPG.

Soulshine wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

Laura wrote: »

Most MMOs don't cater to solo players. Leveling is what you get usually, most people who enjoy solo games... play solo games.

I wouldn't expect to to see a lot of solo content being introduced in a group oriented game...

Actually this is not correct. Most MMOs now have so much solo content that you can easily get to level cap doing only solo PvE. Some MMOs have also gone so far as to suggest that raiders in particular "no longer matter anyway" so they have even stopped producing group content altogether.

I don't like either extreme. There needs to be a reasonable balance of things, and variety for players to choose from. It is unfortunate that the timing of content released so far is not taking this need for balance into account.

First of all, you can get to max level at ESO without any group activity involved. Level 50 is the maximum not VR 14. The VR system is just what players can do once they capped their char, its like the Elder system at WS.

Secondly, the crux with "solo to max level" is that people don't learn how to group or socialize. Therefore they will ultimately run into big trouble once they reached max level.

WOW is the best example for this. At Vanilla and partly TBC everyone that reached 60 or 70 had such a massive f list that he could theoretically run dungeons or raids 24/7. Besides that most players were in a very active guild.

If you play WOW today you get to level 90 and your f list stays empty and you are not in any active guild environment.

Do you see the problem there?

Once people are 90 they cant progress as they don't have the social skills and contacts for it.

What you describe as "good" is actually what ruins MMOs since about 6 years.

An MMO needs to encourage social activities right from level 1 so that everyone who is interested can learn about how to interact with other gamers.

The whole Elitism scene developed from that strong anti group content in MMOs, at Vanilla WOW or EQ nobody would ever ask for your GS because people were a community and played side by side for fun.

Today also at ESO its all about what class you play, the DPS you do or if you have TS. I think its sad that you guys wont see it, the devils you hate are the devils you brought on yourself actually. :'(

To repeat eralier posts on this, I am not speaking on this thread because I personally have issues with group content. I have been playing MMOs for years. I have always raided in the games I played. That is what I enjoy. I do not need an education in the trends in those games; I was in them and experienced what happened to them first hand.

What I also know is that the more people insist on one type of content over another as more important, THAT is when the game goes to hell.

While I personally am happy about having more group content, hardmode added to Trials etc., because that is what I enjoy in ANY game I play, I am not going to ignore that there is a very large (possibly a majority of people) playing TESO that are here to explore the game solo, without completing group content of any kind - and to most certainly do so beyond level 50 and into veteran ranks. ZoS let that shipo sail already so to be surprised that some folks are asking why is pretty illogical.

I see nothing wrong with them being disappointed that there is no ETA on Wrothgar for example since that is apparently the most likely place that they will again get a full on solo questing zone.

I was a part of your group once, the hardcore raid faction so to speak and I quit this several years ago.

To me an MMO is all about meeting others, that's why I play them and while I quit the whole raiding society I still want to interact with others.

And exactly this collides with the people who demand everything solo. In my previous post I described my feelings towards this.

To be forced to play solo from 1-50 is a big let down for me, I play heal or tank so I get all my fun from others around me. Yet its impossible to play together as people take no damage, don't need a tank or just kill faster than I am landing a hit myself.

Since I am a very tolerant person I accepted this as I knew that from VR 1 - 10 I will get my MMO and interaction with others so to speak. But before I actually managed to get my Chars to VR1 that content was removed due the demands of those "all solo" gamers.

My only motivation right now is VR 12 and VR 14 and if this is also removed due their demands then I simply put have nothing left in that game. I cant be the only person thinking like that, there must be more people who are not interested in trials or dungeons but the open world questing who see "their" content in danger.

The same development WOW took, I first didn't notice it due my raiding schedule but when I quit I was left with nothing to do there.

The answer can and should not be that everyone who likes interaction must do trials or dungeons so that the rest can be solo. This is an awkward design choice that I cant support.

In my opinion the reasoning of those "all solo" people is very self focused and they don't see that there are people who actually enjoy the open world adventures with others.

Audigy wrote: »

DragonLane555 wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

wenxue2222b16_ESO wrote: »

It is an ES game though and you know that is going to bring in a substantial number of people who have played the single player ES games. In fact that world and lore is a substantial part of its appeal. They need to tread a very difficult line between the different player groups this game appeals to. I think it is almost a unique siuation in terms of an MMO and I don't envy them the balancing act.

Its not unique, WOW is based on Warcraft which was a solo game

If you play WOW today then there is zero solo content at max level but raid after raid.

In my opinion you can solo Craglorn the question is just do you want this? If you run around Craglorn then you can just play with passer byes, you don't need an invite to do the quests.

Dungeons or trials are a different topic but you don't need them to level up.

In my opinion do you suffer like many solo gamers under the "no group learning effect" that so many MMOs have.

You never grouped until VR 10 and then you are told to group and you don't know the mechanics or have a f list for dungeons. This needs to be fixed by ZO, the answer is not solo zones or group zones as both things are not helping anyone.
The answer is group and solo content from level one onwards so that people get to know each other and learn how to group.

ESO has one of the best group systems of any MMO I played, its not about tagging mobs first but working together. Its just a shame that people don't know about this as they never group pre VR 10.

And that is your opinion , i know quite well how to group in this game and for the most part i avoid it at all cost.

To me it is annoying and a waste of my time AND patience on most cases.

There are times where i group , like in PvP, but that is mostly for zerging and not listening to others talk and so on , but that is it.

If anything , the only good part to me about the whole VR14 thing , is that i will be able to enter and solo even more group content since my char will become even stronger.

So because you avoid other players, other players must do the same? Don't you think you are very selfish there?

Seriously ZO gave you the chance to just tag along with passer byes and even this is against your rule of "I don't like others and avoid them"... You don't even need to interact or talk, you can just stand by and watch while hitting the mob once or twice.

No offence but your "no others" attitude in an MMO just doesn't work out. Its like having that same attitude in RL while living in New York City.

People can choose what they want to do in life and if their choice goes hand in hand with meeting others, socializing with humans then they have to accept this or better said, they would be silly if they choose this activity / life knowing they are not up for it.

You cant marry yourself either, you need a second person for this this is how things are

@‌Audigy

You got to love posts like yours. "I dont want to have to play your way so you have to play my way" you do realize that that is what you just said in that post right? You dont want to play solo so he should have to play the way you like.

Nothing in this thread has said that there should be no group content, all its asking for is a way to get there solo as well.

If you ask me I think this is one of the things that SWTOR actually got right. you can do 90% of things in the game solo, even get end game gear, its just a lot faster, easier, and cheaper to do it in a group!

Nowhere did I say that I don't want to play solo, what I said was that I don't want people like him destroy MMOs any further because they want everything solo without group activities.

1-50 was all solo and while I felt it was a mistake to have level up content fully focused on solo play I did accept this as there was the great VR content still available. But this wasn't enough for him, no he and the others supporting his view now demanded that also the VR content had to be solo and ZO did cater to their demands and destroyed VR 1-10.

You need to understand one thing, there are people playing MMOs who don't have the time or attitude to raid and for them all they got are those open world group activities to enjoy their MMO time.

Right now VR 12 and in future VR 14 is all that group oriented non raiders have. It is incredible selfish to demand that they lose all their content for even more solo content. No offence but 1-50 and VR 1-10 is already solo what else do these people want? They have the most content already in the game and still try to deny everyone else their content.

Its just greedy and this is something I can not support whether you like it or not

And you keep going around the issue doesnt matter how many times people repeat it to you just to try to make your point , which is funny if anything.

People already said multiple times , the issue is that craglorn is the zone for PvE players to get from vet10 to 14 AND it is a GROUP ONLY zone. It is that simple.

If zen had made craglorn vet1 to 10 , so that players could avoid the solo questing and actually do group content to get VR10 , you would notice a lot less complains.

Because it would be an OPTION to players , you either solo your way questing or you group up do craglorn , both ways will leave you vet10 , no issue.

BUT that is not the case , solo players are left on vet10 and all they have ahead is group content to reach lvl cap , it is that simple.

The entire end game is group focused , which is ofc absurd , while slow , even zen is not that blind , reason they did announce they will add eventually god knows when a zone for the solo players to do stuff.

Before i would hope that this zone had also stuff for groups , but after seen so many of these posts , i hope it is like craglorn , 100% pure solo stuff , no dolmens/no group dungeons , NOTHING that offers anything to groups , so that most of these players saty out of there just like we are locked out of craglorn because it offers nothing to the solo players.

If everyone wanted what craglorn has to offer , probably a lot less would just grind the hell out of it and then leave it. Which will happen once again when they add VR14.