Stonesthrow wrote: »

How dare they give me more content, stupid MMO…

A couple more levels and new gear? New Mini-Trial? New half-a-zone? More quests, achieves, mobs, dungeons and loot? New trait and new matts maybe? Those jerks…. the nerve...

I wanted to wait a year before I had to do new stuff. WTF!!!

To think... I could have used up all my gold upgrade materials after they announced the Champion System is coming down the pike and then they reshuffled all the traits on the gear sets. I felt really confident that with Champion a few months away (probably) that the best thing I could do was use up at least a hundred grand in gold on matts to squeeeeeek out those few points of uber leetness. Seemed like the right move, sorry I didn't partake now. And if I had, I could have come to a forum and whined about it. Maybe even quit! Over gear… wow.

That said… I REALLY will have to uber upgrade my new VR14 goodies because that will really be it before Champion goes into play I bet… /facepalm

Where is my Rosin? Where is my Bow? I need to fiddle…

TLDR: To bad, not telling.

@ZOS… Keep up the good work! Looking forward to most of what you have stated is coming.

I somewhat agree . but the post launch managment , implementation, direction, armor imbalances, melee imbalances, exploits, and poor itemization lower craglorn brought. it's hard to applaud their decisions not the effort.

They need to implement what they talked about in june Scaling of Vr dungeons to leader and the rewards , reitemization of Vr dungeons to have the powerful non set double enchant gear.

the problem is most of the content was already obsolete due to the reward system , balance. Crafted being far superior to everything aside from a few 5 piece blue set drops.

something is wrong when the gear progression can happen with out actually playing the content. that does not work well for theme park. It's a great progression for sand box as it forces interatction amongst the crafting community and makes them dependent upon one another. this system is pretty baffling

Not like it matters what our opinions are on these type of things as ZoS will do what they want, but I figured i'd chime in on my thoughts...

There is a strong chance this update will be the last for me. When I started ESO in beta, I enjoyed it a lot almost more than any other game I have played over the last 17 years. I knew there were a lot of bugs and issues with the game but said, "if they take this game in the right direction and correct a lot of these issues, this could be one of the best MMOs ever made".

Over the last several months ZoS has made a tremendous amount of changes to the game, some bad, some good, and some that really didn't bother me. As time went on, more changes that I didn't like happened, and disappointed me. I continued to stand by and support it and adapt to the changes and adjust my play styles to fit the direction ESO was headed.

After watching the Quakecon panel I was excited to see a few things in there I was wanting. Certain changes to pvp, the justice system, and a few other things. The champion system was weird, but looked like it could be cool. After learning more about the champion system, I was under the impression that the level increases would slow down and the champion system would give a more horizontal means to improving our toons.

So when 1.3 was released I spent countless hours redoing all my gear sets (and being pissed raid gear was able to be traded) and figuring out what I wanted to do with my toon. For the first time in the game I decided to go all out with my gear and took 3 full sets of gear to legendary, with legendary enchants and everything. I dumped over 400k gold into my sets, and I figured the level cap wasn't going up for awhile, and with the massive changes to the gear sets they would probably stay that was for awhile.

So here we are at update 1.4. The level cap is increasing and 1 new trial, and this arena thing comes out. First off the new arena is a joke, and was beat on PTS last night already. The new trial at first glance doesn't really seem that much different than the first 2 trials. There was also not much done on the pvp side. At this point, there just isn't enough in this game to continue to keep me entertained. Not to mention most of my friends from beta and launch have already quit the game and moved on...I'm afraid it's getting close to my time to move on as well.

Rammi wrote: »

ZOS created a wonderful experience up until VR levels. Then they got lazy and created a gear centric grind that removed any focus around the journey and made it a race to get gear not evolve with the ride.

I have always maintained that progression kills great experiences as if people are gated from something or they are expected to do something that is not pleasurable to get to that experience well then it ruins the experience.

The easiest way i can get this across is instead of going through the whole process of adding two new VR levels, which includes scaling bosses, scaling gear, QA everything to make sure it works. why not spend the same effort on new public dungeons and getting imperial city out the door, you know actual experiences that players can enjoy.

Its a pretty simple answer and it evolves time and money! They want to make more money for the least amount of effort on their part and gear grinds and level caps are how you achieve that.

You really think they sat in some design review meeting early this year and someone said "Well, those time and resource estimates for some amazing end-game system that will last until the expansion without being in any way gear-centric are completely feasible, but it sounds like too much work, let's do something easier so we can all go home early"? They only make more money if they attract new customers, you think their marketing department got the market research back and said "Hey, forget that shiny new content, what will totally get people who weren't interested before to buy the game is two new levels at the cap"?

I'll be the first to acknowledge that software development can be an odd business, but it is generally run as a business; high-level design decisions usually aren't banged out half-assed because someone wanted to go to lunch early.

If by cancel my Sub over a few lvls, you mean rage quit, scream, cry, not get my way and having to change my gear to a new lvl that only provides a marginal increase at best, and I would still probably change either way down the road depending on what they come out with and how I update and expand my playstyle?

Then No sadly, maybe I'm smoking something, but imo nothing new to me. MMO's grow, expand, and change all the time, and while some things may seem like a step back, in the longer run they'll always be steps forward for the future development of the game.

deathmasterl_ESO wrote: »

If by cancel my Sub over a few lvls, you mean rage quit, scream, cry, not get my way and having to change my gear to a new lvl that only provides a marginal increase at best, and I would still probably change either way down the road depending on what they come out with and how I update and expand my playstyle?

Then No sadly, maybe I'm smoking something, but imo nothing new to me. MMO's grow, expand, and change all the time, and while some things may seem like a step back, in the longer run they'll always be steps forward for the future development of the game.

What's another MMO that has increased the level cap twice and forced their players to replace end game gear three times in a four month period?

I'm enjoying the ride to cap... so I don't have a problem with a longer ride. I don't get this materialistic bent on most complaints here... all I hear is how upset everyone will be because they'll eventually get new armor. Won't that same armor stay viable until your new cap where then you can start gathering a new set? Big deal.

I was having fun in PVP too before even being VR..

lol wut?
People really threatening to quit because they are adding two more levels and a bunch of content?

Seems more like a bunch of children throwing a temper tantrum because they don't want to eat their vegetables....

rekina wrote: »

I'm so glad to see that at least there are 10% or more people would unsub with me upon vet 14 arrival. This might be not a huge financial damage to ZoS, but I'd like to give some at least for this mindless decision.

WOW lost 40% after WOTLK, did it change anything? No it didn't

MMOs don't need millions of subs to work, a few hundred k are more than enough

rekina wrote: »

I'm so glad to see that at least there are 10% or more people would unsub with me upon vet 14 arrival. This might be not a huge financial damage to ZoS, but I'd like to give some at least for this mindless decision.

I am glad to see that 90% would not. Those 90% being the non-whiners. And given that some of that 10% are just BSing for the sake of the poll, I will bet it is a lot less - maybe just you.

gotta be dumb to quit over something like this, everyone only wants to get to cap as fast as possible to pvp but no one wants to work for it. maybe if everyone didn't turn into grinding fools you'd have people to do quests and *** with but noooooo no one wants that.

they just want max lvl, this is an mmo its going to be here for a long time its suppose to take time to get to the top. but people just wont have it will they. nope. but hey people will always find ways of getting to max lvl with the least effort and then it ruins it for everyone else.

DDuke wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

It's an MMO. You're never going to be at the end. Deal with it.

That's a paradox.

In most MMOs you'll be doing end-game content once you're finished leveling, so in a way you're at "the end", but then an expansion comes out with a new leveling period, so you're no longer at the end.

The difference is, most MMOs release these big expansions/patches yearly, and they contain much, much more content than Craglorn.

Big expansions yes, but every time a new raid tier is added you must start from scratch.

I don't understand why this seems to be fine for some but actual new content wont?

At WOW you have three months to finish a raid tier, after this amount of time a new raid is released and your current gear becomes worthless. Especially in pvp this is a big issue, I hated that but also at PVE you will notice quite fast that you are no longer done but at the start again.

But its not all about items its also about content becoming obsolete. At WOW trying to do a raid or dungeon from the start of the expansion is impossible once the second tier is out. You simply put wont find anyone to run that dungeon with you, as its worthless.

With the VR system this wont happen as the content is level content and this everyone has to do. So if you are VR 10 in a year then you will still have people playing with you so that you can do Craglorn

Kewljag_66_ESO wrote: »

FunkheaD wrote: »

Hi all,

I rarely am one for rage-posts and in most cases I'm a fairly peaceful forum lurker, however this recent news of the incoming increase to VR ranks has really effected my desire to play this game any longer.

Many of us have already spoken our minds in other threads on this topic however I think it's important that ZOS understands how strongly some of us feel about this topic.

I will be cancelling my subscription if I feel that I am in any way forced to grind gear and/or further VR levels to competitively PvP.

What will you be doing and why?

You do realize they are changing the system to the Champion System soon right? So until then V14 is giving us something to do to improve our character and will let us have the equivelent champion points of V14 when that system takes place.

whoa whoa get your logic outta here these people don't want to hear it

DDuke wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Pallmor wrote: »

It's an MMO. You're never going to be at the end. Deal with it.

That's a paradox.

In most MMOs you'll be doing end-game content once you're finished leveling, so in a way you're at "the end", but then an expansion comes out with a new leveling period, so you're no longer at the end.

The difference is, most MMOs release these big expansions/patches yearly, and they contain much, much more content than Craglorn.

Big expansions yes, but every time a new raid tier is added you must start from scratch.

I don't understand why this seems to be fine for some but actual new content wont?

At WOW you have three months to finish a raid tier, after this amount of time a new raid is released and your current gear becomes worthless. Especially in pvp this is a big issue, I hated that but also at PVE you will notice quite fast that you are no longer done but at the start again.

But its not all about items its also about content becoming obsolete. At WOW trying to do a raid or dungeon from the start of the expansion is impossible once the second tier is out. You simply put wont find anyone to run that dungeon with you, as its worthless.

With the VR system this wont happen as the content is level content and this everyone has to do. So if you are VR 10 in a year then you will still have people playing with you so that you can do Craglorn

That is simply not true.

Back in the days I played WoW (vanilla/TBC), you pretty much had to get Tier 1 gear to even have a shot at Tier 2 (BWL). Gear never became worthless, not until TBC was launched (which is when the level grind continued). You also had guilds running Molten Core just to get the gear to advance further in BWL. Also, it took the first guild 3 months (if I recall correctly) to clear Molten Core. Three months. In ESO Trials were cleared on the PTS, but this is off-topic.

Vanilla and TBC yes, but Blizzard changed this system with WOTLK.

I know very well what it meant to get items at Vanilla we worked our butts off at MC too, when we had our gear we could move on to BWL etc.

This however was because of specific boni on the set pieces, mainly resistances. You also had to kill dragons for AQ resistance gear etc.

Such a system however is very "newbie" unfriendly. It was incredible hard to find people for your guild that stood inside Naxx as there was no catch up system.

It was a double edged sword so to speak. Content stayed current at any time, but it also was very hard to find people for your guild especially in the later tier.


With WOTLK Blizzard changed this so that your gear that you raided for wasn't so important anymore. They released vendors that sold you that gear for a few gold or some points as soon a new raid was released. This lead to a big issue for those who wanted to experience that old content as simply put the greed was too strong with people so that they just bought that gear now instead of going to the dungeon or raid.

ZO announced a similar system at Quakecon and this would lead to the same problem that WOW suffers under now.

Therefore I see VR as a way to keep the content current at all times. In future and this is my hope, those VR levels will gate content so that people who are VR 10 will do Craglorn and not just go to a vendor and buy Craglorn gear so that they can skip it.

If this is how it will work out? I don't know, its just what I hope.