Stop incrementally increasing the level cap. Stop it. Just stop.
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Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭The trouble with raising the level cap with every content release is that it makes all previous top tier content out of date. If you keep the level cap static for all but major expansions, then when you release new dungeons, trials etc. you broaden the endgame. As it is, the Devs are currently replacing one rather limited range of options with another.
Given, for example, the amount of time it takes for a team of programmers to create a trial, surely it is more sensible and economical NOT to make it obsolete within three months?
What you say is not true.
Have you played WOW in the past 6 years? Every three or four months Blizzard releases a new raid tier. Everything else then automatically turns dead and becomes a ghost town and all items become useless.
I was trying to do a raid at Cata as I wanted the achievement and guess what... nobody was up for it because the new raid tier was already released.
At the VR system this wont happen that fast. You can do the VR1 or 10 or the 12 or the 14 and you will always have players around as its the level content that everyone has to go through.
"Endgame" has never been bright or large at WOW, it was always about 1 raid and nothing else.
The problem is there are no VR 14 dungeons lol. your gonna get *** designed closet delves and a new trial . Bravo....... they could have just done what they said they were gonna do months ago and scale all the Vr dungeons to leader lvl . and reitemize the Vr dungeons so they had usefull items.0 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Super_Sonico wrote: »smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »They have still not been clear on whether they will ultimately remove vet ranks or not.
No other games increases the level cap like this. Including games that are all about the grind. You get a 5 level increase once or twice a year. That's it. At that time you can grind up those levels and then upgrade your gear afterwards.
Then go play another game. I'm glad this game is different. I want evolving content.smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »Constantly raising the level cap might appease what is left of the content locusts in the game but some of us want to enjoy playing instead of constantly being forced into this tedious treadmill.
It's your choice to view it as a 'tedious treadmill'. It's actually not for a lot of players. We enjoy the content by playing the game, just like we did with every other game in the TES series.smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »I just stopped using legendary mats and started selling them because it is pointless to improve my gear. I'm starting to question making them purple either.
And with this increase we are not getting anymore crafted sets, while we get more and more pve achieved sets, all of which are relevant and preferable in pvp. You HAVE to pve currently to be viable in pvp and that is ***.
This game is not based on PvP play. PvP is an extension from a base game built on The Elder Scrolls series which has much more to it. If you want a game based on PvP, go play WoW or CoD. The heart of this game is the Elder Scrolls content, which is not centered in PvP but in PvE. It really sounds like you should go back to WoW.
lol the endgame for ESO is pvp, so yea, it is based on pvp. And yes I am aware there is a vocal faction of pve'rs who insist that they are priority in everything.
Why should I have to play another game? Why don't you play another one instead? There's nothing different about this, they just lowered the treadmill time so you are constantly running.
As for the content of this game versus TES games, I don't remember TES having a gear treadmill. Perhaps I am wrong. :?.
It's not a sound strategy as far as game direction goes, even if a few mindless pve'rs like it.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.3 -
Soloeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭I honestly don't know what the logic behind increasing the level cap is in such small, but frequent stages, but I'm not seeing it. Every single person I've spoken to about it does not want this change. Moving from VR10, to VR 12, to VR 14 in less than six months is ridiculous. The reasons for this are numerous, especially in PVP:
PVP becomes a rat race once again, where people are scrambling to get to the top level, get the sky shards, complete the quests, get the skill points needed to make sure they and their faction doesn't lose the edge against others.
Upgrading gear, especially gear that is a drop chance, to top vet legendary level is nigh unto impossible in this period of time.
Upgrade mats are expensive, and for people that have more than one character upgraded to top Vet level with good gear, PVE or PVP, is a laborious task. Getting the skills, the upgrade mats through refining chance, hirelings, or buying the materials in open world trade (which you encourage) strips a large portion of the enjoyment away for people. One piece of gear requires eight legendary mats to upgrade, and assuming you buy even half, that's 12k per item, 60k for a complete set, not including weapons.
It is IMPOSSIBLE for someone who games, say, two to three hours a day.
Please, Zenimax, listen to your player base. Please stop increasing the level cap like that. Release your content, fine. Release areas and quests and whatever you want. But leave the level cap for AT LEAST six months at a time.
Please.
And player base, please voice your agreement.
Raising level caps keeps the game unfun.
I am bored with boring questing and I just want the Champion System.
New levels means new levels of Mats, and I don't want that trash.
STOP IT!!
Within; Without.6 -
Anastasia✭✭✭✭Maverick827 wrote: »
Yeah, this is pretty much MMO Endgame PvE 101 stuff. VR12 Craglorn content will be useless now, and most people haven't even stepped foot inside yet.The trouble with raising the level cap with every content release is that it makes all previous top tier content out of date. If you keep the level cap static for all but major expansions, then when you release new dungeons, trials etc. you broaden the endgame. As it is, the Devs are currently replacing one rather limited range of options with another.
Given, for example, the amount of time it takes for a team of programmers to create a trial, surely it is more sensible and economical NOT to make it obsolete within three months?
This is stuff that WoW got right from day one when the genre was still growing up. How someone manages to get it wrong a decade later is amazing in a bad way.
Agreed. I really hope the Champion system will introduce this kind of progression (and soon, preferably pre-Murkmire).
I was somewhat anticipating a VR cap increase with this patch, but some small part of me kept the hope alive that they'd just add another layer of gear progression. Those hopes were brutally crushed
Is everyone forgetting the SEASONAL GEAR they mentioned at Quakecon -- that goes hand-in-hand with changing the Vet ranks experience gains over to perks from the Champion System. Calm down; its interconnected.
Edited by Anastasia on August 19, 2014 11:34PM1 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Another level cap increase? Already? WHY?
Just enough to force you to buy new gear mats all over again and no solo questing content to achieve it?
*sigh*0 -
Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wifeaggro13 wrote: »The trouble with raising the level cap with every content release is that it makes all previous top tier content out of date. If you keep the level cap static for all but major expansions, then when you release new dungeons, trials etc. you broaden the endgame. As it is, the Devs are currently replacing one rather limited range of options with another.
Given, for example, the amount of time it takes for a team of programmers to create a trial, surely it is more sensible and economical NOT to make it obsolete within three months?
What you say is not true.
Have you played WOW in the past 6 years? Every three or four months Blizzard releases a new raid tier. Everything else then automatically turns dead and becomes a ghost town and all items become useless.
I was trying to do a raid at Cata as I wanted the achievement and guess what... nobody was up for it because the new raid tier was already released.
At the VR system this wont happen that fast. You can do the VR1 or 10 or the 12 or the 14 and you will always have players around as its the level content that everyone has to go through.
"Endgame" has never been bright or large at WOW, it was always about 1 raid and nothing else.
The problem is there are no VR 14 dungeons lol. your gonna get *** designed closet delves and a new trial . Bravo....... they could have just done what they said they were gonna do months ago and scale all the Vr dungeons to leader lvl . and reitemize the Vr dungeons so they had usefull items.
I have not yet seen the new "zone" for VR 14 so I cant really judge what we get there. In the end I am sure we both agree that such a new level zone should be accessible for everyone with new adventures, stories, dungeons, world bosses and quests or even world pvp.
What I always disliked in the recent WOW years was that "here a new raid, old gear useless get new one and progress three different gear tiers from LFR to HC or in my case from normal to HC". My char however wasn't changed once I reached HC, it was exactly as any other Char that just dinged with the exception of achievements and the gear of course.
While the VR system needs adjustments and the champion system is required to make it fully functionally, I honestly never want to play an MMO again that works like WOW. It takes so much time and you get nothing in return 1 -
Maverick827✭✭✭✭✭
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Having a little "14" in the corner of your screen is just as much "nothing" as getting gear. The problem is with the frequency of forcing players back to the tedious grind of veteran leveling and legendary material farming.Wifeaggro13 wrote: »The trouble with raising the level cap with every content release is that it makes all previous top tier content out of date. If you keep the level cap static for all but major expansions, then when you release new dungeons, trials etc. you broaden the endgame. As it is, the Devs are currently replacing one rather limited range of options with another.
Given, for example, the amount of time it takes for a team of programmers to create a trial, surely it is more sensible and economical NOT to make it obsolete within three months?
What you say is not true.
Have you played WOW in the past 6 years? Every three or four months Blizzard releases a new raid tier. Everything else then automatically turns dead and becomes a ghost town and all items become useless.
I was trying to do a raid at Cata as I wanted the achievement and guess what... nobody was up for it because the new raid tier was already released.
At the VR system this wont happen that fast. You can do the VR1 or 10 or the 12 or the 14 and you will always have players around as its the level content that everyone has to go through.
"Endgame" has never been bright or large at WOW, it was always about 1 raid and nothing else.
The problem is there are no VR 14 dungeons lol. your gonna get *** designed closet delves and a new trial . Bravo....... they could have just done what they said they were gonna do months ago and scale all the Vr dungeons to leader lvl . and reitemize the Vr dungeons so they had usefull items.
I have not yet seen the new "zone" for VR 14 so I cant really judge what we get there. In the end I am sure we both agree that such a new level zone should be accessible for everyone with new adventures, stories, dungeons, world bosses and quests or even world pvp.
What I always disliked in the recent WOW years was that "here a new raid, old gear useless get new one and progress three different gear tiers from LFR to HC or in my case from normal to HC". My char however wasn't changed once I reached HC, it was exactly as any other Char that just dinged with the exception of achievements and the gear of course.
While the VR system needs adjustments and the champion system is required to make it fully functionally, I honestly never want to play an MMO again that works like WOW. It takes so much time and you get nothing in return3 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maverick827 wrote: »
Having a little "14" in the corner of your screen is just as much "nothing" as getting gear. The problem is with the frequency of forcing players back to the tedious grind of veteran leveling and legendary material farming.Wifeaggro13 wrote: »The trouble with raising the level cap with every content release is that it makes all previous top tier content out of date. If you keep the level cap static for all but major expansions, then when you release new dungeons, trials etc. you broaden the endgame. As it is, the Devs are currently replacing one rather limited range of options with another.
Given, for example, the amount of time it takes for a team of programmers to create a trial, surely it is more sensible and economical NOT to make it obsolete within three months?
What you say is not true.
Have you played WOW in the past 6 years? Every three or four months Blizzard releases a new raid tier. Everything else then automatically turns dead and becomes a ghost town and all items become useless.
I was trying to do a raid at Cata as I wanted the achievement and guess what... nobody was up for it because the new raid tier was already released.
At the VR system this wont happen that fast. You can do the VR1 or 10 or the 12 or the 14 and you will always have players around as its the level content that everyone has to go through.
"Endgame" has never been bright or large at WOW, it was always about 1 raid and nothing else.
The problem is there are no VR 14 dungeons lol. your gonna get *** designed closet delves and a new trial . Bravo....... they could have just done what they said they were gonna do months ago and scale all the Vr dungeons to leader lvl . and reitemize the Vr dungeons so they had usefull items.
I have not yet seen the new "zone" for VR 14 so I cant really judge what we get there. In the end I am sure we both agree that such a new level zone should be accessible for everyone with new adventures, stories, dungeons, world bosses and quests or even world pvp.
What I always disliked in the recent WOW years was that "here a new raid, old gear useless get new one and progress three different gear tiers from LFR to HC or in my case from normal to HC". My char however wasn't changed once I reached HC, it was exactly as any other Char that just dinged with the exception of achievements and the gear of course.
While the VR system needs adjustments and the champion system is required to make it fully functionally, I honestly never want to play an MMO again that works like WOW. It takes so much time and you get nothing in return
My biggest problem is VR PVE Group content is already irrelevant. there is no progression but that Vr rank. and its easily attained with mind numbing grind fests. You can farm mats in low lvl zones in density and refine them to get rares to make time sink trait gear with out ever doing any of the content. matter o fact it actually encourages you to do it this way because its much more rewarding then doing the content for some crap purple to break down. And the only way to make your gear gold is this very technique.
It is the worst implementation of an end game i have ever seen, id rather a Welfare gear food stamp system over this. at least it required player skill to accomplish the dailies associated with the food stamps.
There is no real defense for this design to those applauding it. its even worse then a gear grind . way worse , at least aquiring gear required skill and knowledge .Edited by Wifeaggro13 on August 20, 2014 12:06AM2 -
ExiledKhallisi✭✭✭✭✭We do not want more levels ZOS we want more content.>>>>>>>>(DC)Guild Master of Biestas 250+ Active Members<<<<<<<<||||||Vr14 Sorc: Darkened Soul vr14 Templar: Tiffaney||||||“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War2 -
deathmasterl_ESO✭✭✭KhajitFurTrader wrote: »Strange, last thing I heard was that VR will go away completely and be replaced by the Champion system. So, in a sense, they've already decided to stop. Now what? ^_^
They never said Veteran Ranks were going away and being replaced, they said Veteran Points where going away and be changed into normal XP like 1-49 Content.
Veteran Ranks will now be used to judge the amount of Champion Points you get for the Champion System.
Saevus Messor Imperial Dragonknight Vr14 Aldmeri Dominion
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Master Weapon and Armor Crafter1 -
Gillysan✭✭✭✭Champion system? I better do some research. *ugh*
I feel the biggest mistake they made in this game was that L1 - 50 can be done in a few days(weekends if that's what you can get). You can foot note that with the 1-day-to-hit-50-loophole from Early Access.
The move to give PvP people more xp so they don't have to grind quests(in their words, not mine) was a good move. More content for PvP so there are alternate paths to advancement would be great.
VR's are kinda weird, you don't exactly level up, so the OP is wrong. VR's are more like a weird extended gear grind.Crafting Services http://tinyurl.com/GillysansStore Organizational Guide http://tinyurl.com/GillysansEnchanterLeveling
ESO Dwemer Ruins List
Dwemer Forum Thread0 -
TheSojourner✭✭✭Is it just me or does the redundancy of the thread title annoy anyone else as much as the thread itself?5 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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This, however WOW adds new gear tires every 3rd month. gear tires who brings more problems: You can just get them a few ways like raids or buy for reward points.Sorry OP but I disagree with you.
I am tired of raid or die MMOs so everything that actually changes that pattern is more than welcome.
By adding new VR ranks, the Champion levels in future or new zones those of us who don't raid have something to do and this is just as important as your raid content.
WOW offers all you want, sit at the same progress for two years and count the days until 5 more levels are added just to be bored again after a few weeks - no thanks
Veteran rank is nothing more than how good gear you are allowed to wear.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Gillysan✭✭✭✭Heh heh. That did set off my emo-kid radar alert.Crafting Services http://tinyurl.com/GillysansStore Organizational Guide http://tinyurl.com/GillysansEnchanterLeveling
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Dwemer Forum Thread1 -
WebBull✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheSojourner wrote: »Is it just me or does the redundancy of the thread title annoy anyone else as much as the thread itself?
I like it. Really like it. I mean really like it.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭What I always disliked in the recent WOW years was that "here a new raid, old gear useless get new one and progress three different gear tiers from LFR to HC or in my case from normal to HC". My char however wasn't changed once I reached HC, it was exactly as any other Char that just dinged with the exception of achievements and the gear of course.
Well, I haven't been playing WoW in the recent years, but the way it worked back in the vanilla/TBC days, you kind of needed that "old useless gear" to get the new and better gear. I sure didn't see anyone raiding BWL, or even getting far in MC with blue gear.
What ESO has done with the level cap increase, it has really made that gear we've got at the moment old and useless, as it will be replaced by any easily crafted gear at VR14.
Edited by DDuke on August 20, 2014 1:11AM4 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, I guess you haven't spoken to enough players because they don't all feel that way. Most of the regulars in my guild that I've talked to are looking forward to the patch and the new increase and gear. We like improving our characters in various ways when we can and have been sitting at max level for quite a while (and an even longer while before the first craglorn came out). I do not want to play a game that never changes, where I get to max level, get my gear and never need to change again.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC2 -
Pucko82✭✭oh... ZOS... why? I Keep asking this question everytime I Launch ESO, and now THIS!
ESO pretty much feels like waste of time. after I upgraded my gear to legendary (again) you make it worthless.
I think "legendary" stuff should not be something i have to change every 4 weeks!
You have this fatastic world of elder scrolls (which you inherited), you have a playerbase with tons of mmo experience that gives you daily Feedback and what do you do? clothing Colors and VR 14!
my Suggestion: just STOP working on ESO right now (even though ist totally bugged, unbalanced and unfinished), for you only make things worse.1 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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You're deluded, after 50 there IS NO CHARACTER PROGRESSION, stats stay the same, skills stay the same, a naked VR1 is no different naked at VR12 (and now VR14) the only this that this stupid level cap rise does it allow a character's clothes to be more powerful .. for me that's entirely not a fun way to 'progress'.Super_Sonico wrote: »I want this change.
I want experience and level increases as rewards for engaging new content. I like to see my character advance and grow as she faces new challenges.
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fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Same could be said for WOW raid tiers .. you're trying to make out ESO is entirely different from WOW by using skewed and sometimes outright baseless assertions.At the VR system this wont happen that fast. You can do the VR1 or 10 or the 12 or the 14 and you will always have players around as its the level content that everyone has to go through.
If you can find players doing the VR content in ESO you claim, same will be said for WOW raid tiers, especially as you usually need gear from one tier to be able to 'progress' to the next when iLevel gates apply.
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TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Good! Level increase => Me is Stronger! I also have 56 Dreugh Wax reserved for this 8). (Does hurt to know it will have costed me 250k to upgrade the gear to Legendary) though. ZOS does need to add more ways to make money $$ Edited by TehMagnus on August 20, 2014 8:06AM0 -
Kashiwagi✭✭✭Raising the level cap is great. I am VR11 and was seriously thinking about making a break for a few months, but now I won't.
"Great" is a relative term here though, since it means that I'll continue to have no life.1 -
Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Less frequent level updates where the increase are more substantial. I really hate the 2 ranks every 2-3 months... It's too frequent, especially as a PvP player.
I don't know. I mean it seems everyone else does it the way you suggest but there is something to be said for keeping the field competitively close statistically. I know our stats get adjusted in Cyrodiil anyway but still I don't see the big deal. It's not like gear is that much of a grind here and this process keeps things moving rather than having long periods of stagnation.
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shadowz081✭✭✭For those below VR12 and have yet to make a full set of purple/gold quality gear, it is great, as you can save your tempers for when the update hits and you get the best quality gear in the game.
For those who have made legendary gear they will either have to re-farm all the mats or re buy it for lots of gold, which for those who have a life a hard thing to do.
And for those who just got to V12 and made set of gold stuff a week or so before these notes came out, well...You would be pissed to if you realize your stuff will be rendered invalid with a month a most.
The problem with the level cap raise is that basically all the armor set abilities had been revised no more than a couple of weeks ago and everyone had just more or less gotten a new set of armor that is less than a month old and aside from those who constantly grind trials for the V12 blue sets which sells between 3k-10k a piece, a farmer or a gold buyer, a lot of people have not recuperated from the loss yet, especially so if they decided to make gold quality items, as gold itself is relatively hard to come by and the legendary tempers are very rare. So many people here would see this as the proverbial slap in the face. Especially those that have a life outside this game and is not able to play 18 hours a day.Edited by shadowz081 on August 20, 2014 8:47AM1 -
Morduil✭✭✭The trouble with raising the level cap with every content release is that it makes all previous top tier content out of date. If you keep the level cap static for all but major expansions, then when you release new dungeons, trials etc. you broaden the endgame. As it is, the Devs are currently replacing one rather limited range of options with another.
Given, for example, the amount of time it takes for a team of programmers to create a trial, surely it is more sensible and economical NOT to make it obsolete within three months?
What you say is not true.
Have you played WOW in the past 6 years? Every three or four months Blizzard releases a new raid tier. Everything else then automatically turns dead and becomes a ghost town and all items become useless.
I was trying to do a raid at Cata as I wanted the achievement and guess what... nobody was up for it because the new raid tier was already released.
At the VR system this wont happen that fast. You can do the VR1 or 10 or the 12 or the 14 and you will always have players around as its the level content that everyone has to go through.
"Endgame" has never been bright or large at WOW, it was always about 1 raid and nothing else.
I am not entirely sure that we are discussing the same thing. I am not talking about the effect of a raise in VR level on the Cadwell's silver and gold levelling content. I am referring to end game pve content, which is, broadly, atm trials and veteran dungeons.
Within that, the effect will, I believe, be precisely the same as what you experienced with the Cataclysm raid. You seem, in fact, to be agreeing with my point, for whichj I am grateful. The effect in ESO could actually be worse as (even though I am not keen on comparing different games so directly) the introduction of transmogrification in WoW imbued the old raid tiers with something like a half-life of interest.
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Cathrin✭✭✭To be honest, I think leveling is part of the fun.
But only, if there are new quests, that I can solo. At the moment, group questing is such a pain, because it takes ages to find a group. Part of the problem ist the so called "group finder", the other part are the instances, which makes it even harder, finding a matching group.
I think these things should have a higher priority than adding new levels.2
