1.4 Light Armor change: will it actually buff light armor?

david.haypreub18_ESO · August 2014

For those of you who don't know, update 1.4 is introducing one change for light armor:

--•Concentration: This passive will now provide 2%/4% spell penetration instead of 3%/6%.

This is obviously part of the ongoing attempt to fix the imbalance that light armor is clearly preferred over heavy by most players.

I'm wondering what people think the effects of this change might be. Personally, I am very skeptical that this will make much of a difference; in fact, I think it might actually increase the imbalance.

Light Armor gives both Spell Resistance and Spell Penetration. It is one of the reasons that you see more light armor in Cyrodiil than heavy: not only does it make your spells penetrate enemies spell resistance, it gives you better resistance yourself. The way spell penetration works right now seems to be a little buggy, or at least odd: it is basically very easy for a light armor user to penetrate most spell resistance. Some people have argued that spell resistance is therefore all but useless.

So what will reducing that spell penetration do? I think the biggest effect will that it will make light armor MORE protective (relatively speaking) against spells. If it is harder to penetrate resistance, then the resistance becomes more useful. In the end, I worry, this change will actually have the opposite effect, and make light armor still more useful. The change is likely to reduce one positive aspect of light armor but inadvertently to buff another.

Thoughts?

Super_Sonico · August 2014

Possibly.

I think the larger issue is that light armor affects magicka and all class skills are treated as spells and rely on magicka. The physical damage from weapon attacks and protections of armor (from heavy armor) aren't even in the same class as the spells/skills/magicka based side of the game. So an incremental change to light armor in this patch will have practically zero affect on the difference between what light armor is doing in comparison to heavy armor.

Anvos · August 2014

ummm........

I don't quite follow how your saying weakening spell penetration magically buffs light armor compared to other armors, especially if your already somebody who doesn't run around in robes.

david.haypreub18_ESO · August 2014

I worry about that too, Super Sonico. Since beta, I have been asking why all class skills need to use magicka, and suggesting that each class have a mix of magicka and stamina skills. It wouldn't solve the issue created by the fact that you also need to use stamina to run/block/dodge, but it would at least give some options to those that want to make stamina builds. But ZOS seem to be trying a different route... unfortunately, it seems to be taking ages and not achieving much success.

UrQuan · August 2014

Anvos wrote: »

ummm........

I don't quite follow how your saying weakening spell penetration magically buffs light armor compared to other armors, especially if your already somebody who doesn't run around in robes.

It's simple: the high spell penetration you get from light armour currently makes spell resistance fairly useless in PVP, as everyone with light armour is going to be cutting right through your spell resistance anyway. Now with a reduction in spell penetration, spell resistance becomes useful again. So what's the best way to increase your spell resistance? Wear light armour.

jrgray93 · August 2014

Anvos wrote: »

ummm........

I don't quite follow how your saying weakening spell penetration magically buffs light armor compared to other armors, especially if your already somebody who doesn't run around in robes.

It's a bit of a circular issue. It's meaningful for people without light armor, but it also makes a particular light armor passive more effective. So the way I see it, light armor is unchanged in relative balance but medium and heavy get a small boost from this. So basically, no change.

david.haypreub18_ESO · August 2014

Anvos wrote: »

ummm........

I don't quite follow how your saying weakening spell penetration magically buffs light armor compared to other armors, especially if your already somebody who doesn't run around in robes.

If you weaken spell penetration, you increase the value (relatively speaking) of spell resistance. I'm not making a comparison in absolute terms between heavy and light; I am saying that what you take away from light by reducing it's spell penetration might give as much or more back to light, since light still will have the best spell resistance, and now spell resistance will actually do something. If spell resistance is now harder to overcome, it is more valuable... so the type of armor with the best SR gets a relative boost.

DenverRalphy · August 2014

In an attempt to make other armors more appealing, I don't know that this would be the proper route. What would have been better would be to classify more magicka based attacks as physical damage instead of spell damage.

Super_Sonico · August 2014

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

It wouldn't solve the issue created by the fact that you also need to use stamina to run/block/dodge, but it would at least give some options to those that want to make stamina builds.

But within that scheme you could mitigate it. For example, you could have a passive in stamina based class abilities and in weapon abilities that reduced the run/block/dodge cost by a percentage.

I have my stamina currently at around 1900. I am using full medium armor, the ' - of the skirmisher' set. A single roll dodge costs me around 340 stamina. That's 18%. That's ridiculously high. I can understand 50-75 stamina or 4-6%. But 18%? That's just broken. (My FTC stamina drops to 82% on a single roll dodge.)

The effect of the separation between magicka being used for class skills and stamina being used for weapons (except for staffs?) seems logical on a first take, but in practice it's just not done right.

Small changes like this to light armor is going to do zero for fixing that problem.

david.haypreub18_ESO · August 2014

DenverRalphy wrote: »

In an attempt to make other armors more appealing, I don't know that this would be the proper route. What would have been better would be to classify more magicka based attacks as physical damage instead of spell damage.

That would certainly be a much more direct (and I would think better) approach.

Other potential approaches I have seen suggested would be to give Heavy some magicka and stamina cost reduction: not as much magicka as light, and not as much stamina as medium, but a little bit to help close the gap between the three types.

In any case, I think the current change is highly unlikely to do much.

david.haypreub18_ESO · August 2014

Super_Sonico wrote: »

Small changes like this to light armor is going to do zero for fixing that problem.

I agree completely.

loudent · August 2014

Anvos wrote: »

ummm........
I don't quite follow how your saying weakening spell penetration magically buffs light armor compared to other armors, especially if your already somebody who doesn't run around in robes.

He's speaking primarily of PvP. In terms of PVE this is a straight debuff.

andre.roques.3b14_ESO · August 2014

I think I am oversimplifying, but I think if the damage resistance benefit from armor was equalized then it wouldn't be an issue. i.e. If heavy armor was increased to 2% additional armor and spell resistance (up from 1%) that would bring the heavy closer to the less balanced (one sided protection) 4% for cloth.

I have to note that additional spell protection is tied to a damage type that is resource based whereas the pure armor protection mitigates the resource-less swing/shoot heavy and light weapon damage. The reality is that the seemingly higher 4% resistance from light armor isn't actually better protection unless people are specifically not using weapon/physical damage against the light armor target.

I am just not familiar enough with the actual damage output in combat in terms of split between physical and magical damage. That is the deciding factor as to whether physical protection from heavy armor is at all useful. If it is, then the overall goodness of light armor is reduced or better balanced.

kitsinni · August 2014

While Light will still have high spell resists they won't have the penetration. Everyone can get high spell resists though. Most classes if not all have a skill that buffs it, everyone can use impenetrable etc. I think the spell penetration was a lot more valuable than the resistance, spell resists is cheap and easy to find.

c0rp · August 2014

This was a PVE change to bring stam and magicka dps builds closer together. They dont care what affect is has on PVP..will be minimal.

Kewljag_66_ESO · August 2014

Heavy armor still has 3% magic resists and will get you to that magic resist soft cap, you can also use 1 piece of jewelry with magic resists to go way over that soft cap. You dont need light armor for the protection, heavy armor and gear setup do it just fine.

The big thing was the damage out put is being reduced.