There was a comment in another thread (sorry I don't have the link) by @ZOS_BrianWheeler‌ saying they were discussing it internally.

I don't really know what there is to discuss. But hey, at least, they are discussing the hell out of it.

I wish the would do away with mobile aoe together. Any aoes in mmos shouldbe limited, by either standing still to channel, or cone attacks with minimal range.

Aoe kite trains are soo freaking boring. Next to no variation in fights. Always the same boring crap

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Volley flat out needs a buff...So caps are the least of its worries.

A dk posing as a NB told me to use volley against Reflecting and standard spamming dk, still makes me laugh.

briandivisionb16_ESO wrote: »

Noob scrubs I could faceroll in PvP with my eyes closed are no longer killable.

This invalidates everything else you wrote in my opinion. You could have said something like: "Players I used to beat easily are now unkillable." Instead you reveal your nature by using contemptful and insulting terms about players you don't even know.

The kind of ranged AOE battles I have seen in Cyrodiil are boring and make too many classes useless anyway.

briandivisionb16_ESO wrote: »

bump
I don't get how... I mean, look at the threads and the polls.

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW ZOS WANT THEIR PVP TO PLAY THIS WAY. IT IS SICKENING AND THE GUILDS ARE LEAVING!

The threads would be exactly the same if the AOE cap was removed, only the subject would be different. People would be clamoring for an AOE cap. From Zenimax's point of view, players are always going to yell about the way PvP works. PvP players always claim everybody thinks X and everybody is leaving because of X. You can only cry wolf so many times.

briandivisionb16_ESO wrote: »

(edit)

OK. So a small and smart tactical squad can no longer take down larger numbers, under any circumstance.

In fact – in ALL circumstances, you simply need larger numbers of AOE spammers.

In my opinion that is exactly the opposite.
All i see in Cyrodil is those damn bombing groups bombing anything.
Putting an aoe cap into the game will force them to play different and especially with more tactics. Also the small groups i work with arent using any aoe skills except heals.

Maybe u need another groupleader mate.
We are very efficient without any aoe crap. I would be glad if they would screw that aoe noobs**t.
Bombingsquads are ruining my sight.

briandivisionb16_ESO wrote: »

bump
I don't get how... I mean, look at the threads and the polls.

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW ZOS WANT THEIR PVP TO PLAY THIS WAY. IT IS SICKENING AND THE GUILDS ARE LEAVING!

Another argument for immersion: A big ball of fire should burn everyone in its radius, not just 6 rando-magicaly selected targets.

I notice when the PVErs cry about the trails leaderboards need resetting due to an advantage gained at another time by certain grps gets a response from DEVS in 3 days and not just a response a promise of the action with update 4.

I have asked on every single AoE thread for a response about the discussions taking place with the combat team 3 WEEKS ago and still get nothing.
Once again yesterday Rolled back and lost a scroll after a mass lag session with the impulse blobs colliding even worse several of our grp crashing during the evening and because it was en mass crashing when they try to return they are in a queue of 80 -100 because ZoS in their infinite wisdom made 1 30 day campaign . Well lots of us just logged of early again and I expect it will continue until we eventually don't bother logging on at all.

The problem with the AoE Cap is like a sword.

From one side removing the AoE cap, you will have a DK been able to Talon the whole zergball, killing everyone with the Standard in the process. Or Bat Swarm bombs, been more effective.

On the other hand, only "not well informed" players, will form a Zerg ball knowing that they might all die all together.

However what happens when you have people trying to break through a wall? Usually you need three times more attackers than defenders to successfully take a keep. It will always be the attackers going to cramp a small area and attack together, and is already tough to attack when you have eg Oil splashing from everywhere.
Consider having all the other abilities on top of them.

All castles will be impossible to take, while in prime time. Except ZoS redesigns all castles and make them 10 times bigger. Removing the oil in the process and make all AoE radius very small.

Also, since the cap was implemented, also always saw four well organised players on top of a resource tower, holding it and killing 30 people over and over, with oil and batwarsm + standard combo. Consider how bad it will be without the caps.


Any cap removal should be followed by greatly reducing the radius of the 360 degree AoE spells, and remove the oil completely from game. Or limit it to 2-3 oil pots, not 40 that is now.

That will also bring down the AoE casting, not in part with melee users, but at least it will close the gap.

And I strongly believe by removing all AoE abilities all together, is going to improve the game, reduce the powercreep and make battles more entertaining, and bring melee users in line with the magicka ones.

I still don't believe the AoE caps are the problem. I believe the lack of meaningful CC is the problem.

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

@The_Drexill‌ , There are crowd control abilities in the game.
They just are limited to the target cap as well, so they are non existent/irelevant.
(and there is also that issue with immovable, but that's another topic)

Remove the cap, and you'll have crowd control.

@Nox_Aeterna‌ , Except that removing the aoe target cap will make aoes less viable. I know it is counter intuitive at first glance, but hear me out.

If there is the possibility for 40 to get one shotted by 6 people, the 40 will spread out to avoid death.
Now, aoes are always desirable because the stacking tactics pretty much guarantees you 6 targets at each cast.
By spreading out, groups are actually giving less targets per aoes than now.
So aoes become far less reliable or desirable as a main attack tool, and single target fire becomes bread and butter.

Aoes would of course, still be an opportunistic ability when the enemies clump up by mistake or through the flow of the battle.

Here are the calculations if you are interested:

A group may want to stay in a 20m radius to be able to benefit from friendly heals. The range of abilities usually is 28m but let's assume they like to stick together more than necessary for discussion sake.

So that's a formation of 40m wide and an area of 1256.64 m2.
For 40 players, that's a player density of around 0.0318 per square meter.
(of course players will never have perfect repartition, but with constant movement we can assume an average)

A bat swarm has 10m radius, so it impacts 314.16 m2 x player density, so 9.99 targets in average.
Impulse has 8m radius, so around 6.39 targets in average.
Most ranged aoes are between 3 to 6m radius. (volcanic rune 3m, volley 5m, lightning flood 6m)
For 3 to 6m, that would be 0.9 to 3.6 targets hit instead of 40.

Of course, when players are spread out, it is easier to notice enemies crossing the line of skrimmage for bat/impulse and it will be easy to avoid/deal with it.
Right now, when two opposing stacks are on top of eachother, there is very little way to anticipate/avoid pbaoes.
We also have the telegraphs and other red circles on the ground to avoid damage, so those are estimates against the worst groups ever.
Better groups will get hit less.

As you can see, at most, an aoe hits around the target cap, bust will mostly hit less targets than the cap.
Hence, aoes will be weaker when the target cap gets removed.

A side effect also is that oil will be much less powerful.
First, it won't be the only uncapped damage any more, so it won't be op in that regards.
Second, it is slower, more visible, has less mobility and a cooldown.
It's pretty much a death trap on flat ground when you can't stack around it to benefit from the target cap passive dodge chance.

What you dont understand , is that by doing that , you are calling for another issue.

Your move is not at all about balance , your move is totally about trying to diminish the number of zergs.

Most people will agree that , 40 should beat 6 , if there is a chance 6 can one shot 40 , what will happen is the obvious cries for nerfs/rebalance of the game , which makes perfect sense , very few would see logic in 6 crushing 40 with ease.

While you are right that by having less players in your way you can dodge more skills since you can actually see them better. Very few would question 40x40 and people going down left and right , since it makes sense that you took a beating in the middle of that.

The reason people zerg and join together is exactly because to us in general it makes sense that together we are stronger , that is how most wars and so on work , the more soldiers the better , ofc there is other things involved (even in ESO there are , even if the game is much simpler , you can still beat many with few in the right conditions) , but having more soldier in a direct fight usually is a plus.

So in a game where we seek balance (ofc it doesnt happen in a RPG , there is power dif , there is a player skill dif ... , but we seek it) it wont fly that a few should just be able to beat many in a direct fight. I bet with you , they can remove the caps , few will crush many , people will come here and begin to complain that there is a huge issue with balance.

I repeat , what you are doing is not about balance , it is about trying to reduce a certain play style. The huge problem in the room with that is , stop and think , which side you think has more player to complain , the one that wants to beat the zergs OR the zergs?

Obscure wrote: »

@Nox_Aeterna
If the only reason a zerg isn't being shredded by 6 guys is because of an arbitrary target cap to AoE, there are two failures in the game design instead of one.

Can you honestly look at this game right now and say that isnt the case?

The reality is , the AoE caps are a small fix for a huge problem that zen still cant fix after months since launch.

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

The reason people zerg and join together is exactly because to us in general it makes sense that together we are stronger , that is how most wars and so on work ,

Not even close. Wars are won by those that think.

Zerging needs to be punished as any mindless swarm should be. In modern war any zerg is just annihilated. Historically small groups often defeated large armies with useful tactics. Why do you think Rome conquered the world with it's legions. They routinely decimated much larger forces because they had worked how to do it.

I did mention that it can still happen in ESO with said "useful tactics", i beat zergs by using terrain and siege on the right places, which has NOTHING to do with charging head on and killing everyone because your 6 are just plain stronger than 40.

Do please tell me about these OFTEN battles that happened where a general could beat 1x5+ odds against his army by charging head on into the enemy army on a plain fair field of battle.

No terrain edge , no extra support coming from behind , nothing , his army would just go 1x5+ head on. Oh and do keep in mind , ESO is not like the real world , so you cant count on the enemy dying/getting weak from hungry or cold/heat... it must be a direct fair fight.

And both armies should have soldiers of more or less similar strength also btw. (since you know , ESO seeks balance even if we dont have it)

PS: Dont bring modern war into this , if we had the weapons and resouces we have today in ESO , we would not be fighing with swords and riding horses.