2 more slots on action bar needed
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thorntk421✭✭✭I like the 5 and, think it works well. That said, I would like to see 1 more slot for pets and maybe defensive skills only. What I would really like to see though is a 3 slot key bind able quick bar for potions and such.Edited by thorntk421 on August 14, 2014 8:12PM1 -
Rescorla_ESO✭✭✭✭Rescorla_ESO wrote: »Seriously, if the limitation is in fact because of console, PC players should remember that though Morrowind was a good game, Oblivion and Skyrim really got the TES series known thanks to consoles. I don't think there would be an ESO if it wasn't for consoles making TES so popular.
If we're really going to split hairs on every detail that is different, then I'm sure the list will be pretty long, but I personally hardly ever paused the game to swap spells. TES games also had a difficulty slider, and what you're describing sounds like a player who chose to play on easy mode.Rescorla_ESO wrote: »
Not a TES game.1. Darkfall was the exact opposite of ESO. It had a 1-9 hotbar but you could bind 100's of "hotbars" to any key config you wanted. You could have 200 abilities permaslotted if you really wanted to. It was just too much, way too much.
Not TES games.2. Ultima Online, Diablo, and Asheron's Call made a choice to go 1-9 which has worked wonderfully in every game to copy it, including WoW. What a harmonious balance!
Prove it. Until now, TES games required the player to choose between a weapon or a spell in each hand. Consider the 5 spells plus weapons to be an improvement from what was already a great series.3. ESO only has 1-5 which most people agree just isn't enough.
Like said before, this is a deck hand game. You choose your cards and play them. You don't get to have every card in the deck. You can either accept this and L2P, or go play a game which gives you what you want.
If you actually played any of the TES games, you would know that you could pause the game at any time and select whatever ability you possessed. By making TESO a deck build game, ZOS actually violated one of the core design tenets of the TES single player games, which is to give the player the freedom to do pretty much whatever they wanted.
The current restriction on the number of skill slots is probably 100% attributable to console UI limitations. It sucks that PC players are forced to also suffer from those same limitations.
Just because you failed to take advantage of how the TES games were designed does not invalidate the known fact that you could cast any spell or shout anytime you wanted by pausing the game.
I used the quick menu. You could also save your progress and repeat quest objectives multiple times by reloading, thus getting the exact outcome you desired, and never dying, but that was a single player game.
And TES didn't have a huge number of buttons and UI junk. Both Oblivion and Skyrim had controls set up for consoles.
Just so you know, you just confirmed the point I was making. When you used the Quick Menu in Skyrim, you paused the game to choose which spell was tactically the smartest choice to use for the mob you were attacking. All of the TES single player games gave players the full freedom of choice to do that. ZOS decision to make this a deck building game and severely limiting the choices available to the player is completely opposite of how all the previous TES games were designed.1 -
Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »Not sure about that. I mean, I could totally use the extra real estate on my action bar but... It's a challenge to pick the right skills and in some way it sets ESO apart from other MMO I've played.
I really don't think this is a positive enough of a feature to limit us to only 5 skills at a time. One of the things I hate most about this game actually.
I get the frustration and if there were more slots I don't think I'd complain. That said, limiting the slots encourages experimentation and variety. The more slots on an action bar the more cookie cutter the four classes will be. That may sound odd considering there are more slots and therefor more variables. It seems to me, however, we would basically see a couple of the most powerful rotations per class. At least this way almost any choice you go leaves out something else extremely useful. We as players have to make a hard choice and for me as a player it makes me stretch and strive to be better with what I have.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. heh. I just see a benefit as is too.0 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Not a TES game.1. Darkfall was the exact opposite of ESO. It had a 1-9 hotbar but you could bind 100's of "hotbars" to any key config you wanted. You could have 200 abilities permaslotted if you really wanted to. It was just too much, way too much.
Not TES games.2. Ultima Online, Diablo, and Asheron's Call made a choice to go 1-9 which has worked wonderfully in every game to copy it, including WoW. What a harmonious balance!
Prove it. Until now, TES games required the player to choose between a weapon or a spell in each hand. Consider the 5 spells plus weapons to be an improvement from what was already a great series.3. ESO only has 1-5 which most people agree just isn't enough.
Like said before, this is a deck hand game. You choose your cards and play them. You don't get to have every card in the deck. You can either accept this and L2P, or go play a game which gives you what you want.
Your "Not a TES game" argument fails when all of the previous TES games have allowed you to use any of your skills, weapons, or abilities at any time. Even when having to have a weapon or spell equipped in your hands, it was never an issue to swap to something else mid combat, and be able to have access to anything in your arsenal at any time.0 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rescorla_ESO wrote: »Seriously, if the limitation is in fact because of console, PC players should remember that though Morrowind was a good game, Oblivion and Skyrim really got the TES series known thanks to consoles. I don't think there would be an ESO if it wasn't for consoles making TES so popular.
If we're really going to split hairs on every detail that is different, then I'm sure the list will be pretty long, but I personally hardly ever paused the game to swap spells. TES games also had a difficulty slider, and what you're describing sounds like a player who chose to play on easy mode.Rescorla_ESO wrote: »
Not a TES game.1. Darkfall was the exact opposite of ESO. It had a 1-9 hotbar but you could bind 100's of "hotbars" to any key config you wanted. You could have 200 abilities permaslotted if you really wanted to. It was just too much, way too much.
Not TES games.2. Ultima Online, Diablo, and Asheron's Call made a choice to go 1-9 which has worked wonderfully in every game to copy it, including WoW. What a harmonious balance!
Prove it. Until now, TES games required the player to choose between a weapon or a spell in each hand. Consider the 5 spells plus weapons to be an improvement from what was already a great series.3. ESO only has 1-5 which most people agree just isn't enough.
Like said before, this is a deck hand game. You choose your cards and play them. You don't get to have every card in the deck. You can either accept this and L2P, or go play a game which gives you what you want.
If you actually played any of the TES games, you would know that you could pause the game at any time and select whatever ability you possessed. By making TESO a deck build game, ZOS actually violated one of the core design tenets of the TES single player games, which is to give the player the freedom to do pretty much whatever they wanted.
The current restriction on the number of skill slots is probably 100% attributable to console UI limitations. It sucks that PC players are forced to also suffer from those same limitations.
Just because you failed to take advantage of how the TES games were designed does not invalidate the known fact that you could cast any spell or shout anytime you wanted by pausing the game.
Didn't even have to pause the game. Morrowind and Oblivion had more hotkeys than ESO, and Skyrim had a Favorites list that allowed you to put as many skills, weapons, or abilities on it as you wanted.
And then yes, you could pause beyond that.0 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭No.
Not now, not ever. No.
The addition of spellcrafting is there add depth to the skill, not breadth. You'll have a wider selection of spells, pets, skills, etc, to chose from to populate your limited hotbar.
Guess what that mean. It means each spell you create had better be meaningful to you or it's a waste of time and effort. It means you'll have to fret over each and every slot.
What makes you imagine that, with such a minimalist UI and a 5-slot hotbar, that ZOS would break their design and add a wall o' buttons?
^ And quite frankly, design decisions like this are what keep ESO from being one of the better MMO's I've played. Defend it all you want, the design decision to limit skill usage to such an extreme degree is quite frankly a poor one.
It doesn't make me feel like I have to plan strategically. It just limits actually investing in building my character with new skills and abilities knowing I can't use them anyways.2 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Prove it. Until now, TES games required the player to choose between a weapon or a spell in each hand. Consider the 5 spells plus weapons to be an improvement from what was already a great series.
But in TES games the results of my previous spells didn't go away just because I swapped to a different spell.
I'm perfectly fine with 5+U x2. But I'd argue pure toggles shouldn't *need* to be on the bar at all, and summons should remain summoned even when you swap to a bar that they aren't on. I don't see other cc/damage/healing get undone when you swap bars, why should summons?
(Note: I have characters roughly the same level in each class, as well as at least one character specializing in each weapon type.)Seriously, if the limitation is in fact because of console, PC players should remember that though Morrowind was a good game, Oblivion and Skyrim really got the TES series known thanks to consoles. I don't think there would be an ESO if it wasn't for consoles making TES so popular.
TES was a good game before there ever was console versions, IMO the peak was Morrowind. Pandering to the console crowd has only led it downhill.
Since you brought it up - I don't think the TES series is going downhill at all. Skyrim is might favorite yet, and Oblivion is only a minor drop at worst from Morrowind. Love all 3 games - they are my top 3 all time favorite games.0 -
Garetth✭✭✭✭When the spellcrafting hits, there will be a bunch of pets and buffs, can we get 2 more slots, one for toggle buff and one for pet. I do not want a pet and taking up 2 slots unless you allow us to use them when switching action bar, meaning action bar 2 has my pet and buff, and is still there when in switch to my other action bar.
L2P2 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »Not sure about that. I mean, I could totally use the extra real estate on my action bar but... It's a challenge to pick the right skills and in some way it sets ESO apart from other MMO I've played.
I really don't think this is a positive enough of a feature to limit us to only 5 skills at a time. One of the things I hate most about this game actually.
I get the frustration and if there were more slots I don't think I'd complain. That said, limiting the slots encourages experimentation and variety. The more slots on an action bar the more cookie cutter the four classes will be. That may sound odd considering there are more slots and therefor more variables. It seems to me, however, we would basically see a couple of the most powerful rotations per class. At least this way almost any choice you go leaves out something else extremely useful. We as players have to make a hard choice and for me as a player it makes me stretch and strive to be better with what I have.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. heh. I just see a benefit as is too.
I don't see the benefit. I don't feel like I am "experimenting", I feel like I am limiting myself and my build. I just stop spending my skill points on new abilities because I have no place to use them anyway. I don't feel like I have variety. I feel like a one trick pony, spamming the same one or 2 abilities over and over and over again.3 -
Garetth✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »Not sure about that. I mean, I could totally use the extra real estate on my action bar but... It's a challenge to pick the right skills and in some way it sets ESO apart from other MMO I've played.
I really don't think this is a positive enough of a feature to limit us to only 5 skills at a time. One of the things I hate most about this game actually.
I get the frustration and if there were more slots I don't think I'd complain. That said, limiting the slots encourages experimentation and variety. The more slots on an action bar the more cookie cutter the four classes will be. That may sound odd considering there are more slots and therefor more variables. It seems to me, however, we would basically see a couple of the most powerful rotations per class. At least this way almost any choice you go leaves out something else extremely useful. We as players have to make a hard choice and for me as a player it makes me stretch and strive to be better with what I have.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. heh. I just see a benefit as is too.
I don't see the benefit. I don't feel like I am "experimenting", I feel like I am limiting myself and my build. I just stop spending my skill points on new abilities because I have no place to use them anyway. I don't feel like I have variety. I feel like a one trick pony, spamming the same one or 2 abilities over and over and over again.
I hear RIFT calling your name...unlimited slots. You could be King.0 -
KariTR✭✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »Not sure about that. I mean, I could totally use the extra real estate on my action bar but... It's a challenge to pick the right skills and in some way it sets ESO apart from other MMO I've played.
I really don't think this is a positive enough of a feature to limit us to only 5 skills at a time. One of the things I hate most about this game actually.
I get the frustration and if there were more slots I don't think I'd complain. That said, limiting the slots encourages experimentation and variety. The more slots on an action bar the more cookie cutter the four classes will be. That may sound odd considering there are more slots and therefor more variables. It seems to me, however, we would basically see a couple of the most powerful rotations per class. At least this way almost any choice you go leaves out something else extremely useful. We as players have to make a hard choice and for me as a player it makes me stretch and strive to be better with what I have.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. heh. I just see a benefit as is too.
I don't see the benefit. I don't feel like I am "experimenting", I feel like I am limiting myself and my build. I just stop spending my skill points on new abilities because I have no place to use them anyway. I don't feel like I have variety. I feel like a one trick pony, spamming the same one or 2 abilities over and over and over again.
Not sure whether to laugh or cry.0 -
MorHawk✭✭✭✭✭People, can we drop the "is it TES" argument already? Skyrim changed more traditional TES elements, most notably the stats, than any other TES game. Let's face it, there is very little gameplay consistency in the series. The lore is what makes it TES.I can count to potato.
WWJLHD?Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »another topic that cant see past its own farts.1 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nope, not needed.Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"1 -
SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »Rescorla_ESO wrote: »Seriously, if the limitation is in fact because of console, PC players should remember that though Morrowind was a good game, Oblivion and Skyrim really got the TES series known thanks to consoles. I don't think there would be an ESO if it wasn't for consoles making TES so popular.
If we're really going to split hairs on every detail that is different, then I'm sure the list will be pretty long, but I personally hardly ever paused the game to swap spells. TES games also had a difficulty slider, and what you're describing sounds like a player who chose to play on easy mode.Rescorla_ESO wrote: »
Not a TES game.1. Darkfall was the exact opposite of ESO. It had a 1-9 hotbar but you could bind 100's of "hotbars" to any key config you wanted. You could have 200 abilities permaslotted if you really wanted to. It was just too much, way too much.
Not TES games.2. Ultima Online, Diablo, and Asheron's Call made a choice to go 1-9 which has worked wonderfully in every game to copy it, including WoW. What a harmonious balance!
Prove it. Until now, TES games required the player to choose between a weapon or a spell in each hand. Consider the 5 spells plus weapons to be an improvement from what was already a great series.3. ESO only has 1-5 which most people agree just isn't enough.
Like said before, this is a deck hand game. You choose your cards and play them. You don't get to have every card in the deck. You can either accept this and L2P, or go play a game which gives you what you want.
If you actually played any of the TES games, you would know that you could pause the game at any time and select whatever ability you possessed. By making TESO a deck build game, ZOS actually violated one of the core design tenets of the TES single player games, which is to give the player the freedom to do pretty much whatever they wanted.
The current restriction on the number of skill slots is probably 100% attributable to console UI limitations. It sucks that PC players are forced to also suffer from those same limitations.
Just because you failed to take advantage of how the TES games were designed does not invalidate the known fact that you could cast any spell or shout anytime you wanted by pausing the game.
Didn't even have to pause the game. Morrowind and Oblivion had more hotkeys than ESO, and Skyrim had a Favorites list that allowed you to put as many skills, weapons, or abilities on it as you wanted.
And then yes, you could pause beyond that.
Actually, the favorites menu in Skyrim only had 8 slots. This game has 5 + 1 ultimate on two different weapons, so that's 12 + 2 weapons, + 8 potions/food = 22 slots in ESO.Edited by SFBryan18 on August 15, 2014 11:44AM1 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't think we can say that the action bar design can be totally be because of the console port. After all the console port will be for the new generation of consoles like my PS4. The PS4 has a touch pad with clickable areas on it just like our laptops which they could utilize for a more sophisticated action bar.0 -
Tatuaje✭✭Rescorla_ESO wrote: »
Not a TES game.1. Darkfall was the exact opposite of ESO. It had a 1-9 hotbar but you could bind 100's of "hotbars" to any key config you wanted. You could have 200 abilities permaslotted if you really wanted to. It was just too much, way too much.
Not TES games.2. Ultima Online, Diablo, and Asheron's Call made a choice to go 1-9 which has worked wonderfully in every game to copy it, including WoW. What a harmonious balance!
Prove it. Until now, TES games required the player to choose between a weapon or a spell in each hand. Consider the 5 spells plus weapons to be an improvement from what was already a great series.3. ESO only has 1-5 which most people agree just isn't enough.
Like said before, this is a deck hand game. You choose your cards and play them. You don't get to have every card in the deck. You can either accept this and L2P, or go play a game which gives you what you want.
If you actually played any of the TES games, you would know that you could pause the game at any time and select whatever ability you possessed. By making TESO a deck build game, ZOS actually violated one of the core design tenets of the TES single player games, which is to give the player the freedom to do pretty much whatever they wanted.
The current restriction on the number of skill slots is probably 100% attributable to console UI limitations. It sucks that PC players are forced to also suffer from those same limitations.
And the truth is told.
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MorHawk✭✭✭✭✭And the truth is told.
Lol. "truth". The arrogance on these forums astounds me sometimes. People are so determined to push the 'consoles are ruining PC master race" agenda that they're actually stating their opinions as fact.
http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/09/07/sony-pushed-for-the-elder-scrolls-online-to-come-to-consoles
This only came to light once the beta had already started. It was previously in development for about six years. But yeah, the engine was totally redesigned just for consoles. Right.I can count to potato.
WWJLHD?Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »another topic that cant see past its own farts.1 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think limiting the slots to 5+1 x2 makes it easier to balance given the abundance of skill points they give us. The more abilities given, the more people can get creative to make things work in ways never anticipated. Which you are probably saying "Well gee, let us be more creative, then." Well the problem there is, eventually you will have builds with simply best in slots with rotations. You have that a little now, but there is enough good skills that someone might choose something a bit different cause they can't get them all on that bar.http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/126706/2-more-slots-on-action-bar-needed?#
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Chuggernaut✭✭✭What would be nice is if you could setup variations of a bars 1 & 2 in advance. That way I could pick for this mission I'll use variation 2 for bar 1 because it will help against x. I think that someone may have wrote an addon for that, but I hate updating the 6 I use now each patch.My comrades have returned. I erect the spine of gratitude. You are a hero today. - Bura-Natoo0 -
MorHawk✭✭✭✭✭Chuggernaut wrote: »What would be nice is if you could setup variations of a bars 1 & 2 in advance. That way I could pick for this mission I'll use variation 2 for bar 1 because it will help against x. I think that someone may have wrote an addon for that, but I hate updating the 6 I use now each patch.
Yep. Wykkyd's Outfitter. If you have a client for updating addons, it'll just take one click, however many you have. Minion, for example, works great for me.I can count to potato.
WWJLHD?Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »another topic that cant see past its own farts.2 -
nope, no more skills slots.
I've played plenty of games and mmos and since we have a sort of targeting system, having more skills slots makes you use more keys, 1to5 plus R is fine.
Since all your other keys are probably guided to actions like E and Q it would make people use combinations of keys like shift + 1 which is doable but hard for people who do not have that experience, and this game is guided for a simple game style.That perfection is unattainable it is no excuse not to strive for itSorcerer VR12 - Ebonheart Pact1 -
Chuggernaut✭✭✭Thanks MorHawk, I'll check that out!My comrades have returned. I erect the spine of gratitude. You are a hero today. - Bura-Natoo0
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Ad.Absurdum✭✭the ui in teso is almost as crapy as skyrim's and for skyrim they admitted to have it designed for console. two more action slots would be great, not only for sorcerer builds. sadly i expected exactly that kind of ui after they announced that the game will be released on console - no surprise then.1
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istateres✭✭✭✭No more slots per bar, 5 is fine. We need more BARS.
No seriously, the reward for VR1 should be a third bar to swap between. Allowing advanced players to be more flexible.
Gimmie that!
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amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭People, can we drop the "is it TES" argument already? Skyrim changed more traditional TES elements, most notably the stats, than any other TES game. Let's face it, there is very little gameplay consistency in the series. The lore is what makes it TES.
Actually, there is plenty of gameplay consistency in the series. None of which ESO maintains.
Lore is very low on the list of things I love about TES.amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »Rescorla_ESO wrote: »Seriously, if the limitation is in fact because of console, PC players should remember that though Morrowind was a good game, Oblivion and Skyrim really got the TES series known thanks to consoles. I don't think there would be an ESO if it wasn't for consoles making TES so popular.
If we're really going to split hairs on every detail that is different, then I'm sure the list will be pretty long, but I personally hardly ever paused the game to swap spells. TES games also had a difficulty slider, and what you're describing sounds like a player who chose to play on easy mode.Rescorla_ESO wrote: »
Not a TES game.1. Darkfall was the exact opposite of ESO. It had a 1-9 hotbar but you could bind 100's of "hotbars" to any key config you wanted. You could have 200 abilities permaslotted if you really wanted to. It was just too much, way too much.
Not TES games.2. Ultima Online, Diablo, and Asheron's Call made a choice to go 1-9 which has worked wonderfully in every game to copy it, including WoW. What a harmonious balance!
Prove it. Until now, TES games required the player to choose between a weapon or a spell in each hand. Consider the 5 spells plus weapons to be an improvement from what was already a great series.3. ESO only has 1-5 which most people agree just isn't enough.
Like said before, this is a deck hand game. You choose your cards and play them. You don't get to have every card in the deck. You can either accept this and L2P, or go play a game which gives you what you want.
If you actually played any of the TES games, you would know that you could pause the game at any time and select whatever ability you possessed. By making TESO a deck build game, ZOS actually violated one of the core design tenets of the TES single player games, which is to give the player the freedom to do pretty much whatever they wanted.
The current restriction on the number of skill slots is probably 100% attributable to console UI limitations. It sucks that PC players are forced to also suffer from those same limitations.
Just because you failed to take advantage of how the TES games were designed does not invalidate the known fact that you could cast any spell or shout anytime you wanted by pausing the game.
Didn't even have to pause the game. Morrowind and Oblivion had more hotkeys than ESO, and Skyrim had a Favorites list that allowed you to put as many skills, weapons, or abilities on it as you wanted.
And then yes, you could pause beyond that.
Actually, the favorites menu in Skyrim only had 8 slots. This game has 5 + 1 ultimate on two different weapons, so that's 12 + 2 weapons, + 8 potions/food = 22 slots in ESO.
Um... what? There is far more than 8 slots in the Skyrim favorites menu.1
This discussion has been closed.