Yea, I saw all that. Those things buff both. Buffing both means Magicka will stay ahead.

Spell crafting creating abilities that cost magicka means light armor will make better use of them. That moves medium and heavy nowhere. Ultimates made with it are both way things too, doesn't move the stamina build forward any more than it does the magicka build.

Champion system will have passives for both magicka and stamina, buffing both. That doesn't put stamina closer to magicka.

No concrete info given about what thieves guild and dark brotherhood will do for anyone beyond what we can imagine, and i'm not going to blindly hope they 'fix' the balance issue.

I have more hope that they will create a new resource pool for standard survival abilities than any of that other stuff.

Most people are not complaining about burst DMG, what you are reffering to. We talk about Stamina not being competitive in long duration combats, like fighting a Raid Boss about 2-4 Minutes, where your Stamina runs dry after 60 seconds and Mages can nuke the complete time.

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Draxuul wrote: »

I see no reason to buff stamina builds . Yeah people complain , people will always complain , you give them a cookie and they start asking for a whole cake .

My highest lvl character is a v2 templar fully dressed in heavy armor and uses only stamina for dealing damage and only magicka for heals so i can stay in the fight longer and i love him a lot . He's awesome as he is . I do not see a reason to buff him or boost him . IF he does get boosted , i can only see the challenge being reduced and the fun being reduced at the same time.

I can already take on groups of 6-7 mobs of my own lvl . How many more mobs will i have to pull at once to get a challenge if Stamina builds do get buffed up.

The same amount someone running in, holding block, and spamming impulse can.

Spamming impulse ? I don`t even know what that skill is . I use a greatsword . I have to admit, maybe the 1h and shield builds and not as good or maybe the dual wield builds are not as good , i wouldn`t know about those because i`ve never used them. All i know is that i love my character the way he is .

Plus i know from experience that trying to ballance classes will fail everytime . Blizzard has been trying to ballance classes ever since they launched the game back in 2001 and they`re still at it .

All they`re doing is making a class more powerful than all of the others and then they end up nurfing it while boosting all other classes in the next patch and so on and so forth and it just never ends . I played WoW from launch and for 4 years and i remember how frustrated i was everytime time they released a new patch .

In a game like this where every players are different and the amount of different possible builds is almost endless, ballance is impossible.

Take my own character for example. Some people might take him and be better than i am with him while others might take him and suck with him so badly that they will rant and complain and say that the build sucks .

You start messing around with stats to try and improve certain builds so that the players who are not as good in combat can have a better experience and you end up turning the better players into gods.

Same goes the other way around . You try nurfing certain builds to try and turn godlike characters back down to mere mortals , and all of the other players who were struggling with that same build are no longer able to solo anything .

And all those attempts at trying to ballance things become a real pain in the butt for absolutly everyone involved , both the developpers and the players.

Some people will always be able to adjust to any changes that are made and will always be good , no matter what you throw at them but a lot of people have a harder time adjusting to those changes and trying to make those people happy is a lost cause .

Hopefully i`m not the only person to think this way and hopefully Zenimax will not repeat the exact same mistakes that so many other developpers have made in the past .

Draxuul

The problem, at its heart, is running, breaking CC, sneaking, and your skills (for stam based skills) all coming from the same pool of resources.

Its quite easy to tap out of stamina not doing combat...where as a sorc, im free to break CC and run about never putting in jeopardy my ability to fight.

Perhaps something simple like having ALL skills use mana but weapon and stamina based skills to gain some strength from the stamina rather than mana.

Imagine what a healer or sorc would do when they had to sneak across a field and around a keep and it used their mana, then pvp happens and they cant do anything...its sort of like that with both pve and pvp with a stamina build.

Its just too easy to drain stamina not fighting for fighting skills to use the same pool...

Also people are right that in large scale pvp, which is the most common form...you simply need to have longer range and aoe skills to be anything more than a clean up crew to take care of derps that charge into you Rambo style.

I wouldn't mind a jump attack then jump back to original position type weapon skill (must be CC immune) that could allow you to at least leap into someone take a swing, then jump back (teleport?) At least this way a melee character can get in on the action without having to tank 50 people.

We need to find a way to make all or certain class skills to scale off stamina.

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Draxuul wrote: »

I see no reason to buff stamina builds . Yeah people complain , people will always complain , you give them a cookie and they start asking for a whole cake .

My highest lvl character is a v2 templar fully dressed in heavy armor and uses only stamina for dealing damage and only magicka for heals so i can stay in the fight longer and i love him a lot . He's awesome as he is . I do not see a reason to buff him or boost him . IF he does get boosted , i can only see the challenge being reduced and the fun being reduced at the same time.

I can already take on groups of 6-7 mobs of my own lvl . How many more mobs will i have to pull at once to get a challenge if Stamina builds do get buffed up.

The same amount someone running in, holding block, and spamming impulse can.

EDIT = Wrong quote

Virtually all ultimates are still based on magicka. This interesting post by AlienDiplomat shows that the change to ultimates was never meant to make any of them based on stamina:

"I decided to contact ZOS, to get it directly from them what exactly this recent change to ultimates was intended to do. Here is the response:

Greetings,

Thank you for all your inquiries into the recent changes to certain in-game ultimate's. To clarify, all ultimate's will have the same base multiplier as they did originally ( I.E. Soul Harvest will still be Magicka based). However in addition to the magicka or stamina base, weapon and spell damage will be factored in. Going with Soul Harvest as an example, its based damage will be determined by your magicka and your weapon damage. Regardless of what your highest stat is every ability still has a determined set of multipliers.

The changes to Ultimate simply fixed the actual damage output as certain abilities were doing insanely higher amounts of damage then actually intended when we changed ultimate's. For example some players were able to do 8k damage in PVP

I hope that this clarifies the changes to ultimate's some, and if you have any other questions,comments or concerns please let me know!

So, it sounds to me like this was NOT intended to be a buff to Stamina builds as it was allowed to sound in the sparse references here, probably to allay the concerns of the community as Stamina continues to languish in imbalance and neglect, barred from trials and limiting the entire range of options for serious end-game content to essentially Staff and Light Armor.

Personally, I have given up on balance as well. In my mind, Stamina is intended to be viable and entertaining for solo play and PVP, and I accept that.

I am now working on a magic build for my Nightblade, and have been able to make the most of it and even have fun in the process.
Post edited by AlienDiplomat at 11:37AM

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Virtually all ultimates are still based on magicka. This interesting post by AlienDiplomat shows that the change to ultimates was never meant to make any of them based on stamina:

"I decided to contact ZOS, to get it directly from them what exactly this recent change to ultimates was intended to do. Here is the response:

Greetings,

Thank you for all your inquiries into the recent changes to certain in-game ultimate's. To clarify, all ultimate's will have the same base multiplier as they did originally ( I.E. Soul Harvest will still be Magicka based). However in addition to the magicka or stamina base, weapon and spell damage will be factored in. Going with Soul Harvest as an example, its based damage will be determined by your magicka and your weapon damage. Regardless of what your highest stat is every ability still has a determined set of multipliers.

The changes to Ultimate simply fixed the actual damage output as certain abilities were doing insanely higher amounts of damage then actually intended when we changed ultimate's. For example some players were able to do 8k damage in PVP

I hope that this clarifies the changes to ultimate's some, and if you have any other questions,comments or concerns please let me know!

So, it sounds to me like this was NOT intended to be a buff to Stamina builds as it was allowed to sound in the sparse references here, probably to allay the concerns of the community as Stamina continues to languish in imbalance and neglect, barred from trials and limiting the entire range of options for serious end-game content to essentially Staff and Light Armor.

Personally, I have given up on balance as well. In my mind, Stamina is intended to be viable and entertaining for solo play and PVP, and I accept that.

I am now working on a magic build for my Nightblade, and have been able to make the most of it and even have fun in the process.
Post edited by AlienDiplomat at 11:37AM

So they did jack squat?

Varicite wrote: »

No, they are based off of weapon damage now if that is higher than your spell power.

That's not the way I read it. The way I read it is, all Ultimates are still based on Magicka.

It is just that they now ALSO take into account spell damage or weapon damage, whichever is higher, as an additive.

Higher magicka will mean more damaging ultimates, but stamina does nothing for ultimates. Only magicka, and then after that spell damage or weapon damage, whichever is higher. Since stamina does affect weapon damage, it will have some affect if your weapon damage is higher than your spell damage. But only magicka will affect the 'base multiplier' for most ultimates (aside from the ultimates that are based on stamina, of which I am only aware of two: the fighter's guild one and maybe the werewolf one).

So yes, they did jack squat.

Dear Jessica Folsom,

being a DK tank in heavy armour 1h+s and a pure stamina build, I keep coming to this thread almost on a daily basis to check out if there is indeed any progress on buffing the stamina builds, which does not affect just NBs or people in medium armour, but also tanks as they are forced to have a considerable amount of stamina.

What I keeping looking at is small changes to one skill of one skill line. And ALL of the changes are aimed at medium armour dps players, either by marginaly increasing dps or reducing some cost. Tanks also use stamina and stamina based tanks are currently (almost) at the state of werewolves, which is under everyone. The recent heavy armour passive change helped to bring the heavy armour back into the game, but there is still a long way to go in terms of skill use. As a stamina based tank in heavy armour, all you class skills underperform as they are based on magicka, but also still cost alot since you are getting no reduction from armour. One handed and shield skill line, offers ZERO enhancing/dps skills, shield charge and power bash do less damage than our taunt...

My question to you is very simple, do you have any specific plans or fixing/amending/improving the current situation? The list you provided does nothing to improve the current situation as the fixes proposed are too insignificant compaired to the whole picture and they also slightly affect only some of the stamina builds. I have kept track of announcements in QuakeCon, or the Road Ahead and generaly anywhere I can get information about what is coming up next. In all those, there are only generalities about how to address the situation, nothing concrete. So is what you write in the first page all we can hope for in the future? Or are there other changes planned?

Thank you in advance,

Imp

Them stamina build aoes need to match the caster types because atm that is what pvp in this game is all about impulse bat swarm.Five stamina build char run up against 5 magika builds they hit immovable and aoe them to the ground. Now I realize that there are some things u can do to counter this but on norm the magika builds will win one because its the easiest way to kill in the game so a lil lag dosent effect them two because there damage out put is higher three there light armour is just as tough if not tougher than the heavy and medium. The stam team will have to pick out a target to kill but because the magika team only needs to resto up and spam they will heal I can go on but its pointless its a aoe game and stam builds need aoe to able to compete with the impulse bat swarming hordes.

Grim13 wrote: »

Soulcollectas wrote: »

Them stamina build aoes need to match the caster types because atm that is what pvp in this game is all about impulse bat swarm.Five stamina build char run up against 5 magika builds they hit immovable and aoe them to the ground. Now I realize that there are some things u can do to counter this but on norm the magika builds will win one because its the easiest way to kill in the game so a lil lag dosent effect them two because there damage out put is higher three there light armour is just as tough if not tougher than the heavy and medium. The stam team will have to pick out a target to kill but because the magika team only needs to resto up and spam they will heal I can go on but its pointless its a aoe game and stam builds need aoe to able to compete with the impulse bat swarming hordes.

Right.

Sadly, I've lost all faith in ZOS' ability to balance this game in any meaningful way.

So the bow (ranged physical aoe) need similar power/scope to magical aoe.
Perhaps prayers to the divines to counter spells ?
ie. stamina players use indirect god magic as opposed to direct user magic ?

SirJesto wrote: »

Draxuul wrote: »

I see no reason to buff stamina builds . Yeah people complain , people will always complain , you give them a cookie and they start asking for a whole cake .

My highest lvl character is a v2 templar fully dressed in heavy armor and uses only stamina for dealing damage and only magicka for heals so i can stay in the fight longer and i love him a lot . He's awesome as he is . I do not see a reason to buff him or boost him . IF he does get boosted , i can only see the challenge being reduced and the fun being reduced at the same time.

I can already take on groups of 6-7 mobs of my own lvl . How many more mobs will i have to pull at once to get a challenge if Stamina builds do get buffed up.

When you say you are only using stamina for damage, what weapon skills are you using to take on 6-7 vet mobs at once?

LvL 1 mobs with 1 health

AshySamurai wrote: »

TL;DR. 21 pages, wow! But last OP update was June 21 and I would like to know, is there any upcoming changes? Or ZOS thinks that all is right and system works as it should work? It would be very nice to see what next you're going to do. Thanks.

This gives you an idea about the level of communication between ZoS and the playerbase...