It is confusing.

I'm optimistically assuming they won't leave people in various states of completion of the current VR system high and dry.

But I'm really wondering what impact this will have on crafting. With inventory space as limited as it is it would be nice to know what mats to keep around etc. I craft for main, alts, as well as for a friend, all at different levels, and every added element makes prioritizing more of a headache.

Omfg the bar will change colors!!!! All the problems are fix!!!!

After listening to the video, interviews and reading the community manager quotes, I don't see any contractions besides Gina using the wrong wording.
- Veteran Ranks (i.e, the 12 levels past 49) are staying. These will simply be regular levels earned with regular experience, albeit slower than normal 1-50 leveling.
- Veteran Points (what I feel Gina meant to say, and the current separate experience we earn past VR1) will be removed entirely. Your VP will be converted to experience points.
- Veteran Rank gear, or gear requiring VR1-12 to wear, will still be present and available, and players will still have to be that rank to use it.


Hopefully, that part is clear. Now we get into the *limited* information we know of the Champion system.
- Champion points will be earned separate from experience points.
- Champion points will can only be earned for content from VR1 and up (or rank 50 and up, to say it another way, as 50=VR1).
- Champion points can be earned by any character on your account.
- Once earned, champion points can be spent by any character on your account.
- Each character has access to the entire champion point pool, not to only what hasn't be spent by other characters. Meaning if all five of your characters earned 25 points together, 5 points each, then each of those five characters get to spend the total of 25 points.
- Champion points don't give you levels or experience, but can be spent to unlock passives which increase your characters capabilities in small amounts.


On the Champion gear, as diagrammed loosely by Paul Sage.
- Champion gear will be available to all levels, and is not leveled like current non-vet and vet gear is.
- Champion gear will be seasonal, with each season more powerful and unique from the season before it.
- Prior seasons gear will be less powerful, but easier to obtain than the current season, to reflect the progression of content.


Finally, the very limited info we have on 'Champion Rating'.
- Champion Rating will take into account your gear level, or what season of champion gear you have, plus your VR level, plus your total Champion Points, to give an approximate assessment of what content you are ready for.



Obviously confusions listed:
- People say 'Veteran Ranks' instead of 'Veteran Points', not knowing there's a difference between removing the 11 levels past 50, and removing the secondary experience point system.
- People say gear will no longer require a level, when Paul Sage specifically addressed Champion Gear, the seasonal addition, that will be level independent.
- People say that champion points will be split amongst your character, when instead they will combine to *confusing* independent pools for each character (kinda hard to grasp, that logic).

Alphashado wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Veteran Ranks are going away completely once the final version of the Champion System is out. First they are replacing VP with XP as a way to rank up (that's what you quoted - if you go back in the transcript you will see that this is under the Phase 2 section of the update), then (in Phase 3) they are getting rid of ranks completely and the XP will be used for Champion Points.

@ZOS_GinaBruno answered this for me a couple of weeks back:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Welka wrote: »

Well no, my understanding is that the XP will go towards the champion system, since the veteran system is going altogether

It's very frustrating to have no comm on the subject from ZOS. The whole thing is confusing and most info we have is from speculation.

This discussion I had with @Laura sums up the confusion quite well:

Enodoc wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Laura wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Laura wrote: »

they are NOT taking the veteran ranks out and you will earn champion points while you rank up.

It is still under speculation that all gear may be set to 50 though.

There is an extensive interview on esotr about this

@Laura Have you got a link to that interview? It definitely hasn't been made very clear whether the end-result Champion system is an outright replacement to Veteran Ranks or being added as a parallel.

Personally I would like it as a parallel, that way there is both the horizontal progression of Champion Ratings and the vertical progression of Vet Ranks.

@Enodoc

http://elderscrollsotr.mymiddleearth.com/2014/07/11/episode-118-update-3-w-paul-sage/

this interview is long and I don't remember where he said it but I know he explicitly said they are NOT removing veteran ranks when it was asked in the interview.

That's great, thanks. +1 to the count of "parallel" then :P
Parallel leads 3:1 over replacement

Having just listened to the whole section on the Veteran System update, I still think it's ambiguous. @ZOS_PaulSage only said they are not removing Veteran Ranks when Veteran Points are exchanged for XP (Phase 2). He still hasn't said what happens to Veteran Ranks at Phase 3, when the Champion System is introduced, aside from that Champion Points will be gained by XP.
He did make a mention to "everybody level 50 and above", and also mentioned [paraphrased:] "introducing new Season gear that is not restricted by level", which both to me suggest that Veteran Ranks (above 50) and Veteran Gear will still exist.

I just wish someone @ZOS would come and give clarification. Even if they come and say that they haven't answered the question yet because they haven't completely decided whether to do away with VRs completely.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌, @ZOS_GinaBruno‌, please, try and find out for us whether Champion Points are an outright replacement or a parallel system to Veteran Ranks.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌, @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ we're still waiting on that clarification :P

Once the Champion System has been fully rolled out, it will replace Veteran Ranks. Don't worry, we'll go into much more detail as we get closer to releasing this new system. It's still being developed, though, so there are still some unknowns.

All that means is that the developers are not on the same page.

They are 100% contradicting each other at this point and some clarification is in order. If they haven't decided yet, then fine. But we are getting two completely different answers from credible sources.

---

AND what this all means is although we cannot know for sure WHEN they will reveal more information...we can most assuredly know that no one on the staff is going to provide more details at this time IF it will be controversial or cause angst and rile up the crowd before whatever it is they actually have decided is activated.

As is usual, we will have to wait until near the actual live release of the Champion System at which time they will blow the bugles and 'present' this exciting new change that is or may have a new name/be called something different than "VR ranks". It is going to add a choice of 'perks/stats/something' to our VR characters progression across accounts in direct correlation to whoever has played the longest, and/or whoever plays the most. They are also instituting the "Enlightenment" thingie which is something along the lines of 'rested experience points' many other MMO's provide as in, when your character is logged off, there is some small amount of e x p being accrued which you receive upon your next log in. For some folks that is motivational.

This is exciting from the point of view that it provides progression/growth for your character via a timeline alongside the new season gear sets which will be available. But it will proceed without demanding or insisting that players do any specific 'content'. Win-win

Now be patient until they give us some new info!

Alphashado wrote: »

Paul Sage:
"We are going to get rid of Veteran points - Veteran ranks are going to be gained through experience point gain. That means instead of going through and having to worry about whether you're gaining Veteran points in this way you'll have a very predictable path and actually faster path through your Veteran ranks."

They just haven't decided yet. It's really that simple.

Ojustaboo wrote: »

Interviewer: Whats going to happen to gear thats above level 50 the vet rank gear, how are people going to obtain that gear or is it all being set to 50?

Paul: When we take away Veteran points, that's not going to take away veteran ranks, its just that veteran points are being associated with normal experience now, so you will gain veteran ranks through experience, it wont affect the itemisation.

All of these quotes from Paul are regarding Phase 2 of the update. There is nothing aside from what I quoted from @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ that explains what is going to happen in Phase 3.

Changing to a system similar to EQ AA levels sounds a lot better.

If in a year or two when they finally fix this game, they can then bring out expansions to increase the level cap 50-60 and so on, while still keeping your perks from the champion system.

To be a little fairer though, we were never going to get a clarification on this matter.
If you think about it, to clarify it would mean they have a set and finished idea of what this new system is going to be. Lets be honest here, that have no idea what the newly advertised VR/Champion system is going to look like when finished.
Zenimax spent that many years designing this game, then as a knee-jerk reaction they have to redesign a 'massive' chunk of the game after only 3 months ! Even during BETA the VR system was being complained about and to be fair to Zenimax it was too late by then, things were already rolling.
The announcement of the Champion system was a carrot and stick gesture to appease those who were not happy with VR, nothing more.
We should be grateful Zenimax have at least admitted they screwed it up and are fixing it, they still have t figure out exactly how they are going to accomplish that ! As usual we won't get any concrete details until it hits the PTS.

@Zenimax - Put it on the PTS early so you can listen and fix things in time, not leave it too late as you have done with things in the past !

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

To be a little fairer though, we were never going to get a clarification on this matter.
If you think about it, to clarify it would mean they have a set and finished idea of what this new system is going to be. Lets be honest here, that have no idea what the newly advertised VR/Champion system is going to look like when finished.
Zenimax spent that many years designing this game, then as a knee-jerk reaction they have to redesign a 'massive' chunk of the game after only 3 months ! Even during BETA the VR system was being complained about and to be fair to Zenimax it was too late by then, things were already rolling.
The announcement of the Champion system was a carrot and stick gesture to appease those who were not happy with VR, nothing more.
We should be grateful Zenimax have at least admitted they screwed it up and are fixing it, they still have t figure out exactly how they are going to accomplish that ! As usual we won't get any concrete details until it hits the PTS.

@Zenimax - Put it on the PTS early so you can listen and fix things in time, not leave it too late as you have done with things in the past !

Hence no control of their end game. Even the TORtanic at least had a design, itemization (even though it was food stamp system) and an unwavering vision. this seems like alpha design white board meeting.

---

"unwavering vision."

Still sad that isn't what TESO has turned out to have. There is a difference between flexibility and blowin' in the wind. Looking to the future, but its harder now.

Maybe this clip of Konkle speaking directly about Veteran Rank Levels Specifically and the Gear which is Veteran Rank will help clear this matter up....

EDIT: For some reason the starting point wasnt loading. Go to 1:12:40 and listen through about 1:15:30.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzTpTtWcmYU&list=PLGtuqcQxqHoy1a38fYx1CkebhJf_40Tku&index=1

Also these images were screen capped from QGN twitch channel in a response from @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ and I also got confirmation from her that we will not lose XP from quest we are currently doing in 50++ VR zones now....





Hope that information helps

~Defatank
Great Architect Founder

MeowGinger wrote: »

So what will happen to the increased softcaps from level 50/VR1 to VR12? What will happen to the VR12 gear -- will it be converted to level 50 gear? Will the stats, bonuses, and enchants be brought down from VR12 to level 50? What about the levels of the mobs in veteran alliances, Cyrodiil, and Craglorn -- will they stay as they are or will they be brought down to level 50 too? What about VR5 potions and foods/drinks?

I don't think they'll rebalance levels 1-50 so that level 50 players have VR12 stats, which probably means that players above VR1 will essentially be nerfed (minus 110 points in each attribute compared to VR12, lower softcaps, weaker set bonuses, weaker enchants, weaker potions, weaker foods, so on). Or maybe they will... and also rebalance 18 zones' worth of content (excluding starter zones and Upper Craglorn, forget about the two other upcoming zones)...? I'm not convincing myself here.

And what about a "power creep" issue and the new gear? Unless we're talking in terms of set bonuses as opposed to armor stats, armor can only get so powerful -- and individual players can only get so many combat-related champion passives -- before PvP becomes ridiculous.

I don't think they thought this through. While I like the idea of spending "champion" points to get additional passives, I don't think I like where this is going. This doesn't look like it can be the carrot-on-a-stick players were asking for.

I'm not against changing the veteran system; I think it needs a change, maybe a huge overhaul as currently planned. But I have my doubts about the champion system as described, and there are too many holes not addressed.

Alpha end game simply put.

Defatank wrote: »

Maybe this clip of Konkle speaking directly about Veteran Rank Levels Specifically and the Gear which is Veteran Rank will help clear this matter up....

EDIT: For some reason the starting point wasnt loading. Go to 1:12:40 and listen through about 1:15:30.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzTpTtWcmYU&list=PLGtuqcQxqHoy1a38fYx1CkebhJf_40Tku&index=1

Also these images were screen capped from QGN twitch channel in a response from @ZOS_JessicaFolsom‌ and I also got confirmation from her that we will not lose XP from quest we are currently doing in 50++ VR zones now....





Hope that information helps

~Defatank
Great Architect Founder

Is this true? The exp that we are getting right now at VR12 that seems like it is disappearing... it is actually being tracked and will get applied to the champion system?

Forgive me if I am skeptical.

Enodoc wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Paul Sage:
"We are going to get rid of Veteran points - Veteran ranks are going to be gained through experience point gain. That means instead of going through and having to worry about whether you're gaining Veteran points in this way you'll have a very predictable path and actually faster path through your Veteran ranks."

They just haven't decided yet. It's really that simple.

Ojustaboo wrote: »

Interviewer: Whats going to happen to gear thats above level 50 the vet rank gear, how are people going to obtain that gear or is it all being set to 50?

Paul: When we take away Veteran points, that's not going to take away veteran ranks, its just that veteran points are being associated with normal experience now, so you will gain veteran ranks through experience, it wont affect the itemisation.

All of these quotes from Paul are regarding Phase 2 of the update. There is nothing aside from what I quoted from @ZOS_GinaBruno‌ that explains what is going to happen in Phase 3.

Exactly this, and I'm amazed it took over a page to get there.

If you read the OP's quoted text, it's spelled out right there. Paul Sage is talking about phase 2 of the VR update. Phase 1 was the difficulty adjustment. Phase 2 will be the elimination of VP. Phase 3 is the introduction of the Champion system, and that is where they have said that Veteran Ranks will disappear/convert to Champion points.

rsiloliveiraub17_ESO wrote: »

What concerns me is the balance of all this.

How will you make a ex-VR14-nowlvl50 still be better than a recently leveled lvl50? And by the same difference.

They haven't released a lot of details on this, but there are two things:

-Gear
-Champion points (which are account-wide, so this gets muddy when that recently-leveled 50 is on the account of someone who has a ton of champion points already).

This 1.4 patch guarantees they won't get rid of vet levels. It would make no sense to add even more gear you have to re-itemize when you switch all the gear to level 50. I would be totally insane for a company to go out of their way to add something that will make more work for them for no reason at all.