Every major update reminds me why relying on 3rd party add-ons for basic features...

Muletide · August 2014

Personally, after using add-ons in other MMOs (UI clutter, update headaches, errors, etc.) I really like the minimal UI approach. It's nice to have a full screen of game play, not a HUD that looks like I'm flying a vessel to another galaxy.

A built in scrolling combat text would be great though (on/off toggle of course).

MercyKilling · August 2014

daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »

...sucks.

Two of 'em crash right away. Now get to log out, then go spend 20 minutes updating them all. Assuming they have updates yet.

Joy.

This kind of crap is what I always think of when some doofus chimes in with: "Duh, what are you complaining about--there's an add-on for that" when a basic, common-to-mmos-but-missing-in-ESO feature is brought up.

Then learn to play without them. I don't have a single one installed, and I do just fine, thankew.

Gillysan wrote: »

People who aren't using addons in this game have no idea what they are missing.

Sure I do. This kind of heartache. Whenever a game update/patch comes down the pipe, having to redownload and install this stuff all over again.

No, I took the time to learn how to play without all these "basic features" most people are griping about.

It most certainly is not Zenimax's fault some players got so used to having their hands held while playing or rely too much on "playing the add ons" than playing the game.

kijima · August 2014

But how much better would you do with them?

That is the question only you can answer trying both with and without.

P.S. By better, I'm not implying being more beastly, you could be better with time management with some add ons.

MercyKilling · August 2014

daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »

Want to see what you just looted without opening you're bag or turning OFF auto-loot? You need an addon.

You're going to have to turn off auto loot once the justice system hits or rack up a large bounty for just going to the bank. Not to mention just how HARD is it to turn off auto loot or open you bag? Jebus, as if a couple more mouse clicks is waaaaay too much effort for some people.

daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »

Want to hear a chime when someone sends you a tell, rather than it get lost in the text of your chat window so you never even see it? You need an addon.

No you don't. Put tells in their own tab, change their color...and when I get one? The TELLS tab lights up. There's an option for this if you just bother to look for it.

daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »

Want to have the ability to do a basic search in the Guild Store? You need an addon.

I will agree that search options are highly basic and somewhat difficult, but I've still been able to find what I'm looking for...it just takes *SHOCK AND HORROR* a bit more time and effort to find them.

daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »

Want to get a basic combat log in a chat window so you can see damage/heals/crits? You need an addon.

Perhaps the only truth here.

daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »

Want to silence the annoying, repetitious NPC banker's dialog that triggers every freaking time you jump out/in to the bank interface to go between Bank, Guild Bank, Guild Store? You need an addon.

Or you could just go into the options and mute dialogue. Or mute the game entirely, like I do and play with my own music. No add on necessary.

daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »

This isn't about cheats, or having things handed to us. It's not even about filling in features that were consciously left out--like a minimap, which I can understand as conscious design decisions. It's about very basic stuff that there's just no excuse not to have in game in a modern MMO.

Which is exactly why it should be left out. To break the dependency on these things.
However, most everything you listed as "basic stuff" -IS- in the game, you just have to find the workaround or go looking for it...so yes. It really IS about wanting stuff just handed to you rather than learn how THIS game does things.
Which is perfectly fine, just don't ruin it for those of us that don't mind putting forth a bit of effort and time, please.

Edit:

kijima wrote: »

But how much better would you do with them?

That is the question only you can answer trying both with and without.

P.S. By better, I'm not implying being more beastly, you could be better with time management with some add ons.

See...I'm playing a game not trying to get a raise at my job. I know the definition of the word "play" and it does not include words like "efficient" or "time management"., therefore such things do not matter to me when I PLAY this game.
To me, play isn't about stressing "I've got to do better, faster, stronger than anybody else!!!!eleventyone!exclamationpointhere." It's about relaxing and forgetting about these things that are so required and prevalent in my real world life. THIS is meant to be an ESCAPE from that.

I'm not saying one is better than the other.....I'm saying don't project your reasons for playing the game onto me.

kijima · August 2014

I wasn't trying to project anything, if it felt that way then it's just my bad communications skills at play

I did write try though, I wasn't forcing an idea on anyone. Yes, your right, the time management phrase does sound more at home around the office rather than here, and I too play the game to get away from work, but for me spending time in the bank re-stacking items in the guild back so I can make a deposit it a waste of my time when I'd rather be busting skulls, questing and enjoying the spilling of blood in general.

As much as I'd like to stick two daggers in most of my work colleagues, there are laws against that type of thing, and being a good looking rooster yet a pacifist IRL, in prison I'd just end up being someones special shower time friend. So the idea of game where I get to stab people is much more palatable than the shower time friend alternative.

I'm still sticking to my post of trying add on's though, even if it's just looking at what they can offer you. You'll never know if you'd like it or hate something if you never try it. That's all I'm saying.

Daethz · August 2014

Agreed. The UI is far too minimalistic.

Suggestion: More UI Features & a Ingame UI Builder, look at swtors, it is probably the best piece of coding in that entire game.

Gillysan · August 2014

Wow, you really don't know what you are missing! Amazing...

Cogo · August 2014

Cyberdown wrote: »

I really hated this system in WOT as well. You would go through effort to get the games UI to where it should be (not that this games UI sucks) and then next patch comes and everythings broken and you have to deal with a Spartan UI for a few days/weeks....and that's if the author is around to fix it.

Basic things like skyshard map and that addon that puts info on the mouse over info on resources....just stick that in game already.

Basic things like the skyshard map?
READ about the game. There are HIDDEN skyshards for you to find....its a FEATURE....its hunt for you to do. And you get a tip in your journal.

Skyshard map IN THE GAME UI?

Go play something else.......please

Cogo · August 2014

Style-wise, ESO‘s interface most strongly resembles Skyrim’s minimalist approach, which some players loved and others hated. Can you talk a little about the things that inspired ESO‘s interface in that light?

Matt Firor:
It wasn’t so much copying Skyrim’s interface as it was trying to build on one of the most important parts of Skyrim: Moment to moment gameplay is about looking at the world, not at the UI. The compass is small and unobtrusive, but tells you what you need to know, enemies in the game give you “tells” that you respond to instead of buttons flashing on the button bar, etc.

http://time.com/48728/elder-scrolls-online-interview/

Like it or not....this is the game you bought.

Valije · August 2014

I find funny to read some comments about "Zenimax responsability" on addons. Every new addon have a mandatory README file. You should do what its name says...

On the other hand saying that "they changed things without notice" is not true. They published the new API a while ago and there was the PTS server.

A couple of patches ago one of the addons I used stopped working. It seems the guy does not play ESO anymore. Did I cry in the forums? No. I learned very basic lua and did a replacement myself. It really is easy for the smaller plugins and the bigger ones will probably need only a few lines of code changed.

Remember, those guys who make plugins are players too and will probably have a job and a family to take care of.

It is hard to live in the first world with all these problems...

nicholaspingasb16_ESO · August 2014

daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »

...sucks.

Two of 'em crash right away. Now get to log out, then go spend 20 minutes updating them all. Assuming they have updates yet.

Joy.

This kind of crap is what I always think of when some doofus chimes in with: "Duh, what are you complaining about--there's an add-on for that" when a basic, common-to-mmos-but-missing-in-ESO feature is brought up.

Obscure · August 2014

Minimalist UI is exactly what I use my Addons for. You think tabbing to veiw the map every 30 seconds is minimalist? Having to slog through an inventory with no filters to change a weapon minimalist? I'd be willing to bet I see and use less UI with my collection of addons than you folks playing without them see...

Just go get Loot Drop alone, turn auto-loot on in your game play options, and you'll only begin to notice just how much more UI bull *** you have to put up with than I do. That little UI pop up of stuff to loot? Yeah I only see a 5 second ticker until that *** is off the screen and I'm moving on with my life...scratch that, while I'm moving on with my life. Its a substandard UI and the Devs use Add-on functionality to cop out on making a quality customizable UI. Basic stuff! I'm not infringing on a minimalist UI when my compass turns red when I'm in combat...and stays that way to let me know I'm still in combat because there's literally no cue for that built into the core UI.

I use my addons to avoid dealing with menus and map screens and checking my weapons to see if the enchantments are drained. The UI I use is less fussing with bull *** than the core UI. You want immersion? Get addons. You want every effin metric the API can give you? Use addons. You want to make an argument from ignorance that addons despoil the "minimalist" UI? Don't confuse the terms minimalist with incomplete...

CapuchinSeven · August 2014

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

So, it boils down to the basic optimist/pessimist lookout at things.

Sure, because me wanting to simply search for "Iron Hide" without needing an addon is just me being needy.

ugh the extent that people will go to, to defend a game with this many issues rather than telling them, "you've made a wonderful game, but you really need to get on top of these things", don't even get me started on the game breaking bugs every damn patch.

Merlight · August 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

1. Addons aren't essential for the game. I don't care if you miss having everything laid out for you in a UI that covers half the screen. They aren't essential. Never will be.

When AdvancedFilters break, I log out, go check updates, or try to fix myself. I'm simply not playing without this addon - it's essential to me. Vanilla inventory UI is a pain to use. It even contradicts the usual "immersion" argument.

diamondeyethunderbow_ESO · August 2014

daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »

...sucks.

Two of 'em crash right away. Now get to log out, then go spend 20 minutes updating them all. Assuming they have updates yet.

Joy.

This kind of crap is what I always think of when some doofus chimes in with: "Duh, what are you complaining about--there's an add-on for that" when a basic, common-to-mmos-but-missing-in-ESO feature is brought up.

There aren't any "basic features" missing in the first place. Just dispense with your add-ons.

diamondeyethunderbow_ESO · August 2014

jrgray93 wrote: »

There is no reason us people who want these UI features shouldn't be able to have them. Those who don't can just disable them. That's the beauty of an optional UI element. ESO is missing some very basic UI features that us MMO veterans need to fully enjoy the game how we want to.

I need numerical feedback on my damage and healing statistics. I don't want some vague health bar that provides me with no clue as to what is going on. But hey, if that's the experience you want, I see no reason why you can't just disable those numbers that I rely upon.

Relying on addons has been a major pain. I am very grateful for the people developing them, however.

Because you don't actually need them and shouldn't have access to them.

You having access to them affects the entire community. This information is where flavor-of-the-month, cookie-cutter builds and formula game play come from, and then impose themselves on the community. People can't just "turn it off" because they inevitably end up with unsolicited advice and problems getting into groups from half-wits that get access to this information, or what passes for wisdom from on high from the "top" players, and insist everyone else play that way in the name of efficiency.

So yes, there's an insurmountable reason why you shouldn't have these things - they inevitably change the game community to the detriment of everyone else's playstyle. Stop enjoying the game that way, or stop playing.

This is coming, by the way, from someone who is an MMO veteran and has played that way, and I also play the most numbers-intensive game there is - EVE. Don't tell me you need this stuff. You don't.

diamondeyethunderbow_ESO · August 2014

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »

I do however expect basic features in an MMO to be in the actual game.
[...]
It's about very basic stuff that there's just no excuse not to have in game in a modern MMO.

This.

The only thing there's no excuse for is complaining about "basic" features that belong in a "modern" MMO. MMOs need to change direction completely. The entire community is drowning in a sea of uniformity, player convenience, avoidance of socialization, and general crap from a community that thinks getting to the "endgame" and beating it as rapidly as possible is the point.

EVE. Play it. Then you'll understand why everything "MMO veterans" think is wrong, and just how good ESO is for stomping all over these "basic" features.

diamondeyethunderbow_ESO · August 2014

Obscure wrote: »

Minimalist UI is exactly what I use my Addons for. You think tabbing to veiw the map every 30 seconds is minimalist? Having to slog through an inventory with no filters to change a weapon minimalist? I'd be willing to bet I see and use less UI with my collection of addons than you folks playing without them see...

Those things at the top, that select weapons or armor, or materials? Those are called "filters". As for "looking at the map every 30 seconds", learn to navigate.

Just go get Loot Drop alone, turn auto-loot on in your game play options, and you'll only begin to notice just how much more UI bull *** you have to put up with than I do. That little UI pop up of stuff to loot? Yeah I only see a 5 second ticker until that *** is off the screen and I'm moving on with my life...scratch that, while I'm moving on with my life. Its a substandard UI and the Devs use Add-on functionality to cop out on making a quality customizable UI. Basic stuff! I'm not infringing on a minimalist UI when my compass turns red when I'm in combat...and stays that way to let me know I'm still in combat because there's literally no cue for that built into the core UI.

Yeah.. no. I don't want some addon controlling what I loot, and there's nothing "substandard" about you having to deal with it. Looting takes all of 1 second unless you're completely full.

I use my addons to avoid dealing with menus and map screens and checking my weapons to see if the enchantments are drained. The UI I use is less fussing with bull *** than the core UI. You want immersion? Get addons. You want every effin metric the API can give you? Use addons. You want to make an argument from ignorance that addons despoil the "minimalist" UI? Don't confuse the terms minimalist with incomplete...

So in other words, it basically eliminates having to pay attention to the game. I mean really, not having to look at the map? That's utter crap. As for "argument from ignorance", that isn't what that term means.

reggielee · August 2014

to the OP.. I agree tho I use (or used to use 4 addons). when the update happened and they didnt work anymore I barely noticed as I hadnt gotten too reliant on them with the exception of researchui or whatever its called. now I resort to pen and paper .. old school style heh

CapuchinSeven · August 2014

diamondeyethunderbow_ESO wrote: »

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

daneyulebub17_ESO wrote: »

I do however expect basic features in an MMO to be in the actual game.
[...]
It's about very basic stuff that there's just no excuse not to have in game in a modern MMO.

This.

The only thing there's no excuse for is complaining about "basic" features that belong in a "modern" MMO. MMOs need to change direction completely. The entire community is drowning in a sea of uniformity, player convenience, avoidance of socialization, and general crap from a community that thinks getting to the "endgame" and beating it as rapidly as possible is the point.

EVE. Play it. Then you'll understand why everything "MMO veterans" think is wrong, and just how good ESO is for stomping all over these "basic" features.

OH please, there is very little to ESO that breaks the mold. It's a great game and if they could just get it fixed and keep it fixed (to the extent that it doesn't feel like they are breaking it every patch) it will be even better, but if you think having a crap UI with zero way to just simply search for the item you're looking to buy is "breaking the mold" then you must have had a very strange mold.

Divinius · August 2014

Every person in this thread that is "anti-addon" seems to think that ALL addons are game-breaking, cheater-enabling, UI-cluttering hogs. While I'll freely admit that some of them certainly are, there are SO many that are not this at all, and are things that if ZOS added to the game, not a single person would complain about.

Also, most of the "anti-addon" people also say "I've never used any addons!" Because of this, I don't feel that they have any right to comment about how "addons are totally unnecessary." Refer to my "grandma and the microwave" post earlier in the thread. You can't talk about the usefulness of something you've never tried. Some addons are just very simple, non-invasive tweaks to the UI that do nothing other than improve it in ways that should have been done by the devs.

I'll list a few:
Advanced Filters - adds subcategories to the main inventory catagories, to allow players to further sort the items in their inventory.
Stack Split Slider - simple addon that just adds a slider bar to the stack split window, so you don't have to click the + or - buttons a hundred times or type in the number. Just slide the bar with the mouse.
Horse Feed Confirmation - adds an "are you sure" dialog to the horse feeding options. Given that there's an "are you sure" dialog everywhere else in this game where it's totally unnecessary (like selling all junk, given that there's a freaking buyback option), why the horse feeding option (which there is absolutely no "undo" for) doesn't have one is beyond me.
Item Saver - adds a single option to the right-click menu that allows the player to "tag" items in their inventory as things to "save" so that they can't be accidentally sold, deconstructed, etc.

I challenge all of the "anti-addon" people out there to just try out some of these, and then come back and explain how their addition to the core game would negatively impact them, in any way. Especially Advanced Filters. Find me one person that doesn't think that addon should be a core game feature, and I'll find you a troll that is lying, and only arguing for arguments sake.

Xeres14 · August 2014

I'm going to disagree with the OP a little. Yeah ESO should have a mini-map and maybe a combat log (not just a death recap).

But addons help develop a gaming community. Plus ZO can't think of everything or someone will come along with a good idea to enhance something already in game.

Take your smart phones (android in particular). Just about everything that comes with the phone there's most likely an app that's better. I see it as similar.

twev · August 2014

Cogo wrote: »

Style-wise, ESO‘s interface most strongly resembles Skyrim’s minimalist approach, which some players loved and others hated. Can you talk a little about the things that inspired ESO‘s interface in that light?

Matt Firor:
It wasn’t so much copying Skyrim’s interface as it was trying to build on one of the most important parts of Skyrim: Moment to moment gameplay is about looking at the world, not at the UI. The compass is small and unobtrusive, but tells you what you need to know, enemies in the game give you “tells” that you respond to instead of buttons flashing on the button bar, etc.

http://time.com/48728/elder-scrolls-online-interview/

Like it or not....this is the game you bought.

The game I bought claimed to support a robust add-on community.
Which is why I bought it.
This game however is the one that I'll no longer support with a subscription.
I know you won't miss my $15/month.
But I'm willing to believe the game would have been better with more players in the world, and subscription fees paying the devs than fewer.

But what do I know?
It'll probably be better for you when more people leave, and with luck, some new people might stick around after that first 'free' month as I was prepared to do.

You want to play the minimalist game the way you want to, but you keep insisting that I can't play the game with more add-ons like *I* want to play it.
And make no mistake, every time you post about how the game doesn't need the add-on support that many of us ask for - you're voting to withhold add-on support for your fellow players who bought the game based on ZENI's claim of supporting add-on authors.

::shrugg::
Thanks for the tolerance.

Obscure · August 2014

diamondeyethunderbow_ESO wrote: »

Obscure wrote: »

Minimalist UI is exactly what I use my Addons for. You think tabbing to veiw the map every 30 seconds is minimalist? Having to slog through an inventory with no filters to change a weapon minimalist? I'd be willing to bet I see and use less UI with my collection of addons than you folks playing without them see...

Those things at the top, that select weapons or armor, or materials? Those are called "filters". As for "looking at the map every 30 seconds", learn to navigate.

Just go get Loot Drop alone, turn auto-loot on in your game play options, and you'll only begin to notice just how much more UI bull *** you have to put up with than I do. That little UI pop up of stuff to loot? Yeah I only see a 5 second ticker until that *** is off the screen and I'm moving on with my life...scratch that, while I'm moving on with my life. Its a substandard UI and the Devs use Add-on functionality to cop out on making a quality customizable UI. Basic stuff! I'm not infringing on a minimalist UI when my compass turns red when I'm in combat...and stays that way to let me know I'm still in combat because there's literally no cue for that built into the core UI.

Yeah.. no. I don't want some addon controlling what I loot, and there's nothing "substandard" about you having to deal with it. Looting takes all of 1 second unless you're completely full.

I use my addons to avoid dealing with menus and map screens and checking my weapons to see if the enchantments are drained. The UI I use is less fussing with bull *** than the core UI. You want immersion? Get addons. You want every effin metric the API can give you? Use addons. You want to make an argument from ignorance that addons despoil the "minimalist" UI? Don't confuse the terms minimalist with incomplete...

So in other words, it basically eliminates having to pay attention to the game. I mean really, not having to look at the map? That's utter crap. As for "argument from ignorance", that isn't what that term means.

...an argument from ignorance stating its not one is all the more certain to be one...

You don't use addons, you don't know what using them is like, and you make an argument against them lacking information, experience, or expertise. I.E. you make an argument from ignorance. Please enlighten me in how this is not the case.

Like I said. Try just Loot Drop. It doesn't loot anything for you, it just tells you what you looted since if you choose the built in UI option to auto loot it gives you no indication of what you just picked up. Are you so biased you can't even consider the notion that the ESO UI is substandard and thus you can't bring yourself to use any even for the sake of making an informed argument? Because if so it precludes your perspective from making any valid objective argument.

Tubben · August 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Tubben wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

3. Even if the first two things weren't true, it's still not ZO's problem. Addons are maintained by third-party developers. It's their job to fix addons if an update breaks them.

It is if i cancel my subscription because i cant stand that lousy UI

Then ask them to change the UI instead of whining about them not also doing the addon developers' jobs for them.

Where did i whine? There will be a point where i cant stand that UI anymore, where all the design errors that they have made weigh more than the fun i get out of this game.

At this point i will just cancel my subscription.

Tubben · August 2014

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Well, you're right that they made a mistake in choosing option 1. They should have just disallowed addons in the first place. That would have solved everyone's problems.

Can only speak for myself, but then i would never bought ESO.

Cogo · August 2014

twev wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

Style-wise, ESO‘s interface most strongly resembles Skyrim’s minimalist approach, which some players loved and others hated. Can you talk a little about the things that inspired ESO‘s interface in that light?

Matt Firor:
It wasn’t so much copying Skyrim’s interface as it was trying to build on one of the most important parts of Skyrim: Moment to moment gameplay is about looking at the world, not at the UI. The compass is small and unobtrusive, but tells you what you need to know, enemies in the game give you “tells” that you respond to instead of buttons flashing on the button bar, etc.

http://time.com/48728/elder-scrolls-online-interview/

Like it or not....this is the game you bought.

The game I bought claimed to support a robust add-on community.
Which is why I bought it.
This game however is the one that I'll no longer support with a subscription.
I know you won't miss my $15/month.
But I'm willing to believe the game would have been better with more players in the world, and subscription fees paying the devs than fewer.

But what do I know?
It'll probably be better for you when more people leave, and with luck, some new people might stick around after that first 'free' month as I was prepared to do.

You want to play the minimalist game the way you want to, but you keep insisting that I can't play the game with more add-ons like *I* want to play it.
And make no mistake, every time you post about how the game doesn't need the add-on support that many of us ask for - you're voting to withhold add-on support for your fellow players who bought the game based on ZENI's claim of supporting add-on authors.

::shrugg::
Thanks for the tolerance.

*shrug*

I have never said there was anything wrong with add-ons OR that ESO should not have them. IF you have read my posts, I am ALL for them. Use em as you like. Just dont force the rest of us too.....

If you are going to quote me or answer my post, please keep to the truth!

I even have a specific post where I outline how important add-ons are for ESO.
To make the game suit as many people as possible.

Um, I am saying that the game is perfectly playable without any add-on what so ever. You just have to PLAY the game. Just because I dont use any add-ons, doesnt mean everyone else shouldn't. That should be pretty obvious.

What I HAVE said, is that 2 add-ons have ruined a good time for quote a lot of players. Skyshard add-on and lorebook add-on. People are always lazy....but you go to a theme park to have fun. EVERY TIME I find a skyshard, I get as happy as the first time in late april when I started at launch. Can you say the same?

Please show me the statement where Zenimax promised a robust add-on community?

Zenimax claimed all the time to support add-ons and help that community the best they can. THEY ARE.

Thanks for completely abusing my post for your own agenda. Feel free to disagree or even call me names or what not. As long as you quote what I actually say....and not some politician word wrangler.

sotonin · August 2014

I agree. This is the first MMO I have played where you are actually at a disadvantage to play the game without addons. You just make your life harder and there's so many things that I myself would consider "basic" that ZOS left out.

UI is a huge huge huge pain point that they need to address on many fronts.

Vahrokh · August 2014

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

Choose one of the following:

1. Minimal UI. You can only get more information through add-ons.
2. Maximal UI. All UI elements can be turned of via user settings.

ESO's flaw (read: horrible designers, producers and development team) is that they chose 1 instead of 2.

Maximal UI games are those like SWTOR where you still have a LUA based interface but it's not moddable. So the game must provide everything by itself.
But ESO has it moddable so it does not (and should) not provide everything else there'd be no point letting 3rd party authors create mods to begin with.

On the other side, ESO's "choice" was bad in that. The default UI is abysmal and not because "TES games are meant to have a terse UI".
It's bad because the moment you resort having any "out of action" (ESC key or "modal" window) then immersion is already gone and we are looking at a menu / UI exactly as immersion breaking as it's looking at any MMO menu.
So, immersion broken for immersion broken... why not give the basics like a material type selector and similar. That's really something that should be in the basic game. Allow freedom to mod it but give a sensible default.
I would have considered a "visual timers expiration" add on, but did not even think one day I'd have needed to install a mod to manage something as basic as items filtering.

Also, moddable MMOs rely on reaching a critical mass of authors (they are a MMO marketing tool in itself) so that there's a turnover of them creating alternatives. One guy unsubs, you download one of the 3-4 alternatives. But ESO did not reach that critical mass so we have 1, sometimes 2 mod authors so when they unsub we easily lose an irreplaceable piece of software.

Finally, the ESO's flaw is not your points.
It's the changing API.

Like many other very questionable programming (mis)practices, ESO API is another of their weak points.

APIs exist to provide a set of programming interfaces one may rely on for a sustained amount of time.
When existing functionalities become obsolete, the function names and parameters HAVE to stay available for backwards compatibility.
Had ESO API been managed with a minimum of competence, day 1 mods would still work today. They would not take advantage of new features and maybe they could spew incorrect numbers or miss the newest abilities in their logs. But they would not break and show lots of LUA errors, except in rare cases where the 3rd party addon would be made bad and would not cover special cases like detecting and avoiding a division by zero.

To make an example: I have created a low level C++ 16 bit DLL in 1991. Today it runs in 64 bit software, not a single parameter name or type had to be adapted.
Sure the example is extreme and the DLL interface only got 150 or so functions but ESO ever-changing API with no backwards compatibility is way off the other side.

Cogo · August 2014

sotonin wrote: »

I agree. This is the first MMO I have played where you are actually at a disadvantage to play the game without addons. You just make your life harder and there's so many things that I myself would consider "basic" that ZOS left out.

UI is a huge huge huge pain point that they need to address on many fronts.

Please explain?

How is this a disadvantage? I am vet 4. Heavy armor tank. Tanked all the vet Dungeons, done some of the HARD undaunted achievements.

I have found enough skyshards to have skills enough but sure, I missed skyshards since I dont have the computer pointing out where they are. I had to find them on my own....and choose my skills carefully because of it. This might be why I have not needed to respec?

I have not respected ONCE.

I do alright in Cyro. I been in teams where we use tactics to stop the enemy from spawning in the keep etc.

I can solo in Vet areas. I have pretty good understanding how my weapons and skills works.

I have to add. I play pretty much every day. Since 5 day early beta. My "played says 36days. Sure, making a guild takes time, but the rest was PLAYING.
I could spend WEEKS in a zone, exploring whatever......I have fun every time I play the game!

Please tell me sir, what is my disadvantage? Having more fun? Learning how things works without the computer telling me?