Why did ZOS create Craglorn?

coryevans_3b14_ESO · August 2014

I do realize the reasoning behind them creating it. But there is no doubt that Craglorn(exploitlorn) is a complete joke. Sit there and watch zone chat and all you'll see is people trying to find grind groups (exploit groups) who are just trying to level and cannot be bothered to quest.

My v10 has been at that level for 3 weeks and it's impossible to find a group to quest with.

Just change it so things can be soloed already. Craglorn never should have been designed the way it is. Don't get me started on the ridiculousness of trials and what it's done to the nerf debate. Don't design a game saying "play how you want" and at the same time make it so you have to go skirt/stick if you want to compete with trial times.

What a ridiculous idea of what end-game should be.

Natjur · August 2014

I have completed all the quests in Craglorn, but it was with a group of mates, not random people on Craglorn.

The biggest issues with the quests in Craglorn is ALL members have to be on the same step (and the quests are long chains with lots of parts) for them to trigger some steps.

Most people in Craglorn are there for the easy exp farms. Remove thoses and the zone will be like any other zone and grouping for quests will happen more offen. BUT some players WANT the exp grind, and hate quests, so Craglorn gives them options.

I believe if they improve the LFG tool (maybe even a LFG channel that is across all zones but limited by level) this will fix the issues with questing in Craglorn (and anywhere else)

The quests in Craglorn have been the most fun (and sometimes the most hated) quests I have done in this game, they have lots of details and interesting boss events but it is odd for a game that can be soloed from L1 to LV10 that the last zone, all quests are group only.

coryevans_3b14_ESO · August 2014

Natjur wrote: »

I have completed all the quests in Craglorn, but it was with a group of mates, not random people on Craglorn.

The biggest issues with the quests in Craglorn is ALL members have to be on the same step (and the quests are long chains with lots of parts) for them to trigger some steps.

Most people in Craglorn are there for the easy exp farms. Remove thoses and the zone will be like any other zone and grouping for quests will happen more offen. BUT some players WANT the exp grind, and hate quests, so Craglorn gives them options.

I believe if they improve the LFG tool (maybe even a LFG channel that is across all zones but limited by level) this will fix the issues with questing in Craglorn (and anywhere else)

Good point about the phasing with quests. You pretty much all have to start at the same time or it can't be done.

The fact that people don't want to quest also blows my mind. Why the heck would you play an rpg at all then?

Vunter · August 2014

Nice to meet, I'm one of those "exploiters". Do you think I should do all the quests of zones (because if you don't do most of them you just don't level) with all my characters?
It would be just crazy.

GFBStarWars · August 2014

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

The fact that people don't want to quest also blows my mind. Why the heck would you play an rpg at all then?

Completely agree, hate to see that zos didn't nerf to the ground the xp farming when it became knowledge.

Grinding is ok, but should be comparable to questing not "the best way to get to vr12".

The only way to do the quest in claglorn right now is to find a group and do them always together so that the phasing will never occur.

LFG and zone chat is not suitable to play claglorn as it was intended

siledre · August 2014

some people like questing, some like pvp, some like grinding, there's more than just you and I in this game, they are trying to find a happy place for everyone.

kherzaheb17_ESO · August 2014

i agree , craglorn content is a joke.When it came first , it was look like developped so fast and they didn't test it too much.Thats why we are not seeing any adventure zones yet.Because it wasn't intented but they gave words to release content every 4 weeks or 6 weeks.Thats why craglorn is absurd with trials and about other content which it has.It has 2 trials yet those trials don't give any good prize.Not just armour , those trials can give unique mount for a week (after 1 week it may vanish so everyone can do it again other week ) , can give awesome costume for a week ,etc.

For me and few people which i know of thinking that developers don't give a damm thing about people suggestion and which i heard of they are listening only few specific guilds for correcting game ?!?!

Natjur · August 2014

Vunter wrote: »

Nice to meet, I'm one of those "exploiters". Do you think I should do all the quests of zones (because if you don't do most of them you just don't level) with all my characters?
It would be just crazy.

The super easy exp exploits have been removed, but you can still farm exp there (1 million per hr) and the dev's are not going to remove those last ones. They are options for those who do not want to quest to level and I see it as a good thing as more options for players the better.

But this game should be an MMO, not a single player game that has other players going past you. More group options and better grouping tools that makes people what to group (not just for exp) is always welcomed. The new undaunted daily quest line is a good start.

Natjur · August 2014

kherzaheb17_ESO wrote: »

For me and few people which i know of thinking that developers don't give a damm thing about people suggestion and which i heard of they are listening only few specific guilds for correcting game ?!?!

Yes, we can not 'name' the guild or the post will be removed, but there are two guilds which have the 'dev's ear. Which is really annoying as they get special PST instances and even have dev's RUN the instance with them.

I know they need testing.... but only listening to a very small group......does feel wrong.

CheesyDaedra · August 2014

I stopped questing after reaching VR1. And then i made some alts to play the quests in the proper way ._.

coryevans_3b14_ESO · August 2014

Natjur wrote: »

kherzaheb17_ESO wrote: »

For me and few people which i know of thinking that developers don't give a damm thing about people suggestion and which i heard of they are listening only few specific guilds for correcting game ?!?!

Yes, we can not 'name' the guild or the post will be removed, but there are two guilds which have the 'dev's ear. Which is really annoying as they get special PST instances and even have dev's RUN the instance with them.

I know they need testing.... but only listening to a very small group......does feel wrong.

Agreed. I do realize that my opinion doesn't matter at all, but I still seem to feel the need to post about something that is so broken.

coryevans_3b14_ESO · August 2014

siledre wrote: »

some people like questing, some like pvp, some like grinding, there's more than just you and I in this game, they are trying to find a happy place for everyone.

lol funny you said that. Cuz there isn't a happy place for me at all. I pvp a ton but guess what? I don't level there. Grinding should NEVER be a consideration when designing an MMORPG. EVER!

Natjur · August 2014

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

Grinding should NEVER be a consideration when designing an MMORPG. EVER!

Forced grinding yes, optional grinding to level up because you don't want to quest, instances, etc etc should be ok

Clay109 · August 2014

OP is ok i see my self on 1 guild chat (only Trials) lol
..... no quests at all no exploration ( I Love Exploration ) very exiting So Nice

And i'm only vr 7 and i fear what next there.

Oops sorry want to tell you i love playing in group too

^^

coryevans_3b14_ESO · August 2014

This is part my own problem I know. I refuse to "grind" to get to lvl v12 therefore it's my fault I'm not max lvl. I really did want to do the quests. Obviously not going to happen.

traigusb14_ESO2 · August 2014

I'm fine with grinding being an option, as long as it takes as long as it took me to do the 2 other factions.

If it is going to be an equal option, it can't be 70x faster.

MrBeatDown · August 2014

If I want to play a Grinding game ill just load up Diablo II LOD and do chaos baal runs for loot and xp. So boring. They have designed Craglorn like a AARPG, Grind Loot and XP. I had that over 10 years ago guys, common now. Fix this trash.

Vahrokh · August 2014

Natjur wrote: »

Vunter wrote: »

Nice to meet, I'm one of those "exploiters". Do you think I should do all the quests of zones (because if you don't do most of them you just don't level) with all my characters?
It would be just crazy.

The super easy exp exploits have been removed, but you can still farm exp there (1 million per hr) and the dev's are not going to remove those last ones. They are options for those who do not want to quest to level and I see it as a good thing as more options for players the better.

But this game should be an MMO, not a single player game that has other players going past you. More group options and better grouping tools that makes people what to group (not just for exp) is always welcomed. The new undaunted daily quest line is a good start.

Here's the catch: some quests are super hard (I have done AA trial and find it easier), give no reward whatsoever AND give maybe 1/1000 of the XP that a simple "3 bosses grind" gives in one hour.

Now, considering most people are neutral about how to level up, tell me how in hell anyone with no particular opinion for or against questing and grinding would EVER choose questing.

It's now 2 weeks I am in craglorn. In 2 weeks I have found *1* group willing to do *1* quest, that's it.

I have joined 4 different PvE guilds, not a single one wants to touch Craglorn quests even with a stick. We are doing trials with VR6 people before any of them picks a normal quest.

So, in the region born for group play:

- the group tool is just awful, useless and not used by anybody past level 30.

- group play in Craglorn reads: "grinding 3 bosses | Anomalies | Hircine exploit". PERIOD.

Some times, usually at 3 am, you find a good soul who wants to quest. But you can't do anything in 2 and often even in 3.

Craglorn is a testament to utter failure in design, who designed this region should get a mark-of-shame on his curriculum and never find a job again.

lathbury · August 2014

I can usually get guildies or pugs for the daily's I love shadas tear. The problem I have is with the main quest I can't find a group of 4 for the last part and if I only get 3 together we can't even enter it.

Anastasia · August 2014

coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »

I do realize the reasoning behind them creating it. But there is no doubt that Craglorn(exploitlorn) is a complete joke. Sit there and watch zone chat and all you'll see is people trying to find grind groups (exploit groups) who are just trying to level and cannot be bothered to quest.

My v10 has been at that level for 3 weeks and it's impossible to find a group to quest with.

Just change it so things can be soloed already. Craglorn never should have been designed the way it is. Don't get me started on the ridiculousness of trials and what it's done to the nerf debate. Don't design a game saying "play how you want" and at the same time make it so you have to go skirt/stick if you want to compete with trial times.

What a ridiculous idea of what end-game should be.

****OMFG...fills the adult beverage crystal and drinks deeply.
Why not more calls for increasing loot rewards, changing up the group bonus for e x p, or many other MMO vet player suggestions for group-centric content??????

EXACT F-INGLY WHAT WAS PREDICTED ....demands for nerfing the mid-to-upper level content done weeks ago ... now whines because people can not find any groups the occasional time they might want and yet other demands for further nerfing INSTEAD OF BETTER REASONS TO GROUP. Ugly shizz. *UGLY.*

ZOS - pick it up. Just do it. MMO this now please.

Next up: more demands for soloing endgame and getting rid of RvR PvP...
I literally almost find this unfrickking-believable.

PBpsy · August 2014

For people to have fun there. For me it worked great in every aspect from pug grinding zergs to doing dungeons, quests and delves slowly with people in the guild. Yes there are some problems with phasing and grouping but I think they realize what they are and they will fix some of them soon.

flintstone · August 2014

Been there 3 times.......what a waste of internet bandwidth!

Cyberdown · August 2014

Here is what I think the problem is. Ok people can be expected to level up via quests one time through. Aside from drastic changes to that content...a second time you might do some of the quests, the ones you liked maybe...

after that? well it gets a bit...old....SWTOR had this issue with a great storyline once then it was boring to level up again so people looked for other means to progress...which is fine...

However...this game doesn't really have an alternative path to endgame...

And why are these people trying so desperately to hit endgame? Well chances are they want to pvp with those characters...try a new build/class/race/whatever...and so they look for the path of least resistance.

What they should do...is that once you complete the main storyline you should be given a faction locked costume that multiplies pvp xp or something in cyrodiil. This way people could do the main story once per faction then when they wanted a pvp specific set up on a new character could equip this "costume" that had no look but offered better XP while pvping...

Laura · August 2014

the problem with craglorn isn't anything you said. The problem with craglorn is that many quests have to be completed by people that are on the EXACT SAME PART of the quest. This means when you make a craglorn group you have to go with the same group from start to finish and nobody can help you catch up.

because of this most people just give up.

The game needed group content and end game, op, they just didn't implement it very well. Having a raid isn't the reason everyone goes "skirts and sticks" - everyone goes skirts and sticks because stamina builds are - and have always been absolutely horrible.

If anything trials just showed them how bad stamina builds are. You need to be yelling at them to fix stamina builds not complaining that there is end game.

traigusb14_ESO2 · August 2014

Cyberdown wrote: »

Here is what I think the problem is. Ok people can be expected to level up via quests one time through. Aside from drastic changes to that content...a second time you might do some of the quests, the ones you liked maybe...

after that? well it gets a bit...old....SWTOR had this issue with a great storyline once then it was boring to level up again so people looked for other means to progress...which is fine...

However...this game doesn't really have an alternative path to endgame...

And why are these people trying so desperately to hit endgame? Well chances are they want to pvp with those characters...try a new build/class/race/whatever...and so they look for the path of least resistance.

What they should do...is that once you complete the main storyline you should be given a faction locked costume that multiplies pvp xp or something in cyrodiil. This way people could do the main story once per faction then when they wanted a pvp specific set up on a new character could equip this "costume" that had no look but offered better XP while pvping...

That sounds reasonable, but it isn't really true,either about the 2rd time arounds or the huge number of PVP players.

A lot of the people grinding aren't alts or grinding for PVP... they are first characters. They ask in chat... or on forum..." I'm VR1 now what?" Everyone says grind in CL.

The last 5 quest groups I have been in CL have been people that are VR5 and lower. They think CL is a VR1 zone. They think the quests are for VR low levels...everyone tells them to go to CL, it is the "next zone" instead of the 2 other areas because the XP is so high. They think the questing is what you do between grinds.

Game progression is broken.

GFBStarWars · August 2014

Claglorn is a vr10 and over zone, no reason to allow low vr in.
Making claglorn locked to vr10 or as a reward for completing caldwell gold would have fixed this...

too late now

kherzaheb17_ESO · August 2014

when people playing game , they are thinking and saying like this stage by stage ;

1 to 49 level ; wow good game with cool story ,

v1 to v5 level : interesting side of story but little bit bored

v6 to v10 level : when will it be end , wtf is going on , where are all these people , is this somekind a joke ?

v10 to v12 : Come on i need a group to complete this *** craglorn content !!! or i

need a group to grind end of the line!!!

v12 : Those trials are joke.No good prize , no good drops , no challange .There is

no player to do trials with . What the hell is going on ?

KariTR · August 2014

I managed to get just shy of VR11 doing Cadwells. Took a couple of months, but I throughly enjoyed it. I tried one of the trials and didn't enjoy it at all.

I would much rather be questing in Craglorn, but as others have documented well in this thread, it just isn't happening...most people prefer to kill the same boss spawning every 30 seconds over and over. Each to their own, but that is not my idea of fun.

Thank heavens for Cyrodiil.

c0rp · August 2014

The instancing of this game when combined with 3-4 people who need to group up to complete quests which may be on different parts of that questline makes it ridiculously difficult. You will spend more time trying to figure out how to do the quests with them all jacked up between the group players than actually questing. Hence..."LFG burial ground."

dharbert · August 2014

Why did ZOS create Craglorn? For me to gain 1 million xp per hour, or stacks upon stacks of resources per hour.

I like to grind mobs for xp, to level up weapon and skill lines, and for what little bit of gold and loot I get. I quest when I must, but I'd rather grind.

cracker81 · August 2014

Natjur wrote: »

I have completed all the quests in Craglorn, but it was with a group of mates, not random people on Craglorn.

The biggest issues with the quests in Craglorn is ALL members have to be on the same step (and the quests are long chains with lots of parts) for them to trigger some steps.

Most people in Craglorn are there for the easy exp farms. Remove thoses and the zone will be like any other zone and grouping for quests will happen more offen. BUT some players WANT the exp grind, and hate quests, so Craglorn gives them options.

I believe if they improve the LFG tool (maybe even a LFG channel that is across all zones but limited by level) this will fix the issues with questing in Craglorn (and anywhere else)

The quests in Craglorn have been the most fun (and sometimes the most hated) quests I have done in this game, they have lots of details and interesting boss events but it is odd for a game that can be soloed from L1 to LV10 that the last zone, all quests are group only.

Cyrodiil is a last zone, is it not? It is soloable pve part of it. In my opinion it has the best soloable dungeons with a good challenge.