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PVP Legate required for black dye?!?
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aipex8_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Remember also, the rare dyes are iridescent, and you can't tell what their second color is from the display swatch. Legate black could have booger green highlights and look horrible. I wouldn't claim any rare color is most desirable until you actually see how it looks in game.2 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭m.stollb16_ESO wrote: »I like what I've seen of the dye system so far. I also think it makes sense that some colors are hard to get (among them some colors that are very "desirable"). Finally something to work on that not every other VR 12 will have. This MMORPG(!) needs more grinds like this or people will quit once they reach max level!frwinters_ESO wrote: »Of course they are going to make the popular colors linked to harder achievements. They want you to play the game, work for it and feel the accomplishment.
That sort of accomplishment should come from actually accomplishing something, not mindlessly grinding out PVP points. The reward should be something that makes your character unique, more powerful. Putting a COSMETIC item at the end of that carrot stick smacks of little more than punishment of the OCD gamer mindset, and trying to force more people to try something they hate in ANY MMO.
This is NOT the same as incentivizing the grind with meaningful rewards.
If they want to make certain colors hard to get that is fine, but don't force people to play a part of the game that disgusts them in ANY MMO because of the sort of people it attracts (PVP) in order to get it.
Make the same dye available through some difficult or long grindy achievement in PVE play as well. There should be two paths to achieve any dye, if this is to remain a "play how you want" game.
No purely cosmetic item, particularly a desirable one, should be made available exclusively through PVP grinding.7 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »m.stollb16_ESO wrote: »I like what I've seen of the dye system so far. I also think it makes sense that some colors are hard to get (among them some colors that are very "desirable"). Finally something to work on that not every other VR 12 will have. This MMORPG(!) needs more grinds like this or people will quit once they reach max level!frwinters_ESO wrote: »Of course they are going to make the popular colors linked to harder achievements. They want you to play the game, work for it and feel the accomplishment.
That sort of accomplishment should come from actually accomplishing something, not mindlessly grinding out PVP points. The reward should be something that makes your character unique, more powerful. Putting a COSMETIC item at the end of that carrot stick smacks of little more than punishment of the OCD gamer mindset, and trying to force more people to try something they hate in ANY MMO.
This is NOT the same as incentivizing the grind with meaningful rewards.
If they want to make certain colors hard to get that is fine, but don't force people to play a part of the game that disgusts them in ANY MMO because of the sort of people it attracts (PVP) in order to get it.
Make the same dye available through some difficult or long grindy achievement in PVE play as well. There should be two paths to achieve any dye, if this is to remain a "play how you want" game.
No purely cosmetic item, particularly a desirable one, should be made available exclusively through PVP grinding.
This post was just chock full of win.
"I hate pvp, it sucks. PvP'rs are griefers, I don't want them to have anything. pvp takes no skill, pve takes tons of skill."
PvP takes ten times more skill than fighting a predictable ai, however, all the achievements are time consuming. And frankly, there's about a billion different blacks, just pick one that isn't from pvp instead of ranting about what horrible human being pvp'rs are because they don't cuddle you when you enter cyrodiil.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.9 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »"I hate pvp, it sucks. PvP'rs are griefers, I don't want them to have anything. pvp takes no skill, pve takes tons of skill."
Way to put words in my mouth to sensationalize your response.4 -
Aoe_Barbecue✭✭✭✭✭Thalmor Black looks good and it will be very easy to acquire. I already have the necessary achievement, I think.
Thalmor Black:
Legate Black:
Edited by Aoe_Barbecue on August 1, 2014 8:55PM0 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »"I hate pvp, it sucks. PvP'rs are griefers, I don't want them to have anything. pvp takes no skill, pve takes tons of skill."
Way to put words in my mouth to sensationalize your response.
it's called summarizing. I just set it in a more aggressive, and less passive aggressive voice.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.4 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »it's called summarizing. I just set it in a more aggressive, and less passive aggressive voice.
LOL riiiiight. About as much as "...and that is how the smurfs defeated Gargamel" is "summarizing" WWII.Edited by Phinix1 on August 1, 2014 9:04PM2 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »it's called summarizing. I just set it in a more aggressive, and less passive aggressive voice.
LOL riiiiight. About as much as "...and that is how the smurfs defeated Gargamel" is "summarizing" WWII.
Except that might post and your post are related in content?
You could actually address the fact that you did imply the things I filled out for you.
And why you think your hatred of pvp is a valid argument for this.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.3 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »You could actually address the fact that you did imply the things I filled out for you.
Only in your mind, my friend.
Look, I'd love to sit here and nitpick and trade barbs with you, but I'd rather not derail the OP's thread so... /ignored.
Edited by Phinix1 on August 1, 2014 9:08PM3 -
Nocturnalis✭✭✭In life we exercise choice in doing the activities that get us the things we want. We weigh risk versus reward. We either buckle down and do it or say to ourselves that "Gee, guess I don't really want that thing that much" ...And we move on.
No one is forcing you to get this "color" dye in the game. Yes, games should be predominately be "fun" but that is something hard to do in making a game that potentially millions will play. That being said, the different shades of each color are pretty well spread out over different achievements throughout the game. It should be simple enough to find something equivalent to the Legate Black.
If you decide you want the color enough to come to Cyrodiil, I will not hesitate to kill you on sight.
PS. PvPers are just very competitive and get a rush by playing the game play style. Just as much as you enjoy the PVE style. We are not all scumbags, but some of us are.3 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »You could actually address the fact that you did imply the things I filled out for you.
Only in your mind, my friend.
Look, I'd love to sit here and nitpick and trade barbs with you, but I'd rather not derail the OP's thread so... /ignored.
can you actually ignore people on these forums because that would be hilarious.
More passive aggression and an inability to play well with others.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.4 -
GnatB✭✭✭✭Liquid_Time wrote: »The blackest black is from finishing the main quest... research. Vampires too as others have stated. You literally have to squint your eyes to even see a difference between them and the pvp one - and even then the pvp one is lighter.
You know, that's a perfect example of the kind of stupid cosmetic unlocks I hate in games. Once I've finished the game I get the kind of cosmetic look I want. Except that since I've finished, I never really get to enjoy it.
Ah well, at least in this game there will inevitably be expansion packs, (likely out by the time I complete the main story) I can use the cosmetic content in. (Edit: And yes, I don't do "end game" hamster wheels. Like a fairly large percent of players.)
Achievements Suck4 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Liquid_Time wrote: »The blackest black is from finishing the main quest... research. Vampires too as others have stated. You literally have to squint your eyes to even see a difference between them and the pvp one - and even then the pvp one is lighter.
You know, that's a perfect example of the kind of stupid cosmetic unlocks I hate in games. Once I've finished the game I get the kind of cosmetic look I want. Except that since I've finished, I never really get to enjoy it.
Ah well, at least in this game there will inevitably be expansion packs, (likely out by the time I complete the main story) I can use the cosmetic content in. (Edit: And yes, I don't do "end game" hamster wheels. Like a fairly large percent of players.)
It sounds like you don't want to participate in any of the game at all. The main quest isn't even really endgame. Most pvprs aren't even going to have legate either, it is way up there in rank.
DO you just want to sit at level 15 and not play the actual game and just be given everything?Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.3 -
Jaxom✭✭✭✭Liquid_Time wrote: »The blackest black is from finishing the main quest... research. Vampires too as others have stated. You literally have to squint your eyes to even see a difference between them and the pvp one - and even then the pvp one is lighter.
You know, that's a perfect example of the kind of stupid cosmetic unlocks I hate in games. Once I've finished the game I get the kind of cosmetic look I want. Except that since I've finished, I never really get to enjoy it.
Ah well, at least in this game there will inevitably be expansion packs, (likely out by the time I complete the main story) I can use the cosmetic content in. (Edit: And yes, I don't do "end game" hamster wheels. Like a fairly large percent of players.)
You do realize that when you finish the main quest, you are only VR1. That arguement isnt really applicable in this case. Yes to single player games, I agree. Not so much in MMO's.0 -
epoling✭✭✭✭Never going to get any of the dyes and I am not going to complain. What's the point of it? There are some things in games like this you just aren't going to get. At least the devs have gone out of their way in ESO to make sure there are plenty of shades to get no matter what part of the "achievement" system you partake in. I will admit it originally ticked me off but I realized I don't play this game for dyes so why worry about it?
(I hate the notion of "achievements" in games and go out of my way not to get them if at all possible. I have skipped sky shards and points of interest on the map just not to get that idiotic pop-up. Maybe I am just old but I remember a time when it was common to scoff at anybody that played computer games, and worse when they acted like it was some achievement in life. Glad it adds purpose to some people's lives though. Everybody has to like what they like. *smile*)Edited by epoling on August 1, 2014 9:48PM2 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Never going to get any of the dyes and I am not going to complain. What's the point of it? There are some things in games like this you just aren't going to get. At least the devs have gone out of their way in ESO to make sure there are plenty of shades to get no matter what part of the "achievement" system you partake in. I will admit it originally ticked me off but I realized I don't play this game for dyes so why worry about it?
(I hate the notion of "achievements" in games and go out of my way not to get them if at all possible. I have skipped sky shards and points of interest on the map just not to get that idiotic pop-up. Maybe I am just old but I remember a time when it was common to scoff at anybody that played computer games, and worse when they acted like it was some achievement in life. Glad it adds purpose to some people's lives though. Everybody has to like what they like. *smile*)
I think perhaps you are interpreting achievements wrong. I mean, first off, you are playing a computer game, so you are in that same boat. Second off, it doesn't hold the same stigma it used to, but playing these games I would assume you would prefer that.
Third, just because it's called an achievement doesn't mean people think they are getting the nobel prize (not that that's much of an accomplishment with the old white sausage party deciding that stuff, but you get my point.) It's something you accomplished in the context of the game.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.1 -
epoling✭✭✭✭Sorry - I just don't read enough into playing a game to think I have done anything meaningful at all with my time. It is fluff entertainment that takes me away from the real world. And I do know people who live and die by their in-game "achievements". I know that some people value the notion of "accomplishing" something in a game. It is just not something I understand. Then again, not everybody would put value on volunteering at the food bank, so we are even. *smile*
My real point was why be upset because somebody gets a different version of "black" than you? If your idea of fun in a game is tied up in having a specific shade of "black" then you are probably not playing the right game. Never getting the dyes is not going to spoil my game. There are umpteen shades of black and grey. If you play the achievement thing there should be more than one of those to satisfy you.2 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Liquid_Time wrote: »The blackest black is from finishing the main quest... research. Vampires too as others have stated. You literally have to squint your eyes to even see a difference between them and the pvp one - and even then the pvp one is lighter.
You know, that's a perfect example of the kind of stupid cosmetic unlocks I hate in games. Once I've finished the game I get the kind of cosmetic look I want. Except that since I've finished, I never really get to enjoy it.
Ah well, at least in this game there will inevitably be expansion packs, (likely out by the time I complete the main story) I can use the cosmetic content in. (Edit: And yes, I don't do "end game" hamster wheels. Like a fairly large percent of players.)
It's an MMO, and level 50 isn't even max level when you get that dark grey dye from the main questline regardless (you still have VR1-12 to do past there + all of the vet dungeons, raids, etc. to find out the whole story).-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.1 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Never going to get any of the dyes and I am not going to complain. What's the point of it? There are some things in games like this you just aren't going to get. At least the devs have gone out of their way in ESO to make sure there are plenty of shades to get no matter what part of the "achievement" system you partake in. I will admit it originally ticked me off but I realized I don't play this game for dyes so why worry about it?
(I hate the notion of "achievements" in games and go out of my way not to get them if at all possible. I have skipped sky shards and points of interest on the map just not to get that idiotic pop-up. Maybe I am just old but I remember a time when it was common to scoff at anybody that played computer games, and worse when they acted like it was some achievement in life. Glad it adds purpose to some people's lives though. Everybody has to like what they like. *smile*)
And people were silly back then, I am old enough to remember that too
. It's called a "hobby". -First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.1 -
GnatB✭✭✭✭You do realize that when you finish the main quest, you are only VR1. That arguement isnt really applicable in this case. Yes to single player games, I agree. Not so much in MMO's.
And VR1 content is supposedly end game content. (and an extremely silly concept. When you finish the questlines on a horde character you don't start going through the alliance story. When you finish questlines on a Jedi Knight you don't start going through the Sith Warrior story) It's something to give content vultures who sped through the game too fast something to do until the expansion comes out with more *real* content. Alt's are for doing the other story lines.smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »DO you just want to sit at level 15 and not play the actual game and just be given everything?
No, but I do think purely cosmetic content, (which is what dyes are, but I'd also throw in hairstyles, etc.) should be given to players as early as possible, if not at the point they are actually created. Could you imagine having to hit lvl 50 before you could have a pony tail or something? I see no difference between that and having to hit lvl 50 before you get black dye. Best skills in game? Best weapons? Yeah, those you should have to earn.Achievements Suck5 -
MercyKilling✭✭✭✭✭coryevans_3b14_ESO wrote: »MercyKilling wrote: »
I understand some folks not wanting to do 1 or 2 of those, but if you are out because of all of those, go play something else. You obviously don't want to play the game.
You're absolutely right. I pay Zenimax $15 a month to play a game I don't want to play. To top it off, I've said multiple times that I'd much rather pay $1.99 per color ON TOP OF my sub, that's how crazy I am and I don't want to play this game.I am not spending a single penny on the game until changes are made to the game that I want to see.
1) Remove having to be in a guild to sell items to other players at a kiosk.
2) Cosmetic modding for armor and clothing.
3) Difficulty slider.
4) Fully customizable player housing that isn't tied to anything in the game other than having the correct resources and enough gold to build. Don't tie it to PvP, guild membership, or anything at all. Oh, make it instanced so as not to take up world map space, too. Zeni screwed this one up already.
Any /one/ of these things implemented would get me spending again, maybe even subbing.0 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You do realize that when you finish the main quest, you are only VR1. That arguement isnt really applicable in this case. Yes to single player games, I agree. Not so much in MMO's.
And VR1 content is supposedly end game content. (and an extremely silly concept. When you finish the questlines on a horde character you don't start going through the alliance story. When you finish questlines on a Jedi Knight you don't start going through the Sith Warrior story) It's something to give content vultures who sped through the game too fast something to do until the expansion comes out with more *real* content. Alt's are for doing the other story lines.smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »DO you just want to sit at level 15 and not play the actual game and just be given everything?
No, but I do think purely cosmetic content, (which is what dyes are, but I'd also throw in hairstyles, etc.) should be given to players as early as possible, if not at the point they are actually created. Could you imagine having to hit lvl 50 before you could have a pony tail or something? I see no difference between that and having to hit lvl 50 before you get black dye. Best skills in game? Best weapons? Yeah, those you should have to earn.
The content isn't the dye... the reward is the dye.Edited by Attorneyatlawl on August 2, 2014 2:41AM-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.2 -
Cyberdown✭✭✭honestly achievement dyes was a really stupid idea...people will do stuff they don't want to do just for a stupid color...so now youll have people rolling a vampire they wont play just for a color, which will cause people to jack the price up on bites or whatever... "im here just for the achievement" then deleted lol...
they should have made dyecrafting a new profession. add some dye materials into provisioning nodes (crates/sacks/barrels) and a few plant base to pick in the world. Then put recipes in game...I actually love the provisioning recipe hunting...think it would work well
of course make some crazy colors boss drops or special quest rewards. materials and recipes ofc both coming from that content.
guess that would require legit work to make happen though...Edited by Cyberdown on August 2, 2014 2:41AM5 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭honestly achievement dyes was a really stupid idea...people will do stuff they don't want to do just for a stupid color...so now youll have people rolling a vampire they wont play just for a color, which will cause people to jack the price up on bites or whatever... "im here just for the achievement" then deleted lol...
they should have made dyecrafting a new profession. add some dye materials into provisioning nodes (crates/sacks/barrels) and a few plant base to pick in the world. Then put recipes in game...I actually love the provisioning recipe hunting...think it would work well
of course make some crazy colors boss drops or special quest rewards. materials and recipes ofc both coming from that content.
guess that would require legit work to make happen though...
The achievement-based dye system is awesome, actually... makes the achievements have a purpose other than just things that happen to occur while playing randomly. I especially like that it's an account-wide unlock. And if you think there was no work involved in making the dye system, I don't think you have any experience with software development whatsoever... Also there's nothing wrong with encouraging players to diversify their in-game activity, in fact it's actually a good business decision. Edited by Attorneyatlawl on August 2, 2014 2:46AM-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.5 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »m.stollb16_ESO wrote: »I like what I've seen of the dye system so far. I also think it makes sense that some colors are hard to get (among them some colors that are very "desirable"). Finally something to work on that not every other VR 12 will have. This MMORPG(!) needs more grinds like this or people will quit once they reach max level!frwinters_ESO wrote: »Of course they are going to make the popular colors linked to harder achievements. They want you to play the game, work for it and feel the accomplishment.
That sort of accomplishment should come from actually accomplishing something, not mindlessly grinding out PVP points. The reward should be something that makes your character unique, more powerful. Putting a COSMETIC item at the end of that carrot stick smacks of little more than punishment of the OCD gamer mindset, and trying to force more people to try something they hate in ANY MMO.
This is NOT the same as incentivizing the grind with meaningful rewards.
If they want to make certain colors hard to get that is fine, but don't force people to play a part of the game that disgusts them in ANY MMO because of the sort of people it attracts (PVP) in order to get it.
Make the same dye available through some difficult or long grindy achievement in PVE play as well. There should be two paths to achieve any dye, if this is to remain a "play how you want" game.
No purely cosmetic item, particularly a desirable one, should be made available exclusively through PVP grinding.
As mentioned above, imma guess you would be ok of this shade was awarded for some equally challenging PVE achievement. Would you then sympathize with the pvp guy that felt "forced" to grind PVE content?
Nobody is being forced to do anything unless they feel entitled to everything.
4 -
Cyberdown✭✭✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »honestly achievement dyes was a really stupid idea...people will do stuff they don't want to do just for a stupid color...so now youll have people rolling a vampire they wont play just for a color, which will cause people to jack the price up on bites or whatever... "im here just for the achievement" then deleted lol...
they should have made dyecrafting a new profession. add some dye materials into provisioning nodes (crates/sacks/barrels) and a few plant base to pick in the world. Then put recipes in game...I actually love the provisioning recipe hunting...think it would work well
of course make some crazy colors boss drops or special quest rewards. materials and recipes ofc both coming from that content.
guess that would require legit work to make happen though...
The achievement-based dye system is awesome, actually... makes the achievements have a purpose other than just things that happen to occur while playing randomly. I especially like that it's an account-wide unlock. And if you think there was no work involved in making the dye system, I don't think you have any experience with software development whatsoever... Also there's nothing wrong with encouraging players to diversify their in-game activity, in fact it's actually a good business decision.
The purpose for achievements should be...the achievement of doing them and nothing more...that's why they are called achievements....3 -
Archaole✭✭✭I personally am glad that achievements in this game are going to be more than number scores or titles seen in only my journal or achievement section. It does actually give me a reason to do stuff I might not otherwise have any interest in doing just to make my character(s) look cooler.
On a side note, I'm really looking forward to playing Monday night to see what combinations people come up with on their first try.2 -
Lionxoft✭✭✭✭✭
✭So is everyone going to ignore the guy's comment about Coldharbour Ash Black? Seriously folks, I hopped on PTS and grabbed the Thalmor black in about 20 minutes by finishing the heart of anumarril (I probably butchered that spelling) and saving Southpoint from Madness. There are PLENTY of nice shades of black available.
Edit:
Below is the Thalmor Black which is easily obtained.
Edited by Lionxoft on August 2, 2014 7:35PM3 -
The amount of whining and the assumption that you deserve anything is just sad. Is it that difficult to just be happy and show some appreciation for the fact that they added dyes to the game? Thank you dev's for making a good game even better. For everyone crying over which black is more black, and how they deserve to control the whole game because they pay a whopping $15 a month needs to have a reality check. You are not that important, so get over yourselves.Hasek
V13 Templar healer
Mawlbrung
46 Night Blade Vampy
Assassin Brotherhood, DC NA server0
