Coming changes too little too late?

jeevin · July 2014

The last couple of days I've talked with friends that left the game at various stages of play for various reasons to find out if the upcoming changes will sway them to coming back.
Out of the four friends with myself included(all huge Elder Scrolls fans) who started playing in beta. One never logged after launch and has no intentions of playing again. Another left after hitting 50 and has no intentions of coming back. The last friend left after grinding to VR12 and may come back when/if Dark Brotherhood gets released.
That leaves me with just over one week left on my sub. I've played most of the solo content available. I feel to get the most out of the upcoming changes I would really have to start again. But the game is so linear and themepark by design I can't really fathom going through all the same quests again.

Is anyone else feeling the same way? Are the changes too late to get the early leavers back? Are they enough to bring the game up to players, especially Elder Scrolls fans, expectations?

Ojustaboo · July 2014

No I don't feel like that.

I'm loving most of the game.

I think its simply a case that for your friends the game wasn't for them, they imagined it was going to be something else. And it's very unlikely such people will come back.

Titansteele · July 2014

I do not think the changes are coming too late at all. The game has not been out long and there is enough to keep my guild mates and myself happy.

It comes down to personal preference in the end.

Circuitica · July 2014

Better late than never.

I like the fact they don't give us all the great stuff right here right now.

CirithValaria · July 2014

Changes are never too late IMO, but are they enough for some? is a better question. And not all changes are good...

I find ESO to be ultimate package for TES fans who really really love the lore and the world. ESO has a pure and kind heart and strong soul. Skin and muscles will only be granted over time and maybe it even grows a beard one day.
Personally I think ESO has a great future and it will someday be
"THE STRONGEST THERE IS"

I think that many Skyrim fans has found it to be disappointing (quilty of their own unrealistic hopes I guess), while Elder Scrolls fans have found it to be great and full of potential. It has flaws alright, personally I find it almost as great as Morrowind, even better in some areas.

All comes down to the point where one must choose if they:
A ) stick with it and help it become better,
B ) wait and let someone else make it better (tho you may still not like it)
C ) forget it completely.

BTW. If Skyrim or any other TES game would be an MMORPG, it would have the same exact issues and even worse. Skyrim isn't balanced, but no one cares because you play it alone and there is nobody complaining how op you are.

TehMagnus · July 2014

Keep in mind the game is still in beta. When console comes out, it will be better & players will return to PC.

Sotha_Sil · July 2014

The changes coming cannot be qualified as "too little". There are really interesting plans and it will definetely bring depth into the ESO end game content.

However, I can agree on the "too late" thing. It is getting like ages for ZOS to implement changes in the game. ESO is a really slow MMO in terms of evolution right now. There has been one major update (craglorn) and it will be the only one in 6 months since the release.

Because other updates (update 2&3) are not bringing in content but only basic mmo features (really cool though). And it does not look new to me.

emeraldbay · July 2014

I like the game, I understand why they left, and I understand why you wouldn't want to start over. This game is great the first couple of times around, but like you said, it's very linear. There's not much true exploration, and those "Elder Scrolls moments" everyone loves are few and far between.

I found myself going back and playing Skyrim, and as soon as I started it up, I noticed the difference. The world of Skyrim always feels so big and open, but it makes you feel big too. In contrast, the world of ESO is big, but you're not, and that makes all the difference. Add that to the lack of level scaling (like Skyrim had in many places), and you get a less-than-Elder-Scrolls experience.

That said, I do like the game, and I'll stick around for a while to see what they come up with.

CapuchinSeven · July 2014

Ojustaboo wrote: »

I think its simply a case that for your friends the game wasn't for them, they imagined it was going to be something else.

Yeah maybe they wanted a game that, when you scratch the pretty surface, it's not a buggy mess.

Crisscross · July 2014

Speaking for myself, I really don't care about the content. Dark Brotherhood, Justice system, whathaveyou - I can't bring myself to care when I still can't play a heavy armor melee character in PVP without being gimped. I find the fundamentals of the game that are flawed, and so I can't even begin to enjoy the fluff even if I otherwise would.

In my case, the balancing changes are definitely what might be "too little, too late" for me. I'm just wondering why they didn't mind knee-jerk nerfing shield bash into the ground after a week of forum outcry, yet we have been screaming about heavy armor and stamina uselessness for months and the devs' stance is "We make class balance changes very slowly because they can have a big impact on your play experience."

rbenkepub19_ESO · July 2014

No, I don't think it's too little, too late. Though I'm looking forward to upcoming changes, I'm having fun with the game just as it is. I do agree that ESO is too linear, but I'm enjoying it in spite of that shortcoming.

cracker81 · July 2014

Crisscross wrote: »

Speaking for myself, I really don't care about the content. Dark Brotherhood, Justice system, whathaveyou - I can't bring myself to care when I still can't play a heavy armor melee character in PVP without being gimped. I find the fundamentals of the game that are flawed, and so I can't even begin to enjoy the fluff even if I otherwise would.

In my case, the balancing changes are definitely what might be "too little, too late" for me. I'm just wondering why they didn't mind knee-jerk nerfing shield bash into the ground after a week of forum outcry, yet we have been screaming about heavy armor and stamina uselessness for months and the devs' stance is "We make class balance changes very slowly because they can have a big impact on your play experience."

Wait I play hvy I am ok.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · July 2014

Im sort of in the middle. Lots of the changes really look neat. But they are several months away if not more i am guessing. So while i don't think it is to little, or to late, i am getting pretty bored where i am. So ill probably end up taking a break for a month or two. But who knows i dont really have a bunch of other options right now so i may just stick it out.

Knootewoot · July 2014

I also play PvP and i have fun. Been playing PvP since lvl 15. Yes, sometimes i don't feel like PvP'ing and i go play Wolfenstein or something. But i keep coming back for moah.

JD2013 · July 2014

How is it too little too late when the game has only been out since April? I mean come on.

Badh0rse · July 2014

Too late? The damn game has only been out 4 months! I think people have ridiculous expectations from mmo's. If a mmo can pull its *** together in the first 9 months to a year it's a frakkin miracle. The changes that are coming are going to improve this game ten fold and more people will sub that is a fact. How many people quit wow or swtor 10 times only to resub when a patch comes out that fixes stuff. Changes take time ... the part that should not take time is communication from the devs that changes are coming. I will not leave a game due to bugs but I will leave if I am just sitting with my thumb in my ass wondering what they are thinking. I almost left this game because of that but I held faith and in this last panel they did it was said that the changes I personally needed (dungeon viability) are coming. Taking them a while but I am more upset at having waited so long to hear that they were willing to change it .. silence make us, the consumer, assume they don't give a rats ass. To sum it up: if mmos were either make it or break it in the first 6 months we would have NO mmo ever...... eevvvvveer.

Sangeet · July 2014

I dont see class balancing incoming, so for me it gets kind a late to fix things.

Hypertionb14_ESO · July 2014

The last mmo i played, i used to look up what was on release and what was added..i

if i was to compaire the release content in that game to this ones... they are actually about the same...

however, after 4 expansions, i felt like there was never enough time to do everything that game had to offer... so give it time.. maybe right now its not for you, but for sure with time...

Csub · July 2014

Nope. It might be late for some people, but honestly, if someone quits a game before release (not even quitting since they haven't really played, they were allegedly testing), I do not think that with a little bit of extra content they would have stayed or at least not much longer anyway.

Badh0rse · July 2014

Sangeet wrote: »

I dont see class balancing incoming, so for me it gets kind a late to fix things.

Not to be an ass but name one, just one, mmo that has balanced classes.

pantaro30 · July 2014

As far as I'm concerned with mmo's and the way they are developed and as long as they continue to be supported it's never too late.

Really don't understand the players that rage quit games than troll forums about them like mmo's are are supposed to be perfect out the gate.

It's a marathon not a sprint!

For me personally the way the company does business and treats the players and manages the game holds as much value when it comes to my dollar as does the actually game and what it has to offer but thats just me.

kewl · July 2014

jeevin wrote: »

That leaves me with just over one week left on my sub. I've played most of the solo content available. I feel to get the most out of the upcoming changes I would really have to start again. But the game is so linear and themepark by design I can't really fathom going through all the same quests again.

If you haven't tried PvP yet you should, it's thrilling.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · July 2014

Badh0rse wrote: »

To sum it up: if mmos were either make it or break it in the first 6 months we would have NO mmo ever...... eevvvvveer.

It broke Warhammer, the game just lingered near death for a few more years.

pantaro30 · July 2014

Badh0rse wrote: »

Too late? The damn game has only been out 4 months! I think people have ridiculous expectations from mmo's. If a mmo can pull its *** together in the first 9 months to a year it's a frakkin miracle. The changes that are coming are going to improve this game ten fold and more people will sub that is a fact. How many people quit wow or swtor 10 times only to resub when a patch comes out that fixes stuff. Changes take time ... the part that should not take time is communication from the devs that changes are coming. I will not leave a game due to bugs but I will leave if I am just sitting with my thumb in my ass wondering what they are thinking. I almost left this game because of that but I held faith and in this last panel they did it was said that the changes I personally needed (dungeon viability) are coming. Taking them a while but I am more upset at having waited so long to hear that they were willing to change it .. silence make us, the consumer, assume they don't give a rats ass. To sum it up: if mmos were either make it or break it in the first 6 months we would have NO mmo ever...... eevvvvveer.

Totally agree! I have tons of friends who i love them dearly,but they are mmo hoppers.they play every new mmo and 1-3 months bounce than talk trash.

So when they have lil debates on their impressions,i laugh and say ok thx for sharing.than they all run back to WoW.

As for the lack of communication with Devs agree there as well.Good example swtor vs eso for me.In swtor i always question my sub cause everything with bioware is like this huge secret til last minute so players never have nothing to look forward to until its almost time to drop new content.

I left eso before after learning about VR content after seeing the future of eso panel i thought damn this is what im talking about.yea the game has lots of issues,they are willing to admit that.they are willing to share with us what they wanna do to fix it and also here is what new content you have to look forward to.

Now that kinda real talk convinces me that they realize they are asking us to sign up for a service and that service will give you such and such for that I'm willing to take a chance and even sub for 6 months.

kieso · July 2014

Don't know if my guildmates will come back or not with the changes, some expressed interest in the PVP exp and VET grind changes tho; the VET grind being why they quit. Worse case I have a whole guild bank to myself, hah!

PrinceBoru · July 2014

If you are unsure if you should re-up then you've answered your own question.

Welka · July 2014

Do your guilmates only play for XP and loot farming? Kinda sad really...

Surragard · July 2014

The game has only been out a few months. I don't understand how it can be too late for an MMO. With that said if someone has played the game a decent amount (as it sounds like the OP's friends obviously have) and have decided they don't like it, then I doubt they will come back. We're going to see new content and tweaks to the mechanics coming out but if you don't like the game then new content won't help.

ArRashid · July 2014

What game was perfect on launch day?

In the last century at least?

NONE. They want people to pay for things they are still developing, relying on patches and DLCs and all other bullcrap.

Not even single player (well, mostly) games are in a good state when they are launched.
Let's demonstrate on Heroes of Might and Magic VI:
- by the time it launched, half of the game was blocked thanks to "genius" DRM restrictions since you had to be online to play offline... quite great, huh?
- Ubisoft servers were constantly falling down, resulting in failed activations, HUGE times (entire weekends or even weeks) when the servers were down completely and therefore half the game was blocked
-.......
- now, even AFTER THE SUPPORT HAS ENDED (because they're working on Heroes 7 already) - which means no more patches for heroes 6, the game remains buggy. In battles, you can experience a black screen, otherwise your mouse cursor is flickering to the point of making you go nuts (I bought a new mouse before finding out it's the damn bug of the game itself that hasn't been fixed since the release in 2011!!!

And right now I'm wondering how long I'll be able to play that game before it tells me it can no longer connect and block the half of the game I was buying it for in the first place

So far so good, I didn't like most of ZOS' decisions in the past (AoE target cap, huge nerfs etc), but I think dying will help a lot and the number of bugs per patch is getting lower as well, so I believe they are learning from their mistakes... give it a year or two, keep your mind open and this might even rival WoW.. or at least TERA in popularity.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Inappropriate Content]

Fleymark · July 2014

No, I don't think so...I'm kind of a gaming masochist of sorts...If there is something I like about a game I'll put up with a lot and see it out over the long term. Even tho I will complain a lot. And even if I take a break I usually come back. Unlike most modern gamers, apparently, I have an attention span. Ultimately, MMOs are about what happens in the long haul, assuming they don't have such a bad release that they sink their own ship before the voyage even really starts, so to speak.

If anything, the problems that persist in this game aren't a lack of features but a lack of balance and that is a major problem. I, for the life of me, have no idea why this isn't a higher priority. It's the very essence of a game. I suspect that they are probably waiting for the new guild lines to substantially address it.

The OP touches on something that occured to me the other day. I've mentioned socially to people I know that I've been playing ESO. This game has an absolute dog doodoo reputation amongst people who've never played, in my experience. No bueno.

Badh0rse · July 2014

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Badh0rse wrote: »

To sum it up: if mmos were either make it or break it in the first 6 months we would have NO mmo ever...... eevvvvveer.

It broke Warhammer, the game just lingered near death for a few more years.

The first six months didn't kill warhammer ... trust me. First of all I worked on the Warhammer contract (not a dev) and had lots of inside info and that game was doomed from the start. I am not going to get into all the ugly but what killed the game was that after months of not doing well they released content that sucked even more! It wasn't the starting months that killed it ... it is what they considered the fix to those months. If the content had been a great improvement the game would not have died .....
I also think the devs learned a valuable lesson about listening to your community with that project. Anyway, the game did not die in the first 6 months ... it took time. Time that could have been used to get people back into the game ... death came later. I stand by my statement.

edit:

Fleymark wrote: »

The OP touches on something that occured to me the other day. I've mentioned socially to people I know that I've been playing ESO. This game has an absolute dog doodoo reputation amongst people who've never played, in my experience. No bueno.

This part of what you said is what is hurting the game the most right now imo. People love to suck up hype/drama and run with it. Fortunately/unfortunately all it takes is a celebrity or two to tell people it's cool and BANG the crazy train reverses directions! I think this game will be a win in the long run as long as they continue to be objective, know when to listen to their player base .. and know when not to. Eventually a gaming "celebrity" will take notice, do a hype chant and the tide will turn.