Coming changes too little too late?

Cyberdown

Funny, skyrim was much buggier for me than this game has been.


Anyway, its a mmorpg. People in mmorpg world are lost souls sometimes. Continually looking for that first high they got way back when playing their first mmorpg...and quickly grow weary of any mmorpg they try over the smallest reasons...when that feeling of their first mmorpg isn't met.

Also I still vividly remember the outrage the TES community had over skyrim being so dumbed down...will happen with every game that isn't marrowind with this crowd, you always will have hardcore purists (who are stupid for thinking a mmorpg could offer gameplay like a single player game)

As with every mmorpg...tons of stuff needs to be done, and little happens on a long time scale...which is why it took some games nearly a decade to get the level of polish they have now.

THis game wont offer me a decade of gameplay, no chance, but im enjoying my time in game, ive already gotten my monies worth, if tomorrow I move on ill have fond memories...and perhaps return if more content is added.

For now I have lots to do before I think ill move on.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

So many people in this thread with poor reading comprehension skills!

The OP isn't asking if it's 'too late to save the game' he's asking if it's too late for those that have left to come back .. and I think it probably is for many/most of them.

Square Enix salvaged FFXIV V1 which had an arguably worse rep. than ESO but they did it by entirely re-developing the game .. V2 bears little similarity to V1 .. and ZOS aren't remotely talking that level of re-engineering.

Fleymark

Badh0rse wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Badh0rse wrote: »

To sum it up: if mmos were either make it or break it in the first 6 months we would have NO mmo ever...... eevvvvveer.

It broke Warhammer, the game just lingered near death for a few more years.

The first six months didn't kill warhammer ... trust me. First of all I worked on the Warhammer contract (not a dev) and had lots of inside info and that game was doomed from the start. I am not going to get into all the ugly but what killed the game was that after months of not doing well they released content that sucked even more! It wasn't the starting months that killed it ... it is what they considered the fix to those months. If the content had been a great improvement the game would not have died .....
I also think the devs learned a valuable lesson about listening to your community with that project. Anyway, the game did not die in the first 6 months ... it took time. Time that could have been used to get people back into the game ... death came later. I stand by my statement.

That's the thing. Mythic had a track record with that and DAoC of designing fantastic games then kicking them in the knees with really bad key design decisions later that severely impacted the long term health of the games. Like crazy stupid things that had you scratching your head wondering what somebody smoked when they came up with them.

Guess who's in charge here?

Things like the inventory system and limiting markets to guilds just completely smack of that so much you can almost smell it if you were there.

reggielee

could be, but if you keep pestering them to come back and they hear more good reviews then they might just give it another try. in the meantime, the update will hopefully retain more new and existing players

Pallmor

Am I the only one who doesn't play an MMO like some sort of racecar driver trying to get to the finish line as fast as possible? I've been playing since April and am still not even at Vet rank. Yet I see these gameplay videos online of players just running through the game like coked-up madmen, skipping every bit of dialogue and just going from fight to fight at breakneck speed, desperately trying to get XP as fast as possible, as if Vet12 is their one and only objective in the game.

So yeah, I guess if you played like that, the game would get boring at the end. But then again, if you played like that, it would be pretty boring at the beginning and middle too.

I'm sure there must be others like me though--who actually take the time to follow the story, follow the sidequests, listen to the dialogue, explore for exploration's sake, craft and trade, etc. And I'm certainly not bored yet.

Hell, sometimes I'll just sit around around dolmens and world bosses watching the fights.

pantaro30

Pallmor wrote: »

Am I the only one who doesn't play an MMO like some sort of racecar driver trying to get to the finish line as fast as possible? I've been playing since April and am still not even at Vet rank. Yet I see these gameplay videos online of players just running through the game like coked-up madmen, skipping every bit of dialogue and just going from fight to fight at breakneck speed, desperately trying to get XP as fast as possible, as if Vet12 is their one and only objective in the game.

So yeah, I guess if you played like that, the game would get boring at the end. But then again, if you played like that, it would be pretty boring at the beginning and middle too.

I'm sure there must be others like me though--who actually take the time to follow the story, follow the sidequests, listen to the dialogue, explore for exploration's sake, craft and trade, etc. And I'm certainly not bored yet.

until the champion system is live i absolutely refuse to even go anywhere near level 50 or even 40 for that matter so no you are not alone lol

The beauty of this game is i'm actually not bored at all bouncing around on my alts all level 10 and under

Fleymark

Pallmor wrote: »

Am I the only one who doesn't play an MMO like some sort of racecar driver trying to get to the finish line as fast as possible? I've been playing since April and am still not even at Vet rank. Yet I see these gameplay videos online of players just running through the game like coked-up madmen, skipping every bit of dialogue and just going from fight to fight at breakneck speed, desperately trying to get XP as fast as possible, as if Vet12 is their one and only objective in the game.

So yeah, I guess if you played like that, the game would get boring at the end. But then again, if you played like that, it would be pretty boring at the beginning and middle too.

I'm sure there must be others like me though--who actually take the time to follow the story, follow the sidequests, listen to the dialogue, explore for exploration's sake, craft and trade, etc. And I'm certainly not bored yet.

Game's super easy and has been out for 4 months. If you've played since release you either waste a lot of time, are slow, or don't play much if you aren't at least close to vet ranks by now. Which is fine, but there's no rushing about it, at this point.

I was V1 with every map 100% complete in 3 weeks with 4 crafts to level. Not because I rushed, but had lots of time to play and was really into seeing what was next. After that I've averaged a vet rank every 2 and a half weeks and probably wouldn't have done that if I didn't want the points for crafting. Now that I've got those done I'm v5 and not finding another realm worth of quests and craglorn enough of an inspiration to press on, particularly because I'm a stamina build. If they aren't making a priority of balancing my build then why should I make a priority of playing the smattering of content that's left? Alts have been fun and I'm on to tackle the other crafts, repetitiveness notwithstanding. Love my main, but it's just gotten dull.

The questing is great, but it gets really dull and repetitive at a point, despite being great quests. I don't speak for everybody but story isn't everything. A lot of us want to build a character to DO things with it...Namely kill mobs of consequence, with others, for rewards that can't be gotten otherwise and are worth going after. Nothing against the questing but bigger fish to fry and all that...You leave that out and people are going to lose interest fast and in large numbers.

Phantax

Well I'm a self confessed alt-a-holic and that for me is a problem. I'm already dismayed with the whole VR questing thing.
I can honestly say I won't be making/levelling an alts in ESO unless something changes. If It doesn't then I can probably see myself leaving ESO, having already experienced all the story quests from each faction, why would I want to re-run them another 2 or 3 times ?

All the new/announced content sounds great and maybe that will be enough to myself and a solo character going... we'll have to wait and see !

Fleymark

Phantax wrote: »

Well I'm a self confessed alt-a-holic and that for me is a problem. I'm already dismayed with the whole VR questing thing.
I can honestly say I won't be making/levelling an alts in ESO unless something changes. If It doesn't then I can probably see myself leaving ESO, having already experienced all the story quests from each faction, why would I want to re-run them another 2 or 3 times ?

All the new/announced content sounds great and maybe that will be enough to myself and a solo character going... we'll have to wait and see !

I am too and they really borked replayability in this game by making it so linear.

Hopefully when expansions eventually come out it opens things up. Eq2 was in rails like this too, but after an expansion or two you had choices that made it more interesting for alts.

When they announced this game would be on mega servers I really hoped that the game would be massive and every race and class would have it's own story, unique starting area, etc. But alas, we got the opposite.

Azzuria

Personally, I am loving the game.

Not spending every waking hour rushing to end-game through exploits or grinding. Finding every nook and cranny in every zone, doing every quest I available, talking to every NPC. Some times I'll just go on walkabout, sightseeing and harvesting mats. Have 3 'main' toons, one in each faction. Highest just got to Coldharbour, another is close to there and a third who's only 26 but I'm leveling her slowly on purpose... she's an enchanter and that's just whole other, painful story.

There is tons to do and I, for one, am savoring and enjoying every minute of it.

Hoamaii

It's a catch 22 in my opinion. Changes are needed for sure, some even seem little, but after a while the "little + little + little" may force you to trash a character you've been grinding up to VR levels because too many rules have changed.

Every month I ponder whether I'll be unsubbing or not. Obviously, I'm still here so far. But I built up 2 characters, one is VR, the other is getting close to lvl 50. I already hated being forced to reroll quests I'd already done by the "Cadwell money" quests with one char, I'll resent it even more with the second one, it feels too much like being forced into replay.
Starting a new game is something we do all the time in TES games, but we do it because we choose to and when we choose to, not because or when the game tells us to do so.

All my friends have unsubbed too, many put off by the Cadwell quest too. I'm not sure that if I unsub I'll feel like coming back, knowing I would, again, have to start a whole new game because various patches will have completely reset the rules and gameplay. I might have if the game had not already forced me into replay. But it did, and that sort of ruined the fun of it for me. Too bad, really, because that game could truly be great.

And I completely disagree with people arguing the game is still "new" or "young". Because other mmorpg never got it right at launch day does not make it a rule that MMO should remain in Beta at the players (payers) expenses for a year!.. Beta is the time to make adjustments and changes. ESO has been out of Beta for months, they SHOULD have gotten it right during the Beta phase, not after.

What would you say if your car dealer tried to sell you a brand new car, arguing that "it's still in Beta, there are missing sits and commands and engine parts, but in a year or so you'll have a completely different car"?

DuelWieldingCheesyPoofs

Personally ice decided not to listen to other negative comments cos they do sway opinions and i like to make up my own mind, that said there is too much hate for a few month old game that is fantastic, when i get fed up Il take a break and come back with much love, in happy to wait and looking forward to spell crafting, in even coming around to the pvp

moxiesauce

jeevin wrote: »

The last couple of days I've talked with friends that left the game at various stages of play for various reasons to find out if the upcoming changes will sway them to coming back.
Out of the four friends with myself included(all huge Elder Scrolls fans) who started playing in beta. One never logged after launch and has no intentions of playing again. Another left after hitting 50 and has no intentions of coming back. The last friend left after grinding to VR12 and may come back when/if Dark Brotherhood gets released.
That leaves me with just over one week left on my sub. I've played most of the solo content available. I feel to get the most out of the upcoming changes I would really have to start again. But the game is so linear and themepark by design I can't really fathom going through all the same quests again.

Is anyone else feeling the same way? Are the changes too late to get the early leavers back? Are they enough to bring the game up to players, especially Elder Scrolls fans, expectations?

I feel that way, I've done just about everything in this game, update 3 will give me some more to do, other than that I'm stuck with just leveling an alt

moxiesauce

Fleymark wrote: »

If anything, the problems that persist in this game aren't a lack of features but a lack of balance and that is a major problem. I, for the life of me, have no idea why this isn't a higher priority. It's the very essence of a game. I suspect that they are probably waiting for the new guild lines to substantially address it.

I think all the changes to gear in update 3 is the push in the right direction for balance. From there they will tweak ability dmg, stat caps etc.. following what they said as they will add small increments of changes until the game balances out.

Fleymark

apostate9 wrote: »

jeevin wrote: »

The last couple of days I've talked with friends that left the game at various stages of play for various reasons to find out if the upcoming changes will sway them to coming back.
Out of the four friends with myself included(all huge Elder Scrolls fans) who started playing in beta. One never logged after launch and has no intentions of playing again. Another left after hitting 50 and has no intentions of coming back. The last friend left after grinding to VR12 and may come back when/if Dark Brotherhood gets released.
That leaves me with just over one week left on my sub. I've played most of the solo content available. I feel to get the most out of the upcoming changes I would really have to start again. But the game is so linear and themepark by design I can't really fathom going through all the same quests again.

Is anyone else feeling the same way? Are the changes too late to get the early leavers back? Are they enough to bring the game up to players, especially Elder Scrolls fans, expectations?

No. So just quit the game and stop trolling the vendor's forums, seriously. Do us all a solid... because your pollution is making it hard to breathe in here, much less have a real conversation about the game.

ANYONE WHO THINKS THE GAME IS DOOMED...just go. For. The. Love. Of. God. Please.

This is a real conversation about the game.

Fanbois may not see the problems but that doesn't mean there aren't significant problems. I enjoy the game, myself, but that doesn't change that fact.

Feel free to not read any discussions that you prefer not to.

Fleymark

moxiesauce wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

If anything, the problems that persist in this game aren't a lack of features but a lack of balance and that is a major problem. I, for the life of me, have no idea why this isn't a higher priority. It's the very essence of a game. I suspect that they are probably waiting for the new guild lines to substantially address it.

I think all the changes to gear in update 3 is the push in the right direction for balance. From there they will tweak ability dmg, stat caps etc.. following what they said as they will add small increments of changes until the game balances out.

We are 4 months in. When half the classes and at least half the builds, by default, are disqualified from the only substantial endgame content that does exist, 4 months in, they need to be doing substantially more than tweaking.

Everyone who plays this game pays monthly.

NorthernFury

Badh0rse wrote: »

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Badh0rse wrote: »

To sum it up: if mmos were either make it or break it in the first 6 months we would have NO mmo ever...... eevvvvveer.

It broke Warhammer, the game just lingered near death for a few more years.

The first six months didn't kill warhammer ... trust me. First of all I worked on the Warhammer contract (not a dev) and had lots of inside info and that game was doomed from the start. I am not going to get into all the ugly but what killed the game was that after months of not doing well they released content that sucked even more! It wasn't the starting months that killed it ... it is what they considered the fix to those months. If the content had been a great improvement the game would not have died .....
I also think the devs learned a valuable lesson about listening to your community with that project. Anyway, the game did not die in the first 6 months ... it took time. Time that could have been used to get people back into the game ... death came later. I stand by my statement.

This reminds me of a similar experience I had at SOE with Planetside.....that game had SO MUCH potential, and it got borked by the development team before it was even released.

It was certainly a blast to play internally before there was even an Alpha; all the guys would stay after work and frag each other with small teams....ahhh, the good old days!

groh

Too little too late ? I dont know.

All i can say is that i like very much the Elder Scrolls background, lore, the Fr localisation in TESO, build possibilities as the PVP in Cyrodill. I have been very excited by this game !

But, sorry for all the toxic blind fanbois, that game is a BETA !!! Oh yes its only a 4 months game and MMO's deserve a long developpement after release, blabla...Not my taste ZOS !!! I want a playable product at release !!! Sure its not a car, its only game industry, but where can you see other examples of so " non finished product at release " in others industries ??? Things have to change here, for all games companies : a quality label at release would be a good start !
Now we can see ZOS team is working, but come on, that work had to be done 6 months ago ! Financial plans ruined your game ? Time is money, but good work is money too....

Bugged quests, broken PVP ( imbalancements, bugs..), deadly lag, bad ZOS team choices....the list is so long...Even for a release ! Yes, the majority of the players can endure some inconveniences after a release but not too much !

Will the gone players be back in a few months after majors changes ? Not sure cause they had their experience ruined in a way or in an other, and they remind it...
The case described by the OP is not rare, it happened in every guilds/teso player communities, and for many and different reasons ! I know a lot of casual and hardcore players that have been upset by all the bugs, broken things; they wont come back even if they liked very much some TESO features, unfortunatly destroyed too much...

I keep an eye on TESO and i hope for by changes.

PS : Oh last thing, for all the " stop trolling forums, if you dont like that game : unsub and go away quietly..." No hope for you lil fanbois, imo bad publicity helps more things to change than blind pubescent love...

ThePonzzz

LOL @ too late. Game is approaching 4 months old since launch. Give this schtick a rest already.

Azzuria

NorthernFury wrote: »

This reminds me of a similar experience I had at SOE

Stop right there. SOE say it tall. Any game I see coming down the pike with even a whiff of SOE even near it, I run the other way screaming. They've bugger-humped so many games it should be illegal for them to even THINK about MMOs. EVAR!

Welka

I'd like add my 2 cents. I'm glad for cadwell's silver and gold. I'm happy to see the other sides of the quests, experience the other factions. It would have been disappointing if I had to create 2 new toons to see and experience the other factions.

I started off with a red guard in the daggerfall covenant and despite I liked questing there, now that I'm V4 and experiencing the Dominion, I prefer the zones there. The landscape is beautiful and I can't wait to see the third faction.

Now on the other hand, I don't know if I can go through all factions again with other toons. Thankfully ESO gives us other way to level up a toon. So I can't see the problem with content at the moment, especially that in only 6 months, we're getting 2 important content additions. Between new content and patches, we cannot say ZOS got the game out and just waited for the money to roll in. People nowadays are so impatient and so wrongly demanding.

On a final note, I can easily imagine ZOS giving us the whole of Tamriel in the coming years. And 10 years from now, giving us another continent from Nirn. That's just me being probably too optimistic

Evergnar

Never say never. I'm still waiting until the time is right to talk those I started with into coming back. That won't happen until the linear system is put to rest and things seem more stable. I still have hope though and seem to find ways to enjoy myself until those changes are implemented.

Nox_Aeterna

After i leave a MMO , i hardly come back to it, so if i leave ESO , they would need an AWESOME expansion AND those changes for me to even consider a second try.

Still , since the first day most players knew what we were actually doing here , beta testing for the consoles :P.

Im used to joining games before they are released so i dont mind much , only thing that got me really annoyed is the new policy of making content only for new players.

If they do that again for the console then dont matter how good the game they try to create , i dont have much interest in it.

spammichtotb16_ESO

The upcoming changes are still very minor and many involve systems that should have been implemented at release. Such as a global style auction house, faction wide if it has to be. The announced guild store change sounds like a crutch. A weekly, blind auction? Oh well, we'll see how all this works out.

Inventory and banks are still in shambles and no hope for improvement. Does no one at ZOS play crafters?

Even though I do not care about PvP and "balance", obviously there are those who do and there is not much coming their way.

What we get is a rework of Provisioning? What? Why? Making food and drink stack and a few more recipe drops is all that is required for now.

So no, I cannot see these changes actually drawing players back. Wish I could, the game needs them.

khele23eb17_ESO

Badh0rse wrote: »

Sangeet wrote: »

I dont see class balancing incoming, so for me it gets kind a late to fix things.

Not to be an ass but name one, just one, mmo that has balanced classes.

Name one MMO where for every single class the same type of build is the best... for months.

WhitePawPrints

Honestly, it would seem that most Elder Scrolls fans have already left. This thread is a little too late.

The game is incredibly linear which is the exact opposite of what the previous titles were trying to achieve. Elder Scrolls was a progressing title, with each title improving upon the previous title in their game design and freedom of gameplay. Zenimax took freedom and forced it on a linear trail, and did not care about viable options by having Alchemy and Provision equally linear.

The linear professions and customizable options would be forgivable because those are relatively easy to add in a game. The glaring bugs and phasing issues had worn down the patience of the Elder Scrolls fans mostly because they have been in since Beta!

Now that they are adding these customizable options with the dyes and a third tier leveling system, it is too late because those cannot compensate for the phasing issues. We want to play with friends but Zenimax doesn't want to acknowledge that people have different schedules: We progress at different rates! It's annoying when questing with a friend to have them disappear in an entire region of a zone.

Craglorn should have never been released. They should have done this patch first, and that may have kept Elder Scrolls fans satisfied for a little bit longer while Zenimax focused on the glaring issues. Since Zenimax hardly acknowledges that phasing is a big concern among anyone that wants to play with a few friends, and not PUG groups, most of us will stay away.

Nothing is stationary. I look at the direction of an event. In this case, this game's direction has been nothing but disappointment.

Istyar

If your friends are playing something else, give it a try too.
When a game becomes a burden, stop playing it and try something else.

ebondeath

I was really, really hoping you were going to go all JoJo lyrics on us. I am disappointed.

Game's still fun, so I'm still here. That's the only condition that my subscription is dependent upon.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

CirithValaria wrote: »

Changes are never too late IMO, but are they enough for some? is a better question. And not all changes are good...

I find ESO to be ultimate package for TES fans who really really love the lore and the world. ESO has a pure and kind heart and strong soul. Skin and muscles will only be granted over time and maybe it even grows a beard one day.
Personally I think ESO has a great future and it will someday be
"THE STRONGEST THERE IS"

I think that many Skyrim fans has found it to be disappointing (quilty of their own unrealistic hopes I guess), while Elder Scrolls fans have found it to be great and full of potential. It has flaws alright, personally I find it almost as great as Morrowind, even better in some areas.

All comes down to the point where one must choose if they:
A ) stick with it and help it become better,
B ) wait and let someone else make it better (tho you may still not like it)
C ) forget it completely.

BTW. If Skyrim or any other TES game would be an MMORPG, it would have the same exact issues and even worse. Skyrim isn't balanced, but no one cares because you play it alone and there is nobody complaining how op you are.

well said.

Though nothing is better than Morrowind, NOTHING.

One day little ESO will grow up and grow a beard as glorious as Sai Sahan's...

PS @ArRashid Monopoly was perfect at launch. Check and mate.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

People who quite the game, really any mmo, within the 1st 6 months, aren't quiting because of "too little, too late." They're quiting because the game wasn't the style of game they wanted to play in the first place. And no amount of updates or add-ons is going to change their mind.