blatant AD and DC collusion on Wabba

sbanned_530978 · July 2014

@Dleatherus

I dont know why you keep changing my words.
"anti emperor stuff" to"anti alacrity thing"
"stop trashing others ideas when its working on the most populated campaign." to "Trashing your guild"
Your miss reading alot of what Im typing or changing it for some other reason.

It DOESNT MATTER what you think the facts are. The fact is it could be working right now. Noone has held emperor of waba for 3 days let alone 5 but me since reset. Doesnt matter how many fail emperor farmers try to get together. They wont hold it on a fully populated server unless they get alot better somehow.

"it's not a stretch"
It is a stretch to compare; the emperor farmers abdicating once they get emperor even "as little as an hour" and not being required to defend. To trying to hold it for 5 days. It solves the main issue of abdicating every hour and creates incentive to hold emperor which is what cyrodiil needs.

And think about it abit more D, No large guild is going to wait 9 days for one player to receive a 1-5% buff (3days AD, 3days DC, 3 days EP) then back to AD again. Let alone if they had to hold 5 days on a fully populated server 15 day cycle swapping. You forget I love dethrowning emperors.

Good luck to the farmers trying to control 100s of AD and DC pugs + me from dethrowning EP on day 4, 23 hours lol

So some emperor farmer just waited 15 days and just missed their chance? The holding emperor for 3-5 days idea would only make cyrodiil be played how its supposed to be, defend emperor and your keeps. Who cares If emperor farmers are trying to defend for 5 days atleast they are playing while not giving up after an hour and as long as the 4 campaigns arent dead it will give the other 2 factions alot of fun trying to dethrone.

Emp once a campaign. Once over a 5 day period? Ex: You get emp day 4 and the campaign resets then lose it and get it again the next day?, (1st thing I thought of immediately + many other issues could come out of it). I dont think this once an emperor thing has a place anywhere. Tricky to explain to players and extra dev time just so that more players get emp.

Tintinabula · July 2014

It's blatant.
It's collusion.
It's blatant collusion!

demonlkojipub19_ESO · July 2014

Uh oh, DC and EP are colluding on AD now!

WarrioroftheWind_ESO · July 2014

Lol that's not collusion. Collusion is trying to defend inner ring alone in the wee hours of the morning, then seeing a vet 12 sneaking around, you hoping said vet would step in and help out, they don't, then when opposing fac breaches the keep not only does the player not do anything, but a enemy player moves practically within spitting distance and doesn't attack, or vice versa. I know personally when I accidentally snuck up on some enemies I didn't notice them until I was practically on top of them, and they killed me fast. The enemy player in the keep didn't even move when I shot at him, giving me the impression that he and the vet player from my fac were chatting.

Sometimes facs just derp. I remember back in first camp session DC always seemed like the one to go full derp mode. AD was sort of the arch nemesis, and instead of pushing inner ring, they'd go after OUR keeps near home base.

It took practically impending doom and a lot of arm twisting to get the fac leaders on the same ISLAND as each other against Molag Bal. Facs in Cyro shouldn't be playing tea party with their stuffed animals.

demonlkojipub19_ESO · July 2014

Oh. In that case AD and DC do that all the time. Like those magical times where DC happens to show up and "coincidently" help cut off EP reinforcements between sej and allessia when EP is assaulting allesia? The COULD be sieging Roebec since it is also under AD control, but no... They run passed all that and bother EP. similar cases here and there.

Dleatherus · July 2014

@krayiss‌

apologies in advance for the lengthy response

you were the one that brought Alacrity and their idea into the conversation, not me, and then asked me to stop trashing other people's ideas - since nobody else's idea was mentioned in that post by you, the connection was made and i wanted to set the record straight

also it seems some of my words have accidentally been twisted by you so let me straighten that up

i have NEVER been 'anti emperor' - i fully support the idea of the struggle in cyrodiil being a fight of epic proportions to gain control of the the crown - our proposal to the devs actually included several things to 'sweeten the pot' for those that attain the crown

i am totally against the emperor farming/trading between the factions in a selfish, systematic and collusive manner that is depopulating campaigns and totally for the throne exchanging hands due to hard fought, engaging, fun and meaningful PvP that strengthens campaigns

PvP in wabba is working more or less as it should mainly because the emperor farmers want to get the title in the fastest and easiest way for as many members in on the scheme as possible - and for now that isn't in wabba

this means pouring into celarus when it reset the first time and second time and destroying the small but healthy PvP population there, and then doing the same with a large majority of the 90-day campaigns when they reset - these forums have many threads confirming this occurred - so it's a fact, and not what i think

it's also a fact that these farmers care nothing about the what their actions do to the game, and to the player base

when the campaigns shrink down to 3-5 total in number - expect to see pre-made twinked 'baby toons' by these guilds ready to invade the non-vet campaign, and completely ruin the pvp experience for those trying it out for the first time, and ruin the campaign itself - because they will be able to face roll newcomers to pvp and keep tossing the crown around amongst themselves every few hours
the non-vet campaign is supposed to encourage people to try out pvp, not feel overwhelmed by being level 15 and crushed by a VR12 in an insta kill - it's to help populate cyrodiil campaigns and make PvP healthier and stronger - the opposite will happen if the system remains as it is now

extend the stipulation for former emperor buffs/titles to 3 days and this cartel of guilds will just adapt to the new criteria - i believe it is naive to think otherwise

that it will be more difficult for them, i agree - but it being more difficult doesn't deter the negative effect it has on the rest on the general player population

personally i don't care if when people cheat, exploit, play outside the spirit of the game etc it only effects them - givesthem their titles and buffs and whatever - it's all good

i DO care when a selfish minority is contributing in a deliberate manner to depopulate cyrodiil

two main factors are depopulating cyrodiil - the FPS issue and emperor farming

FPS has gotten better, and as a result i have seen a slight increase in PvP population - emperor farming still needs to be addressed

D.

Pixysticks · July 2014

Or AD pugs refuse to push west and instinctively run east to fight on Sej bridge.

But a collusion between thousands of pugs to team up against the person in second place makes a lot more sense, lol.

sbanned_530978 · July 2014

Dleatherus wrote: »

@krayiss‌

PvP in wabba is working more or less as it should mainly because the emperor farmers want to get the title in the fastest and easiest way for as many members in on the scheme as possible - and for now that isn't in wabba

D.

No no no no no lol
Its not working in Waba because an emp farming guild of even 100-200 wouldnt be able to defend against 500 AD + DC pugs for 5 days.
Your crazy to think otherwise. They arent that good of players lol

Its different to go to a dead camapaign and cap everything against nobody and its another thing to defend against 100s of zergs for 5 days. Your blind if you cant make that connection, very very simple.

They would have to get 300 people from AD and 300 people from DC to sit afk in waba to lock the server for 5 days to defend successfully.

Theyd have to defend 5 nights in a row on Waba pops come on D its plainly obvious it would work.

Dleatherus · July 2014

@krayiss‌

I 100% agree with you that it's very different to go and emperor farm in an underpopulated campaign vs. a nice full and active campaign such as Wabba

since the farmers are trying to flip the throne as many times as possible in as short a time as possible the 'weak' campaigns are currently the ones being targeted

I have also seen these farmers sit in a campaign not for just 5 days, but for a couple of weeks on end, employing exploits such as the siege weapon max limit, and the DK chain pulling - however I again agree with you that in a fully populated campaign it would be much more difficult to attain and coordinate

i don't think we should underestimate the lengths that some folks will go to, and the number of sheep willing to jump on the gravy train (if you added up the total number of folks that have/are participating in this over the last month or so, you will easily have your hundreds)

I'll go as far as to say that unless something changes in the 'former emperor' buffs/titles and/or the mechanics in how 'former emperor' is awarded, when the new non-vet campaign comes out, it will become the new emperor farm

hopefully between us all we can figure out a solution that rewards the individual without punishing the player base, and that it can be implemented

D.

sbanned_530978 · July 2014

@Dleatherus‌
This solution solves your main problems of abdicating immediately and "flipping it in as short a time as possible" every hour

They can try for not just 5 days but for the rest of the game D, they wont farm it on full pop servers.
The banning of oils exploiters is on the devs and thus not a valid argument of why the solution wont work.

Noone is "underestimating the length of time folks will go to" they cant organize 300 people from AD and 300 people from DC to sit afk for 5 days preventing an offense just to get 1 person on EP former title + buffs
(+ it would be griefing and those 600 players should be banned just like the oil exploiters should be if they did manage to accomplish getting that many to afk to weaken the offensive against dethrowning)

The non vet campaign will have its own issues, probably will be dead and shouldnt be the only reason preventing this solution from working on all the other servers.

I believe this solution would be a great boon in that it would strength cyrodiil by giving more incentive to defend your kingdom for longer periods of time. It would reward "the individual" by rewarding 'TRUE' emperors who could actually defend their throne for 5 days instead of abdicating. And would only punish those which abdicating emperorship immediately or anyone with a very short reign which you would remove just about everything anyways.

OrangeTheCat · July 2014

PlagueMonk wrote: »

So DC is holding 5 of the 6 scrolls and the majority of the keeps right now and instead of AD trying to get their keeps/scrolls back they are attacking EP? (along with DC of course). Real BS that you are helping DC catch up, can't win w/o help?

I thought the idea was that the two underdogs would team up to take out the king on the hill but all I ever see is AD (the kings atm) and DC (AD's lapdogs apparently) teaming up to attack EP endlessly. Really gets tiresome and discouraging to have to constantly fight a 2 front war.

Well Zenimax your "system" is failing.

LOL. No fix is needed. What's wrong with two factions teaming up (assuming they actually are; I think you are assuming more coordination than is likely to happen; it's not like each side has one decision maker)?

aksyong · July 2014

I think someone is just sour that they are under constant fire. If you can't handle the heat, get your a$$ out of Cyro and stop PvP-ing boy.

ZheinLevin · July 2014

Somewhat off topic here but I saw someone say that no one has held the Emperor title for more than three days since reset. Luvboard held it for something like 7 days didn't he?

kijima · July 2014

8 days, 12 hours and 42 minutes if you want to be precise.

Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story!

apostate9 · July 2014

Dleatherus wrote: »

I had hoped that more populated campaigns would make this kind of collusion impossible - I guess it was wishful thinking

are you sure it's collusion - wabba (NA) seems to have a large enough population that the number of legit players in any alliance would not make this possible?

that said, this is EXACTLY why the solution proposed by some of not letting 'former emperor' buffs apply unless you can hold the throne for more than 3 days is a failed suggestion

all that would happen is that some of the most influential guilds in the 3 alliances would coordinate so that they would work in 3 day cycles of attacking/defending and the emperor farming would still continue as usual, just at a much slower pace

these guilds could also arrange AP farm fight clubs amongst each other just like already happens in some of the emp farming campaigns

ZOS actually cares greatly about the PvP system - they just have a very borked response/communication system that is slowly ( and painfully) getting better

D.

To sum up:

1. Dueling when a campaign gets slow is not fun, it is "farming".
2. When the campaign DOES pick up, attacking me instead of the other guy, is "farming" because I hate having to defend.
3. Using tactics that work well is "farming".
4. Not hoarding Emp for 90 straight days is "farming".

Wow. We should soon solve the world's hunger problems with all this "farming".
Here is the thing. Different people get different things out of this game. Some people like to fight because the combat itself is stimulating. Is this "kill farming"? Is this not ok? How about people who like to craft and sell stuff. Is that gold farming now?

All is fair in love and war. If the game mechanics allow it, then it is allowed. Period. If ZOS decides something is exploitive, they will patch it. Otherwise...STOP CRYING. Just stop, and you know who you are. This forum has become the most miserable and self-indulgent whine-fest I have seen on the Internets for a while, and this saying a lot considering the Internets. If Wabba is not a level playing field of all places, you aren't gonna get one.

Don't like smurfs? Fight em. Don't have enough guys? Work on your social skills and recruit. Don't like Emp farmers? Get more AP and HOLD the crown your own self! Don't like dying? Get better or stop playing PVP but by all means...turn off the faucets.

Mechanics matter, motive doesn't. ZOS can set the ground rules through code and we all must play within them... but you don't get to control people's reasons for playing. Ever. If my goal is to get Emp for every single person in my guild (it's not) and you take a dim view of me on that basis...guess what? Tough. Don't want me to pass out crowns like candy to all my buddies? Stop me. I dare you. You say you can't because me and my buddies all use ____ or spam ___ or put oilpots on the ___ or whatever? Too bad, you lose. Learn to put oilpots on the _____ then. PVP has winners, and losers. It is competitive, so compete. Maybe the other alliances are "colluding" to take you out because your alliance is weak, and the sharks smell blood. Sucks to be you.

That's why they call it "Player vs Player". Something that may be the subject of a fundamental misunderstaning. It isn't player vs. Flag, or player vs. wall. Stop holding players accountable to the rules in your head...those don't matter. Some people follow the rules in their head instead of the real rules, and expect others to do the the same. When they don't win, they accuse others of cheating. This is not a realistic expectation. They are not cheating, they are simply playing within the real rules.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

This is a worthwhile read for all PVPers.

quakedawg_ESO · July 2014

apostate9 wrote: »

To sum up:

1. Dueling when a campaign gets slow is not fun, it is "farming".
2. When the campaign DOES pick up, attacking me instead of the other guy, is "farming" because I hate having to defend.
3. Using tactics that work well is "farming".
4. Not hoarding Emp for 90 straight days is "farming".

Wow. We should soon solve the world's hunger problems with all this "farming".
Here is the thing. Different people get different things out of this game. Some people like to fight because the combat itself is stimulating. Is this "kill farming"? Is this not ok? How about people who like to craft and sell stuff. Is that gold farming now?

All is fair in love and war. If the game mechanics allow it, then it is allowed. Period. If ZOS decides something is exploitive, they will patch it. Otherwise...STOP CRYING. Just stop, and you know who you are. This forum has become the most miserable and self-indulgent whine-fest I have seen on the Internets for a while, and this saying a lot considering the Internets. If Wabba is not a level playing field of all places, you aren't gonna get one.

Don't like smurfs? Fight em. Don't have enough guys? Work on your social skills and recruit. Don't like Emp farmers? Get more AP and HOLD the crown your own self! Don't like dying? Get better or stop playing PVP but by all means...turn off the faucets.

Mechanics matter, motive doesn't. ZOS can set the ground rules through code and we all must play within them... but you don't get to control people's reasons for playing. Ever. If my goal is to get Emp for every single person in my guild (it's not) and you take a dim view of me on that basis...guess what? Tough. Don't want me to pass out crowns like candy to all my buddies? Stop me. I dare you. You say you can't because me and my buddies all use ____ or spam ___ or put oilpots on the ___ or whatever? Too bad, you lose. Learn to put oilpots on the _____ then. PVP has winners, and losers. It is competitive, so compete. Maybe the other alliances are "colluding" to take you out because your alliance is weak, and the sharks smell blood. Sucks to be you.

That's why they call it "Player vs Player". Something that may be the subject of a fundamental misunderstaning. It isn't player vs. Flag, or player vs. wall. Stop holding players accountable to the rules in your head...those don't matter. Some people follow the rules in their head instead of the real rules, and expect others to do the the same. When they don't win, they accuse others of cheating. This is not a realistic expectation. They are not cheating, they are simply playing within the real rules.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

This is a worthwhile read for all PVPers.

+1

Wish I could put this entire post in my signature!

pitdemon_ESO · July 2014

apostate9 wrote: »

Dleatherus wrote: »

I had hoped that more populated campaigns would make this kind of collusion impossible - I guess it was wishful thinking

are you sure it's collusion - wabba (NA) seems to have a large enough population that the number of legit players in any alliance would not make this possible?

that said, this is EXACTLY why the solution proposed by some of not letting 'former emperor' buffs apply unless you can hold the throne for more than 3 days is a failed suggestion

all that would happen is that some of the most influential guilds in the 3 alliances would coordinate so that they would work in 3 day cycles of attacking/defending and the emperor farming would still continue as usual, just at a much slower pace

these guilds could also arrange AP farm fight clubs amongst each other just like already happens in some of the emp farming campaigns

ZOS actually cares greatly about the PvP system - they just have a very borked response/communication system that is slowly ( and painfully) getting better

D.

To sum up:

1. Dueling when a campaign gets slow is not fun, it is "farming".
2. When the campaign DOES pick up, attacking me instead of the other guy, is "farming" because I hate having to defend.
3. Using tactics that work well is "farming".
4. Not hoarding Emp for 90 straight days is "farming".

Wow. We should soon solve the world's hunger problems with all this "farming".
Here is the thing. Different people get different things out of this game. Some people like to fight because the combat itself is stimulating. Is this "kill farming"? Is this not ok? How about people who like to craft and sell stuff. Is that gold farming now?

All is fair in love and war. If the game mechanics allow it, then it is allowed. Period. If ZOS decides something is exploitive, they will patch it. Otherwise...STOP CRYING. Just stop, and you know who you are. This forum has become the most miserable and self-indulgent whine-fest I have seen on the Internets for a while, and this saying a lot considering the Internets. If Wabba is not a level playing field of all places, you aren't gonna get one.

Don't like smurfs? Fight em. Don't have enough guys? Work on your social skills and recruit. Don't like Emp farmers? Get more AP and HOLD the crown your own self! Don't like dying? Get better or stop playing PVP but by all means...turn off the faucets.

Mechanics matter, motive doesn't. ZOS can set the ground rules through code and we all must play within them... but you don't get to control people's reasons for playing. Ever. If my goal is to get Emp for every single person in my guild (it's not) and you take a dim view of me on that basis...guess what? Tough. Don't want me to pass out crowns like candy to all my buddies? Stop me. I dare you. You say you can't because me and my buddies all use ____ or spam ___ or put oilpots on the ___ or whatever? Too bad, you lose. Learn to put oilpots on the _____ then. PVP has winners, and losers. It is competitive, so compete. Maybe the other alliances are "colluding" to take you out because your alliance is weak, and the sharks smell blood. Sucks to be you.

That's why they call it "Player vs Player". Something that may be the subject of a fundamental misunderstaning. It isn't player vs. Flag, or player vs. wall. Stop holding players accountable to the rules in your head...those don't matter. Some people follow the rules in their head instead of the real rules, and expect others to do the the same. When they don't win, they accuse others of cheating. This is not a realistic expectation. They are not cheating, they are simply playing within the real rules.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

This is a worthwhile read for all PVPers.

tl;dr: If you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin

Hilarious

demonlkojipub19_ESO · July 2014

ZoS should make a campaign or two for people with no moral integrity.

shanersimms_ESO · July 2014

PlagueMonk wrote: »

So DC is holding 5 of the 6 scrolls and the majority of the keeps right now and instead of AD trying to get their keeps/scrolls back they are attacking EP? (along with DC of course). Real BS that you are helping DC catch up, can't win w/o help?

I thought the idea was that the two underdogs would team up to take out the king on the hill but all I ever see is AD (the kings atm) and DC (AD's lapdogs apparently) teaming up to attack EP endlessly. Really gets tiresome and discouraging to have to constantly fight a 2 front war.

Well Zenimax your "system" is failing.

Lol are you serious? This entire last weekend was nothing but constant pressure from both EP and AD clearly teaming up. We saw multiple instances of AD running cover while EP ran scrolls back. There were multiple instances of the same keep being sieged on one side by EP and the other by AD. DC is in last place atm wheras AD is in first. The 'system' at this point should be encouraging EP and us (DC) to be hitting AD but that's simply not happening.

So what if DC had most the scrolls for part of a day. Doesn't change the fact we're still 4k behind....

Orizuru · July 2014

I'm not sure you understand how wars work when there are more than two factions involved. I don't see a problem here. All I see is someone getting upset because two of his enemies are working together against him.

apostate9 · July 2014

pitdemon_ESO wrote: »

apostate9 wrote: »

Dleatherus wrote: »

I had hoped that more populated campaigns would make this kind of collusion impossible - I guess it was wishful thinking

are you sure it's collusion - wabba (NA) seems to have a large enough population that the number of legit players in any alliance would not make this possible?

that said, this is EXACTLY why the solution proposed by some of not letting 'former emperor' buffs apply unless you can hold the throne for more than 3 days is a failed suggestion

all that would happen is that some of the most influential guilds in the 3 alliances would coordinate so that they would work in 3 day cycles of attacking/defending and the emperor farming would still continue as usual, just at a much slower pace

these guilds could also arrange AP farm fight clubs amongst each other just like already happens in some of the emp farming campaigns

ZOS actually cares greatly about the PvP system - they just have a very borked response/communication system that is slowly ( and painfully) getting better

D.

To sum up:

1. Dueling when a campaign gets slow is not fun, it is "farming".
2. When the campaign DOES pick up, attacking me instead of the other guy, is "farming" because I hate having to defend.
3. Using tactics that work well is "farming".
4. Not hoarding Emp for 90 straight days is "farming".

Wow. We should soon solve the world's hunger problems with all this "farming".
Here is the thing. Different people get different things out of this game. Some people like to fight because the combat itself is stimulating. Is this "kill farming"? Is this not ok? How about people who like to craft and sell stuff. Is that gold farming now?

All is fair in love and war. If the game mechanics allow it, then it is allowed. Period. If ZOS decides something is exploitive, they will patch it. Otherwise...STOP CRYING. Just stop, and you know who you are. This forum has become the most miserable and self-indulgent whine-fest I have seen on the Internets for a while, and this saying a lot considering the Internets. If Wabba is not a level playing field of all places, you aren't gonna get one.

Don't like smurfs? Fight em. Don't have enough guys? Work on your social skills and recruit. Don't like Emp farmers? Get more AP and HOLD the crown your own self! Don't like dying? Get better or stop playing PVP but by all means...turn off the faucets.

Mechanics matter, motive doesn't. ZOS can set the ground rules through code and we all must play within them... but you don't get to control people's reasons for playing. Ever. If my goal is to get Emp for every single person in my guild (it's not) and you take a dim view of me on that basis...guess what? Tough. Don't want me to pass out crowns like candy to all my buddies? Stop me. I dare you. You say you can't because me and my buddies all use ____ or spam ___ or put oilpots on the ___ or whatever? Too bad, you lose. Learn to put oilpots on the _____ then. PVP has winners, and losers. It is competitive, so compete. Maybe the other alliances are "colluding" to take you out because your alliance is weak, and the sharks smell blood. Sucks to be you.

That's why they call it "Player vs Player". Something that may be the subject of a fundamental misunderstaning. It isn't player vs. Flag, or player vs. wall. Stop holding players accountable to the rules in your head...those don't matter. Some people follow the rules in their head instead of the real rules, and expect others to do the the same. When they don't win, they accuse others of cheating. This is not a realistic expectation. They are not cheating, they are simply playing within the real rules.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

This is a worthwhile read for all PVPers.

tl;dr: If you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin

Hilarious

If you ain't cheatin' then you ain't cheatin', actually. And the computer won't let you cheat. Much. Maybe this game is just too scary for some people. If you want to make a bunch of money doing well understood, repetitive tasks, I hear Monopoly can be awesome.

apostate9 · July 2014

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

ZoS should make a campaign or two for people with no moral integrity.

You mean one where your "head rules" are less important than the real rules? They already made a bunch. What you want is a Little League server.

shimmyatwa_ESO · July 2014

And just today 50+ AD stood on the walls of Alessia watching EP take the keep and then walk out the door with a DC scroll. AD played security to make sure DC couldn't get to it. Guess EP pays better?

dbishop · July 2014

I find the above hard to believe seeing as we were working so hard to keep Alessia when I was on about 5 hours before your post.

kijima · July 2014

Didn't see that instance, but collusion exists plain and simple.

Whether you like it or not ( I don't for what it's worth ) this is still very much a part of PvP, warts and all.