New Champion Point System creating an even larger player gap
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Anastasia✭✭✭✭Kronosphere wrote: »i dont even acknowledge the other side of this argument as being logical or correct in any way. what are you guys even asking? do u want to log in 1 min a day and be on par with someone who plays more? do u want there to be no progression because you cant be bothered? do you want everything hand fed cuz u are too dumb to figure things out yourselve or actually put some effort into something? you are the reason morrowind is still much more fun and immersive and awesome than the latter games. you are literally killing gaming, guy play candy crush on your ipad.
at the end of the day most of this seems like jealousy and like "i cant get this easily but that person who worked for it got XYZ and i dont have it therefore i should have it or no one should". yes some things in pvp may be contrary to that but the mindset is of a spoiled 5 year old child who has been given everything thier whole life and is entitled as all hell.
tldr stop ruining my games and dumbing them down. u are killing the longeivity of this industry
Sadly, it sounds like this is exactly what they are saying.
And it would appear that one poster in particular is bringing "social responsibility" into it. Lol. Yes, it's bad for society at large for there to be challenge, time sinks, and appropriate rewards in games. And given the mindset and mo of a particular brand of politics these days, I wouldn't be shocked to learn they were actually serious.
I weep for the future.
Social responsibility has nothing to do with game difficulty. I have never even claimed that, so keep pulling stuff out your bum.
I'm on about the industry as a whole and how it overly rewards excessive (I did not say reasonable) amounts of gameplay. I'm not exactly what I'd call casual myself.
This system will make that worse, if there is no cap at all some will play until it destroys their lives. It's obviously not every one, it's a minority, but the fact is people like that do exist and games developers ignore it.
Heck I'd be happy if there was a system in place that just let you report to the GM's that you were concerned that someone was overly addicted, then they could monitor.
And to the people saying don't restrict me. No addict will admit the problem till it's too late, in the vast majority of circumstances.
You may think I'm crazy, but you all could imagine a law like this being passed. Things needs to be put in place to protect the most vulnerable in society, even if the average person doesn't need it.
>>>"You may think I'm crazy, but you all could imagine a law like this being passed."<<<
Frick, maybe in some Orwellian or a post-apoc society.
I'm thinkin for now, there may be enough people left whose intellect is developed and intact enough to take action and stand firm against this outrageous imagining of governmental care-taking and disciplining. For those who need help, there are provisions in most western nations available for addictions. Social responsibility is a good thing, but 'fixing what ails' segments of entire populations is not.
Comeon - we're talking about the upcoming TESO Champion Point system here I think, not lobbying agendas for authoritarian control. o-0Edited by Anastasia on July 21, 2014 1:41PM3 -
Kizziexo✭✭✭Devs need to close this topic. To many a**hole with "real lives" that think they deserve some extra crap for being normal. Just because you have a slaving job makes you no better than the person who works less hours, you don't know how much they get paid so quit bashing folks who play the exact same game you play more than you. Even the simple games, (Pokemon) requires time put in to be strong. You don't just play an hour and expect to compete with someone who played even 2 hours longer. Stop whining and asking for handouts because you hate your real life so bad. We all pay the same sub so just because you work most of your day doesn't make you any better or deserve anymore then someone who has free time. I'd expect someone who takes so much pride in "working" to have no problem putting work in to get stronger, but I guess since it's a game you want it easy. Go play pac-man.4 -
Endolith✭✭✭Let's face it, MMOs aren't exactly difficult. There's no reason sitting around engaging MMO mechanics for eighty hours a week makes you any better at anything than someone who does it for ten. If you want to be better, then get better at it and prove it on a level playing field instead of having it handed to you through stats etc just because you sit in your chair longer than the next guy.
It looks to me like the people who really want something handed to them are the ones who sit in front of the game for endless hours, and want those hours to translate into being better at the game than the next guy, when they're not really better at the game.
If you want to become better, then become better. Don't expect the game to continuously hand-hold you with passives or stat boosts ad infinitum to give you an edge.Edited by Endolith on July 21, 2014 10:11PM3 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oh this has gotten even more absurd.
Stop bringing politics into it. This does not echo the behavior of either side, and you just show a lack of control if every argument results in you spewing passive aggressive vitriol at another political party.
I play about 12 hours a day, sometimes more. I am not addicted, I just have the ability to do that and choose to spend my time that way. I hate people, so avoid social situations, and at the very least, I don't have to look at your guys' mugs when dealing with you.
If you have a social life or an involved work, good for you. You are winning at life and you are no doubt reaping the benefits of such. I applaud you and wish I was in the same situation.
Since I spend my time in a virtual world, I don't get the rewards you get. Instead I get virtual rewards. You are getting the best of life, and then envying me for getting more when playing pretend.
This is counter-intuitive.
So I propose a trade.
I will play your character, instead of mine, if I can have your real life rewards, such as money and a house and a nice car. I will play that character into the ground, you will get every perk of the game. And you can play whenever you want, I will log off to let you enjoy that character.
It's clear you just don't appreciate the rewards you are personally getting for where your time is invested.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.5 -
eol✭✭✭I think the OP has it backwards, the Champion system will reduce the disparity between post-50 players, not increase it. For starters it sounds like they will eliminate VR ranks altogether. Also, it looked like the point categories were capped, sort of like the point system in skyrim (they even use constellation thingies like skyrim). So its not like someone can go up infinitely in one category.
The lesson they learned from VR is that many players don't want so much grind post-50, or such different (more difficult) gameplay. Given that, I don't know why in the world they would replace the VR system with an even more grindy system, that defeats the whole purpose.0 -
xsfkxnub19_ESO wrote: »
I simply cannot stand the mindset of being held by your hand...
It's the trophy generation Millennials. They want an award just for showing up.1 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭ncancelliere_ESO wrote: »xsfkxnub19_ESO wrote: »
I simply cannot stand the mindset of being held by your hand...
It's the trophy generation Millennials. They want an award just for showing up.
Millenials are the first generation to make less than their parents, their debt is higher, they get paid less for the same work, they have less to look forward to, a higher age before SS etc.
That would make me pretty unmotivated and unhappy as well. Though Millenials aren't actually unmotivated, they work just as hard.
It's funny how all the people older than millenials trash them when it was these older generations who squandered the good things so it wouldn't be there for the generations to come.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.2 -
Anastasia✭✭✭✭
You have clearly never known anyone with any metal issues, good for you. I suppose you should remove all safety labels and lets the worlds problems solve themselves huh?
Its ok hilgara, I've never known anyone with metal issues either.
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Anastasia✭✭✭✭aronothub17_ESO wrote: »actually i dont see it being game breaking at all. Have you ever played RIFT, I see the champion system as much the same as planar attunement, and PA was hardly game breaking. the passives will be something like a a 1% hp a 1% dmg with such weapon. sure, by spending points well you could get say a whole 20% damage or hp boost but thats hardly game breaking considering the time you would have to spend earning that 20%. Its basically implementing a passive never ending leveling system. Which im sure, like Planar attunement, will get harder to earn points each time you earn a point. I think on my characters on RIFT it takes like 60 million xp just to gain one point in PA.
The only thing that could cause issue is its implementation. is it going to be universal based on ALL xp earned to date or are they going to screw over people who have gone to VR12 and no longer are able to get vr1-12 worth of xp into the Champion system. That could cause a bit of a grip, and i dont even have a VR 12 toon
1. "passives will be something like a a 1% hp a 1% dmg with such weapon. sure, by spending points well you could get say a whole 20% damage or hp boost but thats hardly game breaking considering the time you would have to spend earning that 20%." LoL, that only costs me the amount of original time investment to earn that 20%, then forever after I and any alts I may have can use that extra 20% along with other champion points.
2. Better rethink your position on these 'trivial' lil passives you are theorizing will mean little to nothing. At endgame, folks fiddle around with 3% increases and such and are quite pleased with the result
. Looking forward to this. 
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smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭aronothub17_ESO wrote: »actually i dont see it being game breaking at all. Have you ever played RIFT, I see the champion system as much the same as planar attunement, and PA was hardly game breaking. the passives will be something like a a 1% hp a 1% dmg with such weapon. sure, by spending points well you could get say a whole 20% damage or hp boost but thats hardly game breaking considering the time you would have to spend earning that 20%. Its basically implementing a passive never ending leveling system. Which im sure, like Planar attunement, will get harder to earn points each time you earn a point. I think on my characters on RIFT it takes like 60 million xp just to gain one point in PA.
The only thing that could cause issue is its implementation. is it going to be universal based on ALL xp earned to date or are they going to screw over people who have gone to VR12 and no longer are able to get vr1-12 worth of xp into the Champion system. That could cause a bit of a grip, and i dont even have a VR 12 toon
1. "passives will be something like a a 1% hp a 1% dmg with such weapon. sure, by spending points well you could get say a whole 20% damage or hp boost but thats hardly game breaking considering the time you would have to spend earning that 20%." LoL, that only costs me the amount of original time investment to earn that 20%, then forever after I and any alts I may have can use that extra 20% along with other champion points.
2. Better rethink your position on these 'trivial' lil passives you are theorizing will mean little to nothing. At endgame, folks fiddle around with 3% increases and such and are quite pleased with the result. Looking forward to this.
I'm pretty sure that, while you get champion points towards your account, you have to spend the points towards individual toons. Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't read anywhere that the passives themselves were account wide.Edited by smeeprocketnub19_ESO on July 21, 2014 11:31PMDear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.2 -
Anastasia✭✭✭✭I hope they do put some kind of soft caps on champion points. I just keep remembering that episode of South Park, with that no life that did nothing but play, no one could compete with him. Kind of extreme I know, but if there's no cap that guy will exist in this game.
And Guppet, you will have to tread the same ground he/she does, you may even *gasp, play in a GROUP sometime with a person 'like that.'
Perhaps your play timer will go off in the middle of it though, sparing you from having to come up with any additional fake compassion for attention than you are showing right now, along with your authoritarian stance on other people's moral compass and lifestyle choices. Good journeys! (*Scibbles down note to self to check out the mad gamer episode of South Park
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smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I hope they do put some kind of soft caps on champion points. I just keep remembering that episode of South Park, with that no life that did nothing but play, no one could compete with him. Kind of extreme I know, but if there's no cap that guy will exist in this game.
And Guppet, you will have to tread the same ground he/she does, you may even *gasp, play in a GROUP sometime with a person 'like that.'
Perhaps your play timer will go off in the middle of it though, sparing you from having to come up with any additional fake compassion for attention than you are showing right now, along with your authoritarian stance on other people's moral compass and lifestyle choices. Good journeys! (*Scibbles down note to self to check out the mad gamer episode of South Park
Seriously. It perplexes me as to what motivates people to think they should be able to pass some sort of judgement over the lives of others when no harm is being done to anyone.
Too many busybodies and church lady types in my opinion.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.1 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭Let's face it, MMOs aren't exactly difficult. There's no reason sitting around engaging MMO mechanics for eighty hours a week makes you any better at anything than someone who does it for ten. If you want to be better, then get better at it and prove it on a level playing field instead of having it handed to you through stats etc just because you sit in your chair longer than the next guy.
It looks to me like the people who really want something handed to them are the ones who sit in front of the game for endless hours, and want those hours to translate into being better at the game than the next guy, when they're not really better at the game.
If you want to become better, then become better. Don't expect the game to continuously hand-hold you with passives or stat boosts ad infinitum to give you an edge.
But, but they play longer, they should win, skill is how long you play the game right? Its never been about skill, they just want an unassailable edge and then want to think its skill (what ever helps them sleep I guess).
If you play more, your edge should be the skills you pick up, your situational awareness. That right there is why Ill always choose Planetside 2 for my PVP fix, it does not mater how long you have been playing, if you know your stuff you can make a real difference.
PVP in MMO's, has always been about who puts in the most hours, to get the best gear and now it will include the most champion points too. To be fair though I've not really seen anyone claiming to be PVP gods in this game, so I guess most know that.2 -
Anastasia✭✭✭✭The_Sadist wrote: »I have read through most of this thread and I'm relatively confused.
This is an MMO, it's competitive, it's time consuming and you get out what you put in. Most if not all MMO's work like this, the casual gamer shouldn't be as powerful as the individual who treats the game like a second job. The casual gamer shouldn't expect to be and really shouldn't complain because someone is willing to put more time into the game and progress their characters at a faster rate. This 'gap' might occur, but it might be a capped system or the benefits might be minute at best, who knows?
Go play EVE online, players who have been playing for years will completely destroy you. The same is true for most, if not all, MMO's. There's no point damning a system which hasn't even been fully explored / explained just yet. Feel free to complain about bugs and uncalled for nerfs (looking at you Storm Atronach), but I don't understand why there's so much outrage over nothing. If you're a casual gamer that's cool, but I can't take posts like this seriously, much like individuals complaining about vampires ruining their immersion and all that jazz.
The_Sadist said:>>>*"This is an MMO, it's competitive, it's time consuming and you get out what you put in."*<<<
Astonishingly and sadly that definition is exactly what some are trying hard to redefine, much to my chagrin.0 -
Anastasia✭✭✭✭Devs need to close this topic. To many a**hole with "real lives" that think they deserve some extra crap for being normal. Just because you have a slaving job makes you no better than the person who works less hours, you don't know how much they get paid so quit bashing folks who play the exact same game you play more than you. Even the simple games, (Pokemon) requires time put in to be strong. You don't just play an hour and expect to compete with someone who played even 2 hours longer. Stop whining and asking for handouts because you hate your real life so bad. We all pay the same sub so just because you work most of your day doesn't make you any better or deserve anymore then someone who has free time. I'd expect someone who takes so much pride in "working" to have no problem putting work in to get stronger, but I guess since it's a game you want it easy. Go play pac-man.
Kizziexo said: "Just because you have a slaving job makes you no better than the person who works less hours, you don't know how much they get paid so quit bashing folks who play the exact same game you play more than you."
Concur completely Kizziexo!
While stereotypes have a basis in fact, its hard for me to believe that on a gaming forum where we are discussing some mechanics/feature/upcoming new content and being subject to a lecture about a societal problem (*real as well as possibly overhyped). Further it seems we are expected to react with some pious stance against other players who are entertaining themselves in the very same way we are currently. o-0
Now, back to looking forward to the Champion System and wondering how ZOS really plans to carry it out...!
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Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well here's a different viewpoint on the champion points if it really is unlimited. One of the things that's MMO gamers really love is an end point to strive for, be that max level or the best gear. With no end point for the champion points, could that not make it feel a bit pointless and could actually demotivate some people? If your 50% of the way through a grind and you know the end it there, you may carry on playing beyond the point that you are actually bored, just for that sense of completion, but with no end, you may as well give up as soon as your bored, making ZOS less money.2 -
GnatB✭✭✭✭Who cares about players being more powerful than other players in ESO? This is an RPG. As such, a player who has put more time/effort into their character will, pretty much by definition, curb stomp the weaker player. If you want PvP that's actually based on player skill, and not on who has built the better character by putting more time/effort into it, then you probably shouldn't play a genre where, by definition, how well you do is based on your characters abilities and not the players.
Stop trying, or expecting, to get good player skill based PvP in an RPG. The two concepts are practically diametrically opposed to each other. PvP RPG combat will always inevitably be players who have put more time/effort in their characters curbstomping those who haven't.
The sooner certain people come to this obvious conclusion, the happier everybody will be. Companies will start creating fantasy based games that are actually designed for PvP, (not just PvP shoehorned into an RPG), and they'll stop breaking perfectly good RPG's trying to shoehorn in PvP.Achievements Suck1 -
hamon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Honestly, the whole champion thing sounds to me like a well dressed means of raising the level cap without sounding like you're trying to raise the level cap.
yes kinda like changing normal 1-50 to v1-12 afterwards.. but you,d be amazed at how many folk were fooled by that who would argue till blue in the face that its not levelling
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Anastasia✭✭✭✭Well here's a different viewpoint on the champion points if it really is unlimited. One of the things that's MMO gamers really love is an end point to strive for, be that max level or the best gear. With no end point for the champion points, could that not make it feel a bit pointless and could actually demotivate some people? If your 50% of the way through a grind and you know the end it there, you may carry on playing beyond the point that you are actually bored, just for that sense of completion, but with no end, you may as well give up as soon as your bored, making ZOS less money.
Correction Guppet: "One of the things that's MMO gamers really love is an end point to strive for, be that max level or the best gear. With no end point for the champion points, could that not make it feel a bit pointless and could actually demotivate some people?"
One of the things that MMO gamers realllllly love is figuring out what it takes, and which step will bring one further along the journey, closer to the newest hopefully exciting content or endcap.
Earning and wearing the 'best gear' is part of the way one does get to the endgame content and upon arriving is competitive and squared away. These Champion points look to me like a means to obtain more efficiency, have input over better synergy with other skills already obtained, and will grow my character along her path as she heads there to wherever there is: the current endgame, or an upcoming expansion.
The Champion system is not the goal, it is an interesting enrichment on the way to having fun
. Did I clear that up? Edited by Anastasia on July 22, 2014 1:19AM1 -
Obscure✭✭✭✭✭Leveling structures are stupid archaic unnecessary vestiges from a dead age of gaming that have simply refused to ***ing die.
That said, ESO has a leveling system that awards players who spend more time with more power. That in an of itself isn't a bad thing but keep in mind every increment better your character becomes the less valuable your skill at playing the character becomes. I like to use the Incredible Hulk vs Hawkeye analogy to explain this concept. The Hulk would need to exert very little skill or effort to pop Hawkeye's head like a grape, but Hawkeye would have to pull off nothing short of a miracle to so much as injure the Hulk. One requires no skill the other requires a near unobtainable level of skill due to the simple difference in Power. Ultimately this means that only when the Hulk faces someone on his level does skill even matter. What this means for a game is that skill is rendered secondary to raw power, and since leveling is the power source all that really matters in a fight is what that number in the upper left hand corner is. Only in the event that the enemy enemy's number is equal or higher does your skill come into play.
In the best games the first enemy you face is just as hard after 2000 hours of play, and the only difference between hour 1 and hour 2000 is your actual experience: you are actually better at the game and not statistically better due to game mechanics specifically tailored to make that fight easy for you.
Yeah it's stupid, but hey that's the reality I live in so you know what I do? I effin deal with it like a grown well adjusted adult living in the 21st century. I think the IRS, TSA, and just about every politician with a pulse is ***ing stupid too.2 -
smeeprocketnub19_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Honestly, the whole champion thing sounds to me like a well dressed means of raising the level cap without sounding like you're trying to raise the level cap.
yes kinda like changing normal 1-50 to v1-12 afterwards.. but you,d be amazed at how many folk were fooled by that who would argue till blue in the face that its not levelling
both of you clearly have no idea what horizontal progression is.Dear Sister, I do not spread rumors, I create them.2 -
GnatB✭✭✭✭Leveling structures are stupid archaic unnecessary vestiges from a dead age of gaming that have simply refused to ***ing die.
That said, ESO has a leveling system that awards players who spend more time with more power. That in an of itself isn't a bad thing but keep in mind every increment better your character becomes the less valuable your skill at playing the character becomes. I like to use the Incredible Hulk vs Hawkeye analogy to explain this concept. The Hulk would need to exert very little skill or effort to pop Hawkeye's head like a grape, but Hawkeye would have to pull off nothing short of a miracle to so much as injure the Hulk. One requires no skill the other requires a near unobtainable level of skill due to the simple difference in Power. Ultimately this means that only when the Hulk faces someone on his level does skill even matter. What this means for a game is that skill is rendered secondary to raw power, and since leveling is the power source all that really matters in a fight is what that number in the upper left hand corner is. Only in the event that the enemy enemy's number is equal or higher does your skill come into play.
In the best games the first enemy you face is just as hard after 2000 hours of play, and the only difference between hour 1 and hour 2000 is your actual experience: you are actually better at the game and not statistically better due to game mechanics specifically tailored to make that fight easy for you.
Yeah it's stupid, but hey that's the reality I live in so you know what I do? I effin deal with it like a grown well adjusted adult living in the 21st century. I think the IRS, TSA, and just about every politician with a pulse is ***ing stupid too.
Just don't confuse action game with an RPG. The fundamental core concept of the RPG genre is success/failure is based on the roles abilities. Whether it is putting a sword into a goblin or baking a cake. The fundamental core concept of the "action game" genre is that success/failure is based on the players abilities.
So yes, in an *action game*, the first enemy you face is just as "hard" after 2000 hours of play, but you, as a player, have gotten better. In an *RPG*, the first enemy you face is not just as hard (for you, the player) after 2000 hours of play because the *character* has gotten better.
And please, PLEASE don't confuse either RPG or Action game *genres* as games that happen to have a first person narrative style.
Achievements Suck1 -
RatsnevE✭✭✭
In my opinion there will be fewer and fewer elites playing the piano but a lot who love listening to classical piano playing but weren't born with the talent.In my opinion, champion system is great, it will give ESO more... hm, freedom in creating builds. Making your own specialization will be much funnier!1 -
Obscure✭✭✭✭✭Leveling structures are stupid archaic unnecessary vestiges from a dead age of gaming that have simply refused to ***ing die.
That said, ESO has a leveling system that awards players who spend more time with more power. That in an of itself isn't a bad thing but keep in mind every increment better your character becomes the less valuable your skill at playing the character becomes. I like to use the Incredible Hulk vs Hawkeye analogy to explain this concept. The Hulk would need to exert very little skill or effort to pop Hawkeye's head like a grape, but Hawkeye would have to pull off nothing short of a miracle to so much as injure the Hulk. One requires no skill the other requires a near unobtainable level of skill due to the simple difference in Power. Ultimately this means that only when the Hulk faces someone on his level does skill even matter. What this means for a game is that skill is rendered secondary to raw power, and since leveling is the power source all that really matters in a fight is what that number in the upper left hand corner is. Only in the event that the enemy enemy's number is equal or higher does your skill come into play.
In the best games the first enemy you face is just as hard after 2000 hours of play, and the only difference between hour 1 and hour 2000 is your actual experience: you are actually better at the game and not statistically better due to game mechanics specifically tailored to make that fight easy for you.
Yeah it's stupid, but hey that's the reality I live in so you know what I do? I effin deal with it like a grown well adjusted adult living in the 21st century. I think the IRS, TSA, and just about every politician with a pulse is ***ing stupid too.
Just don't confuse action game with an RPG. The fundamental core concept of the RPG genre is success/failure is based on the roles abilities. Whether it is putting a sword into a goblin or baking a cake. The fundamental core concept of the "action game" genre is that success/failure is based on the players abilities.
So yes, in an *action game*, the first enemy you face is just as "hard" after 2000 hours of play, but you, as a player, have gotten better. In an *RPG*, the first enemy you face is not just as hard (for you, the player) after 2000 hours of play because the *character* has gotten better.
And please, PLEASE don't confuse either RPG or Action game *genres* as games that happen to have a first person narrative style.
Oh there's no confusion here, I even presented a very RP example of differentials in skill, but I'll elaborate a bit more:
Hawkeye is skilled, extremely so, but despite his greatest of efforts his power amounts to not much more than a nuisance when compared to the Hulk... sneezing. Both are at the top of their game, both are super heroes, but one could save or destroy a city simply because he spilled his coffee on himself that particular morning.
Power is not progression, power is a resultant, a total of everything else. The RPG fails dramatically by leveling a character arbitrarily because he ran in a circle for days killing zombies. No skill, just power, and zero actual progression (you the player learns little to nothing). The term "grind" ring a bell? I'd love to say my character did something meaningful to reach VR11, but the truth is he didn't. The bulk of his levels came from mind numbing grinding for one reason alone: level = power. As long as that remains true, there's nothing more meaningful in any RPG than that effin number. Not saving the princess. Not defeating the evil overlord bent on global domination. Just that little number floating about over everyone's head.
It's a terrible nonsensical distraction from just enjoying a product, and it should be unceremoniously shot in the face, lit on fire, mutilated with a spoon, and buried in a shallow unmarked grave in the middle of nowhere...figuratively speaking of course.4 -
GnatB✭✭✭✭Oh there's no confusion here, I even presented a very RP example of differentials in skill, but I'll elaborate a bit more:
Hawkeye is skilled, extremely so, but despite his greatest of efforts his power amounts to not much more than a nuisance when compared to the Hulk... sneezing. Both are at the top of their game, both are super heroes, but one could save or destroy a city simply because he spilled his coffee on himself that particular morning.
Power is not progression, power is a resultant, a total of everything else. The RPG fails dramatically by leveling a character arbitrarily because he ran in a circle for days killing zombies. No skill, just power, and zero actual progression (you the player learns little to nothing). The term "grind" ring a bell? I'd love to say my character did something meaningful to reach VR11, but the truth is he didn't. The bulk of his levels came from mind numbing grinding for one reason alone: level = power. As long as that remains true, there's nothing more meaningful in any RPG than that effin number. Not saving the princess. Not defeating the evil overlord bent on global domination. Just that little number floating about over everyone's head.
It's a terrible nonsensical distraction from just enjoying a product, and it should be unceremoniously shot in the face, lit on fire, mutilated with a spoon, and buried in a shallow unmarked grave in the middle of nowhere...figuratively speaking of course.
Ok, you don't like RPG's. Good for you. You should probably stick to action games then.
Achievements Suck2 -
RatsnevE✭✭✭What if you like Action and RPGs and MMOs but only half way through skipping PKing and the Elitists? 0
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Obscure✭✭✭✭✭Oh there's no confusion here, I even presented a very RP example of differentials in skill, but I'll elaborate a bit more:
Hawkeye is skilled, extremely so, but despite his greatest of efforts his power amounts to not much more than a nuisance when compared to the Hulk... sneezing. Both are at the top of their game, both are super heroes, but one could save or destroy a city simply because he spilled his coffee on himself that particular morning.
Power is not progression, power is a resultant, a total of everything else. The RPG fails dramatically by leveling a character arbitrarily because he ran in a circle for days killing zombies. No skill, just power, and zero actual progression (you the player learns little to nothing). The term "grind" ring a bell? I'd love to say my character did something meaningful to reach VR11, but the truth is he didn't. The bulk of his levels came from mind numbing grinding for one reason alone: level = power. As long as that remains true, there's nothing more meaningful in any RPG than that effin number. Not saving the princess. Not defeating the evil overlord bent on global domination. Just that little number floating about over everyone's head.
It's a terrible nonsensical distraction from just enjoying a product, and it should be unceremoniously shot in the face, lit on fire, mutilated with a spoon, and buried in a shallow unmarked grave in the middle of nowhere...figuratively speaking of course.
Ok, you don't like RPG's. Good for you. You should probably stick to action games then.
RPG is entirely too broad of a term for that to be true, especially in modern gaming in which even my FPS is an RPG. I just don't like leveling systems, there's better ways to simulate character progression than mimicking elementary counting.2 -
RatsnevE✭✭✭
By that point an MMO is way to broad a genre too. For instance if ESO was broken down into being an MMO Strategy genre I might very well skip it because of that 'Strategy' element but the industry seems more inclined to mislead and draw people into a game for better or worse.RPG is entirely too broad of a term for that to be true, especially in modern gaming in which even my FPS is an RPG. I just don't like leveling systems, there's better ways to simulate character progression than mimicking elementary counting.1 -
RatsnevE✭✭✭
Perfect examples of to much strategy in a game for me and if it was a requirement (in the case of ESO) to early on figure out in order to reach level 50 by grouping in PvP (no solo and no PvE) I for one would never have given ESO a second thought to ever play. I hate [dislike] strategy and PKing.One of the things that MMO gamers realllllly love is figuring out what it takes, and which step will bring one further along the journey, closer to the newest hopefully exciting content or endcap.
Earning and wearing the 'best gear' is part of the way one does get to the endgame content and upon arriving is competitive and squared away. These Champion points look to me like a means to obtain more efficiency, have input over better synergy with other skills already obtained, and will grow my character along her path as she heads there to wherever there is: the current endgame, or an upcoming expansion.1