New Champion Point System creating an even larger player gap

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

rekina wrote: »

What is this, some kind of Republican thread? Stuffy old chaps in their 90s packing up and marching in wheelchairs while holding pickets that saying "YOUNG BOYS SUCK LISTEN TO OLD PEOPLE" "START WAR WITH NK RIGHT NOW"?

I'm getting outta here. Apparently this is not somewhere I want to stay

Please don't use political references. The problem is, republicans see this and think "See, all liberals are entitled and don't want to earn what they have." But that is simply not true. You are perpetuating stereotypes and making it difficult for the rest of us.

Also, if you want to be properly liberal, you should know you've managed to alienate women by using the term boys. I guess we aren't included in this imaginary confrontation.

@guppet Just because you can't control yourself online doesn't mean the rest of us can't. Some of us have jobs or situations that allow us to play for long times. We shouldn't be limited because you and others have an addictive personality.

Personally, I resent being called a dreg because I don't spend my time in a matter you see as productive. I don't exist for your approval. I try to pursue my happiness with out unduly detracting from the happiness of others, and attempt to make the lives of people in my life better. That should be enough.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

rekina wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

rekina wrote: »

Jesus, these people have such a terrible mentality that they want to win other players with their playtime, not with experiences and skill executions... sigh.

And by your "the older characters should be advanced than newer characters because that's how it works in real life" logic you should be still advancing your strength, agility and intelligence in your 90s. One of the most stupid argument ever I've seen. What more making me frustrated is the fact that you don't see how the logic is bad.

I feel sorry for you if you really think like that.

A friend of mine, or better said someone who is living next door in the street is in his 60s, had a wife for 40 years that sadly passed away, 3 kids that come by sometimes and he just finished his Exam in Physics.

He said that he likes to improve his knowledge about things in life and he felt it was always nice to see what's there to discover. He is now even thinking about a Masters degree in Astro Physics...

I am sure he would disagree with you, just like I do.

Life is a never-ending process of learning and improving yourself, I find it hard to believe that someone in the age of 22 after he finished university or college, just stops learning and rests on his couch for the next 60 years or so

No offence, but ya I just don't disagree with your view about life and MMOs sorry

Come back when he still wins 20s men with arm wrestle. No offence, you are [Snip].

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

I'm 67. I have been lifting weights since I was 50. I can crush most young people physically. I am unusual though.

My level 36 vampire witch is now soloing the + dungeons her level. That's 8 man groups with some 10. A vampire is incredibly powerful, played right.

cf398ub17_ESO

SirJesto wrote: »

Not sure if this was mentioned yet but in the video Paul said the champion points can be spent account wide on any character so you could in theory make a lower level alt have some pretty cool abilities for his level.

no your character has to reach level 50 to unlock champion point upgrades

FunkyBudda

crislevin wrote: »

Depends on how they implement it, this is a legit concern.

Imagine an older player with 100 crit, 3000 armor, 10,000 health.

Now, they may add a cap on these things.

But the whole idea behind this is still asking people to grind grind grind. They really need to do away with this whole thing.

exactly, so instead of players' skills, people with more time put into the account are superior. And ESO apologists are saying this game is different than other MMOs, lol.

Anastasia

jeevin wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

jeevin wrote: »

This is the the issue I was trying to get across in my original post. There is BIG difference between getting better as a player because of time invested, vs the players character getting far stronger than others due to time spent playing/leveling/grinding on the treadmill of "Champion Points".

As a player I shouldn't be disadvantaged because I don't waste my whole life playing this game. I should be able to become a better player on even terms via learning the game play, not by out leveling others. I'm concerned Champion Points will leave the same divide we already have

Ok what is the cut off? People like to throw around the no life, i have a life, im super awesome and any one who plays more then me is a no lifer dreg of society, but what is the cut off?

Should you be able to play 5 minutes a day and be in the same place as everyone else? 2 minutes? Why is it fair of you play 15 minutes a day that you get further then someone who plays 5 minutes a day? Oh you play an hour every other day? You no lifer scum.

Woah there sheriff! Just saying I don't want to waste every spare minute playing this game when I have other interests that I like to dedicate time to. I play to enjoy and don't want to feel I need to play or else I'll fall behind. If someone has the time to play 12 hours a day and they enjoy it well power to them.

Like I said earlier though, it's one thing to be a better player because of time spent, it's completely different thing to be out leveled on a constant grind. I'm not interested in leveling or constant character progression. I just want to play a fun game.

---

Once upon a time there were a variety of players who enjoyed their specific interests in an MMO. They might have had crafter mains, or achievement/exploration characters they would play in off times or when not raiding, perhaps their main was a utility-based PvP'er or spent two evening play periods a week at an outdoor venue RP'ing clan intrigue.

Point is they enjoyed their favorite build or style of playing, and all else was just dabbled in a little here or there and basically ignored. They for the most part did not get majorly raged out about the other play styles available in the MMO, rather they avoided that part which wasn't fun for them.

Currently there seem to be a lot of players who fully expect and even DEMAND their preferred playstyle be THE primary focus of TESO. Voices of reason are still to be heard, but illogical ideas about how the game should be changed to fit whatever it is they most enjoy seems so odd to me.

Usually when one buys something, a bit of research is done...and you go, "Ah, yea man I can see thats exactly what I've been looking for, I'm digging that, lets do it" or "Hmm, its got potential but eh, I'ma hold out for another MMO that has a little more of my style of playing in it."

So, aside from IF you were given TESO as a gift, if you are here you must have seen/heard/read some pre-launch interview, visited a fan site or read about it in online media. If generally you knew for instance that it was an MMO within an ES setting with some elements familiar to the Elder Scrolls, not the next installment of the ES franchise...If you read how the devs designed for and intended for the lower levels to be mainly soloable and the Vet content through endgame to be more group-centric (*but your preferred playstyle were soloing 90% of a game)...why would you buy and sub up with TESO?

Coming into the game and deciding to demand or effect a change that is quite different from its original design seems crazy to me honestly. Its not some item by item deli line where you say, "I like that and that and...ooooh ick, don't want any of that --- dump that out and replace it with more of those first two items, and do it fast, get it done now and change anything that comes after to be similar to the first two items as well."

jeevin said: "I'm not interested in leveling or constant character progression. I just want to play a fun game." In that case jeevin, there are LOTS of varying things to do in TESO that don't make you focus on constant character progression or leveling. You can definitely jump in for an hour and back out and have fun. Only focus on leveling and progression if that is what you get the most enjoyment out of. Your character IS going to progress obviously but you don't have to zero in on just that.

But you just CANNOT expect to play an MMO and have your character have the same effectiveness as everyone else. There is no 'fairness to give out/spread around to all'...you cannot win fights or go through content with the same effectiveness that someone else can, who, for whatever reason, has more time in-game to learn.

If they have more time to acquire gear sets with great stats, more time to explore, more time to hang with friends in PvP, more time to craft better items etc then they will be more advanced in some aspect than you are. You can have just as much fun in your other chosen activities. But you can't be competitive while not competing.

Fleymark

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

I think the OPs assumption is wrong, actually what happens is that you are pleasantly surprised at V1 at how easy it suddenly is to face a V12 compared to how it was a lvl 49!

You see the system for adjusting your stats in Cyrodiil completely change at V1 and you become a LOT strong than what you were shortly before.

Agree. Lots of assumptions here. Game balance is always important, arguably the most vital concern the people behind a game has. This game has been kind of challenged in this department, but it's always there, regardless of what happens to the game. It's an issue now and will be after we have champion levels.

Also, bear in mind that the point of champion levels isn't to balance the game, although it could lend itself to that. According to what they said in the panel discussion, they are doing it to make veteran ranks unique and rewarding compared to the rest of the game. Because it lacks that right now.

There can't be a lack of any reward for playing high levels simply out of concern for balance. Balancing everything at particular levels is hard enough, but expecting across the board balance amongst all levels is kind of silly. If you feel you are under tuned at v1 compared to a v12 then level up before you PvP. That's what I'm doing, personally. People at highest levels with max everything and the best gear deserve to have the advantages that come with that.

Fleymark

Sangeet wrote: »

Im currently vr9, and i dont want that the game createas the artifcial invested time gap between players. I would enjoy a softcap system where everyone does the same damge on the battlefield. Fps shooters work with this method since years. Modern shooters make equipment and skills via pvp enabled. Make for example a waraxe skilline only via pvp xp. Create an incentive for pvp. Not more boring solo xp grind. How cool would be additional siege equipment like siege towers or chariots as pvp skill line.

So the guy who has played and developed one toon daily since release, as well as has made the investment in time and/or money in crafting a templated set of gear, fully improved, should do the same damage etc as a guy who made a toon on Tuesday, quested for 2 days gearing up on what ever drops and quest rewards, all greens and whites at that level, then heads to PvP on Thursday?

Absolutely not.

You want a recipe for completely destroying an MMO and any future it might have, it's this.

Fleymark

Guppet wrote: »

xsfkxnub19_ESO wrote: »

Honestly if you put in 20 hours into the game you deserve to be superior to someone who only plays 2 hours or so. (random numbers)

Let's put it this way, two people earn the same amount of money for each hour they work. If I put in overtime, I continue to get paid, and if I stop working well I don't continue to make any money. The person who did overtime gets a raise (i.e gained more xp) the person who did not do extra work should not expect a reward.

The same concept should apply here. but instead everyone wants to be spoon fed. I don't understand why people think they deserve the same reward without putting in the same amount of effort.

I simply cannot stand the mindset of being held by your hand...

Yep I agree spend ten times the time playing, get ten times the reward.

Thing is, your conveniently missing the other part if that. Play for 10 times as much time, pay ten times as much to do it! Somehow I guess you don't want that part of representational play times to be applied.

It would be fair if you play for ten hours a week, you sub stays as $15. You play for fourty hours, your sub should be $60.

If you can't accept or counter that with a decent business reason, you can't really champion a system that benefits those with no real life responsibilities over those that do have them.

It's not going to be long until the media starts putting pressure on game devs to be socially responsible and stop rewarding unhealthy amounts of game time.

And then everyone would cry that people with more time AND money have an advantage of them. And that it's a p2w model. Because it would be true. And it's ridiculous.

Some of you guys need to get out of theoryland and just accept the fact that there will always be better players, players with more time, etc etc who will have a leg up on you.

The media has already started making a thing about "video game addiction" along with every other thing it makes issues out of that most people could give a flying flip about. Nobody with half a brain cares what the media says about most things.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Audigy wrote: »

I know WOW works in a different way and a brand new level 90 is as strong as a 2 years old level 90 - but gladly this isn't how ESO works.

Totally untrue .. you have to resort to lying now to find a way to bash WOW?

/sad

Ninnghizhidda

rekina wrote: »

And by your "the older characters should be advanced than newer characters because that's how it works in real life" logic you should be still advancing your strength, agility and intelligence in your 90s. One of the most stupid argument ever I've seen. What more making me frustrated is the fact that you don't see how the logic is bad.

It is probably somewhat off topic, but since I just read this comment, I would also like to add a little comment of mine.

"γηράσκω δ᾽ αἰεὶ πολλὰ διδασκόμενος."
Translated roughly to: "I grow old always learning many things."
Source: Solon the Athenian, a widely and highly regarded wise man of Ancient Greece.

To which I would also personally add: maybe enough already with the "useless old farts" and "awesome blazing youth" mentalities.

Good, now back to "mindless" gaming / MMOing.

Kronosphere

i dont even acknowledge the other side of this argument as being logical or correct in any way. what are you guys even asking? do u want to log in 1 min a day and be on par with someone who plays more? do u want there to be no progression because you cant be bothered? do you want everything hand fed cuz u are too dumb to figure things out yourselve or actually put some effort into something? you are the reason morrowind is still much more fun and immersive and awesome than the latter games. you are literally killing gaming, perhaps candy crush on your ipad is more what u want.

at the end of the day most of this seems like jealousy and like "i cant get this easily but that person who worked for it got XYZ and i dont have it therefore i should have it or no one should". yes some things in pvp may be contrary to that but the mindset is of a spoiled 5 year old child who has been given everything thier whole life and is entitled as all hell.

tldr stop ruining my games and dumbing them down. u are killing the longeivity of this industry

Fleymark

Kronosphere wrote: »

i dont even acknowledge the other side of this argument as being logical or correct in any way. what are you guys even asking? do u want to log in 1 min a day and be on par with someone who plays more? do u want there to be no progression because you cant be bothered? do you want everything hand fed cuz u are too dumb to figure things out yourselve or actually put some effort into something? you are the reason morrowind is still much more fun and immersive and awesome than the latter games. you are literally killing gaming, guy play candy crush on your ipad.

at the end of the day most of this seems like jealousy and like "i cant get this easily but that person who worked for it got XYZ and i dont have it therefore i should have it or no one should". yes some things in pvp may be contrary to that but the mindset is of a spoiled 5 year old child who has been given everything thier whole life and is entitled as all hell.

tldr stop ruining my games and dumbing them down. u are killing the longeivity of this industry

Sadly, it sounds like this is exactly what they are saying.

And it would appear that one poster in particular is bringing "social responsibility" into it. Lol. Yes, it's bad for society at large for there to be challenge, time sinks, and appropriate rewards in games. And given the mindset and mo of a particular brand of politics these days, I wouldn't be shocked to learn they were actually serious.

I weep for the future.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Kronosphere wrote: »

at the end of the day most of this seems like jealousy and like "i cant get this easily but that person who worked for it got XYZ and i dont have it therefore i should have it or no one should".

Or, put another way, why should the unemployed and students get advantages in an MMO while those who work for a living and have a real life can't play 24/7?

See, I can be an ass too!

Ojustaboo

SirJesto wrote: »

Not sure if this was mentioned yet but in the video Paul said the champion points can be spent account wide on any character so you could in theory make a lower level alt have some pretty cool abilities for his level.

Paul said they are account wide for level 50 and above characters

Listen from 32:25 http://youtu.be/u0UUsPRdY5k

Hilgara

Ojustaboo wrote: »

SirJesto wrote: »

Not sure if this was mentioned yet but in the video Paul said the champion points can be spent account wide on any character so you could in theory make a lower level alt have some pretty cool abilities for his level.

Paul said they are account wide for level 50 characters

I believe the cp can only be used post lvl 50

Ojustaboo

Hilgara wrote: »

Ojustaboo wrote: »

SirJesto wrote: »

Not sure if this was mentioned yet but in the video Paul said the champion points can be spent account wide on any character so you could in theory make a lower level alt have some pretty cool abilities for his level.

Paul said they are account wide for level 50 characters

I believe the cp can only be used post lvl 50

yep, edited my post to make what I meant clearer and included the source

Guppet

Fleymark wrote: »

Kronosphere wrote: »

i dont even acknowledge the other side of this argument as being logical or correct in any way. what are you guys even asking? do u want to log in 1 min a day and be on par with someone who plays more? do u want there to be no progression because you cant be bothered? do you want everything hand fed cuz u are too dumb to figure things out yourselve or actually put some effort into something? you are the reason morrowind is still much more fun and immersive and awesome than the latter games. you are literally killing gaming, guy play candy crush on your ipad.

at the end of the day most of this seems like jealousy and like "i cant get this easily but that person who worked for it got XYZ and i dont have it therefore i should have it or no one should". yes some things in pvp may be contrary to that but the mindset is of a spoiled 5 year old child who has been given everything thier whole life and is entitled as all hell.

tldr stop ruining my games and dumbing them down. u are killing the longeivity of this industry

Sadly, it sounds like this is exactly what they are saying.

And it would appear that one poster in particular is bringing "social responsibility" into it. Lol. Yes, it's bad for society at large for there to be challenge, time sinks, and appropriate rewards in games. And given the mindset and mo of a particular brand of politics these days, I wouldn't be shocked to learn they were actually serious.

I weep for the future.

Social responsibility has nothing to do with game difficulty. I have never even claimed that, so keep pulling stuff out your bum.

I'm on about the industry as a whole and how it overly rewards excessive (I did not say reasonable) amounts of gameplay. I'm not exactly what I'd call casual myself.

This system will make that worse, if there is no cap at all some will play until it destroys their lives. It's obviously not every one, it's a minority, but the fact is people like that do exist and games developers ignore it.

Heck I'd be happy if there was a system in place that just let you report to the GM's that you were concerned that someone was overly addicted, then they could monitor.

And to the people saying don't restrict me. No addict will admit the problem till it's too late, in the vast majority of circumstances.

You may think I'm crazy, but you all could imagine a law like this being passed. Things needs to be put in place to protect the most vulnerable in society, even if the average person doesn't need it.

Hilgara

Guppet wrote: »

This system will make that worse, if there is no cap at all some will play until it destroys their lives. .

Its called Darwinism. These people need removed from the gene pool. its the natural order of things

Mondo

Dear Zenimax i suck with my VR1 against real good players at V12 and now they get even better because they play this game! I only want go on kill 300 ppl and go off with no gear and skill. Could you pls stop let them get better because i cant fill this gap

Guppet

Hilgara wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

This system will make that worse, if there is no cap at all some will play until it destroys their lives. .

Its called Darwinism. These people need removed from the gene pool. its the natural order of things

You have clearly never known anyone with any metal issues, good for you. I suppose you should remove all safety labels and lets the worlds problems solve themselves huh?

indytims_ESO

I am a middle-of-the-road player, and I think the Champ system has potential, even if that means there will be thousands of people constantly having characters better than mine.

Time invested -should- equal some sort of benefit to show for it (assuming it was time well-spent, and not time sitting AFK or something).

The 'gap' between the bottom-tier players and the upper-tier 'uber' players will always be increasing. That's how it goes. If Zeni screws with that and enforces a fake ceiling, they will lose subs. The level-limits already enforce a sort of 'false ceiling' - characters can't go to, say, level 200 for example (or there would already be people there, I assure you).

But sadly, that gap must continually advance at -some- sort of pace, or again, end-gamers will drop out, and Zeni wants to give those folks reasons to hang around to pay their subs. And ultimately, that's what the Champion system is about. It's obvious the -current- VR system is flawed, and there's been a ton of documented unhappiness with it. The Champion system is Zeni's way of trying to address that.

AshySamurai

I dont know noticed anyoneone that or not but if Paul said that there are a bonus xp.

http://youtu.be/aYbl5B8R9-E

Start watching from 42-30. I cant say for 100% sure that he says all that only about phase 2 or a whole system (but IMO he meant all system).

TBH 4 pages - TL;DR and maybe someone already post it here. In that case - sorry for repeating.

darkmadman187

Guppet wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

Kronosphere wrote: »

i dont even acknowledge the other side of this argument as being logical or correct in any way. what are you guys even asking? do u want to log in 1 min a day and be on par with someone who plays more? do u want there to be no progression because you cant be bothered? do you want everything hand fed cuz u are too dumb to figure things out yourselve or actually put some effort into something? you are the reason morrowind is still much more fun and immersive and awesome than the latter games. you are literally killing gaming, guy play candy crush on your ipad.

at the end of the day most of this seems like jealousy and like "i cant get this easily but that person who worked for it got XYZ and i dont have it therefore i should have it or no one should". yes some things in pvp may be contrary to that but the mindset is of a spoiled 5 year old child who has been given everything thier whole life and is entitled as all hell.

tldr stop ruining my games and dumbing them down. u are killing the longeivity of this industry

Sadly, it sounds like this is exactly what they are saying.

And it would appear that one poster in particular is bringing "social responsibility" into it. Lol. Yes, it's bad for society at large for there to be challenge, time sinks, and appropriate rewards in games. And given the mindset and mo of a particular brand of politics these days, I wouldn't be shocked to learn they were actually serious.

I weep for the future.

Social responsibility has nothing to do with game difficulty. I have never even claimed that, so keep pulling stuff out your bum.

I'm on about the industry as a whole and how it overly rewards excessive (I did not say reasonable) amounts of gameplay. I'm not exactly what I'd call casual myself.

This system will make that worse, if there is no cap at all some will play until it destroys their lives. It's obviously not every one, it's a minority, but the fact is people like that do exist and games developers ignore it.

Heck I'd be happy if there was a system in place that just let you report to the GM's that you were concerned that someone was overly addicted, then they could monitor.

And to the people saying don't restrict me. No addict will admit the problem till it's too late, in the vast majority of circumstances.

You may think I'm crazy, but you all could imagine a law like this being passed. Things needs to be put in place to protect the most vulnerable in society, even if the average person doesn't need it.

These people are no more vulnerable than me or you are the difference is they have chosen to become addicted, I'm sorry but that's not my problem, not the developers problem, it is THEIR problem if people cannot control themselves with addiction DON'T do something that you will get addicted to.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO

Guppet wrote: »

You may think I'm crazy, but you all could imagine a law like this being passed. Things needs to be put in place to protect the most vulnerable in society, even if the average person doesn't need it.

This is why society is in such a mess these days .. no one is expected to take personal responsibility for their own actions any more.

Kronosphere

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Kronosphere wrote: »

at the end of the day most of this seems like jealousy and like "i cant get this easily but that person who worked for it got XYZ and i dont have it therefore i should have it or no one should".

Or, put another way, why should the unemployed and students get advantages in an MMO while those who work for a living and have a real life can't play 24/7?

See, I can be an ass too!

the two are unrelated. what a silly thing u just said lol. why cant i be as good at being as trained electricians and get payed the same as them while i work an office job. see i can say totally dumb and irrelevant things as well

kitsinni

We need a larger player gap honeslty. The whole level to 50 then grind to V12 then everyone gets identical gear is boring and stupid.

ferzalrwb17_ESO

I'd rather a competitive, inclusive game than one where I win by grind. People hate the pay to win slogan but I also hate the grind to win one. There's zero skill involved in both methods. They both require work (work outside the game for money or work inside the game to grind).

There's a reason players do cheesey stuff like emperor exploiting (let's call it what it is). They're the ones that want it all and want it now. They don't want to earn their wins. They want to exploit them. If you look around Tamriel you will see a former Emperor around every corner. Most people, it's clear, will look for any tiny advantage to create an unfair fight in PvP or to faceroll PvE endgame content (and then whine about how easy it is). Champion points will be yet another way to do this and those players will be out exploiting these points before ZOS can say "oh.. we didn't intend that".

Kronosphere

Guppet wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

Kronosphere wrote: »

i dont even acknowledge the other side of this argument as being logical or correct in any way. what are you guys even asking? do u want to log in 1 min a day and be on par with someone who plays more? do u want there to be no progression because you cant be bothered? do you want everything hand fed cuz u are too dumb to figure things out yourselve or actually put some effort into something? you are the reason morrowind is still much more fun and immersive and awesome than the latter games. you are literally killing gaming, guy play candy crush on your ipad.

at the end of the day most of this seems like jealousy and like "i cant get this easily but that person who worked for it got XYZ and i dont have it therefore i should have it or no one should". yes some things in pvp may be contrary to that but the mindset is of a spoiled 5 year old child who has been given everything thier whole life and is entitled as all hell.

tldr stop ruining my games and dumbing them down. u are killing the longeivity of this industry

Sadly, it sounds like this is exactly what they are saying.

And it would appear that one poster in particular is bringing "social responsibility" into it. Lol. Yes, it's bad for society at large for there to be challenge, time sinks, and appropriate rewards in games. And given the mindset and mo of a particular brand of politics these days, I wouldn't be shocked to learn they were actually serious.

I weep for the future.

Social responsibility has nothing to do with game difficulty. I have never even claimed that, so keep pulling stuff out your bum.

I'm on about the industry as a whole and how it overly rewards excessive (I did not say reasonable) amounts of gameplay. I'm not exactly what I'd call casual myself.

This system will make that worse, if there is no cap at all some will play until it destroys their lives. It's obviously not every one, it's a minority, but the fact is people like that do exist and games developers ignore it.

Heck I'd be happy if there was a system in place that just let you report to the GM's that you were concerned that someone was overly addicted, then they could monitor.

And to the people saying don't restrict me. No addict will admit the problem till it's too late, in the vast majority of circumstances.

You may think I'm crazy, but you all could imagine a law like this being passed. Things needs to be put in place to protect the most vulnerable in society, even if the average person doesn't need it.

ok sure if there was no limit and the hardcores could literally grind away there forever, then become insanely godlike, that indeed would be horrible. i am just assuming there is 100% a hard limit (maybe it increases on patches etc) all im saying is a player of equal skill exactly but one plays less the one who plays more still should (just) win (not faceroll tho) on the other hand a smart player who plays moderatley should beat a derp player who plays alot assuming its not level 40 vs vr12. i perceive your method as catering to soccer mums and being very simple and no challenge and i hate this and am worried about it. im not super hardcore either, i have my splurges sure but im not one of those hardcore levelers who skip everything for max uber proness, i despise these people but in a way i enjoy saying "yeah ill be as good as those in a while" and when i get there i feel good. and i like that.

The_Sadist

I have read through most of this thread and I'm relatively confused.

This is an MMO, it's competitive, it's time consuming and you get out what you put in. Most if not all MMO's work like this, the casual gamer shouldn't be as powerful as the individual who treats the game like a second job. The casual gamer shouldn't expect to be and really shouldn't complain because someone is willing to put more time into the game and progress their characters at a faster rate. This 'gap' might occur, but it might be a capped system or the benefits might be minute at best, who knows?

Go play EVE online, players who have been playing for years will completely destroy you. The same is true for most, if not all, MMO's. There's no point damning a system which hasn't even been fully explored / explained just yet. Feel free to complain about bugs and uncalled for nerfs (looking at you Storm Atronach), but I don't understand why there's so much outrage over nothing. If you're a casual gamer that's cool, but I can't take posts like this seriously, much like individuals complaining about vampires ruining their immersion and all that jazz.

Logan9a

FunkyBudda wrote: »

exactly, so instead of players' skills, people with more time put into the account are superior. And ESO apologists are saying this game is different than other MMOs, lol.

If you don't, what is the point of putting more time into things? Why even have leveling?

Why not just start with a finished character?