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Immersion: Are you playing the same game as me?
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GnatB✭✭✭✭Talking about immersion and removing UI elements, and then playing in 3rd person = fail. 3rd person is, as always will be, far more immersion breaking than ANY amount of on-screen UI.
Unfortunately, due to the mechanics of the game, (and, of course, other players playing in 3rd person) To actually play immersed, IMO, the game actually needs an additional UI element it's fundamentally lacking, and as far as I'm aware, no mod can implement. It needs a short range radar when you're in 1st person mode. Something that would give those playing in immersive 1st person mode the same amount of information about enemy location/skill effect locations that somebody playing in zoomed out 3rd person has available. Currently, due to lack of a radar, unless I'm playing a ranged character I feel like I'm fighting with both hands tied behind my back if I actually want to play immersed in the game.
And yes, I'm one of those that feel Morrowind should never have implemented a 3rd person mode for the console kiddies. TES should have remained 1st person only. And ESO should *never* have been built around primarily playing in 3rd person, as it fairly obviously has been. There are enough 3rd person RPG's, don't really need another.Achievements Suck0 -
GnatB✭✭✭✭NakedSnake wrote: »No, being more knowledgeable is always beneficial.
True. BEING more knowledgable is always better, but presenting more information isn't. There is such a thing as information overload. Presenting too much information to a user at once can render the all the information unuseable, and thus worthless.
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GnatB✭✭✭✭Just to pipe in again, the text vs object argument is a poor example.
It may be faster to look at a car and think "hey that's a car" than it is to read the text and understand that's a car.
However it's far easier to look at a number and see that number is bigger than a different number than it is to see the enemy health bar moved 25 pixels instead of 20 pixels, unless you're sticking postit notes on your screen or something in order to measure the distances the healthbar moved for the two skills.
(Note: I do have the floaty numbers, but I must admit I don't really pay attention to the actual numbers, they really aren't all that important to me. It's more about whether my pets are actually doing anything, or if they've gotten bugged and need to be resummoned.)Achievements Suck0 -
NakedSnake✭✭✭
That is not entirely accurate as an individuals ability to interpret information does not diminish the utility of that information.NakedSnake wrote: »No, being more knowledgeable is always beneficial.
True. BEING more knowledgable is always better, but presenting more information isn't. There is such a thing as information overload. Presenting too much information to a user at once can render the all the information unuseable, and thus worthless.
"Brilliant! Why is it that the people with the most ridiculous ideas are always the ones who are most certain of them?"0 -
SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭Talking about immersion and removing UI elements, and then playing in 3rd person = fail. 3rd person is, as always will be, far more immersion breaking than ANY amount of on-screen UI.
Maybe for YOU. This is just an opinion. I've played many games in third person, and have heard many people argue that the third person view has certain advantages which add to immersion due to the limited field of view in first person not accounting for real life peripheral vision. In first person, you can barely see your hands, where as IRL you can look down and see your whole body. Besides that, immersion doesn't just have to involve pretending you are the character. A person can become immersed in a world by watching a character and controlling their actions. The only thing that failed was your narrow perspective.Edited by SFBryan18 on July 17, 2014 10:28PM0 -
Zorrashi✭✭✭✭✭I have no add-ons, but that's mostly cause I'm too lazy. My screen is only given what the game itself provides.
To me, at least, most add-ons simply give you gauges and numbers, which does not appeal to me in the least. I don't care if it tells me buffs, critical landing or whatnot. I just want to look at the game and play my way; which involves not looking at percentages and other thingys.
But that's just me.0 -
GnatB✭✭✭✭Knootewoot wrote: »Maybe for YOU. This is just an opinion. I've played many games in third person, and have heard many people argue that the third person view has certain advantages which add to immersion due to the limited field of view in first person not accounting for real life peripheral vision. In first person, you can barely see your hands, where as IRL you can look down and see your whole body. Besides that, immersion doesn't just have to involve pretending you are the character. A person can become immersed in a world by watching a character and controlling their actions. The only thing that failed was your narrow perspective.
Then those people arguing third person is more "immersing" just don't want to give up gameplay advantages for the sake of immersion, and are are making up excuses to do so. Going from 100 to 60 degree (or thereabouts) field of view isn't nearly as extreme as being able to literally see behind your back. And sure, I'm not arguing 3rd person doesn't have gameplay advantages. It definitely does. I even said I'd like there to be a radar so first person folks are at least on somewhat of a more level playing field with those in 3rd, though preferably the game would have been 1st person so the radar would have been unnecessary. But sorry, in real life you have big blind spots. Just like in first person.
And yeah, in real life you have to look down to see your body. At least in a first person game you have to look down to see where your body would be. (and in some games, your body is actually there) It isn't simply there on screen when you're looking straight ahead.
And sorry, but I'd have to say immersion in a world actually IS you feeling you're in the world. (And yes, I am slightly disagreeing with all those "immersed in the numbers" folks. That may be immersed in the gamePLAY, but I'd argue it isn't immersed in the world by any stretch of the terminology.)
When you immerse yourself in a culture, you don't sit outside it watching it, you actually become a member of the culture. When you immerse yourself in a role, you BECOME the role.
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SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭And sorry, but I'd have to say immersion in a world actually IS you feeling you're in the world. (And yes, I am slightly disagreeing with all those "immersed in the numbers" folks. That may be immersed in the gamePLAY, but I'd argue it isn't immersed in the world by any stretch of the terminology.)
When you immerse yourself in a culture, you don't sit outside it watching it, you actually become a member of the culture. When you immerse yourself in a role, you BECOME the role.
Wrong. Your opinion of immersion does not dictate what the word means. It's very possible to become immersed in a story without the need to be there. As someone staring at a screen, you should already know this.
BTW, do you make female characters, and then play in first person and pretend you are a woman? Just curious.Edited by SFBryan18 on July 18, 2014 3:52AM1 -
NakedSnake✭✭✭It would be interesting to know how many of you have ever been immersed in a book."Brilliant! Why is it that the people with the most ridiculous ideas are always the ones who are most certain of them?"1
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SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭NakedSnake wrote: »It would be interesting to know how many of you have ever been immersed in a book.
Not me, but I have a very bad habit of becoming immersed in video game forums. :P1 -
yiasemi✭✭✭✭NakedSnake wrote: »It would be interesting to know how many of you have ever been immersed in a book.
Only the blood of virgins to keep my skin supple and youthful. You volunteering?1 -
MercyKilling✭✭✭✭✭NakedSnake wrote: »It would be interesting to know how many of you have ever been immersed in a book.
Me. No UI there. No speech bubbles or name plates. No gear scores.
It's bliss. Pure and utter bliss, I tell you.I am not spending a single penny on the game until changes are made to the game that I want to see.
1) Remove having to be in a guild to sell items to other players at a kiosk.
2) Cosmetic modding for armor and clothing.
3) Difficulty slider.
4) Fully customizable player housing that isn't tied to anything in the game other than having the correct resources and enough gold to build. Don't tie it to PvP, guild membership, or anything at all. Oh, make it instanced so as not to take up world map space, too. Zeni screwed this one up already.
Any /one/ of these things implemented would get me spending again, maybe even subbing.1 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »No. You think you see. You have impressions not data. You cannot see if a skill is doing only 15 out of 20 damage or the extra +5 from a passive isn't working in the middle of combat. You cannot see, in the middle of a PvP ruck if all your mitigation worked against a sneak attack while you're fighting someone else, unless you're some kind of android.
But I don't care either way so long as you're having fun.
I'm happy for people to use any legal add-on they want, or not.
Look, don't tell me what I see. You don't know what you're talking about. You're spewing nonsense about stats and crap, but you're probably terrible at the game. Why? Because damage stats do not always equal skill.
Yea, of course you do. You're super-human.
And by the way - +10 for the mature response. Really good. Really good.
Enjoy your 14th birthday when it comes.
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SFBryan18✭✭✭✭✭
✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »No. You think you see. You have impressions not data. You cannot see if a skill is doing only 15 out of 20 damage or the extra +5 from a passive isn't working in the middle of combat. You cannot see, in the middle of a PvP ruck if all your mitigation worked against a sneak attack while you're fighting someone else, unless you're some kind of android.
But I don't care either way so long as you're having fun.
I'm happy for people to use any legal add-on they want, or not.
Look, don't tell me what I see. You don't know what you're talking about. You're spewing nonsense about stats and crap, but you're probably terrible at the game. Why? Because damage stats do not always equal skill.
Yea, of course you do. You're super-human.
And by the way - +10 for the mature response. Really good. Really good.
Enjoy your 14th birthday when it comes.
Oh, ok. You said I am 13 so I guess you win the argument. Wow, you're so clever.0 -
NakedSnake✭✭✭NakedSnake wrote: »It would be interesting to know how many of you have ever been immersed in a book.
Only the blood of virgins to keep my skin supple and youthful. You volunteering?
Way too much info there bud."Brilliant! Why is it that the people with the most ridiculous ideas are always the ones who are most certain of them?"0 -
yiasemi✭✭✭✭
Curses, next time i will be more....subtle in my approach....(said with cheesy Romanian accent).NakedSnake wrote: »NakedSnake wrote: »It would be interesting to know how many of you have ever been immersed in a book.
Only the blood of virgins to keep my skin supple and youthful. You volunteering?
Way too much info there bud.
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Allyah✭✭✭
And if you're really lucky, no one telling you it's faster to just watch the movie.MercyKilling wrote: »NakedSnake wrote: »It would be interesting to know how many of you have ever been immersed in a book.
Me. No UI there. No speech bubbles or name plates. No gear scores.
It's bliss. Pure and utter bliss, I tell you.
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