Immersion: Are you playing the same game as me?

Tankqull

i dont care about immersion but even though i want the most minimalistic ui available that provides all informations, saddly - its not the stock ui as it does not provide any worthwhile information at all.

NakedSnake

tankqullb16_ESO wrote: »

i dont care about immersion but even though i want the most minimalistic ui available that provides all informations, saddly - its not the stock ui as it does not provide any worthwhile information at all.

Agreed. Minimalist should not constitute a lack of information.

Arsenic_Touch

Inigo Montoya would like a word with you. You use the word immersion when you should be using the word minimalist. The UI has really nothing to do with immersion.

Immersion is being able to interact with your environment and game realistically. This game is lacking a lot of immersion. The environment doesn't react to your character, IE you can walk through fireplaces and other sources of fire without taking damage. No footprints, no mud from running from water to dirt, no dust when you're running NPCS do not react properly to your race/circumstances. The environment can't really me interacted with. Combat isn't immersive either. The list goes on.

So like I said before the word you're searching for is minimalist, not immersion.

emeraldbay

NakedSnake wrote: »

What you don't seem to understand is that having more information is always more effective.

Always? No. If it helps you, that's all well and good, but don't speak for other people. If I clogged my UI with all those numbers, I'd be even worse off than I am without them. All that information just doesn't fit my play style, and foregoing the numbers doesn't affect my ability to perform well.

Tannakaobi

Two things where ESO stands out for me from any other mmo.

UI
Combat

I use five or six Addons, but nothing that adds to the UI unless I press a button to call the info up. Such as recount. I'm not sure if immersion is the right word, I guess it's down to the player. Some people like the numbers and get immersed that way. Which is fine, I'm like you. The more that can be stripped away the better. I like to kook at the detail on screen.

Snit

I like the immersive design decisions here, such as the fact that healers can look at the gameworld, not a just UI grid off to the left

I also like the fact that it's add-on friendly. People who require a more traditional MMO UI can, to a large extent, recreate what they like. It's an excellent and flexible design.

NakedSnake

emeraldbay wrote: »

NakedSnake wrote: »

What you don't seem to understand is that having more information is always more effective.

Always? No. If it helps you, that's all well and good, but don't speak for other people. If I clogged my UI with all those numbers, I'd be even worse off than I am without them. All that information just doesn't fit my play style, and foregoing the numbers doesn't affect my ability to perform well.

No, being more knowledgeable is always beneficial. There is nothing wrong with finding the right balance for you're play style but knowledge is power and still being effective with a lack there of does not mean that you are as effective as you could be with it.
If it were possible to have all the information and still maintain your minimalist UI would you still reject it?

my UI

Blackwidow

NakedSnake wrote: »

Perhaps but not much more if you are not sure of what your skills passives buffs and debuffs are actually doing. *see above quote*

It's called player skill, learning what works and does not work by playing the game.

Sure, you may have a slightly higher dps, because you calculate everything, but that does not mean I can't beat you in a fight.

Saying it is just smashing buttons and hoping for the best is kind of insulting, no?

NakedSnake

At the end of the day when you beat me, I will know exactly why I lost and you will only be able to say you won due to skillz.

DanteVFenris

I just play the game as is, never felt the need to add a mod.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

Nearly all of you seem to clog the view with your sorry asses so most of this discussion means very little.

Immersion while watching yourself from behind is impossible for me. I can deal with some numbers celebrating my prowess, or lack thereof, but I need first person.

SFBryan18

Meh, I always felt immersed by watching the character as if I was watching a movie. To me, seeing the character interact is like watching an action hero in a movie. I make choices for this hero and watch those choices unfold. In a sense, I've always loved playing a game as if it were a movie that I controlled. The first person view feels awkward for some reason. Don't get me wrong though, I love first person shooters for the competition since third person always lets players see around corners while camping.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

Yeah, I'm not much of a movie guy. Never have been. I see you recommend a cheat addon among some others. Does that go with the movie fantasy thing?

I'm also not into the hero thing. It's why so many western games suck so badly. Cough ... COD etc. My lead now is a vampire witch. She is evil. I play her as an "eye of the queen", I am not disloyal, but her methods are not those of a hero. My other chars are just chars in a world I play in, none are heroes, but none of them are evil.

Immersion ... ROTFLMFAO.

SFBryan18

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

I see you recommend a cheat addon among some others. Does that go with the movie fantasy thing?

Skyshards, Lorebooks, and Treasure Maps? That's just to save time. Everything else in the game is marked on the map for you. Visual immersion is not the same as story immersion. In my characters story, these locations were already known and marked on his map, just like if you were to buy a map at a gas station to know where every location was in your town, state, or country.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

SFBryan18 wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

I see you recommend a cheat addon among some others. Does that go with the movie fantasy thing?

Skyshards, Lorebooks, and Treasure Maps? That's just to save time. Everything else in the game is marked on the map for you. Visual immersion is not the same as story immersion. In my characters story, these locations were already known and marked on his map.

So any cheat is OK then. Well seeing it's your story, you can make up anything you want as an explanation for anything you want.

Maybe too far, but you get my point I hope.

I get lost in my games, always have, perhaps it's the first person. Visual immersion is kinda what the thread is about though.

SFBryan18

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

I see you recommend a cheat addon among some others. Does that go with the movie fantasy thing?

Skyshards, Lorebooks, and Treasure Maps? That's just to save time. Everything else in the game is marked on the map for you. Visual immersion is not the same as story immersion. In my characters story, these locations were already known and marked on his map.

So any cheat is OK then. Well seeing it's your story, you can make up anything you want as an explanation for anything you want.

Maybe too far, but you get my point I hope.

I get lost in my games, always have, perhaps it's the first person. Visual immersion is kinda what the thread is about though.

If they were considered cheating, they would not be allowed. Marked locations are like if you were to buy a players guide.. They give you no advantage over other players except for saving time.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

Well we have answered the question, No.

NakedSnake

SFBryan18 wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

I see you recommend a cheat addon among some others. Does that go with the movie fantasy thing?

Skyshards, Lorebooks, and Treasure Maps? That's just to save time. Everything else in the game is marked on the map for you. Visual immersion is not the same as story immersion. In my characters story, these locations were already known and marked on his map.

So any cheat is OK then. Well seeing it's your story, you can make up anything you want as an explanation for anything you want.

Maybe too far, but you get my point I hope.

I get lost in my games, always have, perhaps it's the first person. Visual immersion is kinda what the thread is about though.

If they were considered cheating, they would not be allowed. Marked locations are like if you were to buy a players guide.. They give you no advantage over other players except for saving time.

They do give you an advantage as you wont have to fumble around looking for them all over again on an alt wasting precious time and resources you could be spending advancing. Just as numbers keep us from guesstimating what's actually happening during gameplay saving time by accurately revealing whatever blocks your progression.
Looks like more knowledge is better than none.

SFBryan18

NakedSnake wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

I see you recommend a cheat addon among some others. Does that go with the movie fantasy thing?

Skyshards, Lorebooks, and Treasure Maps? That's just to save time. Everything else in the game is marked on the map for you. Visual immersion is not the same as story immersion. In my characters story, these locations were already known and marked on his map.

So any cheat is OK then. Well seeing it's your story, you can make up anything you want as an explanation for anything you want.

Maybe too far, but you get my point I hope.

I get lost in my games, always have, perhaps it's the first person. Visual immersion is kinda what the thread is about though.

If they were considered cheating, they would not be allowed. Marked locations are like if you were to buy a players guide.. They give you no advantage over other players except for saving time.

They do give you an advantage as you wont have to fumble around looking for them all over again on an alt wasting precious time. Just as numbers keep us from guesstimating what's actually happening during gameplay saving time by accurately revealing whatever blocks your progression.
Looks like more knowledge is better than none.

The advantage of not wasting time does not fill my screen with artificial readouts while I'm actually playing.

Allyah

NakedSnake wrote: »

Allyah wrote: »

What's funny is mechanics and combat exist whether you can see them on your UI or not.

He never said he played it because it was like Skyrim. He said he enjoyed the way it played.

There's this new thing called understanding concepts. Know what your skill does and how it works with others and you won't need a number to use it properly.

I guess we're the same (minus your illogical statements) because I don't really understand the appeal of looking at numbers to determine when I need to do something or who I should group with in a game.

Immersion isn't about imagining yourself in the game world. It is about being invested in what you are doing in the game. If that's learning the game through numbers for you, fine. But I think many people like learning the game through playing it.

What you don't seem to understand is that having more information is always more effective. People who like to have information displayed to them are not solely learning the game through numbers as you suggest but learn the game exactly the same way someone without numbers does. We simply prefer to decrease the learning curve by correlating and substantiating what we observe while "playing it".

And, on the page directly before this one....

Allyah wrote: »

Yes. This is something I believe comes down to preference. You can usually figure this stuff out by casting and looking at your character screen(s). Most of the time, it is just found more quickly by looking at numbers.

Maybe you're right though. I probably don't understand.

NakedSnake

Like I said before if you are easily distracted it is a personal hangup of your own but immersion is no more important to you than it is to me and having as little information on your screen does not prove otherwise.

SFBryan18

For me, the game looks more realistic with less artificial stuff in it. That's how I immerse myself, by making the world look as realistic as possible. Perhaps there are other perspectives, which is why I asked for other opinions.

Allyah

@SFBryan18‌
I believe he was talking to me. Hard to tell, though, since he didn't bother to add an @ sign or quote anything.

@NakedSnake‌
And I never said otherwise. Perhaps it's time for you to move on to people who are making such arguments.

SFBryan18

K

Allyah

@SFBryan18‌
Oh, the irony.

SFBryan18

So far, I have realized from this thread that visual immersion is only one aspect of immersion in general. I like visual immersion. That's me. Doesn't mean I'm right or wrong, it's just an opinion. The purpose of the thread was to get other opinions of immersion, which seems to have been more successful than I originally had anticipated. TBQH, I just wanted to show off that awesome screenshot. :P

poodlemasterb16_ESO

SFBryan18 wrote: »

So far, I have realized from this thread that visual immersion is only one aspect of immersion in general. I like visual immersion. That's me. Doesn't mean I'm right or wrong, it's just an opinion. The purpose of the thread was to get other opinions of immersion, which seems to have been more successful than I originally had anticipated. TBQH, I just wanted to show off that awesome screenshot. :P

Not really. You like story immersion. Visual immersion is something us first person guys do. You are playing with dolls.

Allyah

SFBryan18 wrote: »

So far, I have realized from this thread that visual immersion is only one aspect of immersion in general. I like visual immersion. That's me. Doesn't mean I'm right or wrong, it's just an opinion. The purpose of the thread was to get other opinions of immersion, which seems to have been more successful than I originally had anticipated. TBQH, I just wanted to show off that awesome screenshot. :P

True enough on the aspects of immersion. I prefer a minimalist UI, as well. I could see there being games that are heaven for people who like to see every little detail about everything going on but, IMO, ESO isn't the best choice of game for that type of gameplay.

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

So far, I have realized from this thread that visual immersion is only one aspect of immersion in general. I like visual immersion. That's me. Doesn't mean I'm right or wrong, it's just an opinion. The purpose of the thread was to get other opinions of immersion, which seems to have been more successful than I originally had anticipated. TBQH, I just wanted to show off that awesome screenshot. :P

Not really. You like story immersion. Visual immersion is something us first person guys do. You are playing with dolls.

Limiting UI would still fall under visual immersion. If you were in 1st person and your screen was covered in bars and numbers would you really consider yourself immersed in the gameplay?

NakedSnake

@Allyah‌ Clearly you still don't.
My response was obviously directed at the OP not you but I see what you did there.

SFBryan18 wrote: »

So far, I have realized from this thread that visual immersion is only one aspect of immersion in general. I like visual immersion. That's me. Doesn't mean I'm right or wrong, it's just an opinion. The purpose of the thread was to get other opinions of immersion, which seems to have been more successful than I originally had anticipated. TBQH, I just wanted to show off that awesome screenshot. :P

At least the OP got it.

Allyah

NakedSnake wrote: »

@Allyah‌ Clearly you still don't.
My response was obviously directed at the OP not you but I see what you did there.

Sure. Let me know what part I'm not understanding. 'Cause my knowing is coming from, I don't know, knowing my own thoughts and reinforced by what I posted.

You: We simply prefer to decrease the learning curve by correlating and substantiating what we observe while "playing it".
Me: Most of the time, it is just found more quickly by looking at numbers.

Keep trying. I'm pretty sure you'll at least come close to pulling yourself out of the hole you're digging. Or you could just concede that you jumped the gun on your response to me and save yourself the effort.

And yes, I responded to an un-directed response. I sure hope you could see what I did. You'd have to be pretty obtuse to not.