I look at it like this the vet content ie playing in the other factions should be nothing more then just like as when you went 1-50 a little harder yes but all the same scale 1,2,3,4,5, not 1,5,10 with that said I myself consider the real vet content in doing the dungeons, trials, and raids once they add them all and get a nice amunt of them but I do fell they should mix it up a little and instead of following the normal hey this new place drops this gear and then this next place drops this better gear as most you wow players know it as tiers I think they should make it so that the really good stuff drops from all of them equally that way the older content does not become old unused and obsolete... so basically every time they add new gear and stuff with new content they should also add that same stuff to the older content aswell keeping the older stuff jut as viable and spicing it up with new passages and bosses. basically add new stuff but then update the old to keep it fresh and exciting..one of the worst things ive found in many mmos is when the new content come outs the old gets left behind and becomes a wasteland and then the new players just rush and grind to the new content

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Lunerdog wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Lunerdog wrote: »

gamma71 wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

what a stupid poll. The entire premise assumes that somehow having trash mobs be a bit easier means you automatically will be sub standard at end game . Which of course is utter nonsense to anyone with a modicum of intelligence.

what i would ask is how do folk who assume such elitist garbage manage to play even remotely half decent when they obviously lack the average adult IQ

Lol took the words right outa my mouth, trash quests and mobs have nothing to do with end game content.

Agreed.

And I plan to carry on enjoying my gameplay at so called end game, whilst ignoring the self superior crowd completely.

Why on earth do they think people want to group with them anyway ?

Because people come to the forums and cry when they get thrown out of their groups. Sort of implies they wanted to be in their groups.

Oh yeah...

I mean I see thousands and thousands of people moaning like that every single day...

Oh wait...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/118436/kicked-from-pug-trial-group-for-my-playstyle#latest

Front page just like this. 10 pages of crying.

Oh wait...

That thread has no relevance at all here, but not only is it irreverent, but the way you have used it actually works against your argument. It was written by someone that had done most VR content, which is in direct contrast to what the op is saying.

I think most would start an alt. This has nothing to do with difficulty btw.

Not sure what you actually learn from doing solo PvE quests though.

It's not the same gameplay as trials or anything endgame related. Sure, harder landscape content makes you better at solo play and surviving, no doubt. But wont teach you how to play as pure dps, tank, healer or anything group oriented that needs coordination.

I completed most VR map content on both sorc and templar before the nerf. I found it fairly doable. But I learned nothing that made me a better team player lol. That part I got from PvP, reading online and discussing with guildies.

Besides I dont mind a whole new generation of fresh VR 12 players that fails at solo'ing (because the game never forced them to learn). Sounds like dreamy opponents in PvP. God knows I could use break from good Nightblades jumping me from sneak. More bad ones would be preferred

Innocente wrote: »

How about: "Whine and Cry for Craglorn to be made available for Solo play?"

That's the one I would vote for.

This will happen, while there is any levelling content that cannot be soloed people will whinge, it's only natural. Group only content must be a matter of horizontal progression, not vertical, if designers wish to avoid the situation.
It's the way of the modern MMO world.

Anastasia wrote: »

How will the nerf change which made soloing through V+1-10 much more easily, facilitate the learning necessary for players when they reach endgame?

this poll seems loaded with snarl words designed to antagonize argument rather than stimulate discourse.

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

LariahHunding wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Lunerdog wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Lunerdog wrote: »

gamma71 wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

what a stupid poll. The entire premise assumes that somehow having trash mobs be a bit easier means you automatically will be sub standard at end game . Which of course is utter nonsense to anyone with a modicum of intelligence.

what i would ask is how do folk who assume such elitist garbage manage to play even remotely half decent when they obviously lack the average adult IQ

Lol took the words right outa my mouth, trash quests and mobs have nothing to do with end game content.

Agreed.

And I plan to carry on enjoying my gameplay at so called end game, whilst ignoring the self superior crowd completely.

Why on earth do they think people want to group with them anyway ?

Because people come to the forums and cry when they get thrown out of their groups. Sort of implies they wanted to be in their groups.

Oh yeah...

I mean I see thousands and thousands of people moaning like that every single day...

Oh wait...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/118436/kicked-from-pug-trial-group-for-my-playstyle#latest

Front page just like this. 10 pages of crying.

Oh wait...

One does not equal thousands and thousands.........

learn2math

Learn2patience. Most people aren't even at end game content yet. We are just at the tip of the blubbering iceberg.

Learn to not make incorrect statements.

You forgot:

Will continue to skip VR and just Grind CL like a large % of people before the change and not learn anything but Zerging... making the whole "learn your class" training idea as irrelevant as it was before.

Anastasia wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Lunerdog wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Lunerdog wrote: »

gamma71 wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

what a stupid poll. The entire premise assumes that somehow having trash mobs be a bit easier means you automatically will be sub standard at end game . Which of course is utter nonsense to anyone with a modicum of intelligence.

what i would ask is how do folk who assume such elitist garbage manage to play even remotely half decent when they obviously lack the average adult IQ

Lol took the words right outa my mouth, trash quests and mobs have nothing to do with end game content.

Agreed.

And I plan to carry on enjoying my gameplay at so called end game, whilst ignoring the self superior crowd completely.

Why on earth do they think people want to group with them anyway ?

Because people come to the forums and cry when they get thrown out of their groups. Sort of implies they wanted to be in their groups.

Oh yeah...

I mean I see thousands and thousands of people moaning like that every single day...

Oh wait...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/118436/kicked-from-pug-trial-group-for-my-playstyle#latest

Front page just like this. 10 pages of crying.

Oh wait...

That thread has no relevance at all here, but not only is it irreverent, but the way you have used it actually works against your argument. It was written by someone that had done most VR content, which is in direct contrast to what the op is saying.

---

Yes, he had. But did he spend that time primarily grouping up, learning from other players? Perhaps. Or perhaps he enjoyed the challenge of soloing it but avoided all grouping, ergo not learning about what the grouping dynamics and requirements would be when he decided later he would enjoy entering into competitive endgame content.

There was nothing wrong with his build as he solo'd along --- if there is fault, its because he either didn't have the foreknowledge/hadn't heard yet that he needed a couple of builds available if he was going to get into and succeed in groups/raids at higher content...

But that goes against your original thread, which was about the nerfs to solo content.

I was in favor of the nerf because I lack the time to level all that way and really I just want to go into PVP, it's not right that I should need to do hundreds of hours questing to play the game how I want at a level that is even with other players.

Each person will have there own reasons, but I think it is very clear that the nerf will have no effect on the quality of of players in groups.
If people took more time to help people rather than just kick them out of groups then the standard would be better. Sure, you will get some that don't listen, but kicks come first.

I don't do group content for this very reasons. People just expect everyone to know exactly what to do. Now I can hold my own better than many in combat, but this can be misunderstood if I have not done the dungeon before.

Maybe there should be training for group play, but I think the need for training people how to be polite and helpful is in need much more.

darkmadman187 wrote: »

I plan to do end game content & have soloed most of the game, I don't think in anyway that this makes me any less of a group player at the end. I think most people are like me they solo normal content & then group for dungeons which is where you need the experience. Most trash mobs are a case of block, dodge & beat em up. The same concept generally is the same for bosses with maybe one extra dynamic. But I don't think that soloing MOST not all of the content will make the game any worse. I don't think you'll find many WoW players who grouped the whole way through the game to become a legend at the end most of them solo everything but dungeons until they get to the end & can join in with raids.

---

I'd love to keep this focused on the preferences of solo'rs and what they currently 'think' they will be facing at endgame along with those already in PvE endgame contributing to what a player NEEDS to know and be accomplished at in order to succeed in TESO endgame.

I am NOT insulting folks who love to solo.

I prefer to support them by getting data that shows they deserve ADDITIONAL soloing content, not such as gotten by lowering the difficulty in what was originally designed and planned by ZOS to encourage grouping. BECAUSE... well, ZOS must also think that is a valuable use of players time if they included it/created it.

I can see a bit of a divide in responses by those who think/believe/prefer to state that endgame PvE in MMO's requires little to no skill, that it can be learned speedily and requires no time or commitment toward accruing experience to be a solid role inside endgame groups. I disagree, while admitting the caveat that players who are utilizing this PvE content on the way to endgame as a way to get competitive for PvP are a different category. They will focus their experience needs upon arriving in Cy. Their competitive bar is defined differently.

I also know that in other MMO's I always preferred two kinds of players in competitive grouping at endgame: 1) New players with a thirst to learn, mix it up and have fun and 2) Experienced players who got that experience through trial and error, research and challenging themselves to figure out how to be excellent at their class.

Yes. Experience, willingness to work, and being open to being taught are all extremely valuable in playing MMO's at endgame. There are exceptional individuals who, being new and only soloing allll the way through content with maybe a few dungeon runs thrown in who will stand the test and be accomplished with only a few weeks into endgame.

The majority of players who make it a priority to primarily solo could do with a little seasoning, and that is what gains them the respect from other players who will want them to be invited to their group and/or raid. That doesn't mean they are wrong in some way for enjoying their solo days, it means they have decided to become competitive so they need to get caught up on what is expected instead of saying how unfair it is and demanding to be included in content that may well be impossible for them in that solo build they enjoyed on the way up.

In other MMO's I always sought out players who could be flexible if asked to adjust their build a bit for a particular boss, and who had a decent amount of grouping experience under their belt. A Druid who has played within the old trinity system for a year learning his craft or a player who has has an attitude of being great after only coming somehow into endgame three weeks ago...no contest literally.

I don't want these changes to go ahead. Veteran ranked areas are meant to be hard and a group should be needed. After all the moaning about the lack of group content and raids from supposed players of this game they now ask for the high level content to be nerfed due to their inability to solo it.

I seriously hope the devs will not crumple and give in to these people and keep going with the original vision.

Brayton wrote: »

Anastasia wrote: »

darkmadman187 wrote: »

I plan to do end game content & have soloed most of the game, I don't think in anyway that this makes me any less of a group player at the end. I think most people are like me they solo normal content & then group for dungeons which is where you need the experience. Most trash mobs are a case of block, dodge & beat em up. The same concept generally is the same for bosses with maybe one extra dynamic. But I don't think that soloing MOST not all of the content will make the game any worse. I don't think you'll find many WoW players who grouped the whole way through the game to become a legend at the end most of them solo everything but dungeons until they get to the end & can join in with raids.

---

I'd love to keep this focused on the preferences of solo'rs and what they currently 'think' they will be facing at endgame along with those already in PvE endgame contributing to what a player NEEDS to know and be accomplished at in order to succeed in TESO endgame.

I am NOT insulting folks who love to solo.

I prefer to support them by getting data that shows they deserve ADDITIONAL soloing content, not such as gotten by lowering the difficulty in what was originally designed and planned by ZOS to encourage grouping. BECAUSE... well, ZOS must also think that is a valuable use of players time if they included it/created it.

I can see a bit of a divide in responses by those who think/believe/prefer to state that endgame PvE in MMO's requires little to no skill, that it can be learned speedily and requires no time or commitment toward accruing experience to be a solid role inside endgame groups. I disagree, while admitting the caveat that players who are utilizing this PvE content on the way to endgame as a way to get competitive for PvP are a different category. They will focus their experience needs upon arriving in Cy. Their competitive bar is defined differently.

I also know that in other MMO's I always preferred two kinds of players in competitive grouping at endgame: 1) New players with a thirst to learn, mix it up and have fun and 2) Experienced players who got that experience through trial and error, research and challenging themselves to figure out how to be excellent at their class.

Yes. Experience, willingness to work, and being open to being taught are all extremely valuable in playing MMO's at endgame. There are exceptional individuals who, being new and only soloing allll the way through content with maybe a few dungeon runs thrown in who will stand the test and be accomplished with only a few weeks into endgame.

The majority of players who make it a priority to primarily solo could do with a little seasoning, and that is what gains them the respect from other players who will want them to be invited to their group and/or raid. That doesn't mean they are wrong in some way for enjoying their solo days, it means they have decided to become competitive so they need to get caught up on what is expected instead of saying how unfair it is and demanding to be included in content that may well be impossible for them in that solo build they enjoyed on the way up.

In other MMO's I always sought out players who could be flexible if asked to adjust their build a bit for a particular boss, and who had a decent amount of grouping experience under their belt. A Druid who has played within the old trinity system for a year learning his craft or a player who has has an attitude of being great after only coming somehow into endgame three weeks ago...no contest literally.

OK, this is just patronizing codswallop. You cannot define how content should be based on the people YOU PERSONALLY want to do endgame with. If I am a crappy player with no group experience and I get together with people who are so wonderful at the game that the sun shines out of their 'donkey', I will no doubt be kicked out of the group. Now, if I have an ounce of intelligence (some of us lesser beings do, you know?) I will get together with some other lesser mortals and try the endgame content with them.

I have left many an endgame group in other MMOs simply because they were too intense. I then got together with some other people who simply like PLAYING the game and had a blast.

You, Sir/Madam are out of order.

---

Classy and insightful response Brayton.

I was not patronizing. I expressed the post in my opinion because that is how we do it on the forums. Experience in addition to my opinion and that of others suggests that now that the change has been made, there are endgame repercussions ahead. That is not simple opinion...why not plan or address that most likely eventuality at this point rather than react to it in the moment?

After all, that is exactly what ZOS has done when making this nerf change: decided they had data to suggest they should take an original vision and change it noticeably right then and there. I have in most of my comments tried to place the responsibility of this nerf and the results that will be reaped on Zeni's plate, not on those who enjoy soloing. But it is going to affect all players who decide to focus on endgame and the newer content on the way.

Rather than address it by adding/creating content for those who enjoy primarily soloing, they just simply deleted. So, I understand you are saying that forward planning, and anticipating needs are not valid. Just do something, anything as long as it is a change right now??? Kk.