Please readjust the insane VR content nerf

Dekkameron · July 2014

Before the VR mob nerf i was soloing public dungeons, beating up world bosses by myself and generally kicking the poops out of everyone..

After the VR mob nerf i am soloing public dungeons, beating up world bosses by myself and generally kicking the poops out of everyone faster.

I personally don't mind either way.

dream.beyond.orangeb14_ESO · July 2014

I'm just happy that I can test out new builds as a VR content soloer. How are you supposed to experiment if the content requires your best skill bar?

RatsnevE · July 2014

NorthernFury wrote: »

I agree with you personally; one of my favorite things about ESO was the fact that you actually had to invest the time in planning your fights based on the number and types of mobs in an area, bosses, and using many different skills, including DPS, regens, and CC abilities. It was so refreshing to see that facerolling gained one nothing after a few levels. This enjoyment for this reason was selfish, because many players were having a hard time and quitting.

Yes, it's kind of a LOLercoaster now.

That being said, from a business standpoint, ZoS needs subscriptions, and they needed more people to interact with in VR zones. It was a business decision.

I actually don't like investing time and strategy for a fight based on 'this' or 'that'. If Veteran zones are one tough challenging fight after another and impossible for me to get through (maybe because I'm 10 x 6 + some more years and not a warrior but more a rogue) that is where I'll be leaving again. Now, if ZOS nerfed your PvP domains in Cyrodiil that would be to bad but fixable.

Hilgara · July 2014

dream.beyond.orangeb14_ESO wrote: »

I'm just happy that I can test out new builds as a VR content soloer. How are you supposed to experiment if the content requires your best skill bar?

Why would you ever need a best skill bar if the content never requires it? lowering the starter vet zones was probably a good idea but they should have been a difficulty ramp from there to the later zones bringing people back up to the original difficulty. Then you get to learn as you go. I just dont think that kind of variability is in ZOS's capability. the engine seems to have one variable setting that effects everything. I'm pretty sure even the 1 to 50 content is easier now. My low level alts are just steam rollering all content.

spinedoc · July 2014

What's the problem? Take off your weapon and/or your armor if you find it too easy. I don't understand why people complain. Personally I find it much less fun to have to replay the same EXACT content that my alt played and would rather get through it as fast as possible. If you want to take it slowly with a challenge no one is stopping you.

This is one of those weird complaints I just never understood.

Vahrokh · July 2014

I have just played the game for some hours post EU patch.

I have just one word for this nerf: pathetic.

I was not skilled or specced well enough to solo public dungeons, dolmens and whatever. I had to craft food to buff up and use potions when facing groups of 3 mobs (expecially those who do stackable and high armor ignore attacks).
Did not ever try soloing a storm atronach. ONE frost troll would put me to some trial, one gargoyle would take 5 minutes to die, I'd have to perform evasive manouvres like a pro. Heck, even those "surprise" groups of 2 crocs (VR 7+) that sometimes get "smartly" placed right at zone change so you can't see them before you walk on them, could easily dismount and kill me.

Now?

I have tried. I have purposedly NOT used food nor potions.
TWO groups of 3 mobs now are a now doable. *Gulp*
Frost troll: easy peasy, I CAN stand in his red AND facetank it.
Gargoyle: still long-ish but I think it's been the most nerfed of all, now they really go down, their "stone" skill triggers so rarely now.
Storm Atronach: bolstered by all these successes I have attacked one... and even got an add. Guess what? Storm Atronach dead, didn't need to pot nor food, nothing.
Crocs: I did not plan testing them but once again, I stumbled in a "pop under your feet" group and... butchered them, didn't even sweat a little.

So, what's left of the fun? Very little. Now it's dull. Now it's just "farming mobs" like WoW.

Bleah.

Hilgara · July 2014

spinedoc wrote: »

What's the problem? Take off your weapon and/or your armor if you find it too easy. I don't understand why people complain. Personally I find it much less fun to have to replay the same EXACT content that my alt played and would rather get through it as fast as possible. If you want to take it slowly with a challenge no one is stopping you.

This is one of those weird complaints I just never understood.

Its about meeting the challenge set by the developers. Making things artificially difficult isn't the same thing at all. They set the bar and challenge people to jump it. Some of us relished that challenge. Lowering the bar maybe allows others to jump it but tying our shoe laces together and then trying to jump it will never give the same satisfaction. Personally I would like to see infinite difficulty where no one was able to beat all the content. The challenge would then be.
How far can you get.

For some of us its about beating the game, for others its about the RP element, Others just want to get to end game and get the best gear. There are many people playing this game for lots of different reasons. Its ZOS's job to give a depth of content to make as many of them happy as possible. So far they haven't but at least they are trying. Its a very difficult thing to achieve but its what makes a game earn the AAA title and retain the subs. RP'ers alone cannot keep this game alive, nor PvP'ers or end game raiders or those like myself. ZOS needs to be more specific about the changes it makes instead of blanket nerfing everything because you are always going to make someone unhappy when you do that. They need to put down the sledge hammer and pick up the scalpol

Xexpo · July 2014

NerfEverything wrote: »

My 10 year old cousin, who has never played this game before, just killed the boss of a V10 dungeon after clearing it solo from the entrance. I spent no more than 5 minutes showing her how to play my Templar. She didn't die once and used no potions (probably forgot about them).

This is supposed to be VETERAN content. Instead, it is content that a child that has never played this game before can do. There is something very wrong here.

Start posting some vids man...
This is like your 3rd or 4th wild claim w/o proof

Zebug · July 2014

Dekkameron wrote: »

Before the VR mob nerf i was soloing public dungeons, beating up world bosses by myself and generally kicking the poops out of everyone..

After the VR mob nerf i am soloing public dungeons, beating up world bosses by myself and generally kicking the poops out of everyone faster.

I personally don't mind either way.

exactly my thoughts too, whatever, now I cast 1 less spell to kill a mob.

have the people here seen the actual numbers of the "nerf"...16% less HP on the mobs and up to 30% less damage from them (I think that 30% is going to be less but more testing is needed in the other threads that are actually using raw data).

Hilgara · July 2014

Zebug wrote: »

Dekkameron wrote: »

Before the VR mob nerf i was soloing public dungeons, beating up world bosses by myself and generally kicking the poops out of everyone..

After the VR mob nerf i am soloing public dungeons, beating up world bosses by myself and generally kicking the poops out of everyone faster.

I personally don't mind either way.

exactly my thoughts too, whatever, now I cast 1 less spell to kill a mob.

have the people here seen the actual numbers of the "nerf"...16% less HP on the mobs and up to 30% less damage from them (I think that 30% is going to be less but more testing is needed in the other threads that are actually using raw data).

Problem is its seems to have been a blanket nerf to everything. I would rather have seen a ramp from 1 to 50 up to the original difficulty at the final vet zone. Then the challenge would be, How far can you go.

NerfEverything · July 2014

Vahrokh wrote: »

I have just played the game for some hours post EU patch.

I have just one word for this nerf: pathetic.

I was not skilled or specced well enough to solo public dungeons, dolmens and whatever. I had to craft food to buff up and use potions when facing groups of 3 mobs (expecially those who do stackable and high armor ignore attacks).
Did not ever try soloing a storm atronach. ONE frost troll would put me to some trial, one gargoyle would take 5 minutes to die, I'd have to perform evasive manouvres like a pro. Heck, even those "surprise" groups of 2 crocs (VR 7+) that sometimes get "smartly" placed right at zone change so you can't see them before you walk on them, could easily dismount and kill me.

Now?

I have tried. I have purposedly NOT used food nor potions.
TWO groups of 3 mobs now are a now doable. *Gulp*
Frost troll: easy peasy, I CAN stand in his red AND facetank it.
Gargoyle: still long-ish but I think it's been the most nerfed of all, now they really go down, their "stone" skill triggers so rarely now.
Storm Atronach: bolstered by all these successes I have attacked one... and even got an add. Guess what? Storm Atronach dead, didn't need to pot nor food, nothing.
Crocs: I did not plan testing them but once again, I stumbled in a "pop under your feet" group and... butchered them, didn't even sweat a little.

So, what's left of the fun? Very little. Now it's dull. Now it's just "farming mobs" like WoW.

Bleah.

The only thing I have found somewhat challenging after this huge nerf was soloing a VR10 dungeon without armor/food. And the only tricky part was when it was a 6 mob group with two healers. I have to admit that it was fun being able to take on 6 mobs naked, but now there is only 1 area per VR zone that is fun (the public dungeon) and everything is boring/trivial/pointless.

Tannakaobi · July 2014

I think the XP nerf was about right, should have kept what damage they did the same as it was.

Hilgara · July 2014

We're probably on different sides of this argument but I gotta respect that

Anastasia · July 2014

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

yelloweyedemon wrote: »

sigh. The only thing that needed a change was the rewards from questing in V zones.

No amount of rewards will get people to do content they don't want to do. VR is bleeding Zen's money. That's why they changed things and as they have said - will continue to change things. This is just an emergency, 'do something, do something, anything now' response. In the next few months they'll build it into something different and better. But hard-mode has gone forever.

Meanwhile anything that helps people get through VR as quickly as possible helps. It helps them retain subs.

Those who don't like it can speak with their money, which is what people have been doing. It's the only language they listen to.

If you don't like it -cancel your sub and let them know the reason. Nothing else will get you heard.

***" But hard-mode has gone forever."*** Or til folks who wanted to exclusively solo skip happily down the road to V+11 and 12.

Hadria · July 2014

I still find it a bit of a challenge actually. I run sorc dwield v2 still find it fun tho I think it's a good mix. Of course anyone who went through it before these changes will find it way easier. They're use to it, they know what do.

Hadria · July 2014

spinedoc wrote: »

What's the problem? Take off your weapon and/or your armor if you find it too easy. I don't understand why people complain. Personally I find it much less fun to have to replay the same EXACT content that my alt played and would rather get through it as fast as possible. If you want to take it slowly with a challenge no one is stopping you.

This is one of those weird complaints I just never understood.

Sorry but saying to take off your weapons and armor to make it more challenging is dumb, I can tell you to find some friends and learn to play better to make it easier but the change is done.

Shiroro · July 2014

"It's too easy now I hate it!"
Well, why didn't you do it before if it was so great?
"I...um...er...you see..."

It was awful before. That's why nobody played through it. Now it's balanced where it should be.

Guppet · July 2014

Hilgara wrote: »

We're probably on different sides of this argument but I gotta respect that

No ban lol. So worth it

Loco_Mofo · July 2014

@‌OP

The care bears have spoken. ZoS see casuals as their money stream now, so the game is being catered to the ones paying the bills. Most of the hardcore crowd moved on ages ago anyway.

If you're looking for a challenge, PvP is pretty much you're only option now.

kijima · July 2014

Before the nerf I died every five minutes.

After the nerf, I can stand naked in a red circle eating an apple and when I'm done, I just light attack everyone to death.

That's ^ how I'm reading some of this nonsense. No doubt for some builds that worked well, you know the ones I mean, good synergy and good player skill, VR content wasn't a horrible die fest... for them.

BUT, just for a second, don't think yourself. While you might think that everyone should be running around with 7 light and resto staff, think about the people that have a gimped build because they have a pre determined role playing build. I know people from Beta that had an idea of they were going to run long before we had a fully working build calcs and so on, they did this because it's what they wanted to do. Some were lucky and just stumbled on what is deemed a good build, others not so lucky.

My point is, those that have a build that can't be compromised by changing things because it doesn't fit into their role play would be finding the changes to VR very welcome.

So if you are finding it easy, then pat yourself on the back for being awesome, and if you want a challenge, gimp yourself a little.

Stalwart385 · July 2014

danno816_ESO wrote: »

This morning in Rivenspire (VR 8 for me), after 2 or 3 fights I realized I didn't really need to hold down block anymore. After a couple more fights I realized I could pretty much ignore power attacks on basic mobs, only blocking ones that would knock me down (not because I would die, just cause they are annoying.)

Then after another couple fights I stopped worrying about standing in AoE effects.

I went and soloed a couple "skull and crossbones" areas that had been too hard for me before, only being stopped by by the Gargoyle one after getting him to half health. At least they are still enemies to be afraid of.

IMO, it was an over-nerf. But I can guarantee that stamina based, 2H, DW, S+B melee characters will have a much easier time of it, and can complete the Veteran levels easy peasy now.

I'm a S&B/DW and was at VR8 before they nerfed it. Sure my fights took longer and and I had higher repair bills, but I could make it through a lot of content that my range class guildies couldn't without help. Also I died a lot less when grouped (without healer and I always run taunt or AOE). Of course now it's mindless grinding for everyone.

Just saying don't put tanks in the groups of complainers. I was loving the difficult content.

Stalwart385 · July 2014

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

MeowGinger wrote: »

The addon used is LUI. Images cropped so they wouldn't be resized as much, but guess I'm out of luck. Clicking on the image will take you to the full size uploaded on tinypic. You're looking for the red hp box provided by LUI. Sorry for small text; that's from the addon, not from me (although I am playing on a small monitor right now).

Okay. Sincano. In Silumm (in Glenumbra), VR6, 8740 hp. BEFORE:

7283 hp, AFTER:

Percent change formula:
[(8740 - 7283) / 8740 ] * 100% = 16.6704805499... % less health

This is across the board.

Bloodthorn assassin, 2582 hp, BEFORE:

Red Rook bandit, 2152 hp, AFTER:

I know these mobs aren't identical and that enemies have different amounts of health depending on their role (bandit vs enforcer, etc.), but these seem to match and I was in a rush.

Percent change formula:
[(2582 - 2152) / 2582 ] * 100% = 16.65375677769... % less health

AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

DATA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!1!!!!eleven!!!!!

How will people whine about the VR nerf being too much when there is data showing its only 16% ?!?!?!!

Dude that's just health. Just throw in damage taken and your looking at a 30% nerf easily.

I wouldn't care what number you came up with anyway. If you play the game you can easily see the challenge is gone.

Alphashado · July 2014

Stalwart385 wrote: »

onlinegamer1 wrote: »

MeowGinger wrote: »

The addon used is LUI. Images cropped so they wouldn't be resized as much, but guess I'm out of luck. Clicking on the image will take you to the full size uploaded on tinypic. You're looking for the red hp box provided by LUI. Sorry for small text; that's from the addon, not from me (although I am playing on a small monitor right now).

Okay. Sincano. In Silumm (in Glenumbra), VR6, 8740 hp. BEFORE:

7283 hp, AFTER:

Percent change formula:
[(8740 - 7283) / 8740 ] * 100% = 16.6704805499... % less health

This is across the board.

Bloodthorn assassin, 2582 hp, BEFORE:

Red Rook bandit, 2152 hp, AFTER:

I know these mobs aren't identical and that enemies have different amounts of health depending on their role (bandit vs enforcer, etc.), but these seem to match and I was in a rush.

Percent change formula:
[(2582 - 2152) / 2582 ] * 100% = 16.65375677769... % less health

AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!

DATA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!1!!!!eleven!!!!!

How will people whine about the VR nerf being too much when there is data showing its only 16% ?!?!?!!

Dude that's just health. Just throw in damage taken and your looking at a 30% nerf easily.

I wouldn't care what number you came up with anyway. If you play the game you can easily see the challenge is gone for me.

Only time will tell if these changes bring people back and repopulate the VR zones. For now, based on the limited examples we have, there seems to be a pretty overwhelming positive response. The poll (which means next to nothing) indicates a majority likes the change, while a minority dislikes it and a smaller minority us undecided. The VR zones seem to be more active and there are many threads and posts from people that don't have many forum *stars* stating how happy they are about it.

So the question is: Do you dislike it enough to quit the game? Do you feel frustrated enough to unsub? Because that is what gets their attention. It was a calculated gamble by ZoS that the change would retain and bring back more subs than it would cause them to lose.

Mortosk · July 2014

kitsinni wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

I just soloed a VR10 public dungeon, two world bosses and two dolomens... completely naked.

It was fun, and challenging, but became trivial the instant a second person shows up.

Oh yeah I just soloed vet coh naked with bare hands

Poor attempt at trolling. Reported

Reported for posting about what you reported.

Reported for Reporting for posting about what you reported.

Kayira · July 2014

The main problem is that Zenimax reacted to the forum whining. All the people content with it didn't post anything so Zeni thought: Oh look Vet content is too hard.

Now the people that were happy with vet difficulty come to the forum to tell them it is not ok, so it is not really the same people complaining here but actually the people that were content in playing before. Zenimax should get their information not only from the forum but maybe from surveys before such a massive change to difficulty.

I also agree that Vet content is a joke now. I stopped using buff food and only sometimes block. You don't have to put it back to the old but just make it slightly harder again.

Nhines · July 2014

Dekkameron wrote: »

Before the VR mob nerf i was soloing public dungeons, beating up world bosses by myself and generally kicking the poops out of everyone..

After the VR mob nerf i am soloing public dungeons, beating up world bosses by myself and generally kicking the poops out of everyone faster.

I personally don't mind either way.

^This. People talk about the "skill" required to beat on groups of vr mobs before the nerf as if skill was actually required. It really just depended on what class you were, whether you were competent enough to gather mobs, and to some extent what 12 things you had on your bars. You could go around with 3 skills and an ult on your bar, having the other 2 there to level just in case they became useful at some point.

"Well, there's 4 mobs there, maybe I should get them close to each other and mash my aoe skills, 'cause you know, no real cooldowns, just resource". Actual group content does requires actual consciousness, but did this nerf hit those, or was this just the general pve area?

The only thing I cared about was storm atronachs getting a little nerf bat, 'cause storm atronachs.

Innocente · July 2014

To late. That ship has sailed. Zenimax has chosen their path. It is the path of the solo gamer. And, that is fine. It is, however, not my path. Nor is it the path that many other MMO players will stay on for long, I expect.

Sihnfahl · July 2014

Innocente wrote: »

To late. That ship has sailed. Zenimax has chosen their path. It is the path of the solo gamer. And, that is fine. It is, however, not my path. Nor is it the path that many other MMO players will stay on for long, I expect.

Okay, so Craglorn was put in as group only, to the point that certain quests can't be completed unless you're in a group... and pushed the Trials and such, which are group only ... and folks abused the Anomalies to bypass Cadwell entirely by grouping up....

... but because lower level content was nerfed after Craglorn was introduced , they chose the path of the single player?

Innocente · July 2014

Sihnfahl,

Yes, they did. And there are already cries on the forums to allow for solo Craglorn play. Which I expect Zenimax to give to them, one way or another.

Stalwart385 · July 2014

Alphashado wrote: »

So the question is: Do you dislike it enough to quit the game? Do you feel frustrated enough to unsub? Because that is what gets their attention. It was a calculated gamble by ZoS that the change would retain and bring back more subs than it would cause them to lose.

Now that I see VR12 in the near future and not a more long term goal, soon yes. I will most likely unsub and wait for the thieves/brotherhood expansion. What would have taken pacing is now a breeze. Not much of a PvPer just in small doses. Once I finish all the content there isn't much left for me.