Kicked from pug trial group for my playstyle...

reften · July 2014

I'm not familiar with trials...but if they're only good for players with min/max builds, than no thanks

khele23eb17_ESO · July 2014

This is on ZOS. You can blame 'elitist a-holes' when the output difference between playstyles is 5%. When its 30-100% its on the devs.

Bramir · July 2014

I actually do agree that the leader in the OP's example is not the worst kind of offender, because they actually bothered to explain their incomplete understanding of why their raid was wiping. A lot of raid leaders would have just kicked them without an explanation...

xaraan · July 2014

I know nobody likes nerfs, everyone wants buffs (and some changes are needed to med and hvy and stamina still) but they really just need to nerf light armor and AoE.

The only build that's OP right now is that one, and chances are those are the players complaining new vet is a faceroll right now. No AoE should be more useful than any single target spell. Look at impulse: does great damage, a morph takes another 10% off target health, and has a chance to apply a DoT that some classes have to use another class power for a small DoT like that. All from one blast. Personally I think any AoE should be able to hit as many targets around as possible, but be doing about 60% of the damage it currently does.

And nerf light armor by getting rid of the armor penetration passive. That right there will make it more equal to med and hvy armor. (I also think for hvy they should add a small damage mitigation percentage, like 1% per piece of hvy worn, and for medium they should double the reduction for CC break, sprint, dodge roll costs).

On top of these changes, make one Crit chance instead of two and soft cap it at 35%, hardcap at 50%.

Wanna take it a step further, make all weapons including staves use stamina. Want an RP reason, well maybe you are using your own energy to trigger the magic in the staff instead of using your own magicka to cast something from the staff. That would even out the weapons quite a bit.

Now, everyone wearing light armor and using staves won't like all that, but it will fix a lot of balance issues and make the game more challenging for the existing elder staff population.

kitsinni · July 2014

Bramir wrote: »

I actually do agree that the leader in the OP's example is not the worst kind of offender, because they actually bothered to explain their incomplete understanding of why their raid was wiping. A lot of raid leaders would have just kicked them without an explanation...

Please with your eliteness explain to use the correct way of doing the needed dps using 2-Hand and Heavy Armor so the OP can be educated.

SaibotLiu · July 2014

Group leader is a bad. Really bad. He let you join group, ran content with you, wiped three times. It is in fact his fault and he's doing a terrible job of being group leader and wasting other peoples time. If he was good he would've known that the group makeup wasnt good enough before you wiped at all. So the three wipes were probably his fault because he's a crap player and he just takes the easiest scape goat.

You should PM his name so I can teach him how to play his class and give him advice on how not to suck at being a GL.

Laura · July 2014

some of you guys obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Please actually go and do the trials before you blame the raid leader - the dps check for the boss they were working on really is that tight and a two handed plate build I can't see pulling more than 250 400 dps on that fight.

its high movement and plate is sort of for tanks. not to mention on top of all that zos royally screwed stamina builds and melee in general.

Even the OP knows it wasn't the raid leaders fault. They wanted to complete it, they couldn't with this play style so they had to let him go.

the ball is in ZoS court now

this isn't a case of him doing 3 to 5% less this is a case of 90 to 100% less or maybe even more like 120% less maybe more. With a proper setup you can pull 1300 on that fight and with his he couldn't have been pulling more than 400.

its a massive differential and everyone has to be pulling at minimum 700 to 800 for you to even be able to complete that particular boss without hitting enrage time.

xMovingTarget · July 2014

Well. How is it then, that we can clear AA out easily when having a med dualwield NB, a med 2H DK and another med/HA dualwield DK in the Raid.

That nightblade pulls out 850-1.1k dps while dualwielding lol. Its not so much about medium + dualwield. It´s more about the playstyle, build and Skillrotation.

Would they do more Damage with LA/Staff?

Probably, but its not necessary. You wont reach Time Records, but that doesnt really matter that much anyways anymore.

Durham · July 2014

Heavy really on helps with a 20% reduction in blocking ... that helps ... but no where near a enough:) Medium/Light Armor tank with AF magic is better in my opinion... Light gives you more magicka for self heals, AF magic buff, and a few options for CC.... Heavy gives you health regen.... from 30 something to 40 something lol !!! every two secs.....

kitsinni · July 2014

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Well. How is it then, that we can clear AA out easily when having a med dualwield NB, a med 2H DK and another med/HA dualwield DK in the Raid.

That nightblade pulls out 850-1.1k dps while dualwielding lol. Its not so much about medium + dualwield. It´s more about the playstyle, build and Skillrotation.

Would they do more Damage with LA/Staff?

Probably, but its not necessary. You wont reach Time Records, but that doesnt really matter that much anyways anymore.

Well a huge part is that both Medium and Nightblade synergize with DW and stamina while Heavy doesn't at all. DK synergizes with .. well just about everything.

Bramir · July 2014

kitsinni wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

I actually do agree that the leader in the OP's example is not the worst kind of offender, because they actually bothered to explain their incomplete understanding of why their raid was wiping. A lot of raid leaders would have just kicked them without an explanation...

Please with your eliteness explain to use the correct way of doing the needed dps using 2-Hand and Heavy Armor so the OP can be educated.

There is a difference between 'needed' and 'wanted', and even when dps checks are involved with an encounter, the world does not end when the timer is reached in most cases. It just gets harder the longer it takes...and if your tank(s), healer(s) and other dps are barely cutting it, they are part of the problem too. Don't blame the one guy with the lowest dps just because you can point out something wrong with his build.

And I don't consider myself elite...above average maybe...only a very few can ever be elite, and there are a lot of players better at this game than me...

Laura · July 2014

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Well. How is it then, that we can clear AA out easily when having a med dualwield NB, a med 2H DK and another med/HA dualwield DK in the Raid.

That nightblade pulls out 850-1.1k dps while dualwielding lol. Its not so much about medium + dualwield. It´s more about the playstyle, build and Skillrotation.

Would they do more Damage with LA/Staff?

Probably, but its not necessary. You wont reach Time Records, but that doesnt really matter that much anyways anymore.

nightblade yes I can see that but I would love to see a video of you killing the third boss with those medium dks.

unless the rest of your raid is pulling great numbers and carrying them I cant see it. Still in a pug I doubt they had enough people pulling insane numbers.

Still a heavy armor + two hand would not be pulling more than 400. Just going medium with it I would agree would be a huge help.

Durham · July 2014

Heavy brings nothing to DPS .. Its suppose to bring mitigation but you can make that up by AF buffs... Crits are the name of the game .... Light and medium have that !! Crits also work on heals do not forget that !!!!

Valn · July 2014

kitsinni · July 2014

Bramir wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

I actually do agree that the leader in the OP's example is not the worst kind of offender, because they actually bothered to explain their incomplete understanding of why their raid was wiping. A lot of raid leaders would have just kicked them without an explanation...

Please with your eliteness explain to use the correct way of doing the needed dps using 2-Hand and Heavy Armor so the OP can be educated.

There is a difference between 'needed' and 'wanted', and even when dps checks are involved with an encounter, the world does not end when the timer is reached in most cases. It just gets harder the longer it takes...and if your tank(s), healer(s) and other dps are barely cutting it, they are part of the problem too. Don't blame the one guy with the lowest dps just because you can point out something wrong with his build.

And I don't consider myself elite...above average maybe...only a very few can ever be elite, and there are a lot of players better at this game than me...

Well ok being "above average" do you see any advantage to the OP using Heavy Armor instead of Medium Armor for a 2-Hand spec aside from look and "wanting to"?

Can't you see some justification in a group that actually wants to complete an encounter prefering someone who uses the armor that helps their spec instead of the one the just like better or looks cooler to them?

Isn't trying it three times with the guy showing that he is willing to give it a shot even though it wasn't the optimal build?

Fleymark · July 2014

Vuron wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

The problem is ZOS, apparently, is completely lost in the weeds as to how to design and balance an MMO.

It's as if none of these people have ever even played an MMO before or even have a fundamental grasp on basic game theory.

Topic for a different thread, but the root of the issue is trying to balance PvP with PvE. Every change they make to balance something in PvP completely screws with the rest of the game.

Haven't PvPed here yet, but I can imagine. Seems to be the case in most games. Even so, I have a hard time accepting that they can't balance stamina builds with magicka better than they have, PvP or no.

As a side note, this is why the new Mark Jacobs Camelot project is very exciting, IMO. Going to entirely a PvP game supposedly.

EverQuest Next is approaching this in an interesting way, also. They are working on the dynamic world with the Landmark game...As that progresses they are easing combat elements into it....starting with PvP. It's a primarily PvE game like the rest of the series and most other games, but their approach is to balance PvP first because that's the most difficult part, then tune pve to fit that instead of the other way around.

Both will be interesting to see.

Burnemdown · July 2014

LOL Presumptions and assumptions. How do any of you know who was the weak link in this trial, without a shared dps meter? The forums? LoL.

They should have finished this as a team or disbanded completely.
I can also assume that the 2hand heavy was the only one not in the same guild as the op.

LOL

Vuron · July 2014

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Well. How is it then, that we can clear AA out easily when having a med dualwield NB, a med 2H DK and another med/HA dualwield DK in the Raid.

That nightblade pulls out 850-1.1k dps while dualwielding lol. Its not so much about medium + dualwield. It´s more about the playstyle, build and Skillrotation.

Would they do more Damage with LA/Staff?

Probably, but its not necessary. You wont reach Time Records, but that doesnt really matter that much anyways anymore.

A couple reasons...

You say "we", so I'm assuming you're running with nearly the same group. You know what each other is running, you've devised your strategies, and you certainly have the correct timing and buffs running.

You probably have others in the group that are making up for the few that aren't running optimal builds. Carrying one or a few can be done if you have DKs in your group pulling 1500 dps.

Were you able to complete the trials in your first couple runs with these same setups?

We're not talking about established groups or guilds. We're talking about a PUG group trying to complete trials. Most PUGs won't be able to complete trials in the first few tries, even with optimal builds. They're definitely not going to be able to do it if they have to carry people that are doing 400 DPS.

$infraction2008b16_ESO$ · July 2014

Anastasia wrote: »

Vuron wrote: »

This scenario is only going to become more common since the VR nerf. You're going to have people getting through VR content without really learning how to play an optimal build or how to adjust their builds for group content.

Don't blame other people because they don't want to carry you. Unfortunately, wearing heavy armor and wielding a 2h in trials would most likely mean they'd have to carry you. You might be the exception, but many won't be.

This comes down to the mechanics of the trials and not really the group leaders. These trials require very specific tactics and certain classes/builds just don't fit. This is a development issue.

************"This is a development issue.*************

Yep, its on Zeni's plate.

Sorry but it is a player base issue also, people have become far too reliant on these builds to the point it's pretty much a requirement to use them. Yes Zenimax are the ones who need to fix the sustained and overall DPS of non LA/staff builds but why is there no experienced people out there willing to break the mould in order to highlight the issue?

I personally don't think the top guilds out there whom seem to have the attention of the developers are doing enough to put this issue on the devs plate. It's almost like they are happy the way things are and they don't want every man and his uncle with odd builds clearing trials with high enough DPS without investing heavily into a particular cookie cutter build in order to do so.

I bet if we had a patch right now that fixed these balance issues and made more builds especially non magicka builds viable, the elitists would probably complain about it.

Fleymark · July 2014

Anastasia wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

How many of you defenders have actually been able to complete a trial with DPS using 2-Hander and Heavy Armor? Or are you just talking out your rear?

That's not the question.

The question is, why is there content in a "play your way" game that can't be completed with a group member specced in 2 hand and heavy armor?

It's not like the guy is using some off the wall obscure experimental build. It's an archetypical fantasy game build, like any other number of non dress and stick builds that can't hold up on the high end because HALF of this game continues to be BROKEN a quarter of a freaking year after release.

Meanwhile they continue to focus on all manner of trivial CRAP than fix HALF of the game.

I'm sure if you are an epeen ***, just speccing fotm optimal no matter what it is acceptable to you in pursuit of your stroke job. To a lot of people playing certain classes, builds in this game's terms, building the toon of their choice is more important than putting up numbers on a meaningless leaderboard as if we are in a fps. And some people have zero interest in playing a robed caster.

Again, it's not like the guy is playing some obscure unreasonable build. It's zenimax's fault this ever got this way to begin with. It's inexcusable that they added content to the game that encourages this behavior before fixing the balance of HALF the game.

Agreed. But then, one might wonder if the answer lies akin to the same reasoning ZOS used to figure out "why is there content in a "play your way" game that can't be completed as a solo build specced however they want to play?" Because that is the very same question that has been bantered about recently. Curious.

Well, shrugs. It is apparent from yesterdays patch that ZOS 'fixed that problem real good', so I'm sure they are giving this one consideration as well, *nods. Phases II, III and IV or more are on the way remember. o-0

You have a point but solo vs group is an entirely different question. But then, I'm an actual MMO player. Solo is just an extra, but I'm gathering I'm in the minority in this game on that. Even so there is NO excuse for a developer to add content to a game that renders already known unbalanced builds completely unviable at all...not just some builds, but the entire melee spectrum. And I can't decide what is more pathetic...That zenimax either doesn't know or doesn't care that a significant portion of players in a fantasy MMO will have ZERO interest in playing caster builds or, reading back thru this thread, that other players don't.

Like I said in another post, despite all the crepe and BS that gets hung on this and every other new game that appeals to the "modern MMO" masses, realistically there are fewer choices here for different playstyles than there are in 15 year old games with rigid roles for every class like EQ. Sure, every class has a designated role, but there are like 15 choices for more roles. And they are viable at every level of the game. Here, if you want to do trials, you get 4 choices of class to use light armor and staff?

It's a complete joke.

Regardless, you are probably right. I'll lay 10 to 1 odds they cheese it and just nerf difficulty on everything long before they ever significantly address balance between magicka and stamina builds.

Arsenic_Touch · July 2014

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Well. How is it then, that we can clear AA out easily when having a med dualwield NB, a med 2H DK and another med/HA dualwield DK in the Raid.

That nightblade pulls out 850-1.1k dps while dualwielding lol. Its not so much about medium + dualwield. It´s more about the playstyle, build and Skillrotation.

Would they do more Damage with LA/Staff?

Probably, but its not necessary. You wont reach Time Records, but that doesnt really matter that much anyways anymore.

So you're attempting to counter a discussion involving heavy armor by mentioning classes wearing medium armor. Brilliant work.

kitsinni · July 2014

Burnemdown wrote: »

LOL Presumptions and assumptions. How do any of you know who was the weak link in this trial, without a shared dps meter? The forums? LoL.

They should have finished this as a team or disbanded completely.
I can also assume that the 2hand heavy was the only one not in the same guild as the op.

LOL

Just as a guess I don't think it was the 2 hand as much as the combination of 2 hand and Heavy Armor. Neither set does jack for class abilities so that is neutral. The synergies between medium and a stamina build are far better for a non-tank than Heavy.

Lets look at the passives assuming 7 pieces of each
Medium
5% attack speed
14% decreased dodge roll increased sprint speed
14% more stamina recovery
7% crit with physical attacks
7% reduction of cost of stamina abilities
reduction in sneak costs and detection (probably not relevant)

Heavy
7% armor and base spell resist
10% decreased cost of blocking
14% health recovery
3.5% Weapon Damage with melee attacks
3.5% Increased healing recieved

Vuron · July 2014

infraction2008b16_ESO wrote: »

Anastasia wrote: »

Vuron wrote: »

This scenario is only going to become more common since the VR nerf. You're going to have people getting through VR content without really learning how to play an optimal build or how to adjust their builds for group content.

Don't blame other people because they don't want to carry you. Unfortunately, wearing heavy armor and wielding a 2h in trials would most likely mean they'd have to carry you. You might be the exception, but many won't be.

This comes down to the mechanics of the trials and not really the group leaders. These trials require very specific tactics and certain classes/builds just don't fit. This is a development issue.

************"This is a development issue.*************

Yep, its on Zeni's plate.

Sorry but it is a player base issue also, people have become far too reliant on these builds to the point it's pretty much a requirement to use them. Yes Zenimax are the ones who need to fix the sustained and overall DPS of non LA/staff builds but why is there no experienced people out there willing to break the mould in order to highlight the issue?

I personally don't think the top guilds out there whom seem to have the attention of the developers are doing enough to put this issue on the devs plate. It's almost like they are happy the way things are and they don't want every man and his uncle with odd builds clearing trials with high enough DPS without investing heavily into a particular cookie cutter build in order to do so.

I bet if we had a patch right now that fixed these balance issues and made more builds especially non magicka builds viable, the elitists would probably complain about it.

The Dev's clearly know about the issue. They've mentioned it in multiple threads and announcements.

Unfortunately, a redesign of the entire combat/build/resource system is not something that can easily be thrown into an update patch.

IF, they can even figure out how to fix it, I wouldn't bet on it being anytime soon.

And, No, the top guilds are not happy with the way things are. There are quite a few people that don't like running the same builds.

Anastasia · July 2014

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

Vuron wrote: »

[But, they devs never said "you can play any playstyles you want!". This quote has been going around and used in every argument that people have.

From the horses mouth

One of the core philosophies of The Elder Scrolls Online is to allow you to play the way you want. You’ve probably heard us say it or experienced it for yourself: equip any weapon, wear any armor, choose from a myriad of skills, pick your role, make choices in quests, ignore certain quests and just explore, etc. The idea is that these choices tie you more to your character, and respect that you might want to play differently from one day to the next. Many times, I’ve heard people discuss how they like to solo, others like to “raid,” and another group likes to PvP, so we know gamers never fit into neat categories.

However, many people who have become attached to their character want to see how their character would perform in a variety of situations or game modes. This is part of the reason we don’t have PvP gear and PvE gear, and also the reason we embrace being able to pick and max out more than a handful of skills. We’ve tried to avoid the danger of compartmentalizing and labeling certain players by acknowledging that circumstances change for people day-to-day. On Monday you might feel like playing alone, and Tuesday you might feel like working with friends on a dungeon. Whatever your motivation, you should be able to go do the thing you want without a lot of barriers.

This is the philosophy behind the core systems of ESO—play the way you want to play—and it extends to our veteran content.

no matter how many times certain posters pretend they don't know this the developers were absolutely explicit that the very basis of the game was 'play as you want'. Thee flexible build system was a very big selling point.

There was no 'but you will fail if you don't play the build i'm thinking about in my head' caveats.

Heh, they were $:\$ also very explicit in focusing on promo-ing features of interest specifically to endgame/vet MMO players that this was going to be a 'different' kind of MMO, one with some fun soloing in the lower levels, and challenging group encouraged play once we hit Vet content. Yet, that content focus has changed.

I see nothing anywhere that says both "you can play any build you want at any time and still be viable and successful in all levels and types of combat and content." What was touted was just the ABILITY TO EVEN BE ABLE TO build any sort of creative build you want...because many other MMO's DO NOT allow it since they have some version of the trinity in place.

Additionally as has been stated by many others, the 'norm' in an MMO definitely includes having more than only one preferred skill setup/hotbar. Most mmo players with experience from other games will tell you its best to have your 'main' or preferred hotbar and then up to two, three or even more other ones if you are an individual who enjoys playing in more than one 'type' of content. Ie, main healer, PvP, solo build, aoe mistress, utility master etc.

Its obvious ZOS and the original vision and content for this MMO has changed fairly dramatically. Whether that be due to personnel changes, the 'suits' demanding more profit for themselves and not allowing enough funding to stay in the hat for actually maintaining and going forward with the game, or whatever.

These trials and other things are the funhouse for competitive players. There is a difference between a fun get together with friends on Saturday afternoon group ups and what is now TESO endgame competitive content. And there will be more Adventure Zones incoming since that is what ZOS has chosen instead of the typical MMO endgame raid forces.

Solo'rs demanded more soloable Vet content. The other endgame stuff is set aside for people who want to play and compete in the way that ZOS has set it up to do.

We've yet to see if ZOS is now going to be creative and spend time figuring out how to provide those who enjoy soloing the most with a viable training means to endgame, or if you're gonna be left to hang out and dry. Maybe they will put in other interesting content (* ie dailies etc) which will funnel the ones who want to go to Trials etc with more knowledge, gear rewards and preparation, or just let players hash it out among themselves.

I would hazard a wild guess

if that happens, based on other current triple-A mmo's -- the standard at endgame, in static groups, guilds and yes, in pug's will have player created enforcement of what ZOS has instituted as the minimum gear check/stats that produce a reasonable chance of success/winning for that content.

Burnemdown · July 2014

kitsinni wrote: »

Burnemdown wrote: »

LOL Presumptions and assumptions. How do any of you know who was the weak link in this trial, without a shared dps meter? The forums? LoL.

They should have finished this as a team or disbanded completely.
I can also assume that the 2hand heavy was the only one not in the same guild as the op.

LOL

Just as a guess I don't think it was the 2 hand as much as the combination of 2 hand and Heavy Armor. Neither set does jack for class abilities so that is neutral. The synergies between medium and a stamina build are far better for a non-tank than Heavy.

Lets look at the passives assuming 7 pieces of each
Medium
5% attack speed
14% decreased dodge roll increased sprint speed
14% more stamina recovery
7% crit with physical attacks
7% reduction of cost of stamina abilities
reduction in sneak costs and detection (probably not relevant)

Heavy
7% armor and base spell resist
10% decreased cost of blocking
14% health recovery
3.5% Weapon Damage with melee attacks
3.5% Increased healing recieved

No mention of rotation or standing in stupid? Come on I know you are more eleite

kitsinni wrote: »

Burnemdown wrote: »

LOL Presumptions and assumptions. How do any of you know who was the weak link in this trial, without a shared dps meter? The forums? LoL.

They should have finished this as a team or disbanded completely.
I can also assume that the 2hand heavy was the only one not in the same guild as the op.

LOL

Just as a guess I don't think it was the 2 hand as much as the combination of 2 hand and Heavy Armor. Neither set does jack for class abilities so that is neutral. The synergies between medium and a stamina build are far better for a non-tank than Heavy.

Lets look at the passives assuming 7 pieces of each
Medium
5% attack speed
14% decreased dodge roll increased sprint speed
14% more stamina recovery
7% crit with physical attacks
7% reduction of cost of stamina abilities
reduction in sneak costs and detection (probably not relevant)

Heavy
7% armor and base spell resist
10% decreased cost of blocking
14% health recovery
3.5% Weapon Damage with melee attacks
3.5% Increased healing recieved

No mention of rotation or standing in stupid? Come on I know you are more elite then that.

kitsinni · July 2014

Burnemdown wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

Burnemdown wrote: »

LOL Presumptions and assumptions. How do any of you know who was the weak link in this trial, without a shared dps meter? The forums? LoL.

They should have finished this as a team or disbanded completely.
I can also assume that the 2hand heavy was the only one not in the same guild as the op.

LOL

Just as a guess I don't think it was the 2 hand as much as the combination of 2 hand and Heavy Armor. Neither set does jack for class abilities so that is neutral. The synergies between medium and a stamina build are far better for a non-tank than Heavy.

Lets look at the passives assuming 7 pieces of each
Medium
5% attack speed
14% decreased dodge roll increased sprint speed
14% more stamina recovery
7% crit with physical attacks
7% reduction of cost of stamina abilities
reduction in sneak costs and detection (probably not relevant)

Heavy
7% armor and base spell resist
10% decreased cost of blocking
14% health recovery
3.5% Weapon Damage with melee attacks
3.5% Increased healing recieved

No mention of rotation or standing in stupid? Come on I know you are more eleite

kitsinni wrote: »

Burnemdown wrote: »

LOL Presumptions and assumptions. How do any of you know who was the weak link in this trial, without a shared dps meter? The forums? LoL.

They should have finished this as a team or disbanded completely.
I can also assume that the 2hand heavy was the only one not in the same guild as the op.

LOL

Just as a guess I don't think it was the 2 hand as much as the combination of 2 hand and Heavy Armor. Neither set does jack for class abilities so that is neutral. The synergies between medium and a stamina build are far better for a non-tank than Heavy.

Lets look at the passives assuming 7 pieces of each
Medium
5% attack speed
14% decreased dodge roll increased sprint speed
14% more stamina recovery
7% crit with physical attacks
7% reduction of cost of stamina abilities
reduction in sneak costs and detection (probably not relevant)

Heavy
7% armor and base spell resist
10% decreased cost of blocking
14% health recovery
3.5% Weapon Damage with melee attacks
3.5% Increased healing recieved

No mention of rotation or standing in stupid? Come on I know you are more elite then that.

Not really sure what you are trying to get at. I'm just showing that there is basically no advantage for a non-tank to use heavy over medium. Never stated I was elite in any way. Maybe you can shed some light on the the advantage of using Heavy with a Stamina weapon as a dps?

Maulkin · July 2014

Burnemdown wrote: »

kitsinni wrote: »

Burnemdown wrote: »

LOL Presumptions and assumptions. How do any of you know who was the weak link in this trial, without a shared dps meter? The forums? LoL.

They should have finished this as a team or disbanded completely.
I can also assume that the 2hand heavy was the only one not in the same guild as the op.

LOL

Just as a guess I don't think it was the 2 hand as much as the combination of 2 hand and Heavy Armor. Neither set does jack for class abilities so that is neutral. The synergies between medium and a stamina build are far better for a non-tank than Heavy.

Lets look at the passives assuming 7 pieces of each
Medium
5% attack speed
14% decreased dodge roll increased sprint speed
14% more stamina recovery
7% crit with physical attacks
7% reduction of cost of stamina abilities
reduction in sneak costs and detection (probably not relevant)

Heavy
7% armor and base spell resist
10% decreased cost of blocking
14% health recovery
3.5% Weapon Damage with melee attacks
3.5% Increased healing recieved

No mention of rotation or standing in stupid? Come on I know you are more eleite

kitsinni wrote: »

Burnemdown wrote: »

LOL Presumptions and assumptions. How do any of you know who was the weak link in this trial, without a shared dps meter? The forums? LoL.

They should have finished this as a team or disbanded completely.
I can also assume that the 2hand heavy was the only one not in the same guild as the op.

LOL

Just as a guess I don't think it was the 2 hand as much as the combination of 2 hand and Heavy Armor. Neither set does jack for class abilities so that is neutral. The synergies between medium and a stamina build are far better for a non-tank than Heavy.

Lets look at the passives assuming 7 pieces of each
Medium
5% attack speed
14% decreased dodge roll increased sprint speed
14% more stamina recovery
7% crit with physical attacks
7% reduction of cost of stamina abilities
reduction in sneak costs and detection (probably not relevant)

Heavy
7% armor and base spell resist
10% decreased cost of blocking
14% health recovery
3.5% Weapon Damage with melee attacks
3.5% Increased healing recieved

No mention of rotation or standing in stupid? Come on I know you are more elite then that.

Sorry, what was the point of your post?

kitsinni · July 2014

Wouldn't you think with all these posts about how this group leader was an elitist jerk someone would have chimed in with how someone would have done the DPS needed with this setup?

Phantax · July 2014

Valn wrote: »

Well this is disappointing, I've only attempted trials a few times, and I say attempted because people kept going offline etc, but today was more annoying because I found a good group, but they kicked me for wearing heavy armor + 2h (dps) after we wiped on the 3rd boss.

This was a pug group. The leader was asking for people in zone chat. This wasn't a guild run or world ranking world first or whatever. This was a casual pug group.

I'm not blaming the group leader, he wanted to complete the trial. But now I'm forced to choose a certain playstyle.

Nice one Zenimax, for being excluded because i'm not allowed to play the way I want.

edit: saw this come up and chuckled

"PLAY THE WAY YOU WANT TO PLAY" yeah... and don't get invited into any groups...rofl !

Not laughing at you OP, just the irony of what we were promised and what we ended up with !

TheBull · July 2014

Valn wrote: »

Well this is disappointing, I've only attempted trials a few times, and I say attempted because people kept going offline etc, but today was more annoying because I found a good group, but they kicked me for wearing heavy armor + 2h (dps) after we wiped on the 3rd boss.

This was a pug group. The leader was asking for people in zone chat. This wasn't a guild run or world ranking world first or whatever. This was a casual pug group.

I'm not blaming the group leader, he wanted to complete the trial. But now I'm forced to choose a certain playstyle.

Nice one Zenimax, for being excluded because i'm not allowed to play the way I want.

edit: saw this come up and chuckled

And people say the PvPrs are ***