Con64 wrote: »

Just a thought.

We don't mind so much in a single-player game if people have access to the developer tools. Or, heck, the console. It helps correct bugs the developer can't figure out, lets people create their own content, bypass bugs that haven't been fixed yet, etc...

Making the codebase available to any 'programmer' who asks for a MULTI-player game is ... well. The safest route would be to let players look over the quest scripting that breaks so often. Or at least make a few notables multi-player friendly (since a number broke if more than 1 person triggered it).

You'd have to really trust a programmer to let them at what is right now one of the biggest culprits - the communication between client and server.

terryammon wrote: »

I have spent years working C# Game servers and what he says is true, all C++ game servers have laggy pvp, its a byproduct of the coding language, Look at daoc, i believe that was C#, ESO has copied its complete PvP system, layout and design, even down to the point on what the towers look like, all the same, but on DAOC its called RvR, where Eso its AvA, Daoc 100-200 players in the same battle, minimal lag, Eso in C++ 100 people in a same battle, well dont think that has been achieved, server crashes... and dont forget, this was 10 years ago too, the host servers where slow compaired to the new cloud servers of today.

LOL !!! at least you managed to make me laugh like an idiot in front of my screen.
working on a daoc emulation server is very different from coding professionnally a game engine and server...
setting up servers does not make you an expert in programming languages nor game servers.
daoc was not in c#, only the emulation server was. when daoc was released, c# was so young that trying to sell any software made with it would be a huge mistake

you seem to nurture the notion that using modern "easier" languages will make you a better programmer. while it's quite the opposite.
C++ wont hold your hand, you will make epic mistakes, if you are sloppy, but you'll learn a lot from these mistakes. while you'll be even sloppier with languages like C# and never learn why, and how you should get better.

what your video shows is that C++ was not the culprit, it was the programmer that made the bug. it also show that camelot unchained will not be optimised at all, the tech guy is relying only on the computer raw power to compensate instead of optimising the code, and he basically says that the trusts more the c# interpreter more than he trusts the programming skills of his team mates when he explains why they chose c#...

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Saerydoth wrote: »

terryammon wrote: »

Saerydoth wrote: »

shiva7663 wrote: »

You say "just fix the bugs" as if that's supposed to be easy. sigh.

Yeah, that's the type of thing an armchair programmer that has never looked at code would say. Tell them to go through a few million lines of code and find the } that was supposed to be a ). I've actually seen complex programs derailed by less.

With C#, when building the core after a update, any errors like that stop the build and give you a error report, it will tell you, the error type, where the error is located, for example, Description of the error, file ScriptExample.cs Line 2301, Column 23.
Problem fixed next bug

LOL, noone uses C# for anything serious. All Microsoft did was take Java and change it just enough to not get sued. If your "programming" experience is limited to C# no wonder you don't get it.

This is the correct answer.

The .Net languages are toys for bedroom developers to knock up 'web apps', they're not serious tools.

This exactly. The responses from the armchair programmers in this thread that think they are experts because of junk like Visual Basic and C# are absolutely hillarious and have provided me with a significant amount of entertainment.

My roommate took a bunch of programming courses over the past few years (mainly just because he was bored- this is someone who is fairly technically minded but never did any programming until fairly recently, just to provide a point of view). The first few classes had him dealing primarily with Java and C#. He said C# was so limiting compared to real programming languages like C/C++ (which he has finally moved into) that he couldn't see it used for anything more serious than simple class projects. Most of the "promises" Microsoft makes about it (like saying it automatically frees memory) are also not true. Garabge collection in C# is a very laborious, hardware intensive process, because it has to be done completely manually. C# basically looks like someone that didn't know what they were doing tried to change Java just enough to not get sued.

Java on the other hand is useful for some things where extreme portability is needed, and performance isn't a concern, like web apps.

squeemu_ESO wrote: »

Saerydoth wrote: »

This exactly. The responses from the armchair programmers in this thread that think they are experts because of junk like Visual Basic and C# are absolutely hillarious and have provided me with a significant amount of entertainment.

I just can't get over how ludicrous it is to think that something like ESO would be programmed in a language like C#. Making a statement like that is akin to admitting you have no knowledge of the subject.

Yep, hence my lol comment the first time this was mentioned.

Saerydoth wrote: »

Garbage collection in C# is a very laborious, hardware intensive process, because it has to be done completely manually.

Kindly elaborate.

Surely the whole point of a memory garbage collector is that the deallocation process is automatic. In C++ the developer has to keep track of memory allocations and make sure they manually dealloc them.

There's a whole lot of drivel being spouted in this post - having coded in both C++ and C# I'm not going to get into a "this is better than that" discussion because it's frankly just a load of willy-waving.

Suffice to say that there could be some benefits to using C# to implement a game server but C++ would without a doubt be the preferred choice for implementing a game client.

The whole stuff about C++ & "laggy PVP" is complete twaddle though, although in fairness so is a lot of the stuff being posted here about C# as well.

sajackson wrote: »

What's wrong with C++?

++