Would you support a difficulty slider?

Saerydoth · July 2014

No

A difficulty slider for the game itself? No. However, I WOULD support different difficulties for dungeons and trials (raids). I don't really want to compare this game to WOW, but WOW (starting with 6.0) will have a very flexible system for raid difficulty.

LFR ("tourist" mode where you queue for it - you can afk through this and still win)
Normal (scales automatically between 10 and 30 players)
Heroic (scales automatically between 10 and 30 players)
Mythic (fixed 20 players, very hard mode for the best of the best)

Now, not all of this would work in ESO. But I could definitely see having a "normal" and "heroic" version of dungeons and trials, with the heroic versions offering better rewards.

Woolenthreads · July 2014

No

Not unless the difficulty slider starts with this current one as Level 1 and "It makes Veteran Elitist MMO Players cry" as Level 10

RatsnevE · July 2014

Yes

Kos wrote: »

This would be perfect. Achievements should indicate what level they were completed on by the way.

This brings to mind something I didn't like to see but certainly understand ZOS's choice. My first character play was through AD where I filled out many achievements pertaining to that alliance. I then started a second character in EP and discovered to my disappointment all of my achievements in AD lost as I fill out EP achievements. It's not any real problem because I'm not trying to play the game 100% by any means. If I was I'd have to embrace playing the AD character through VR through EP and DC and beyond and that isn't going to happen.

I will ask ZOS why achievements though couldn't be an aggregate for all characters played and not just one only?

Jankstar · July 2014

Yes

I would like the current difficulty to be easy. As the slider goes up the loot must not increase, cause that would undermine the increase in difficulty. Your difficulty setting would not be broadcast to other players either, cause you are doing it for the challenge alone. That would be my ideal.

KoroLahk · July 2014

Yes

Even if we just had two choices that started at Veteran content. Choose to go into the original VR content as it is now, or to enter the upcoming tweaked content.

This way people who enjoy the challenge of the current VR could still continue enjoying the content the way they like it, but those who aren't happy with the current truck-to-the-face curve could get into zones that are more suited to their liking.

cracker81 · July 2014

No

fosley_ESO wrote: »

Fleymark wrote: »

It's a MMO. Balance the game and difficulty sorts itself out.

No, it doesn't, and it never has. People have markedly different skill levels. You can't push a magical button and change that, so unless you implement some way for people both with lower skills and with higher skills to compete in a way that is difficult for them as an individual, you will never have appropriate difficulty for most players.

cracker81 wrote: »

Tell me that is not what happened in WoW. Ppl in raid finder pretty much same gear and the only had spam one key. Hell go to 25 man and only 10 had to spam one key.

cracker81 wrote: »

If you played wow they made heroics/raid heroics/then raid finder. I am sorry but if they just left it alone it would have been ok. Heroics worked for dungeons not raids so much.

WoW has heroic modes that are harder than any content in vanilla, and they are able to do this because of the existence of other difficulties. And at the same time, they are able to make the content accessible to a far greater number of players, also because of the other difficulties. For every "waaaa, catering to casuals is bad because I don't feel special anymore" post, there are a hundred "thank you Blizzard for letting us play on a difficulty commensurate with our experience and time constraints" posts (and a thousand more people just enjoying the content that appeals to them).

cracker81 wrote: »

Why? Hmm. Let say I suck at pve can't do some stuff what others can do but get the same gear..is that fair?

cracker81 wrote: »

Then everyone is wear same gear just make it one difficulty, if you can't complete then well keep trying. If 90% have the item then what makes it special?

Except it doesn't have to be the same gear, so those comments are irrelevant, and the people who have no chance of completing content aren't going keep trying, they're going to quit playing so they can do something that's actually fun and engaging for them.

cracker81 wrote: »

Next time when I am doing mma I will ask the guy that can beat me to be Nerfed. Lol. Like put one arm behind his back.

They already do this, in pretty much every type of sport in existence. Weight classes, rankings, sex, age. Anything that would make a fight ridiculously one-sided is prevented as best as possible. Because if there isn't some reasonable chance of either side winning the fight, why bother fighting, rooting, or watching?

cracker81 wrote: »

Push yourself to get better, I hate bums or ppl that think they should have what others earned. I take this as a slap in the face. Look at wow and go there u can have raid finder.

Everyone who bought the game has earned the exact same thing you have: a game that should be fun *for them*. Your money isn't somehow more valuable because you may or may not be a better than average player.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with people mooching off your effort, forcing you to work harder so they can do nothing and get some of your rewards. This has everything to do with giving people more options to play a *video game* that is all about entertainment, in a way that is fun for them, while doing nothing to your experience.

And your continued use of WoW as an "argument" makes you look even more absurd. WoW is the most successful MMO to date. You don't have to like it, play it, or want to play it. But it clearly does something right, or it wouldn't still be going strong 10 years later. Plus, every complaint you've had about WoW has been utterly unfounded, like you're just throwing a catch-phrase out there with no concept of what you're talking about.

The problem is this:
If they leave everything at a level where a huge chunk of the playerbase is effectively barred from three-quarters of the content because of the extreme difficulty spike, those people will leave because there's nothing for them to do.

If they nerf everything to a level where 95% of the playerbase can complete it, a huge chunk of the more skilled playerbase will have nothing meaningful to do, so they'll leave.

In either case, the game loses players, the company makes less money, the game is unable to progress as well due to a lack of funds, and the game becomes less fun for whoever is left.

One obvious solution, that has worked very well for *many* games in the past, both single-player and multiplayer, is to have some way to adjust the difficulty to at least somewhat cater to individual preference, thereby giving more people meaningful content, losing fewer players, making more revenue, and making a better game for the players still playing.

Anyone is free to post an alternative solution, or post legitimate criticism with this one (preferably with an idea of fixing the problem). But stop pretending that "I want to feel like a special snowflake", "I'm not sure how the technical details would work", or "I'm not having trouble with the current system so nobody else should be" are valid arguments.

You say the heroic raid were more difficult than original or Bc yet ppl spent months on them. C'thun could night die till he was Nerf. Ppl still could not clear sun well till lvl 85 it was for lvl 70 ppl. 1 x person out of 25 man die on lady vashj everyone is good as dead. Everyone has their opinion.

Doesn't have to be I sure it would be.

It makes it even class are pretty close balance and yet ppl yell Nerf.

Like I said on other post I don't care as long as doesn't go crazy.

DeLindsay · July 2014

Yes

cracker81 wrote: »

You say the heroic raid were more difficult than original or Bc yet ppl spent months on them. C'thun could night die till he was Nerf. Ppl still could not clear sun well till lvl 85 it was for lvl 70 ppl. 1 x person out of 25 man die on lady vashj everyone is good as dead. Everyone has their opinion.

Doesn't have to be I sure it would be.

It makes it even class are pretty close balance and yet ppl yell Nerf.

Like I said on other post I don't care as long as doesn't go crazy.

What people are you talking about? I started in TBC and the nerf of ALL raids about 1-1/2 months before WotLK launched made even Sunwell easymode, AT 70. We were running it for the lols at 80 with half ICC gear with 8 players just to try and get the legendaries.

cracker81 · July 2014

No

I did it at lvl 70 when it came out before Nerf. Ppl would put a pug together at 85 and still wipe on 3rd boss lol.
Did you play lady vashj before Nerf? The content has now in heroic did not notice it was a heroic.

DeLindsay · July 2014

Yes

cracker81 wrote: »

I did it at lvl 70 when it came out before Nerf. Ppl would put a pug together at 85 and still wipe on 3rd boss lol.
Did you play lady vashj before Nerf? The content has now in heroic did not notice it was a heroic.

No I hit 70 the same week of the nerfs pre-WotLK so me and my buddy were basically carried through all TBC raids in one evening.

cracker81 · July 2014

No

Out all mmo's I would say lady vashj was the best raid boss encounter in my opinion.every had a roll (off topic)

fosley_ESO · July 2014

Yes

Bad players being incapable of downing content aimed at better players doesn't somehow mean the content was harder than other content that would be equally impossible to those same bad players. And glitched encounters like C'Thun don't help your argument either.

Old content did have more artificial gating, so yeah, there was more time involved, and you could call that "difficulty". But the mechanics themselves (the engaging, fun difficulty) were lacking compared to current content for the most part. Certainly, modern raiding has in no way been diminished by the inclusion of easier raid modes.

And, in this case, easy mode is happening whether you like it or not. Because gating tons of major content away from worse players isn't the answer. So what we're trying to do is retain hard mode after those more casual players get their easier content that suits them.

cracker81 · July 2014

No

I know this will most likely happen, I am just living in the past where I could admire someone that went the distances and it was a mystery on what it was like to take down such a thing. When I did it felt as though I have conquered the world. Knowing only a few have seen it, fewer have encountered it, and fewer even beat it. Some of it was about the loot, some about the challenge, some about the mystery and doing something many could not do. When they made the easy button the mystery went away, challenge stayed if you went heroic, the loot was just the same with better stats and not being struck in ah at a person that did just that but a gratz. I think the mystery/unexpected behind it is what drove me and knowing not all would experience it till Nerf. I don't want to be a hero or nothing just want to accomplish things what few have with the mystery behind it. Not knowing, journeying to places I never been,the unexpected. That is most likely why I love my job in IRL it is like I am RP my own life, some ppl play games on what I do. I apologize that I went off topic and i will still play when ESO decides to do so. Might see most of you in there and thank you for you enlightening me On your opinion. I truly do understand where you are coming from, I wanted it in WoW until I seen DW get face roll by one button (I am mixed on the subject because I don't know the right answer). I want everyone to experience the content but at what expense. I wish I could put yes/no - see where eso takes us and enjoy the ride. How would you make it?

Cogo · July 2014

No

I do not want ESO to become anything like wow or other games where ONLY going fast to highest level is the only thing to aim for.

That removes everything in ESO, except high end content and pvp.

I am not saying Highest level, best raids and pvp is not important. THEY ARE. They are a core part of ESO. JUST like alot of other things.

IF the game becomes silly to level......it becomes wow, either you like it or not.

Regarding high end raiding and MMO. If it is a challenge to get to high end level, ALL the way, then at high end raids, you have players with skills to do these events.

Again, WoW has not. Tell me that WoW raiders who get to highest lvl in 2 seconds, Would even start to understand the teamwork and tactics needed for ESO lvl 12-16 Instanced dungeon? Yes, a few, those who does HEROIC raiding, will.

The 95% rest of WoW high lvl, high geared players, would call our first newbie instanced dungeon for "fail".

THIS is what I am concerned for.

AleriSadasIndoril · July 2014

Yes

but only for higher difficulty, an additional Hard Mode button to activate.

Cogo · July 2014

No

This is an MMO. Making a "hard mode" button for the world is very very tricky!
Its simple when you do an INSTANCED dungeon. Just like we have now.
They can add that. But still, easy mode need to give low exp, low gear.

Hard needs to give higher, and better. :-)

And again. Those of you who wants fast level. When they get Cyro working and there are battles as they promised. You get to much exp just by killing players its silly.

NOTE, you need to be in a large group for this.

Cogo · July 2014

No

Fleymark wrote: »

No way.

It's a MMO. Balance the game and difficulty sorts itself out.

Dude....I wish more people simply would understand this. Like it or not. That a fact! To many MMOs have shown that

Balance the game is Zenimax job. Difficulty is OUR job. Cant do something? Then go figure out how.

In ESO help section. Where it explains to new players what ESO is. It says the same thing. Something to hard? Get a level. Think about a tactic. Try something else. Bring a friend?

That true AND that is what MMO balancing itself means.

Last 5-6 years, players become to used to addons or mechanics to do everything for them. Nothing wrong with that if you want it!

But I am sorry, those who beat the hardest raids, the hardest encounters. Do it because their bloody skilled. Can have every addon or whatever.

But take away their addons....they would still succeed.
Ive seen posts here, that say, its impossible to play without addons.

No its not. People are just not used to try a weapon on a mob. See how it goes.
Then try another. and see how that goes. And then they cant see the difference unless an addon tells them the damage.

I am not against addons!!!!!!! Use em!!!!

But saying that you cant figure out your damage without knowing the numbers, is wrong.

How did I figure it out? No one told me, no google, no addons. I tried and tested and it takes time and effort! Yes! Guess what. I have been able to do things I didnt think I was good enough for. JUST because of the Vet 1 area difficulty.

SFBryan18 · July 2014

No

I already pointed out that there is currently a hard button in the game. It's called not using your attributes or higher level armor. Craft the lower level stuff and don't spend your attribute points. And for even more difficulty, don't use passive abilities. I think the biggest challenge for some of you is using your brain to see what already exists.

nerevarine1138 · July 2014

No

MeowGinger wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

MeowGinger wrote: »

AlexDougherty wrote: »

I chose No.

I can't see how you can change the difficulty for you without it changing it for everyone. It's an online game, you can't change it for each player, and if you could, it would probably cause terrible lag.

Which is why there would be different instances, each instance having players with the same difficulty setting

And the complaints that people already have about grouping would just disappear!

The whole point of the megaserver system is to not segregate the population like that.

They would disappear if there was no longer any need for grouping (besides grouping for dolmens and world bosses) if there was a lower difficulty setting.

As it is I can do (most) things solo, but I wouldn't mind actually having room for error and not having to play optimally -- switching to staff instead of dual wield, capping 2 attributes and 2 recoveries, upgrading player-crafted and enchanted set gear to epic, absolutely needing to play with player-made multiple-effect food and potions, (of course) dodging and interrupting and blocking and sneaking (when my pathetic stamina pool with depletes like it's nothing) -- at all times.

I personally wouldn't mind a segregated population, either. And to be fair, the population is already segregated because there are multiple instances for veteran content as it is, spreading out the already-small population too thin. (Evidence of this found by relogging to farm motifs and ingredients, which don't respawn upon login to the same instance, and also watching zone chat during prime hours to see if the same people are in that instance.)

1) This is an MMO. Group content is essential.

2) I played through VR12 on my dual-wield/bow NB without ever using player-made food. You can also play without crafting gear. Gear has very little to do with your effectiveness in combat.

3) Segregating the population further just makes grouping harder, and there are not multiple instances of VR content (at least not at the higher levels, where the population tends to be lower). Relogging resets containers for you. It has nothing to do with you entering a different instance, because the containers are unique to each player.

Cogo · July 2014

No

cracker81 wrote: »

Out all mmo's I would say lady vashj was the best raid boss encounter in my opinion.every had a roll (off topic)

Ever did Battle for mount Hijyal? When it was new and not nerfed? I STILL have the youtube to show it. Server first kill!!! Took us a month..more I think.

Vashj.....ugh!!!! Yes, she was a freakin pain! But I loved it that you needed to key the key from her to get into Black temple.

Illidan was crap! We took him in like the second raid day. Spend weeks in Black temple. But last boss? Bom....yep glades did drop. I was a shaman healer though so.....

I can pm you the link to the youtube fight if you want. I still get goose bumps watching it. That wow is faaaaar gone.

fosley_ESO · July 2014

Yes

Cogo wrote: »

I do not want ESO to become anything like wow or other games where ONLY going fast to highest level is the only thing to aim for.

WoW has quite a bit to do without being max level, but I agree, I like games where you have something to do at any level. Unfortunately, the really hardcore challenges *need* to be at max level, or you can just out-level or out-gear them and they're no longer hardcore challenges. You can use scaling (EQ2 mentoring, or WoW challenge modes), but if you just scale everything, there's no point in even having levels, and if you can scale it, you can also apply difficulty levels to it.

Regarding high end raiding and MMO. If it is a challenge to get to high end level, ALL the way, then at high end raids, you have players with skills to do these events.

The skilled players will be skilled regardless, and the less-skilled players who have the time and interest in becoming skilled will do so regardless. The players who aren't viable for high-end raiding will just quit rather than become good enough to continue. So yeah, the percentage of skilled players goes up, but it is the culling of bad players, not the creation of good players, that causes it. If you're trying to build an elite army to defend a nation, culling the baddies is a good thing. If you're in the entertainment industry, it's a bad thing.

Cogo wrote: »

That true AND that is what MMO balancing itself means.

But that's not balance. That's simply losing subscribers until the people who are left are the ones who enjoy the game as it is. Obviously, you'll always have some of that, but you can balance the game initially so it has something for every type of player, and retain a much larger playerbase.

Cogo wrote: »

Ive seen posts here, that say, its impossible to play without addons.

I'm sure those posts exist, but it's more an issue of enjoyability than possibility. I literally would not play this game without a FoV hack, because it's not fun at the stock setting. Could I force myself to play? Sure. But why, when I can do something else that is fun? Things like Craftstore eliminate the tedium of maintaining my own spreadsheets. Things like Azurah let me re-position elements of my screen to maintain information while making the world more immersive. Do I *need* them? No. But they will keep the game enjoyable for far longer.

Cogo wrote: »

But saying that you cant figure out your damage without knowing the numbers, is wrong.

You don't need in-game addons to find the numbers, but you really do need the numbers to do any kind of theorycrafting. In-game addons can make finding those numbers orders of magnitude faster, and allow us to get to the part where we apply theory to gameplay much sooner, and so they are "mandatory" in the "why wouldn't you do it this way?" line of thought, even if they aren't strictly required.

SFBryan18 wrote: »

I already pointed out that there is currently a hard button in the game. It's called not using your attributes or higher level armor.

Taking customization away in an already-minimalistic game isn't a particularly fun way to add challenge. And for those who want to compete, it is ridiculously easy to exploit.

SFBryan18 · July 2014

No

fosley_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

I already pointed out that there is currently a hard button in the game. It's called not using your attributes or higher level armor.

Taking customization away in an already-minimalistic game isn't a particularly fun way to add challenge. And for those who want to compete, it is ridiculously easy to exploit.

I thought this was about PvE difficulty? How could they change the level of difficulty in PvP? That level is set by the players in the game. Removing your health and magic attributes would not change anything about your character other than the health and magic, so if you want more difficulty, that's what you can do.

DeLindsay · July 2014

Yes

SFBryan18 wrote: »

fosley_ESO wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

I already pointed out that there is currently a hard button in the game. It's called not using your attributes or higher level armor.

Taking customization away in an already-minimalistic game isn't a particularly fun way to add challenge. And for those who want to compete, it is ridiculously easy to exploit.

I thought this was about PvE difficulty? How could they change the level of difficulty in PvP? That level is set by the players in the game. Removing your health and magic attributes would not change anything about your character other than the health and magic, so if you want more difficulty, that's what you can do.

This IS about a PvE difficulty choice. The problem is some players can't be bothered to read the posts and automatically think it's either to make PvP easier or an "I win" button for PvE, neither of which are being asked for.

GreySix · July 2014

Yes

fosley_ESO wrote: »

And, in this case, easy mode is happening whether you like it or not. Because gating tons of major content away from worse players isn't the answer. So what we're trying to do is retain hard mode after those more casual players get their easier content that suits them.

Concur. Those who oppose player choice at all costs are the driving force for the nerfing of all content.

fosley_ESO · July 2014

Yes

SFBryan18 wrote: »

I thought this was about PvE difficulty? How could they change the level of difficulty in PvP?

I meant like "My guild beat your guild at clearing Craglorne" competition.

If they're just nerfing world npcs, it wouldn't matter much. But then you still wouldn't want to spend a bazillion gold respeccing to run trials with all your passives and so forth, then respeccing to do quests without, ad nauseum.

Razzak · July 2014

Yes

Yes, but I would support exp gain slider even more.

Loco_Mofo · July 2014

Yes

What about a reward slider?

Game could certainly use it me thinks.

SFBryan18 · July 2014

No

How about a dimensional slider which takes you to a parallel universe like in the show Sliders? :P

Wolfshead · July 2014

badmojo wrote: »

Their goal was to group us up, if we're not grouping for whatever reasons, give people an option to group with an NPC.

The goal was never to group but the want to encourage player to group up the have say that never have as goal but the encourage player to group up to make it easy to complete thing.

RatsnevE · July 2014

Yes

It is impractical for an experienced group of three to pull in a casual solo NB low on strategy going up against mobs in private dungeons. This has ruined several private dungeons I've tried and no wonder I don't get invited often when groups have already formed up. Restricting the PvE dungeons to 4 maximum period is a mistake. So I've tried private dungeons at least once if I can luck out and find a group but I've been quite unsuccessful with them, they aren't fun, and everyone in the groups races ahead of me leaving me feeling like I'm no real part of the group--which is true.

nudel · July 2014

Yes

RatsnevE wrote: »

It is impractical for an experienced group of three to pull in a casual solo NB low on strategy going up against mobs in private dungeons. This has ruined several private dungeons I've tried and no wonder I don't get invited often when groups have already formed up. Restricting the PvE dungeons to 4 maximum period is a mistake. So I've tried private dungeons at least once if I can luck out and find a group but I've been quite unsuccessful with them, they aren't fun, and everyone in the groups races ahead of me leaving me feeling like I'm no real part of the group--which is true.

You're grouping with the wrong people RatsnevE. Not everyone dungeons like that.