Would you support a difficulty slider?

demenzia

Yes

Yes, so noobs will stop complaining about difficulty and evil mudcrabs. Maybe...At least their moaning won't affect those who know how to play.

jamespetchonka821b14_ESO

No

Of course not. A difficulty slider in an MMO is a ridiculous idea.

Cody

Yes

the game is(supposed) to be about freedom of choice. only makes sense to have a difficulty slider in it, though it may cause problems in group play.

DeLindsay

Yes

jamespetchonka821b14_ESO wrote: »

Of course not. A difficulty slider in an MMO is a ridiculous idea.

Alright, explain to us all why it's such a ridiculous idea? If the technology exists to allow some players to experience the game on a harder difficulty than other players why is this a bad idea, the floor is yours.

nerevarine1138

No

nudel wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

MeowGinger wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Is anyone actually going to explain how this would work in an MMO?

You can't scale difficulty without making [x] instances (where [x] is the number of difficulty options) of the world. Which is absolutely idiotic.

To be fair, I think two instances would be sufficient. Of course, I realize the downsides (stress on the server, we would see fewer players at a time). I do not see what makes it idiotic.

The fact that people are already complaining about having a hard time finding a group. And we're not even getting in to the insane level of restructuring the developers would need to do: new scaling, new mechanics, new quest rewards, new loot drop mechanics, new everything.

This isn't a single-player game. Difficulty sliders ain't happening.

The devs already said in The Road Ahead--May 1 they plan to have scaling for the group dungeons which would scale the dungeon to the party leader. Would this not simply be an extension of that?

No. Not even a little.

That idea is to scale the level of the enemies to one specific person in a party. It's not even remotely comparable to scaling enemy stats/abilities within one level and creating separate instances for every player within a specific difficulty level.

Difficulty sliders and MMOs don't mix. I don't know why this is a hard thing to understand.

The_Sadist

No

DeLindsay wrote: »

jamespetchonka821b14_ESO wrote: »

Of course not. A difficulty slider in an MMO is a ridiculous idea.

Alright, explain to us all why it's such a ridiculous idea? If the technology exists to allow some players to experience the game on a harder difficulty than other players why is this a bad idea, the floor is yours.

Because this is an MMO seems to be solid enough.

In terms of dungeon orientated games (DDO or the Diablo series) adding a 'difficultly' setting makes sense and generally promoted. But in a game like ESO where it's mostly open world and whatnot that's would be extremely ridiculous. Think of the coding, how challenging it would be and how many months, if not years, would they'd need to perfect it? Another issue is playing the game on easy mode just to jump into the hard mode for gear and whatnot, only to jump back and kill the easy 'hard' boss. The whole concept doesn't mesh very well.

If you want to play a single player game, go for it, but if you're playing an MMO or have MMO experience, you'll know that the idea of settings is pretty iffy at best. I don't even know how this thread actually exists, but I keep forgetting ESO players often came from consoles and have unrealistic expectations.

SienneYviete

No

Simple solution let us hire the PvP mercs those guys were pretty badass.

Crisscross

Chatoyancy wrote: »

Out of curiosity, are there any existing MMOs that have a difficulty slider? If so, how well does it work in those MMOs?

The cryptic games, Champions Online and STO are the ones I know of. I never played them much, but from what I can tell it only really worked because the content there is heavily instanced (at least in STO), so players could experience things individually. In an open world game, I'm not exactly sure how it'd work. There seems like alot of opportunity for the system to be flawed and exploitable at worst, and immersion breaking at best.

UPrime

Yes

Difficulty slider would be nice, but generally in MMO's they only can work in instanced maps and would affect the whole group. There's no easy way to make it work without exploits out in the open world.

Why? Because you need to give some benefit to playing while you're debuffed/nerfed by having your difficulty set higher. But you shouldn't get that reward if others are helping that are on regular difficulty otherwise you would either have exploits of kill stealing. So the ductility slider would only really work in dungeons. And that is probably where it's needed most.

Anilahation

No

Sounds like something horrible that just makes my character weaker and gives the same rewards.

I'll pass.

Still_Mind

Yes

Yes, in instanced\phased content. But I fully expect Nightmare\Legendary difficulty to have drops scale accordingly. Not necessarily towards uber-powerful gear - some nice rare materials, style books, recepies, etc.

fosley_ESO

Yes

There are many games that use multiple difficulties for instanced content, including ESO (vet zones are already a second/third difficulty for most content). Generally, the more difficult the setting, the better the rewards, whether we're talking experience gain, loot, or both.

Multiple difficulties for world content would be a bit trickier. You could instance the world per difficulty, which wouldn't be hard from a mechanical standpoint, but could lower the population around the player. I don't really see that being a bad thing though. If you're looking for a challenge, playing with a group isn't helping, and if the easy content is easy, the casuals shouldn't really have any trouble soloing stuff. And if you just want to group up with friends, then group up and select a difficulty that you can manage, and you're all playing together, yay.

You could also give easy-mode players a buff that enables them to do more damage to and/or take less damage from npcs. Then scale experience gains depending on how much damage was done by easy mode players versus hard mode players, and it can't really be exploited. It could be annoying if you're trying to find a challenge and nine easy-mode players come over and annihilate your target, but nine other players already trivializes the content, so that's not a new issue.

Another thing that could be done, is to implement a lot more per-player instancing during quests, then make the world enemies fairly easy. Then, add a difficulty slider that only affects instanced areas, and hard-mode players will still have a challenge in their hard-mode questing areas, while the casuals can have fun at their own pace. This could already be useful in things like the guild and main story quests, which were trivial for some of us, and horribly difficult for others, and there's currently no way to get help except by out-leveling the content.

Yet another option would be to go the extra mile, and have a hard-mode option that not only makes enemies harder, but puts you in a different phase from all the players around you. Then you would be guaranteed to solo all the content on hard-mode. Exceptions for group content such as public dungeons, dolmens, and possibly world bosses would make sense here. On this note, the option to bring other players along to help with currently solo-only quests could be beneficial for more casual players.

Not everyone plays games for a challenge, and of those who like a challenge, not all of them have the time or interest to become good enough to play on the hardest difficulties. And for those who are more competent, easy mode is boring mode. That's why games in general have had difficulty options for decades -- because gaming is about fun, so if you're not having fun, why play?

"Learn to play" is a valid sentiment in some cases, but not here. It's like saying 8-year-old kids can't go play baseball in the local park because they're not good enough to compete with MLB players. They could get to that level if they really tried, but most people just want to have some fun at the level they're currently at, rather than throwing their face at a brick wall that shows no signs of budging any time soon.

Loco_Mofo

Yes

Yes, it's needed now that they're dumbing down the game.

Blackwidow

Yes

I probably would never use it, but I am 100% of options for all.

brandon

Yes

I voted yes for the sole reason that ZOS is going to make vet difficulty easier, so I want to be able to make it harder if I so choose.

Soloeus

Yes

I would want this to only be an option for Solo Dungeons and Quests.

1. As long as there is no change in Loot/Exp then yes I support it. Games are about fun so give people more customization over their experience.

2. For groups, let the group finder tool set the slider and find players looking for the same difficulty; or let the group leader set it.

3. For PVP, let it be as it is right now, there should be no "easier/harder." The real challenge in PVP is about fighting players. There is PVE in Cyrodil however there wouldn't be a good reason to allow this function in Cyrodil.

4. For Craglorn, yes.

DeLindsay

Yes

The_Sadist wrote: »

Because this is an MMO seems to be solid enough.

In terms of dungeon orientated games (DDO or the Diablo series) adding a 'difficultly' setting makes sense and generally promoted. But in a game like ESO where it's mostly open world and whatnot that's would be extremely ridiculous. Think of the coding, how challenging it would be and how many months, if not years, would they'd need to perfect it? Another issue is playing the game on easy mode just to jump into the hard mode for gear and whatnot, only to jump back and kill the easy 'hard' boss. The whole concept doesn't mesh very well.

If you want to play a single player game, go for it, but if you're playing an MMO or have MMO experience, you'll know that the idea of settings is pretty iffy at best. I don't even know how this thread actually exists, but I keep forgetting ESO players often came from consoles and have unrealistic expectations.

You do know that ESO already employs a form of difficulty slider don't you? If you go to a Dolmen in that open world you talk about by yourself, and are the only player present the Dolmen is scaled in difficulty to one player. If a second player shows up but just stands there, too bad, the Dolmen scales on the next enemy spawn to TWO players so the first player who is solo'ing at that point may end up dying.

What skin is it off your back if some players want the choice to flip a switch to increase the difficulty of a certain encounter, or area. The system is already capable of coping with additional characters on map (as in within range of said encounter) and adjusting the difficulty on the fly. I would fully support this idea as long as the lowest difficulty was no lower than what everyone gets at default. Then players could choose to INCREASE the difficulty as they saw fit.

The_Sadist

No

fosley_ESO wrote: »

[words]
Not everyone plays games for a challenge, and of those who like a challenge, not all of them have the time or interest to become good enough to play on the hardest difficulties. And for those who are more competent, easy mode is boring mode. That's why games in general have had difficulty options for decades -- because gaming is about fun, so if you're not having fun, why play?

"Learn to play" is a valid sentiment in some cases, but not here. It's like saying 8-year-old kids can't go play baseball in the local park because they're not good enough to compete with MLB players. They could get to that level if they really tried, but most people just want to have some fun at the level they're currently at, rather than throwing their face at a brick wall that shows no signs of budging any time soon.

While I find your post interesting and if they ever implement a difficulty slider they should definitely look into your suggestions, I'm just going to have away at the last few paragraphs.

Not everyone does, agree, however this is an MMORPG, there's a distant difference between playing a single player game and a game which is meant to be competitive and challenging as your character progresses. If you don't have the time to invest into the game, odds are you'll never hit endgame and therefore what does it matter? The veteran rank 1 zone is a big step up from pre veteran zones and it progresses, I'm personally almost at the rank 6 zone on my rank 8.5 Sorcerer and I'm told 9-10 is incredibility challenging.. But that's okay because I'm used to the progressively more difficult gameplay that traditionally occurs in MMOs and games in general. Fun is a relative term, you mightn't find grinding fun but I do, likewise, a person might find easy mode boring because the challenge is fun. Competitive and challenging gameplay keeps MMOs interesting, if you're playing casually the game shouldn't cater to your needs.. This is an MMO, not a single player game.

It's entirely valid. I had to step up and drop a few less useful spells in order to complete content and progress. The difference here is the 8 year old kids know the MLB players are currently playing at the local park and yet still feel the need to go to said park and complain regardless. If you want to stay pre veteran rank content you can do so by making 1 character for each faction and completing said faction. Yes you're not using the same character.. but make the same race and use a similar name or something. That way the 'casuals' can experience MOST content and those who actually know how an MMO works aren't hindered by individuals who want the game to be easy enough for someone with a few hours a week to complete at a decent pace.

The game is getting easier regardless, but still, it's a silly change. Learn to play IS justifiable in most cases. Your Stamina based NB WILL struggle in veteran zones, changing accordingly is required. Yes that means you're not playing how you want.. but, my pure healer can't complete content, that doesn't mean it's the game's fault.

DeLindsay

Yes

@The_Sadist I honestly think you are the only person here that thinks people are asking for a toggle/slider to make the game EASIER. Every post I've read, and my own personal opinion also, is that we would like to see an option to make it HARDER as we chose to. And your'e incorrect on just about every level in regards to MMO's. Every MMO I've played has variable difficulty options for certain things like instanced dungeons/raids. Some you have to kill (or not kill) so-and-so enemy to enable "hard mode" others you literally flip a switch before entering the instance that you WANT "Heroic, expert, etc" including ESO.

Why is so hard to grasp that some people want MORE challenge than others do?

The_Sadist

No

DeLindsay wrote: »

You do know that ESO already employs a form of difficulty slider don't you? If you go to a Dolmen in that open world you talk about by yourself, and are the only player present the Dolmen is scaled in difficulty to one player. If a second player shows up but just stands there, too bad, the Dolmen scales on the next enemy spawn to TWO players so the first player who is solo'ing at that point may end up dying.

What skin is it off your back if some players want the choice to flip a switch to increase the difficulty of a certain encounter, or area. The system is already capable of coping with additional characters on map (as in within range of said encounter) and adjusting the difficulty on the fly. I would fully support this idea as long as the lowest difficulty was no lower than what everyone gets at default. Then players could choose to INCREASE the difficulty as they saw fit.

I do indeed know that, but that sort of aspect is completely justifiable in my opinion, hell, I think they need to increase the speed at which the Daedra appear when more individuals gather about, it would increase the challenge further. But that difficulty slider is completely different to an entire game sort of thing.

No skin off my back at all, but I've never seen an open world with adjustable difficulty and I don't see the point of it. I'd also rather they (obviously being ZeniMax) focus on actual content, fixes and expansions as opposed to dedicating time to creating multilayer systems on a single mega server based on how difficult an individual wants a certain zone to be, potentially at whim, at any given time.

DeLindsay wrote: »

@The_Sadist I honestly think you are the only person here that thinks people are asking for a toggle/slider to make the game EASIER. Every post I've read, and my own personal opinion also, is that we would like to see an option to make it HARDER as we chose to. And your'e incorrect on just about every level in regards to MMO's. Every MMO I've played has variable difficulty options for certain things like instanced dungeons/raids. Some you have to kill (or not kill) so-and-so enemy to enable "hard mode" others you literally flip a switch before entering the instance that you WANT "Heroic, expert, etc" including ESO.

Why is so hard to grasp that some people want MORE challenge than others do?

Not hard to grasp, I just don't see the point. Unless you're a hardcore individual who has 4 veteran rank 12 classes all of which you've levelled by questing / PvP and not via experience exploits I'm not sure why you'd want even more challenging encounters, good luck soloing that extremely beefed up rank 12 Storm Atronach. What's that? You don't want to do this quest on hardcore mode? Too bad, you're soloing it on hardcore mode despite changing your settings to easy.

Every MMO has variable difficulty options for CERTAIN THINGS = / = OPEN WORLD. I stated I've played games which have difficulty settings for dungeons and whatnot and used two games as examples for a more 'choose your own difficulty' play through experience. ESO has veteran and normal dungeons currently. I can see another layer of elite or something being added but who knows.

I don't have the energy for this discussion. The concept doesn't make sense for an open world situation and if it did happen it would take a length time regardless. Like I said, if it did happen I want players who select the hard mode to be forced into completing quests and whatnot in hard mode and not be able to change to easy mode, or an easier mode, if it's too hard for them. Have the cake and being forced to eat it.

Razour

No

It's an MMO - there needs to be a level playing field; besides how would that even work with group play?

DeLindsay

Yes

The_Sadist wrote: »

Like I said, if it did happen I want players who select the hard mode to be forced into completing quests and whatnot in hard mode and not be able to change to easy mode, or an easier mode, if it's too hard for them. Have the cake and being forced to eat it.

Even the toggled, instanced hard modes in various MMO's can be changed back down if they players come across a boss they just can't beat. Still and like I said, if the technology exists why not. If some players would like the option to make the game harder as a whole or in part and the lowest difficulty is no lower than it is right now then I'm for it. Certainly there are other things ZoS needs to spend time on like FPS in Cyro, game bugs, etc but it's not at all a bad idea for a future project.

DeLindsay

Yes

Razour wrote: »

It's an MMO - there needs to be a level playing field; besides how would that even work with group play?

Just like it does in every other MMO that has variable difficulty for instanced content. The group leader would decide what difficulty they were playing on at that time. As for level playing field, in PvP yes, there should be no adjustment what so ever. PvE who cares, if some people want uber hard mode, let them have the choice of it.

The_Sadist

No

DeLindsay wrote: »

Even the toggled, instanced hard modes in various MMO's can be changed back down if they players come across a boss they just can't beat. Still and like I said, if the technology exists why not. If some players would like the option to make the game harder as a whole or in part and the lowest difficulty is no lower than it is right now then I'm for it. Certainly there are other things ZoS needs to spend time on like FPS in Cyro, game bugs, etc but it's not at all a bad idea for a future project.

I'm aware, but if ZeniMax is putting countless hours into a system which I won't use, obviously I want the people who want this system to suffer.

Joking aside, I can see people using the setting to do hard content until a particularly difficult monster appears, changing their settings, killing said monster and changing back to hard for the extra loot / experience / whatever. If the system didn't yield a drop / experience benefit I can't complain, but if it did I'd be relatively annoyed. Perhaps something akin to once entering a zone you're given three options in terms of difficulty which can't be changed until the zone is completed / a certain amount of time has elapsed or something, that way if you decide to do hard you have to stick it out and not change at whim.

I just don't see it working in an open world game, it would make grouping more difficult and whatnot.

I'm curious to what level you are and if you have any alts.

DeLindsay

Yes

The_Sadist wrote: »

I'm curious to what level you are and if you have any alts.

I've got a VR8 NB that finished the entirety of Cadwell's Almanac at VR7 and I'm AD so my VR10 boss was that horrible Imperial lady in DC that spawns 20 skeletons. I also have a full compliment of 7 alts at various levels, no 2nd VR yet. I get bored on one toon too easy and jump to another, and I'm a crafting *** so I'm always doing stuff there that takes time away from leveling. Also I have 8 characters on EU (highest is 28) as well as NA and bounce around on both servers daily.

I am partially disabled so although I work when I can it's not 40-50 hours a week like I did most of my life, which gives me time to play ESO, bonus right. Oh and I got up to VR6 as a ST Bow-Medium Armor-NB before ANY of the NB fixes and before Craglorn launched, then switched to Stick & Skirt to finish Cadwell's Almanac.

TRIP233

No

jamie.goddenrwb17_ESO wrote: »

I have no idea how you would make that work in an mmo without affecting everyone around you... If someone could come up with a way I suppose I...would?

You can't make it where it doesn't affect everyone around you. It wouldn't be possible, that is why I voted, "No".

Gwarok

No

TRIP233 wrote: »

You can't make it where it doesn't affect everyone around you. It wouldn't be possible, that is why I voted, "No".

^This^ I dont want ez-mode

#Content /Faceroll

Ashchild

Yes

Gwarok wrote: »

TRIP233 wrote: »

You can't make it where it doesn't affect everyone around you. It wouldn't be possible, that is why I voted, "No".

^This^ I dont want ez-mode

#Content /Faceroll

With the upcoming nerfs to VR difficulty, you may have no choice.

A slider would offer somewhat of a choice for VR content.

But for it to be remotely feasible, it would have to effect the player and not the mobs. Those who switch on easy, would probably get an innate damage reduction.

Of course when people will reflect upon that, they will probably all do it to be more powerful, and feel more badass. I don't see many resisting the urge to enable it:P

Then people will complain about the lack of rewards for "staying hardcore".

EinionYrth

Yes

I voted yes - but I don't think it can be done. Sadly the alternative I see happening is an increasingly heavy nerf bat that will leave the game too easy even for me, and my epeen is a tiny shrivelled little thing I assure you.

demonlkojipub19_ESO

Yes

badmojo wrote: »

Yes, BUT! I don't think a slider itself would work very well in this game.

I think something like having NPCs for hire that would help you out, or basically just stand in for a real person. Would be a good way to assist those people who need it, but leave the door open for people to enjoy the difficulty.

Their goal was to group us up, if we're not grouping for whatever reasons, give people an option to group with an NPC.

Or anything like that which serves the purpose of a difficulty slider, without all the segregation that comes along with one.

you would think it wouldnt, but its known that with this server tech that there are 'channels' thet players are sorted to. These channels can be difficulty sorted instead of conjestion sorted.