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Tell ZOS you want a phase toggle for vet difficulty!
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Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »So much for your humble apology. You are already back to labeling people as "easy mode crowd that refuses to adapt". ESO VR content is MUCH more unforgiving than any other premier MMO was at launch before their so called easy mode nerfs. Even after a mild nerf, ESO VR content will probably STILL be more unforgiving than any other premier MMO was at launch. You guys need to relax and wait for the changes. Then judge. I've been browsing game forums for 20 years and I've never seen such an overreaction. Ever.
You are just being overly sensitive and (intentionally?) misinterpreting what I said. I said the GAME was being rebalanced into easy (1-50 scale) mode. I said nothing about anyone being stupid or refusing to adapt or whatever else you want to put in my mouth.AlienDiplomat wrote: »Because three months of "bragging rights" playing a brilliantly designed game that makes you think and rewards skill is hardly enough to offset being forced to endure probably the best thing to happen to the MMO industry being reduced to yet another easy mode coaster for the remainder of it's life.
YES, I am a little disconcerted that a company would make a decision 3-months in to take away a brilliant game design and completely redesign their core philosophy. It is like giving someone a gift then taking it back. It makes me feel like the company is getting desperate and making knee-jerk reactions and that is NOT a good thing for consumer confidence.
Is it really so hard for you to accept that some people LIKE the game the way it is?
Having an the ability to play either normal-veteran phase (balanced from 1-50) or veteran-veteran phase (balanced to how it is now) is the best way to give both sides what they want. You can switch back and forth, have a better chance at gear drops in veteran mode, it is just an all around win-win option.
You are right, we don't know yet how bad it will be. But they DID say they were balancing it to be like 1-50 and 1-50 WAS incredibly easy.
I never had to bother blocking or moving out of red zones and there was never any real sense that my character was any jeopardy.
That to ME is not really a very fun way to spend the upper 2/3 of the game.Edited by Phinix1 on July 7, 2014 3:40AM2 -
Akhratos✭✭✭✭Blackwidow wrote: »Blackwidow wrote: »
Buy all the spray cans you can afford and start emptying them in the street.
Tell all your friends to do the same.
Wait for a few hundred/thousand years maybe?
That game sounds boring.
Well, we are working in a proper high end where you will be able to spray new cans everyday.
In the meantime, we appreciate your patience.0 -
Arora✭✭✭I do not agree, it would still have the same problem of people leveling to max level to fast, then more people complaining they are bored
Arora Moon - EB- Nightblade
Arora Moonlight- EB- Sorcerer
- GM Souless-
Hail Sithis - Glory to the Night Mother0 -
The_Sadist✭✭✭✭✭I personally want to see more content, lore development and skill lines (World, new Classes, Guild etc etc) over having developers waste months in order to create two difficulty settings because a handful of people feel the need to rant about how easy / hard content is / will be.
It's a relatively amusing concept. This is an MMO, I can understand something like this working in instanced events like dungeons and whatnot, but in an open world environment? Wait until new content with harder mechanics is released and complain about it later.Edited by The_Sadist on July 7, 2014 4:00AM"Each event is preceded by Prophecy. But without the hero, there is no Event." ― Zurin Arctus, the Underking.Tragrim - How do I work this thing?
Casually stalking the forums0 -
Akhratos✭✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »MasterSpatula wrote: »Some people have been able to solo content that was always intended as group content but never labeled that way. I don't get why the bragging rights from months of being able to solo group content isn't enough for you guys. Why do you insist those who don't want to do that should be miserable?
Short answer? Because three months ....
Errr.... Have you ever played this game at release? It seems not.
VR content was buffed postCraglorn. PreCraglorn it was, not only much easier than it will be after this new tweak (they said the nerf would be halfway), but even more with the great addition of:
- Dungeon boss mindless farm for stacks and stacks of free gems, blues, gold, xp.. 1 kill per 20secs apr by pressing a buttom, make your calcs about the outrageous ammount of gems you could farm per hour.
- Fungal/Spindle 1st boss farm. Yes, there was a time doing dungeons was worth it...
- Typical mob camp farming. Faster than questing.
Of course, that was before they first made dungeons xp crap (go once, never go back), nerfed every loot chance in the game, added loot/xp cd for the same boss to avoid farming, made the xp from mobs negligible to avoid people leveling up without questing, and finally buffed the content.
Your game was not brillabtly designed if you think a 20% nerf over an already 100% postcraglorn buffed content will tear it apart.
Redesign? LMFAO you have no clue about how this game was designed dude, just stop embarrasing yourself talking about what a company should do and using aggresive language to communicate with other players.
You clearly have not played from release nor in the PTS during the beta times. Dont feel so absolutely right about your thoughts when they are based in a false statement.Edited by Akhratos on July 7, 2014 4:12AM4 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It just seems to that it would be a nightmare from a programming perspective. Not to mention the load that twice as many phases would put on the server.
Plus it is already borderline impossible to find groups in the upper VR zones for objectives. Now imagine an already dead zone population being further segregated to different phases for dolmen and zone bosses.
I agree that there is clearly a crowd of elite players that enjoy unforgiving solo content. I also agree that it would be wise to provide such content. But I think additional phases to a game with a low population in certain areas is a bad idea.Edited by Alphashado on July 7, 2014 4:23AM0 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Redesign? LMFAO you have no clue about how this game was designed dude, just stop embarrasing yourself...
Really? I'm using aggressive language? Really? Show me in this thread one thing I said about anyone that was either aggressive or offensive. It sounds like you just don't like other people having opinions.
They reversed the buff to veteran zones that they did after Craglorn in a subsequent patch. It was actually MUCH harder at one point, which most people considered to be a mistake.
They stated in their dev corner post they originally intended veteran content to encourage grouping while being solo'able if you were willing to adapt. They then went on to say they are completely redesigning this to be more like 1-50 solo content.
That spells out "complete redesign" quite literally. No interpretation required.
Honestly I don't know why people feel the need to treat me like I just drop-kicked their puppy for trying to suggest an option that gives everyone the CHOICE to play how they like.Alphashado wrote: »It just seems to that it would be a nightmare from a programming perspective. Not to mention the load that twice as many phases would put on the server.
Plus it is already borderline impossible to find groups in the upper VR zones for objectives. Now imagine an already dead zone population being further segregated to different phases for dolmen and zone bosses.
I agree that there is clearly a crowd of elite players that enjoy unforgiving solo content. I also agree that it would be wise to provide such content. But I think additional phases to a game with a low population in certain areas is a bad idea.
I appreciate your insights. I understand it may seem like a difficult task but really it is pretty simple. They already have the current balance tables, they already have the balance tables for monday's release. It would literally be a matter of copy-pasting these database tables into each appropriate phase, and coding in the toggle. A couple days work, if that.
The issue with empty zones will resolve in time as more people level up regardless which way they go. But most of the people will probably choose to do group content in the 1-50 balanced veteran phase, and most people that have been asking for the change will be there, so in theory, the veteran zone phase balanced to 1-50 should be much more populated.
The harder veteran content phase, being designed for people that enjoy the current challenge, will probably continue to see about the same population, with more as more people get used to the game and hit v12, and go seeking new challenges (and better loot) with guild mates or friends.
As it is now I never have trouble getting a group for things after asking for a minute or two. This will only become easier over time.
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pinstripesc✭✭✭I really don't feel MMOs are the place for difficulty sliders. Personally I like the difficulty as-is, but if they feel the need to tone it down across the board, then fine, I'll live with it. Again, we have to keep in mind we don't even know the extent of the changes yet...
But we're starting to talk about playing separate games. I can see "hard modes" being activatable in dungeons, maybe, for better loot, but not the entire world. And that would be a requirement - there's no way people playing "ez mode" or whatever you want to call it should be getting the same rewards as people playing "hard mode". There is always a level of competitiveness in MMOs, that's just their nature.
I won't comment on the technicalities behind the concept of having seperate phases, as I don't know enough about what it would take to implement, but the comment that it would further fragment our population is very true. I already feel like I'm playing a co-op game with just my wife a lot of the time up in Vet++.Edited by pinstripesc on July 7, 2014 4:32AM2 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's not a complete redesign.
If you think that leveraging the "phasing technology" is easy, you have NO professional development experience. You'd effectively double the amount of development effort needed to plan, execute, and test those aspects of the game. What you think is "simple" or "easy" is a short-sighted, and naive, viewpoint on what this kind of change fully entails. Further, please explain how you know anything about ESO internals because you made a script for some game one time.
Because I have worked on game engine cores and database tables in the past. I know that the parts they plan to change, mob health and damage, are COMPLETELY SEPARATE from the parts of the database and core that handle everything else.
90% of the code and database is identical between the phases. The only difference is the tiny table that is unique to each one that handles damage and health.
No need to resort to name calling BTW.1 -
ShiftControl✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »so that people who LOVE the unique, challenging, and rewarding veteran zones ZOS created
I wanna know what was rewarding in the Vet zones bc I couldn't find any of those rewards finishing Cadvel's Almanac and got a lvl 50 blue neck pc of crap @ Vr10 u r kidding me.
Rewarding: I had to clear the other factions houses? help them save the king and crap common now.
The main problem is: there is no reward in the game period.
Actually I have one reward: if my game does not crash in every 30 min, only once an hr, thats the biggest reward right now and 18fps in Cyr is a reward when folks have 0 fps.
There is no incentives in the game as of now my guild started 370 strong, more then half online all times lately no more then 10 ppl online can you explain why? Bc there is nothing in the game to work for, and what ever left is broken or bugged.
Also rewarding NB running around with rest/destro
An other reward is if your quest boss is not bugged.
The incredible amount of low lvl green recipes from looting chests and drawers is also a nice reward.
There is not 1 armor set which would worth the while for grind for it right now.
Oh yeh the Undisclosed and Undiscovered armor pieces are the rewards right?
who the hell came up with that idea sry to say but that person is an i t.
There is no VR12 PvP gear @ list I could not find one only that crap green Pact armor, its supposed to be PvP armor anyway?
(lemme re frase that Vr1-12)
That purple armor the vendors selling is a joke if asking me, like all other, and if something actually worked they nerf the crap out of it, without saying a word.
also a big reward if the Sorcs in Cyr not using talons and banners (DK abilities) and bolt escape, can someone explain it to me?
Also a NB outruns the fastest horse at any given time if you catch him there is a reward you caught the fastest NB in the game 50 Achievement points gained.
by the way all these folks are yellow rumor is going on in Cyr the Hackers lol.
(solution: Reapers mark,Flying blade Soul Assault then play shovel)
These guys have rewards because they getting away with it.They have been reported numerous times they still ganking ppl all over.
(ok if I wasn't clear enough there is a sorc in Cyr he uses sorc abilities and dk abilities as well like he has 2 class in one and about 10 skill bars, the Death recap clearly states all dmg you getting from 2 classes and visuals as well and only 1 person is around but I think this does not belong to this thread.)
So please gave me a reward. Screw that gold its not even scaled to your dids.
I want a reward or incentive to play for.
My current incentives is screw with those hackers but its getting boring and they just rez and keep coming back to do the same things over and over.2 -
ShiftControl✭✭
Since when it become a problem if someone lvld fast? You just jealous.I do not agree, it would still have the same problem of people leveling to max level to fast, then more people complaining they are bored
We are racing to the top lvls because we know how to play. all others are left behind and we PvP or rub d k, or what not, or lvl new weapon abilities or what ever, gathering herbs, ore and crap and selling it to slow folks. I'm not saying there is nuttin to do and its should not be your concern or any1 else's how fast some individuals lvl to top lvls. We choose to do so bc we don't like to dck around with enemy lore but unfortunately we had to. Some likes it slow some like it fast all MMOs are like that period, go try an other you will see.
Personally I care less what the heck they are going to do with VR zones I'm done with it, in fact I was Vr6 when I got done Vr10 zone Cadvels Almanac bc it was so easy. Screw the side quest do only the main ones.
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Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ShiftControl wrote: »I wanna know what was rewarding in the Vet zones...
The unique, challenging and engaging playstyle that encouraged you to think and adapt. That my friend, in an industry plagued by the perpetual over-nerfing of everything, was a reward in and of itself.
I do agree they need to add more unique stuff, and they have stated that they are. Still, that is no reason to nerf all veteran content down to 1-50 levels, which is a whole other story.
Edited by Phinix1 on July 7, 2014 5:05AM4 -
ShiftControl✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »ShiftControl wrote: »I wanna know what was rewarding in the Vet zones...
The unique, challenging and engaging playstyle that encouraged you to think and adapt. That my friend, in an industry plagued by the perpetual over-nerfing of everything, was a reward in and of itself.
Its a joke right?
So I should consider myself as rewarded?
If it would be no pvp in the game (which broken as we know) none of use would play it by now. (talking about my gang) Even though is broken there is still fun in there it could be more if things would work as they supposed to.4 -
forthewinn2✭✭✭A difficulty toggle sounds like a good idea but personally I think hire-able mercenaries would be way cooler.
Think about it you hire an npc to follow you around and help with any really hard quests(for a small upfront fee ie a 400g toggle) and while the mercenary is active you dont have to pay him based on how long he helps you, you merely earn 50% less loot (mercenaries are completely untrustworthy and always steal all of the cool stuff) .
Any thoughts?3 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭forthewinn2 wrote: »A difficulty toggle sounds like a good idea but personally I think hire-able mercenaries would be way cooler.
Think about it you hire an npc to follow you around and help with any really hard quests(for a small upfront fee ie a 400g toggle) and while the mercenary is active you dont have to pay him based on how long he helps you, you merely earn 50% less loot (mercenaries are completely untrustworthy and always steal all of the cool stuff) .
Any thoughts?
I like it, though I think it would take a lot more time to develop, which takes away from doing other new cool stuff. Still, well worth considering.
Simply doing a toggle would take less than a week to code. If anyone at ZOS wants to claim otherwise, they can hire me on commission to do it. If it isn't done in 1 week, don't pay me!2 -
circilion✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »I still think the best thing they could do, and I encourage more people on these forums to go to Support and Email and put in a ticket requesting it, is to allow the community a TOGGLE that lets you keep vet content as it is if you want, or play in a separate phase with all the people who want it easy.
That way everybody wins, and you don't lose subs by alienating one half of the community or the o(Snip- But please read original OP post-).
Well said! Happen to be on the fence leaning heavily to the easy mode camp. But if there was a toggle for the original vet difficulty, with increased rewards that would be the perfect solution.
That being said, it sounds like something easy to say and insanely hard to implement. But on paper this is awesome.
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Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RedMiniStapler wrote: »Or... You could just simply volunteer to do it for free.
Sure, just cover room and board and a plane ticket.
OK, I'll meet you half way on the plane ticket!
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RedMiniStapler✭✭✭So, a cardboard box as housing and a bicycle as transportation. Sounds like good deal for zenimax.0 -
ShiftControl✭✭many of us are off content here but when I read xp farming, boss farming, why does it concerns everyone or anyone?
Bot farming yes sure,
but If I wanna kill a boss over and over spend 3-4 hrs sitting on it, why does it bother others?
By the way I don't do that, and I don't care if someone kills his play time doing so, but this is a free world they pay for the game time like you do they don't tell you what to do or what not to do, so let them do what ever they wanna do they paid for it.
Its not your business how others spending his/her virtual life anyway.
You can buy filled soul gems because of those guys half price then the vendor and its FILLED what is your problem think about it.
You think the boss will run out of loot no it won't
As I said I care less what they do nerf the hell out of it or not I'm done lvling for a while. (I hope so)2 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I am not opposed to the merc companion idea. It would be fun and one of the few things I liked about swtor. However I don't believe for one second that "elite" players would not use them as well.0 -
ShiftControl✭✭Mercs like in Skyrim maybe the best idea so far they should be able to carry loot for you just like in Skyrim, you should be able to gear them up, and they should be able to follow you in Cyr as well (maybe) if they die you have to rez them or loose them no more then 1 at the time and they should scale to you, and lvl with you.
Don't know how hard it would be I'm not a programmer but I think the folks sitting in Zeni on the same lvl as I'm in programming, ok some of them knows a little more then I because I don't even know how to create bugs in the game.1 -
ShiftControl✭✭
No I dont n I won't tell themAlienDiplomat wrote: »TELL ZOS YOU WANT A PHASE TOGGLE FOR VET DIFFICULTY!
They have to get rid of the phasing that made 10s of thousands of players leave the game because they could not play with friends. Why do we play MMO because we wanna play with friends but we are on a different schedule so we got phased out in ESO and got forced to play with strangers or alone.
Also if they do that they will split the remaining players within 2 phases, as of now it feels empty if they doit it will be a deadzone. make that 12 deadzones.
Awesome Idea bro
-You gained 50 Achievement points-
"You should not except cookies from strangers you know!!"Edited by ShiftControl on July 7, 2014 6:38AM1 -
Loco_Mofo✭✭✭✭✭Why would anyone need to group up for vet after Mondays changes? They're making the zones even easier to solo, grouping up is going to be overkill...1
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ShiftControl✭✭Why would anyone need to group up for vet after Mondays changes? They're making the zones even easier to solo, grouping up is going to be overkill...
I done it alone with a broken class NB, but you have no idea how many ppl crying for help to kill 3 mobs and same ppl complaining about us getting to Vr12 so quick. Today I was lvling up new skills in Coldharbor and I been asked how to kill Molag Bal not kidding ya. You know why because ZOS said you can play anyway you want but is very far from the reality. I saw sorcs there dual wielding1 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Well, apart from those that are intent on telling others how to play .. and there are a large number of those round here .. the real problem here is that a 'legit' player chain-killing a boss is indistinguishable from a bot most of the time as far as the game's concerned.ShiftControl wrote: »many of us are off content here but when I read xp farming, boss farming, why does it concerns everyone or anyone?
Bot farming yes sure,
but If I wanna kill a boss over and over spend 3-4 hrs sitting on it, why does it bother others?
This is why ZOS nerfed this way of playing to Oblivion, they couldn't figure a way to spot the bots so they simply made the playstyle unviable.
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Synfaer✭✭✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »I still think the best thing they could do, and I encourage more people on these forums to go to Support and Email and put in a ticket requesting it, is to allow the community a TOGGLE that lets you keep vet content as it is if you want, or play in a separate phase with all the people who want it easy.
That way everybody wins, and you don't lose subs by alienating one half of the community or the other. It would be very simple to implement as well, since all the work is basically done already with the existing megaserver phasing technology.
I really do agree, the challenge isn't that big a deal. But there is a huge group of people that want things to always be easy for them without having to adapt at all, and ZOS is a business first and foremost. For this first year at least it seems that they are more interested in satisfying their investors than remaining true even to their own design model. It is sad, because they really had something unique and interesting here.
This is a rather unprecedented total restructure of the core game dynamic months into launch to satisfy the easy mode crowd. It feels a little unnerving, like the company is going into desperation panic mode, but clearly that is what they think it will take to keep enough of the easy mode subscribers to afford to continue to improve the game, which EVERYBODY wants.
Sometimes, you have to make sacrifices. Of course sacrificing the engine so you can afford razor fins to make your car go faster is sort of dumb but we'll see...
Regardless, rather than polarizing an already tenuous community morale, setting one side against the other where one camp inevitably loses the ability to play how they want, I suggest we beseech ZOS to use the existing phasing system to create a standard and veteran phase for veteran zones, just like you can toggle normal or veteran mode for dungeons, so that people who LOVE the unique, challenging, and rewarding veteran zones ZOS created don't end up feeling this is just another game to cave to the WoW crowd and move on.
Personally, I don't want to lose EITHER camp, and this SIMPLE fix would allow BOTH to play how they want.
No.1
