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Would you support a difficulty slider?
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Lodestar✭✭✭✭Yesnerevarine1138 wrote: »
Or the alternative could always be that ZO stands their ground and says, "This is the game we wanted to make. If you want something easier, Hello Kitty: Island Adventure is still available."
From another thread.
quote="nerevarine1138;1056889"]nerevarine1138 wrote: »It's really impossible for you to just post a simple question without making it a not-so-veiled-and-ridiculous attack, isn't it?
If you're referring to me? GET A LIFE, or better yet a sense of humour, I was having a little fun with them. Geez... get over yourself ! ! !
It was a bit hypocritical too. Come on @Nerevarine1138 you posted way worse than this yourself more than once and got away with it.
Besides, it was more comical jousting than anything. Like sports fans of opposing sides ragging each in friendly rivalry.
Feel free to point out where, and last I checked, "When are you posting another update? Because you never actually update things you say you're going to, and I wanted to laugh at how stupid you are," isn't comical or jousting. It's just mean-spirited and flat-out wrong, for that matter.[/quote]
Need I say more? You can not help the passive aggressive snide remarks. Likely you think because your opinions is fact, you figure it is righteous and therefore not out of order.3 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yesnerevarine1138 wrote: »Since it's not remotely feasible in an MMO, I'm opposed to the idea even being floated. It's not about being against player choice; it's about being against ridiculously impractical ideas.
Except it's been done for YEARS in most MMO's with instanced content. It's also been done for YEARS in most MMO's 'on the fly' when in open world, like Rift's Rifts and ESO's Dolmens that scale based on the number of players present. The only hurdle I can see for a physical toggle (for lack of better term) is when Player A is on hard mode, and Player B comes to join the encounter, the system would probably have to make an 'on the fly' decision to reduce Player A's difficulty to that of Player B's until the encounter is concluded.
Reducing the player who chose a more difficult option is the correct system response imo for open world as it doesn't force people who want the normal mode to all the sudden do hard mode. For all instanced content it would be the choice of a physical toggle that the group leader changed difficulty level. The technology already exists (at least in part) to do this, and for those that are against it, I've seen no response whatsoever that's valid, they're all basically this:
"NO, because this is an MMO"
"It's not possible because this is an MMO"
"NO, I don't want players to have an easy mode"
"NO, that means an unfair advantage"
Not one of those comments have been backed up with solid evidence as to why it would harm the game and the experience of players who choose NOT to use a toggled hard mode. Simply put, people are just saying no because they want to force other players to play just like they do instead of having a harder option.Edited by DeLindsay on July 4, 2014 6:19PM4 -
Junkogen✭✭✭✭✭NoThis would just be a nightmare to manage to try and figure out the right balance between difficulty and experience and leveling to be able to progress through areas.
This is an unnecessary feature. If they do it, they should have it for pocket areas only that are removed from the main game content.1 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭YesThis would just be a nightmare to manage to try and figure out the right balance between difficulty and experience and leveling to be able to progress through areas.
This is an unnecessary feature. If they do it, they should have it for pocket areas only that are removed from the main game content.
Nah it's really easy actually. Patch 1.2 made ALL Veteran Zones nearly impossible for a few days and that was just simple coding error that they fixed. So that could be the "hard mode" while the game as it will be after VR are nerfed next week is the "normal mode".2 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoThis would just be a nightmare to manage to try and figure out the right balance between difficulty and experience and leveling to be able to progress through areas.
This is an unnecessary feature. If they do it, they should have it for pocket areas only that are removed from the main game content.
Nah it's really easy actually. Patch 1.2 made ALL Veteran Zones nearly impossible for a few days and that was just simple coding error that they fixed. So that could be the "hard mode" while the game as it will be after VR are nerfed next week is the "normal mode".
It's the phasing that would be a technological nightmare. Attempting to add that many additional phases to the existing game would take years to do.
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Darkstorn42✭✭✭NoIts an MMO, it doesn't work like a single player game. Having your level or trophies is a sign that says "I got through the hard ***". Being able to slide from face roll to face stomped would not help the community aspect of an MMO, and would hurt it.3 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭Yesjamie.goddenrwb17_ESO wrote: »I have no idea how you would make that work in an mmo without affecting everyone around you... If someone could come up with a way I suppose I...would?
er.... a minimum of three phases per map, Easy, medium and hard. Group players would be phased at the group leaders selection. Group dungeons could remain how they are.
Easy really.3 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭YesAlphashado wrote: »This would just be a nightmare to manage to try and figure out the right balance between difficulty and experience and leveling to be able to progress through areas.
This is an unnecessary feature. If they do it, they should have it for pocket areas only that are removed from the main game content.
Nah it's really easy actually. Patch 1.2 made ALL Veteran Zones nearly impossible for a few days and that was just simple coding error that they fixed. So that could be the "hard mode" while the game as it will be after VR are nerfed next week is the "normal mode".
It's the phasing that would be a technological nightmare. Attempting to add that many additional phases to the existing game would take years to do.
Well since you're obviously a computer programmer that knows exactly how to code for MMO's I guess there's no point in trying to get mine, and all of the other's points across. Since the game already has some level of changing difficulty I'll just sit back and wait until ZoS adds more to the dismay of all the naysayers, good day.2 -
nudel✭✭✭✭✭Yes
Incorrect. The developers would need, at most, three separate instances for three separate difficulty settings. It would be a relatively simple algorithm.
No its not. Every single player who had the bar incremental different from any other player would need to be in their own instance.
This is pretty much my thinking as well. I don't get why people think this would be dynamic difficulty instancing to every single player. The world would still be leveled. You'd just have a choice between at most 3 settings. When you outleveled content, it would still be easy regardless of your difficulty setting.2 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭NoThe fact that people have voted yes is unbelievable . I simply am completely freaked out that people can think this...
It's an MMO
A competitive environment to achieve reward to be a better player to smash your competitors be it trials or PvP
It's like a footy game where the difficulty slider is on for some players to help,them play better
Get real kiddies4 -
nudel✭✭✭✭✭YesNO, it would simply give an unfair advantage to some players (or just lazy players). Zenimax should just get the game balanced properly. Yes that will take time and they will get things wrong, but one overall fair/balanced system is better !
This I really don't get. An unfair advantage? Really. This isn't something that would carry into Cyrodiil. I don't really see how you can argue an unfair advantage in PVE when so many already grind through Craglorn or VR dungeons to level. Personally, I don't give a crap how someone levels as long as I can continue to level the way I like.
There are addons that show you the exact location of skyshards and lorebooks. I don't use these. Lots of players do. They will get all the skyshards and lorebooks in a fraction of the time it takes me to do so. Do I care? No. I'm not looking for the skyshards and lorebooks the hard way in order to brag about it. I'm looking for them that way because I genuinely enjoy doing it. Whether they use the addon or I find them without it, the end result is the same.
The scaling would be the same. We all get the same quest rewards. So what if they level and get them faster. If you really care about that then switch to their difficulty level. The people who genuinely want a hard fight for their own enjoyment will have a mode in which to do so.1 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭YesThe fact that people have voted yes is unbelievable . I simply am completely freaked out that people can think this...
It's an MMO
A competitive environment to achieve reward to be a better player to smash your competitors be it trials or PvP
It's like a footy game where the difficulty slider is on for some players to help,them play better
Get real kiddies
Try and actually READ the comments for it instead of making false blanket statements against them. NOBODY is asking for an "easy button", EVERYONE for it is asking for a "HARD button" in lieu of Mondays incoming VR reduction in difficulty due to overwhelming crying on the forums that it is too hard. So it was in fact the very same people you are referring to that caused the game to get easier, now those of us here are asking for a way to allow us the option to set it back to a harder mode.
It amazes me that people probably only read the heading of a thread, none of the responses, then make up false accusations against anyone who sides with whichever opinion that poster is against.3 -
fosley_ESO✭✭YesTo the "unfair advantage" argument: presumably, people on easy mode would be getting less experience and so forth, so it would take roughly as much effort to hit VR12, it would just be on a longer, easier ramp.
To this mentality:
There's nothing wrong with pvp or competition in an MMO, but it's most certainly not what the entire game is about. The vast majority of MMO players will never, ever have the skill or time to come remotely close to top of leaderboards, and I would surmise that the vast majority don't care. I certainly don't.It's an MMO. A competitive environment to achieve reward to be a better player to smash your competitors be it trials or PvP.
If literally every other player clicked an "I win" button that gave them VR12, the best equipment in the game, all skill points, and all achievements, it wouldn't affect my ability to play through the soloable game at my own pace and have fun doing so. And it wouldn't affect groups playing through group content in their own way.
Furthermore, nothing about a difficulty slider would in any way take your ability to be competitive out. Nobody would be allowed to play an instance on easy mode then have the top time for the hard mode leaderboards. There probably wouldn't even be easy mode leaderboards.
To the "beat it on easy mode to get hard mode rewards" argument: in most games, if you set it to easy mode at any point during the mission, you get disqualified for any hard mode mission rewards you haven't already unlocked. So if I beat boss 1 on hard, I get hard-mode loot/xp from him. Then I beat boss 2 on easy, and get easy-mode rewards from him. Then I beat bosses 3, 4, and 5 on hard mode, and get hard-mode rewards from them. Then I turn in the quest and get an achievement for beating easy-mode, and (if there's a difference) loot/xp for the easy-mode completion. I have to go back and beat (depending on the game) either just the one boss I skipped, or the entire instance in one go, on hard-mode, to get the hard-mode mission rewards.
Is it remotely possible someone figures out some way to cheese the system to get an unfair advantage over legitimate hard-mode players via easy-mode? Sure. And it will be discovered and patched in a heart-beat, the exploiters will be taken off the leaderboards, and life will go back to normal.2 -
Tannakaobi✭✭✭✭✭YesIt's like a footy game where the difficulty slider is on for some players to help,them play better
Er... I hate to be the one to tell you this but footy games do exactly this. Take Fifa for example, they have a difficulty slider and they have an option to turn the control for each skill to manual - Hard, Semi auto - Medium and Auto - Easy. You can even use this in PVP games online.
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Riptide✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoSo much back and forth.
Here is the trick - when they implement the changes they are looking at which makes soloing easier in VR content, there needs to be challenging content put in at the same time.
Otherwise you will get just as much noise (often from the exact same people) as the stuff about VR content being to difficult, only this time the rant will be that there is nothing to do.
It is true, there is a camp of folks that like a very difficult game. I'm one of them. But I don't have any hangup on it having to be hard for everyone, in point of act in most games you want to be able to have some kind of visual recognition that you did things the hard way. That is the little reward, outside of personal satisfaction.
A difficulty slider, in my opinion, is not the mechanic to do that. Rather content which cannot be approached without optimizing your character, and yes, bringing friends who have done the same and communicate. Thats the way to get it done.
And really the VR system is that. What put the whole thing on its back foot was the VR "levels". That made a whole bunch of folks feel like their trip through the system was incomplete unless they hit VR12. If you put levels to it, thats how it will wind up.
Have to take levels out of the equation for endgame, the rewards have to be small but visually noticable, the challenge has to be serious, and the scenery has to be varied. Thats an endgame equation that works and will work.Esse quam videri.2 -
Akhratos✭✭✭✭Nonerevarine1138 wrote: »Is anyone actually going to explain how this would work in an MMO?
You can't scale difficulty without making [x] instances (where [x] is the number of difficulty options) of the world. Which is absolutely idiotic.
Oh thanks Stendarr!
It seems some people use their minds before asking for impossibles in an online game.
Make three difficulty options and multiply server world phases to thrice the actual number. Great idea to screw the last bit of server performance there is.1 -
fosley_ESO✭✭YesYou don't necessarily need three options. You could have two. Either way, it wouldn't double/triple the resources needed, since some zones already have multiple phases, and the players in the new phases are no longer in the old phases, so all you're really doing is tracking a few more npcs and containers. The amount of memory needed for inventory, quest tracking, etc., or the amount of bandwidth needed for positional data doesn't increase at all (in fact, fewer other players around you would decrease bandwidth slightly). There would be *some* hit, but it's not going to be extreme, and you're not going to see it at the client end, because they would just add extra hardware to support it if needed.2
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Tabbycat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭YesGW1 had a hard mode which was toggle-able after completing the main story of a particular zone (Prophecies, Factions, Nightfall and EotN respectively). I think it would be a great idea for those who'd like an alternative to leveling by questing. They could click hard mode and go fight mobs in their home faction that are up-scaled to Veteran level difficulty. I don't think that this would be too hard to implement either. The only change would be that ZOS would need to increase the XP gains from killing monsters in the open.
Open world dungeons could also be scaled in difficulty. Toggling hard mode would automatically put you in a different Hard Mode phase so that you wouldn't be interacting with anyone who is doing normal leveling. You could toggle off Hard Mode and use a Wayshrine to return to normal difficulty mobs if you needed to go help out a friend.
There could also be unique achievements for killing monsters in Hard Mode.
summary: Implement Hard Mode for your home faction zone that you could toggle on once you reach level 50. You could then grind veteran level monsters in your home faction for XP instead of questing in the other faction zones.Edited by Tabbycat on July 5, 2014 1:43PMFounder and Co-GM of The Psijic Order Guild (NA)
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Hoamaii✭✭✭YesInteresting poll. I guess most polls show there are clearly 2 types of gamers here, the ones that are here for the competition and the ones that are here for the collaboration. Not judging, just 2 different ways to have fun I think.
Personally, I'd be more the collaboration type, crafting for free or sharing my stuff and helping other players - and probably expecting the same in return.
So if some want a difficulty slider, why not? I'm not saying it would be a piece of cake to implement that in this game, I'm just saying I don't mind a slider, if I wanna play "hard" I can leave it at that - and if some others want a casual easy stroll, let them have it, it's all about having fun, right?"You can learn more about someone in an hour of gaming than in a whole year of conversation" - Plato1 -
cracker81✭✭✭NoWhy? Hmm. Let say I suck at pve can't do some stuff what others can do but get the same gear..is that fair? Do you want me to give u free gold too? .hey eso are going to start a tax of gear or items to hand to other players?. I would try to get better... Same pvp quit asking for a Nerf, if someone is better than you are at it don't ask for a Nerf. You can't win them all. Next time when I am doing mma I will ask the guy that can beat me to be Nerfed. Lol. Like put one arm behind his back. I have played many mmo's and killed many classes even when ppl said class was broken,still got duelist and had bounties on my head in pvp server. Push yourself to get better, I hate bums or ppl that think they should have what others earned. I take this as a slap in the face. Look at wow and go there u can have raid finder. If the dev decide to Nerf stuff from qq then this game is not for me. I don't like to quit, some fights you can't win, meaning it is their game I am but a guest.Edited by cracker81 on July 5, 2014 2:21PM3 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭YesWhy? Hmm. Let say I suck at pve can't do some stuff what others can do but get the same gear..is that fair? Do you want me to give u free gold too? .hey eso are going to start a tax of gear or items to hand to other players?. I would try to get better... Same pvp quit asking for a Nerf, if someone is better than you are at it don't ask for a Nerf. You can't win them all. Next time when I am doing mma I will ask the guy that can beat me to be Nerfed. Lol. Like put one arm behind his back. I have played many mmo's and killed many classes even when ppl said class was broken,still got duelist and had bounties on my head in pvp server. Push yourself to get better, I hate bums or ppl that think they should have what others earned. I take this as a slap in the face. Look at wow and go there u can have raid finder. If the dev decide to Nerf stuff from qq then this game is not for me. I don't like to quit, some fights you can't win, meaning it is their game I am but a guest.
And another person who didn't even READ the comments for it. NOBODY is asking for an easier option, EVERYBODY is asking for a harder option with the upcoming reduction in difficulty to VR on Monday. NOBODY is asking for any change whatsoever in PvP, this is strictly a PvE enabled option, if ZoS were to put one in.
The technology already exists, at least in part. It's even being used right now in ESO at Dolmens, and for Expert/Normal Dungeons.2 -
AngryWolf✭✭✭Yes...I would love a difficulty slider for my life. There are times when being able to ramp down the difficulty would REALLY help!0 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭YesYes...I would love a difficulty slider for my life. There are times when being able to ramp down the difficulty would REALLY help!
Except as another who didn't read the responses you wouldn't get an "easy button" only a harder option. The difficulty of the game as it is (or will be post Monday's VR change) would be the lowest and default setting that nobody could make any easier. There would then be an option for a player who wants more challenge to choose to make the game harder.2 -
BBSooner✭✭✭✭✭
✭YesAbsolutely, less of a slider though and more just repeatable quests from the fighters and mages guilds (for solo and for group) that allow different difficulties. I for one enjoyed the difficulty the current VR was giving, and though I'm glad it took this long the eventual fall in to ' hand holding ' for those who couldn't handle it is just a reminder that people don't have to get better - they just have to cry louder.0 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭No* Why is Zenimax lowering the difficulty/Gain in exp between Lvl 50 and vet1?
The reason for the change from Zenimax:
By feedback from players who feels the difference from level 50 to vet 1 was to big, and difficult to accept.
Speculating Zenimax statement:
The "solo player" group, which Zenimax estimate, is the bigger targeted group, who chooses to solo even with game mechanics and methods to create interaction and groups for gameplay and added subscriptions.
* Possible lost of subscriptions due to this change is is acceptable.
Speculating added factors:
* Current player base is not big enough to reaching their budget.
* Current reputation for ESO is not good enough, and takes time, marketing and player communities to gain.
* Current issues of ESO and loosing time to stabilize the product in time to create a growing player base to reach the budget.
Educated guess:
This is a short term solution, or more areas would be involved.
Lower settings on item value (mobs) is faster and easier, then build and intergrate a new feature. Or start a marketing campaign.
Conclution of Zenimax statement
To grow ESO and have enough subscriptions to follow their long term plan. Which of course are a big interest to ALL ESO players.
Concern for my group of subscriptons - guilds and groups
Unable to speculate further changes, before Zenimax has sufficient data from these changes.
If the changes works, maybe there is no need for futher changes to their ESO long term plan.
This removes my concern.Edited by Cogo on July 5, 2014 4:46PMOghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"1 -
RatsnevE✭✭✭YesI'd love to see something like this--anything like this. I don't think it can happen though in an MMO--only in single-player and solo PvE exclusive stuff. Otherwise how would you be able to group equitably?
There are a lot of clever things to try... You could only allow the slider up through killing Molag Bal which pretty much finishes the main story line. From that point on Veteran reverts to what it is for everyone else in PvE and PvP.0 -
Dekkameron✭✭✭✭✭I want a difficulty slider for PVP, i keep dying all the time!
Nerf everyone but me!Edited by Dekkameron on July 5, 2014 5:14PM- Veteran Combat Librarian -1 -
Rodario✭✭✭✭✭YesI don't think this would work without instancing, so maybe only four steps. 1 being1-50 difficulty, 2 being the middle ground they're gonna set VR areas to soon, 3 being current VR mode and 4 being an actual hard mode.
Rewards (gold, xp, drop chances and quest rewards) would increase with the difficulty.
Maybe this could be intruduced at least for dungeons and delves.Victoria Lux - Templar Tank
{EU/DC}0
