Thank you ZOS and Staff

KariTR · July 2014

Nope Alien, I don't see the irony at all. Do you participate in polls by any chance? One of the reasons I do is because they mean I don't have to repeat myself in every thread.

We play the game, not the forum.

Phinix1 · July 2014

Maximis_ESO wrote: »

Yeah it would make sense, a 2 hand medium armor warrior doesn't stand much of a chance against 3 VR mobs...

Really?

Drop Volcanic Rune between you and the mobs. Buff yourself. Critical Charge at the caster/archer. Roll dodge back to kite melee into Volcanic Rune. Decimate the caster/archer and lay into the next with Critical Charge after dropping a new rune. Repeat. Profit.

emeraldbay · July 2014

brandon wrote: »

No that's not what I'm saying. I mentioned in my post that if ZOS added a difficulty slider to the game I would be fine with that. How is that in any way saying I want you to adapt to my lvl?
@emeraldbay

You said earlier that it was unfair for Zenimax to make the content less difficult, because you and many others had been working so hard to get there [1]. You also made various comments saying that we needed to dodge and block (assuming we didn't already do so, [2]), and that we should learn to practice and adapt [3] [4].

I'm not just arguing points you haven't made.

Edit: My beautiful formatting...

References (in order):

brandon wrote: »

Like I said before why should players who worked just as or harder then you have to weaken themselves for a challenge? That does not sound fair at all and as much as this is thrown around it stops people from playing their way.
@emeraldbay

brandon wrote: »

@emeraldbay
I could say the reverse to you. In fact because your to lazy to learn how to dodge, block and use more then 5 abilities, all of us so called "leet" players need to handicap ourselves to have a challenge. That sounds fair right? I don't think so.

brandon wrote: »

I think you have forgotten what type of game this is. If you haven't noticed it's an mmo, mmo stands for massively multiplayer online meaning sometimes you need to learn to teamup. If you do in fact dodge, block and use more then 5 abilities there is another thing called practice. Learn it.
@emeraldbay

brandon wrote: »

@emeraldbay
The problem is you don't need to do it in "such and such way" to do well. You choose to not learn how to ADAPT keyword here is ADAPT. Again why should players who worked hard suddenly need to handicap themselves so others get their way.

brandon · July 2014

emeraldbay wrote: »

brandon wrote: »

No that's not what I'm saying. I mentioned in my post that if ZOS added a difficulty slider to the game I would be fine with that. How is that in any way saying I want you to adapt to my lvl?
@emeraldbay

You said earlier that it was unfair for Zenimax to make the content less difficult, because you and many others had been working so hard to get there (here). You also made various comments saying that we needed to dodge and block (assuming we didn't already do so, here), and that we should learn to practice and adapt (here and here).

I'm not just arguing points you haven't made.

First of all the links are broken. Second of all yes I said you should practice and try to get better. Third I also said that being that ZOS is already doing this they could have added a difficulty slider, since this is going to screw over everyone who likes a challenge. Apparently you like ignoring what I tell you.

The post where I said "where do I say that" was meant towards my previous post not other ones throughout this thread.

@emeraldbay

Ojustaboo · July 2014

Maximis_ESO wrote: »

I understand that you are both angry, but they have lost so many players.... no matter what they do they will not please everyone. They didn't say anything about nerfing group content, raid content etc. They will still be difficult and challenging. The whole game won't be solo grind, but it should be able to be done with a group or solo

The simple fact is, it's not just the difficulty thats the problem, its the way the whole game has been designed.

The mages and fighters guild quests were the first quests you really had to think, learn to block, learn to dodge, but they nerfed them so you no longer needed to learn.

Now people through no fault of their own are getting through levels 1 to 49 without really having to think about which skills they use or really worrying about blocking or dodging.

I hate people saying others need to learn to play, I hope this doesn't come across as me saying that as its not my intention.

People are reaching vet class and it suddenly becomes important to understand how your skills work, not every skill is viable. You do need to know how to block, you do need to know how to dodge.

Its a bit like levels 1 to 49 being basic arithmatic then the next second we're in vet levels facing advanced equations.

I don't believe Zenimax tweaking the difficulty will get around this problem at all.

When I first got to vet level I hated it. I died time after time with zero progression.
I even used magical anomalies to jump from nearly vet 2 to vet 3 to try and help my survivability but that made no difference at all.

Then I completely respeced, read up on various builds and based my build on one a guildmate found for me on Reddit.

I'm now using skills I would never have dreamed of slotting and while it is 100% true to argue that I am not playing in the way I originally wanted, its also true that I am having great fun with my new spec.

I have been vet 3 for a couple of weeks now, not too far to go to get to vet 4.

Now I can survive, sure I sometimes die but I'm progressing through the content too and I am now really enjoying the vet content.

If anything I feel it was far too easy and quick to reach vet level (explored everywhere, read everything etc on my way) and I have no problem with the slow leveling now I'm having fun.

But Zenimax claiming we can play as we liked isn't true. Otherwise we could randomly slot any 5 skills and be adequately equipped to take on all content and that will never be the case.

I have skills I normally use and I have skills I swap in depending on the situstion.

I honestly don't believe making vet easier will get around this at all.

I do think certain things need balancing better, you should be able to do run of the mill vet content if you want to use a bow or summon pets etc, but I dont believe lowering the overall difficulty will help at all.

As for all content being soloable, that will only work if difficulty scales to solo player or group size, but that would mean no one passing by could join in etc and would be a huge game redesign.

There should be soloable end level content and group end level content, due to what I said in my previous paragraph I don't think one size fits all hence as long as there is content for solo players, I'm happy to have separate content aimed at groups.

Thinking about it, they may be able to design something where we have the same content with an option when you travel there as to whether you want solo or group difficulty (or possibly more options depending on group size)

emeraldbay · July 2014

brandon wrote: »

emeraldbay wrote: »

brandon wrote: »

No that's not what I'm saying. I mentioned in my post that if ZOS added a difficulty slider to the game I would be fine with that. How is that in any way saying I want you to adapt to my lvl?
@emeraldbay

You said earlier that it was unfair for Zenimax to make the content less difficult, because you and many others had been working so hard to get there (here). You also made various comments saying that we needed to dodge and block (assuming we didn't already do so, here), and that we should learn to practice and adapt (here and here).

I'm not just arguing points you haven't made.

First of all the links are broken. Second of all yes I said you should practice and try to get better. Third I also said that being that ZOS is already doing this they could have added a difficulty slider, since this is going to screw over everyone who likes a challenge. Apparently you like ignoring what I tell you.

The post where I said "where do I say that" was meant towards my previous post not other ones throughout this thread.

@emeraldbay

Actually, the links aren't broken- they just aren't pretty. You can still click them without a problem.
I stand corrected. See my edited post for actual working quotes.

Also, you can't just discard other posts you've made because they don't suit the point you're trying to make now. You have to own up to the things you say.

brandon · July 2014

First of all lol on the edit.

Yes we can't discard other posts that's not what I was trying to do. I was trying to make a point with that post and you thought I was taking back my other posts. I'm not doing that. I still say that this shouldn't be happening and that everyone complaining should have just adapted and learned from their failures. However since we both know this is going to happen I said I would be happy if they added a difficulty slider so people who want it easier can make it easier, while people who want challenge could make it harder.
@emeraldbay

Alphashado · July 2014

brandon wrote: »

Maximis_ESO wrote: »

brandon wrote: »

emeraldbay wrote: »

brandon wrote: »

emeraldbay wrote: »

brandon wrote: »

Maximis_ESO wrote: »

brandon wrote: »

emeraldbay wrote: »

Innocente wrote: »

Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?

So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.

Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.

Why should players who may or may not have worked harder then you, suddenly need to limit themselves so "casuals" can have easier content? That seems kinda selfish to me. You can play the way you want while so many others can't play how they want.
@emeraldbay

How is it selfish? It is equally selfish for you to want it "your" way... don't you think? Seems like it is hypocritical if you ask me.....

Look at it this way alright. It can go 2 ways
1 "good players" can weaken themselves so "weaker" players can have fun even though they worked really hard to get what they have.
2 "weaker" players can practice and get better so "good" players can have fun
The way I see it is if the good players weaken themselves they won't ever have any fun. Where if the weak players learn and get better eventually everyone can have fun.
@Maximis_ESO

*snip*
So, are "good" players only able to have fun if they're using their super amazing awesome Legendary armor with all gold enchantments and purple recipes and the best potions ever?

Think of a difficulty setting in a single-player game. What exactly does it do?

While some games will go deeper than others (changing enemy AI, moving enemies to different areas), they will all change two basic things: damage and health.

In hard mode, enemies will do more damage and have more health than in easy mode. This is the most basic incarnation of the "difficulty setting".

Now, we "weaker" players can do nothing to make the enemies deal less damage and have less overall health. We're stuck on hard mode when we want to play on easy.

But you "good" players can easily make it so that the enemies deal more damage to you specifically, and make it so that you deal less damage (replicating their increase in health), without affecting other players.

And considering that the bulk of the player base is made up of casual Elder Scrolls fans and weekend gamers, the overall best choice would be to flip the game into easy mode so that hardcore "good" players can have the choice to make it harder on their own. Realize that "choice" is the key word here, and if you do not make the choice, it's your own fault. It does not matter if you feel that you shouldn't have to. Your needs are no more or less valid than ours- it just so happens that you can get what you want easier than we can, so Zenimax decided to try and make us both happy.

Should they have done that? It's debatable whether they should or not, and the answer varies from person to person. The important thing is learning to live with the changes they're making.

Perhaps, instead of yelling at us to "adapt", you should take a bit of your own advice. Go L2P.

How did zenimax try and make both happy? All I see is their caving in to what you guys want rather then what we both want. I am a huge elder scrolls fan so I know what type of difficulty slider they have. I would be fine with having some sort of difficulty slider in place for these types of situations. How does ZOS handle it for eso? Well they nerf VR and don't even add a difficulty slider into the game. I am nowhere near the best player, but I still love having a challenge. I get better by practicing something you don't know the concept of.
@emeraldbay

I think you missed my entire point. You can still get the difficulty you so desperately desire. All you have to do is get some underleveled armor and gear. Is that so hard that you just can't stand the thought of it, or are you simply too high and mighty to be bothered with the concept of compromise?

Like I said before why should players who worked just as or harder then you have to weaken themselves for a challenge? That does not sound fair at all and as much as this is thrown around it stops people from playing their way.
@emeraldbay

Either way, a group will be unhappy, ZOS has to make a decision which group to make more or less happy, thus satisfying the largest portion of players. Most players aren't as good as you. Most players don't group with others and most players seem to play alone. Thus they need to cater some of the content towards them.

I'm one of those players who prefer to play alone. I'm just learning how to handle different circumstances. I find it weird that in an mmo most people don't group especially considering multiplayers in the name.
@Maximis_ESO

There are massive amounts of people that enjoy MMOs but seldom group and here is why:

They enjoy other forms of social interaction. MMO doesn't stand for massive group content online. It stands for massive multi player online. There are many elements to an MMO that have nothing to do with group content. An MMO is a social hub for people with like minded interests to socialize. Group content is only one way of many ways for people to enjoy an MMO.

The argument that you shouldn't play an MMO unless you want to group with other people is very narrow minded. There is absolutely nothing wrong with playing an MMO and enjoying the environment without grouping.

You can pay admission to a football game because you love being a part of the crowd. But you don't have to go there with a group of people to enjoy it.

emeraldbay · July 2014

brandon wrote: »

First of all lol on the edit. Yes we can't discard other posts that's not what I was trying to do. I was trying to make a point with that post and you thought I was taking back my other posts. I'm not doing that. I still say that this shouldn't be happening and that everyone complaining should have just adapted and learned from their failures. However since we both know this is going to happen I said I would be happy if they added a difficulty slider so people who want it easier can make it easier, while people who want challenge could make it harder.
@emeraldbay

As crude as it is, your choice of gear is your difficulty slider, for the time being. Leave the pro-mode armor and weapons at home until you actually need it (I can explain, if you'd like, how this is exactly like having a difficulty slider). Again, you choose whether or not you want to adapt to the new content. Ultimately, only you can decide which is of more value to you: having a good challenge, or wearing the best armor all the time.

That aside, I would wholeheartedly welcome the addition of a difficulty slider. They're going in the right direction with the whole "battle level" setting, even though it only works in a handful of places.

Ojustaboo · July 2014

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

emeraldbay wrote: »

Innocente wrote: »

Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?

So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.

Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.

By "suffer" you must mean being expected to learn the actual game mechanics like roll dodge, block, and using more than 5 abilities?

If you want to make things easier why don't you pick up Volcanic Rune from Mages Guild and spam enemies into the air until they die, and stop trying to punish people that actually enjoy a game that engages you and makes you THINK about what you are doing instead of just another mindless easy mode grind.

Arguments like that are like a nickel. They can flip either way and neither buys you any valid points.

emeraldbay wrote: »

brandon wrote: »

emeraldbay wrote: »

brandon wrote: »

emeraldbay wrote: »

brandon wrote: »

Maximis_ESO wrote: »

brandon wrote: »

emeraldbay wrote: »

Innocente wrote: »

Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?

So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.

Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.

Why should players who may or may not have worked harder then you, suddenly need to limit themselves so "casuals" can have easier content? That seems kinda selfish to me. You can play the way you want while so many others can't play how they want.
@emeraldbay

How is it selfish? It is equally selfish for you to want it "your" way... don't you think? Seems like it is hypocritical if you ask me.....

Look at it this way alright. It can go 2 ways
1 "good players" can weaken themselves so "weaker" players can have fun even though they worked really hard to get what they have.
2 "weaker" players can practice and get better so "good" players can have fun
The way I see it is if the good players weaken themselves they won't ever have any fun. Where if the weak players learn and get better eventually everyone can have fun.
@Maximis_ESO

*snip*
So, are "good" players only able to have fun if they're using their super amazing awesome Legendary armor with all gold enchantments and purple recipes and the best potions ever?

Think of a difficulty setting in a single-player game. What exactly does it do?

While some games will go deeper than others (changing enemy AI, moving enemies to different areas), they will all change two basic things: damage and health.

In hard mode, enemies will do more damage and have more health than in easy mode. This is the most basic incarnation of the "difficulty setting".

Now, we "weaker" players can do nothing to make the enemies deal less damage and have less overall health. We're stuck on hard mode when we want to play on easy.

But you "good" players can easily make it so that the enemies deal more damage to you specifically, and make it so that you deal less damage (replicating their increase in health), without affecting other players.

And considering that the bulk of the player base is made up of casual Elder Scrolls fans and weekend gamers, the overall best choice would be to flip the game into easy mode so that hardcore "good" players can have the choice to make it harder on their own. Realize that "choice" is the key word here, and if you do not make the choice, it's your own fault. It does not matter if you feel that you shouldn't have to. Your needs are no more or less valid than ours- it just so happens that you can get what you want easier than we can, so Zenimax decided to try and make us both happy.

Should they have done that? It's debatable whether they should or not, and the answer varies from person to person. The important thing is learning to live with the changes they're making.

Perhaps, instead of yelling at us to "adapt", you should take a bit of your own advice. Go L2P.

How did zenimax try and make both happy? All I see is their caving in to what you guys want rather then what we both want. I am a huge elder scrolls fan so I know what type of difficulty slider they have. I would be fine with having some sort of difficulty slider in place for these types of situations. How does ZOS handle it for eso? Well they nerf VR and don't even add a difficulty slider into the game. I am nowhere near the best player, but I still love having a challenge. I get better by practicing something you don't know the concept of.
@emeraldbay

I think you missed my entire point. You can still get the difficulty you so desperately desire. All you have to do is get some underleveled armor and gear. Is that so hard that you just can't stand the thought of it, or are you simply too high and mighty to be bothered with the concept of compromise?

Like I said before why should players who worked just as or harder then you have to weaken themselves for a challenge? That does not sound fair at all and as much as this is thrown around it stops people from playing their way.
@emeraldbay

Likewise, why should players who are already doing their best and failing have to put up with content that they can't complete just so that you can have a challenge that, mind you, you can still have if you'd just follow my suggestions? At this point, you're making the conscious decision not to adapt to the situation at hand.

I'm beginning to wonder if you're actually this stubborn or if you just haven't paid attention to the things I'm telling you.

Trouble is that line of debate always goes both ways.

For example, if you find content too hard on your own, instead of expecting others not to use the gear they have worked to craft etc, you could always join a group, just one other player, then it will be much easier and others don't have to compromise their playstyle.

You might not like grouping but I don't like not wearing my armour or using my skills and you are asking me to compromise my playstyle and me not play how I want for the sole reason you don't want to to compromise and group.

You could adapt to the situation and group.

Those that hate grouping, are you in a decent guild? I'm not talking about 5 random guilds, I'm talking about going to say Tamriel Foundry, posting on the guild recruitment section of their forum detailing what you are looking for, what some of your interests are, what timezone you play etc.

I cant stand playing with random players but I could never play without being in a decent guild, I have built up some great online friendships over the past 3 months and if I logged on now and needed a hand with vet content, I know there will be a few guildies more than happy to give me a hand.

And for those that don't want to be in such a guild, that's your choice but if you aren't prepared to make sacrifices to get your ideal play, please don't suggest I should make sacrifices for your behalf.

RazielSR · July 2014

The ones blaming now are not the tes fans,nor the ones that will be playing this game. They will rush the next mmo and will forget tes universe. The game needs to be more tes,not morebrandom mmrpg. The whole game needs more solo content. All the updates were about groups. TES means roleplaying,exploration,fantastic views,good quests,interaction,characterc progression,IMMERSION. This cant be like thebother mmos. So good for ZOS. Listen to the real TES fans not the ones that are just elitists and want this game to be something that isvnot TES.

brandon · July 2014

emeraldbay wrote: »

brandon wrote: »

First of all lol on the edit. Yes we can't discard other posts that's not what I was trying to do. I was trying to make a point with that post and you thought I was taking back my other posts. I'm not doing that. I still say that this shouldn't be happening and that everyone complaining should have just adapted and learned from their failures. However since we both know this is going to happen I said I would be happy if they added a difficulty slider so people who want it easier can make it easier, while people who want challenge could make it harder.
@emeraldbay

As crude as it is, your choice of gear is your difficulty slider, for the time being. Leave the pro-mode armor and weapons at home until you actually need it (I can explain, if you'd like, how this is exactly like having a difficulty slider). Again, you choose whether or not you want to adapt to the new content. Ultimately, only you can decide which is of more value to you: having a good challenge, or wearing the best armor all the time.

That aside, I would wholeheartedly welcome the addition of a difficulty slider. They're going in the right direction with the whole "battle level" setting, even though it only works in a handful of places.

I have a great difficulty slider idea imo of course. Why not have npc mercenaries the more you hire the easier it is. I don't know how hard that would be to implement, but I think it's a good idea. I saw a few people throwing this idea around as well.

No thanks I understand what you mean by the gear difficulty slider. I still don't think that it's a fair way to go about things though. A lot of players put a lot of effort towards getting the gear they have. Now having to throw it away to get a challenge pretty much means your regressing not progressing.
@emeraldbay

emeraldbay · July 2014

brandon wrote: »

emeraldbay wrote: »

brandon wrote: »

First of all lol on the edit. Yes we can't discard other posts that's not what I was trying to do. I was trying to make a point with that post and you thought I was taking back my other posts. I'm not doing that. I still say that this shouldn't be happening and that everyone complaining should have just adapted and learned from their failures. However since we both know this is going to happen I said I would be happy if they added a difficulty slider so people who want it easier can make it easier, while people who want challenge could make it harder.
@emeraldbay

As crude as it is, your choice of gear is your difficulty slider, for the time being. Leave the pro-mode armor and weapons at home until you actually need it (I can explain, if you'd like, how this is exactly like having a difficulty slider). Again, you choose whether or not you want to adapt to the new content. Ultimately, only you can decide which is of more value to you: having a good challenge, or wearing the best armor all the time.

That aside, I would wholeheartedly welcome the addition of a difficulty slider. They're going in the right direction with the whole "battle level" setting, even though it only works in a handful of places.

I have a great difficulty slider idea imo of course. Why not have npc mercenaries the more you hire the easier it is. I don't know how hard that would be to implement, but I think it's a good idea. I saw a few people throwing this idea around as well.

No thanks I understand what you mean by the gear difficulty slider. I still don't think that it's a fair way to go about things though. A lot of players put a lot of effort towards getting the gear they have. Now having to throw it away to get a challenge pretty much means your regressing not progressing.
@emeraldbay

I never said it was the most optimal way to make things more difficult, but dare I say it's much better than nothing. You don't need to throw away your best gear, you just save it for trials or bosses or dungeons or what-have-you when you actually need it. Still not the best solution, but it's a solution nonetheless. It'll likely be a temporary one.

Loving the NPC mercenaries idea though. It would be nice to have it like it was in Skyrim, where you had some followers that you got by doing favors, and some that you could hire for you. They'd all have to be chatty though, I wouldn't like them much otherwise.

brandon · July 2014

RazielSR wrote: »

The ones blaming now are not the tes fans,nor the ones that will be playing this game. They will rush the next mmo and will forget tes universe. The game needs to be more tes,not morebrandom mmrpg. The whole game needs more solo content. All the updates were about groups. TES means roleplaying,exploration,fantastic views,good quests,interaction,characterc progression,IMMERSION. This cant be like thebother mmos. So good for ZOS. Listen to the real TES fans not the ones that are just elitists and want this game to be something that isvnot TES.

Wrong i'll still be here. This game is both a TES game as well as an mmo. This game has great quests, lore, exploration, character progression. In time it will have the rest of those. However you need to understand it can't be all TES. Immersion has nothing to do with difficulty at all. This game wasn't like other mmos, other mmos didn't have a great combat system or difficulty this was supposed to be different.

brandon · July 2014

emeraldbay wrote: »

brandon wrote: »

emeraldbay wrote: »

brandon wrote: »

First of all lol on the edit. Yes we can't discard other posts that's not what I was trying to do. I was trying to make a point with that post and you thought I was taking back my other posts. I'm not doing that. I still say that this shouldn't be happening and that everyone complaining should have just adapted and learned from their failures. However since we both know this is going to happen I said I would be happy if they added a difficulty slider so people who want it easier can make it easier, while people who want challenge could make it harder.
@emeraldbay

As crude as it is, your choice of gear is your difficulty slider, for the time being. Leave the pro-mode armor and weapons at home until you actually need it (I can explain, if you'd like, how this is exactly like having a difficulty slider). Again, you choose whether or not you want to adapt to the new content. Ultimately, only you can decide which is of more value to you: having a good challenge, or wearing the best armor all the time.

That aside, I would wholeheartedly welcome the addition of a difficulty slider. They're going in the right direction with the whole "battle level" setting, even though it only works in a handful of places.

I have a great difficulty slider idea imo of course. Why not have npc mercenaries the more you hire the easier it is. I don't know how hard that would be to implement, but I think it's a good idea. I saw a few people throwing this idea around as well.

No thanks I understand what you mean by the gear difficulty slider. I still don't think that it's a fair way to go about things though. A lot of players put a lot of effort towards getting the gear they have. Now having to throw it away to get a challenge pretty much means your regressing not progressing.
@emeraldbay

I never said it was the most optimal way to make things more difficult, but dare I say it's much better than nothing. You don't need to throw away your best gear, you just save it for trials or bosses or dungeons or what-have-you when you actually need it. Still not the best solution, but it's a solution nonetheless. It'll likely be a temporary one.

Loving the NPC mercenaries idea though. It would be nice to have it like it was in Skyrim, where you had some followers that you got by doing favors, and some that you could hire for you. They'd all have to be chatty though, I wouldn't like them much otherwise.

I'm glad you like the idea.

Yes it would be cool if they did that with followers.

I don't like the idea, but it would be a temporary solution. I don't understand why ZOS wouldn't have a difficulty slider idea ready before they do this. We won't know how bad it will be until Monday, but knowing ZOS they are going to screw something up massively. I just hope that they add something to make it harder because removing gear you worked hard for is a really stupid compromise. I understand you can wear it for trials or dungeons, but it doesn't change the fact a lot of people put in effort to get these for pve as well.
@emeraldbay

Ojustaboo · July 2014

RazielSR wrote: »

The ones blaming now are not the tes fans,nor the ones that will be playing this game. They will rush the next mmo and will forget tes universe. The game needs to be more tes,not morebrandom mmrpg. The whole game needs more solo content. All the updates were about groups. TES means roleplaying,exploration,fantastic views,good quests,interaction,characterc progression,IMMERSION. This cant be like thebother mmos. So good for ZOS. Listen to the real TES fans not the ones that are just elitists and want this game to be something that isvnot TES.

So people have different opinions to you so they must be elitists and can't be TES fans?

My guild is a casual guild where fun is the main aim. It isn't a huge guild about 55 currently playing ESO, only one so far has expressed liking the change, many have anounced hating it.

I'm vet 3, I played Lotro for many years as did most of my guild, this is our new home. Sure theres a few with zero interest in TES, but the vast majority love TES which is what bought us here.

12 of us were grouped in PvP last night, some were discussing various TES law over voice chat as we played.

Most of us love TES, I started with Morrowind and have played every game since with eager anticipation.

We also all like mmos, the guild was founded years ago for Lotro.

Yes we all love soloing, we also all love grouping. Some play 99% grouped (in vet) others like myself solo 4 or 5 days and group a couple of nights a week for a dungeon or pvp. But if I got stuck while soloing I wouldn't hesitate calling for help and grouping for a few mins to overcome whatevers blocking my progress.

We are loving PvP (well will when its more than 4 FPS and the cheaters are dealt with) and we are loving the rest too.

We intend to be here for years.

The group content was meant originally to be ready for release but they had to push it back.

They said months prior to release about the 12 and 4 man group stuff.

We all think they got the TES / MMO balance pretty good.

The fact is, this isn't a single player TES game its both TES and MMO, and my guild loves it and will be here for years

You are calling my TES and mmo loving guild elitist and you couldn't be further from the truth,

Heres part of the "About Us" from my TES loving guilds website (a guild not happy with the changes to vet) to show what an elitist bunch we are

We are a relaxed friendly guild which aims to let the casual gamer still enjoy every aspect of gaming and be influential.

We intend to explore all aspects of the game through to end game, but to do so over time.

We have many members from across Europe and many with families and as a result we are well suited to evening players with real-life commitments.

We embrace the variety our varied guild membership brings.

We have few requirements other than that you act in a friendly fashion to other members within the guild and help to support the guild members and events.

We are a mature guild with many members having busy lives and families. We are not a hardcore gaming clan so if that’s your style then unfortunately we’re not the guild for you.

That won’t stop us from trying to achieve all we can in our game time though. We will help each other with quests, groups and crafting but we won’t be power-leveling new recruits. That’s not our style.

All we expect from you is that you join in, have fun and don’t act like a muppet.

Any excessive instances of arguing, bragging, harassment, ninja looting, immature and disruptive behaviour will be reported to the Officers and will be scythed down with laser precision.

brandon · July 2014

Ojustaboo wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

The ones blaming now are not the tes fans,nor the ones that will be playing this game. They will rush the next mmo and will forget tes universe. The game needs to be more tes,not morebrandom mmrpg. The whole game needs more solo content. All the updates were about groups. TES means roleplaying,exploration,fantastic views,good quests,interaction,characterc progression,IMMERSION. This cant be like thebother mmos. So good for ZOS. Listen to the real TES fans not the ones that are just elitists and want this game to be something that isvnot TES.

So people have different opinions to you so they must be elitists and can't be TES fans?

My guild is a casual guild where fun is the main aim. It isn't a huge guild about 55 currently playing ESO, only one so far has expressed liking the change, many have anounced hating it.

I'm vet 3, I played Lotro for many years as did most of my guild, this is our new home. Sure theres a few with zero interest in TES, but the vast majority love TES which is what bought us here.

12 of us were grouped in PvP last night, some were discussing various TES law over voice chat as we played.

Most of us love TES, I started with Morrowind and have played every game since with eager anticipation.

We also all like mmos, the guild was founded years ago for Lotro.

Yes we all love soloing, we also all love grouping. Some play 99% grouped (in vet) others like myself solo 4 or 5 days and group a couple of nights a week for a dungeon or pvp. But if I got stuck while soloing I wouldn't hesitate calling for help and grouping for a few mins to overcome whatevers blocking my progress.

We are loving PvP (well will when its more than 4 FPS and the cheaters are dealt with) and we are loving the rest too.

We intend to be here for years.

The group content was meant originally to be ready for release but they had to push it back.

They said months prior to release about the 12 and 4 man group stuff.

We all think they got the TES / MMO balance pretty good.

The fact is, this isn't a single player TES game its both TES and MMO, and my guild loves it and will be here for years

You are calling my TES and mmo loving guild elitist and you couldn't be further from the truth,

Heres the first part of my TES loving guild (a guild not happy with the changes to vet) to show what an elitist bunch we are

We are a relaxed friendly guild which aims to let the casual gamer still enjoy every aspect of gaming and be influential.

We intend to explore all aspects of the game through to end game, but to do so over time.

We have many members from across Europe and many with families and as a result we are well suited to evening players with real-life commitments.

We embrace the variety our varied guild membership brings.

We have few requirements other than that you act in a friendly fashion to other members within the guild and help to support the guild members and events.

We are a mature guild with many members having busy lives and families. We are not a hardcore gaming clan so if that’s your style then unfortunately we’re not the guild for you.

That won’t stop us from trying to achieve all we can in our game time though. We will help each other with quests, groups and crafting but we won’t be power-leveling new recruits. That’s not our style.

All we expect from you is that you join in, have fun and don’t act like a muppet.

Any excessive instances of arguing, bragging, harassment, ninja looting, immature and disruptive behaviour will be reported to the Officers and will be scythed down with laser precision.

Out of curiosity are you NA or EU?
@Ojustaboo

Ojustaboo · July 2014

EU

brandon · July 2014

Ojustaboo wrote: »

EU

Shucks oh well. Have fun.
@Ojustaboo

zScars · July 2014

wow i spent 6 hrs grinding anoms and went from v7-v12. veteran levels are so easy just get in b4 nerf bombs come

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO · July 2014

@brandon, I really, honestly don't understand. You would be fine with a difficulty slider that artificially makes the game harder for you than for others, but you are absolutely abhorred by the concept of dropping a piece of epic gear or two to achieve the exact same result. Are you saying you want the difficulty slider to separate the difficulty classes by phasing? If so, why?

How is locking one group ("average" players) out of the game altogether better than making the other group ("good" players) slightly unhappy? Even if the two groups are of about equal size, the compromise makes perfect sense.

Wear that expensive epic gear for trials and dungeons and be a demigod with your hard earned skills. Run around in a burlap sack from Coldharbour and wield trash weapons when you do quests. You will earn considerable bragging rights by rubbing your skill in the face of those of us who think that VR levels are a bit too challenging to be fun right now, and we will still note that we have a lot to learn - perhaps even be inspired to get better.

I have played single player games on max difficulty a number of times. It's fun for a while, particularly in ES games where it makes you rethink your strategy completely, but I find it tiresome and not at all fun in the long run. VR levels for me right now is like having a difficulty slider that is locked a couple of notches too high, and it is making me not want to play.

This is a game, something people do for pure fun. It's not a competition about anything that has any bearing whatsoever on real life. I don't see why you need to be condescending towards people who don't have your level of skill, and who don't have the time or ability to learn to play the game as well as you do. I'm not the kind of person that gives up in the face of challenge in real life, quite the opposite actually, but my reflexes are nowhere near as quick as they were when I were younger, and my life does not allow me to participate in scheduled gaming sessions and spend hours researching good builds and skill rotations. I'm not into e-sports. I play games, and I had the impression that this game was being designed also for people like me. It looks as if ZOS is of the same opinion, and for that I am grateful.

Having said that, a good long term solution would be that difficulty slider, but that is still a long way off. It requires changes to the core of the game, and it requires so much careful thought that we won't see it for months, if ever.

Laura · July 2014

I had friends quit over it too, but they quit because it was grindy and boring.

The only thing they actually liked about it was that it was difficult and made you use your brain.

Welcome to the wowification ladies and gentlemen. Hence fourth we shall be seeing content tuned to the lowest common denominator. It was fun while it lasted.

Animus0724 · July 2014

Maximis_ESO wrote: »

Thank you for addressing the VR content, I really appreciate it. People will say you have made the wrong decision but those people don't realize how many players have been turned off by the content. I personally lost all but 1 friend because of it.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/115102/do-you-think-veteran-content-is-too-hard/p1

The results speak for themselves, the only ones complaining are those players to lazy to learn proper tactics and strategies, i.e. dodging and blocking, learning to use your skill tree properly. These players should probably stick to WoW or go play wildstar as it is a WoW clone.

Zeni needs to take this adjustment very carefully, if vet zones become trash mob heaven, I can guarantee I and many others will leave in search for a game that actually provides a challenge, a thinking man's game if you will.

Vet needs to be less grindy, NOT EASIER, don't go ignoring the greater amount of players that think its fine in order to cater to the lazy,COD type gamers.

Alphashado · July 2014

Animus0724 wrote: »

Maximis_ESO wrote: »

Thank you for addressing the VR content, I really appreciate it. People will say you have made the wrong decision but those people don't realize how many players have been turned off by the content. I personally lost all but 1 friend because of it.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/115102/do-you-think-veteran-content-is-too-hard/p1

The results speak for themselves, the only ones complaining are those players to lazy to learn proper tactics and strategies, i.e. dodging and blocking, learning to use your skill tree properly. These players should probably stick to WoW or go play wildstar as it is a WoW clone.

Zeni needs to take this adjustment very carefully, if vet zones become trash mob heaven, I can guarantee I and many others will leave in search for a game that actually provides a challenge, a thinking man's game if you will.

Vet needs to be less grindy, NOT EASIER, don't go ignoring the greater amount of players that think its fine in order to cater to the lazy,COD type gamers.

I'm sorry, but this kind of response is just getting old. There are many people here trying to have a structured discussion about this issue. Nobody is going to take you seriously with an attitude like that. It is almost impossible to even respond to this type of opinion without insulting you in return.

angel59 · July 2014

Ok, I will bite.

Animus0724 wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/115102/do-you-think-veteran-content-is-too-hard/p1

The results speak for themselves, the only ones complaining are those players to lazy to learn proper tactics and strategies, i.e. dodging and blocking, learning to use your skill tree properly. These players should probably stick to WoW or go play wildstar as it is a WoW clone.

I would give more credence to your poll if it had been started on May 27,rather than June 27. The players who found the VR too hard were already gone if they did not extend their one month subscription. It is kind of hard to get representative results when a portion of your population is gone. Furthermore, you have no proof whatever of the claim that they did not try different strategies. You are merely applying a condescending invalid argument because they do not play exactly like you. Hence, as @Alphashado said, few people, myself included, will take you seriously.

Further, why would anybody respond to that poll when they get over the top reactions, such as yours, for stating their opinion, which for you information, is no less valid than yours.

Zeni needs to take this adjustment very carefully, if vet zones become trash mob heaven, I can guarantee I and many others will leave in search for a game that actually provides a challenge, a thinking man's game if you will.

I have to ask, which challenging, thinking man's MMO did you leave to come play ESO? I want to ensure that I do not play it because I do find VR5 and beyond difficult, even with my changes in strategy and skills. You may also help the hardcore community find an alternative challenging game in the event that ESO becomes a cakewalk.

Vet needs to be less grindy, NOT EASIER, don't go ignoring the greater amount of players that think its fine in order to cater to the lazy,COD type gamers.

Please provide the source of this majority of players, other than the poll you posted, which is not representative of all players, (should include those who left due to VR difficulty). I am sure that ZOS is making a decision based on internal analysis of all their data, not the complaints that were voiced in the past.

Anastasia · July 2014

Maximis_ESO wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Don't count your chickens before they are hatched.

If they make the VR content more like levels 1-50 it will be very much more ES. In VR content you get 0 xp for exploration and little to no xp for killing, side quests etc. I think it will be better if they do what they say they will do.

And I think it would be better if they do what they SAID they would do - as in staying committed to the core mechanics and features in Vet Content which drew me/many of us to Tamriel in the first place, but added additional content for those that desire it.

Maximis_ESO · July 2014

Anastasia wrote: »

Maximis_ESO wrote: »

wrlifeboil wrote: »

Don't count your chickens before they are hatched.

If they make the VR content more like levels 1-50 it will be very much more ES. In VR content you get 0 xp for exploration and little to no xp for killing, side quests etc. I think it will be better if they do what they say they will do.

And I think it would be better if they do what they SAID they would do - as in staying committed to the core mechanics and features in Vet Content which drew me/many of us to Tamriel in the first place, but added additional content for those that desire it.

VR content scared a lot of people off, it wasn't like they advertised and obviously it wasn't how they wanted it to be. They never wanted to force or make people have to group to do content, they wanted to encourage it. It may have drawn you but it didn't quite draw in the crowd they wanted otherwise they wouldn't be changing it.

Maximis_ESO · July 2014

Animus0724 wrote: »

Maximis_ESO wrote: »

Thank you for addressing the VR content, I really appreciate it. People will say you have made the wrong decision but those people don't realize how many players have been turned off by the content. I personally lost all but 1 friend because of it.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/115102/do-you-think-veteran-content-is-too-hard/p1

The results speak for themselves, the only ones complaining are those players to lazy to learn proper tactics and strategies, i.e. dodging and blocking, learning to use your skill tree properly. These players should probably stick to WoW or go play wildstar as it is a WoW clone.

Zeni needs to take this adjustment very carefully, if vet zones become trash mob heaven, I can guarantee I and many others will leave in search for a game that actually provides a challenge, a thinking man's game if you will.

Vet needs to be less grindy, NOT EASIER, don't go ignoring the greater amount of players that think its fine in order to cater to the lazy,COD type gamers.

You have to be kidding me right? Everyone who hates VR has already left the game..... why do you think ZOS is changing it? Because a few people raged out on forums? No, they have so much more in it than that. You think that they don't have access to when numbers dropped? What level the majority of players are when their accounts become inactive? They are a smart company making a smart move. The results are skewed and if you can't see that you don't know sampling bias.

Gokmak · July 2014

AlienDiplomat wrote: »

Meanwhile the huge number of people who would have been your raid leaders left because the challenge and intelligent strategy component of the game which set it apart from so many other mindless grinds has been nerfed to the ground for people who don't want to roll dodge, block, or slot more than 5 abilities, learn to CC, swap to range as a situation calls for it, etc. because they are "playing how THEY want to."

That whole cliche has really become a little selfish if you ask me, and perhaps just a little lazy.

But I am happy for you. Enjoy what is left of the game. I will withhold final judgement until I see if they totally destroy it. I sincerely hope they realize the majority of their player base do NOT have trouble with the above mentioned mechanics, and find a happy medium.

LOL I couldn't read past the bolded text... yeah, huge number of raid leaders LOL this must be the devs highest priority LOL we gotta keep them raid leaders happy! Who cares about all the other people in this game LOL it's all about the elites LOL

MonkeyAssassin24 · July 2014

I don't think the problem is that some people like a challenge and others don't, I think it's the balance and the manner in which the difficulty is present. There is no reason that a group of two or three v7 Hoarker bugs (or whatever those blood-sucking *** are called) should be able to two-shot players, or after gruelingly battling your way through packs of enemy, you find yourself easily dispatching their leader. You character in vet content did the improbable and brought a faction together before leading an expedition into a daedric prince's stronghold and saved the world and suddenly a trio of pirates can take me out if I make one misstep? Also why do they have that named mob guarding that crucial item I need? He presents no challenge at all but if I saw two menders, a warrior, and an archer standing next to it, well then their plan may actually succeed.

The slider idea, while perfectly fine in single player games, just won't be beneficial to an MMO. There would always be resentment towards people who "took the easy way", and of course you would have players lower it to easiest simply so they can plow through to the end, or give up on a tough encounter by lowering it just to get by.

There can be difficulty in the world, that is fine, but why can't it be in an area that maybe isn't crucial to important quests? So a power hungry warlord is leading mercenary attacks out of a cave, and they are well-trained. I go in, and they are all elite mobs (whatever the "one dot" mobs are), and that warlord is a handful. Hell yeah I know this is going to be a tough quest, but, if I'm not strong or skilled enough to do it, I don't have to.

Also, difficulty in a game can be fun, and yes the satisfaction of victory in itself is rewarding, but when you slog your way through an area of very tough mob groups and get rewarded with a couple hundred gold and a useless green item, it's depressing. I'm not saying everyone is in it ONLY for xp and Only for gear, but it's nice to know that your character is making progress when you accomplish getting through tough areas.

Even though I get by (v7 at the moment) I hate the fact that some punk bandit can hit me with a 1k+ damage attack or two. This shouldn't happen from normal mobs. Elites and bosses? Bring it on, but please let me teach the lackeys a lesson in power.