Thank you ZOS and Staff
Maximis_ESO
✭✭✭✭
Thank you for addressing the VR content, I really appreciate it. People will say you have made the wrong decision but those people don't realize how many players have been turned off by the content. I personally lost all but 1 friend because of it.
Anyways, thank you for addressing the situation, I believe that you have made the right choice..... getting the game back to where people can play it "how they want" and not have to group or have to play a ranged class in order to do well in VR zones.
Thanks and best of luck!
Anyways, thank you for addressing the situation, I believe that you have made the right choice..... getting the game back to where people can play it "how they want" and not have to group or have to play a ranged class in order to do well in VR zones.
Thanks and best of luck!
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Innocente✭✭✭✭Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?
So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.8 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Meanwhile the huge number of people who would have been your raid leaders left because the challenge and intelligent strategy component of the game which set it apart from so many other mindless grinds has been nerfed to the ground for people who don't want to roll dodge, block, or slot more than 5 abilities, learn to CC, swap to range as a situation calls for it, etc. because they are "playing how THEY want to."
That whole cliche has really become a little selfish if you ask me, and perhaps just a little lazy.
But I am happy for you. Enjoy what is left of the game. I will withhold final judgement until I see if they totally destroy it. I sincerely hope they realize the majority of their player base do NOT have trouble with the above mentioned mechanics, and find a happy medium.
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emeraldbay✭✭✭✭✭
Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?
So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.-T h e - A l d m e r i - I n i t i a t i v e-— O r d e r - o f - t h e - R a v y n —7 -
Maximis_ESO✭✭✭✭I understand that you are both angry, but they have lost so many players.... no matter what they do they will not please everyone. They didn't say anything about nerfing group content, raid content etc. They will still be difficult and challenging. The whole game won't be solo grind, but it should be able to be done with a group or solo.
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Maximis_ESO✭✭✭✭wrlifeboil wrote: »Don't count your chickens before they are hatched.
If they make the VR content more like levels 1-50 it will be very much more ES. In VR content you get 0 xp for exploration and little to no xp for killing, side quests etc. I think it will be better if they do what they say they will do.
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Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭emeraldbay wrote: »
Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?
So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.
By "suffer" you must mean being expected to learn the actual game mechanics like roll dodge, block, and using more than 5 abilities?
If you want to make things easier why don't you pick up Volcanic Rune from Mages Guild and spam enemies into the air until they die, and stop trying to punish people that actually enjoy a game that engages you and makes you THINK about what you are doing instead of just another mindless easy mode grind.
Arguments like that are like a nickel. They can flip either way and neither buys you any valid points.3 -
Kulthax✭✭✭So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.
I am confused.![:\](https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
How do the proposed changes, change the way you will play? How will those changes force you to play differently than you are now?
If I read your previous threads/posts correctly your main complaint was that you and your partner would not group any longer, why? It sounds as if you are making an excuse to not group when the choice is yours no matter how difficult the content is, correct?
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Maximis_ESO✭✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?
So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.
By "suffer" you must mean being expected to learn the actual game mechanics like roll dodge, block, and using more than 5 abilities?
If you want to make things easier why don't you pick up Volcanic Rune from Mages Guild and spam enemies into the air until they die, and stop trying to punish people that actually enjoy a game that engages you and makes you THINK about what you are doing instead of just another mindless easy mode grind.
Arguments like that are like a nickel. They can flip either way and neither buys you any valid points.
Not everyone is a "good" player like you. Not everyone is up for the "challenge" of group content as a solo player. VR content was meant to encourage grouping but most people run through solo..... it only makes sense to make it somewhat more soloable.
It will help the game, most people if you look in your guilds quit around VR 1-3 and the zones are mostly dead. Even Craglorn looks slim compared to when it first came out.
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Innocente✭✭✭✭Kulthax,
To answer your question, we were looking forward to MORE challenging content in VR zones, not the same or less. IF we continue playing, it will be as a group. But, if it turns out that the VR content is now just another 6 months of easy questing, well that is probably not going to make it for us.
The point is that we do not want to continue playing as we are now. We want more challenge in our everyday gaming. That is one of the main reasons we have stuck with ESO; we had the VR content to look forward to.
Now I fear that is going away.
As we may be as well.Edited by Innocente on July 5, 2014 6:00AM1 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.
I am confused.
How do the proposed changes, change the way you will play? How will those changes force you to play differently than you are now?
If I read your previous threads/posts correctly your main complaint was that you and your partner would not group any longer, why? It sounds as if you are making an excuse to not group when the choice is yours no matter how difficult the content is, correct?
What is the fun of grouping for content that dies before any strategy is needed?
No need to play as a tank or healer outside of dungeons (80% or more of the content), everything now hits like a wet noodle.
No chance to both cycle through your abilities. Enemies now have the health of a mayfly.
No real risk of dying. Makes our characters feel meaningless and uninteresting.
Sounds like rewarding group play to me.
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Maximis_ESO✭✭✭✭The reason for "trials" and a lot of the harder dungeons in the game are for people that are looking for a challenge, why make it difficult on the average player? The game should be a challenge but for most average joe's out there it is more than a challenge, it is a grind and boring and nothing compared to the original 50 levels where you were rewarded for exploration, looting chests, killing monsters, etc. They needed to do something......2
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Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maximis_ESO wrote: »The reason for "trials" and a lot of the harder dungeons in the game are for people that are looking for a challenge, why make it difficult on the average player? The game should be a challenge but for most average joe's out there it is more than a challenge, it is a grind and boring and nothing compared to the original 50 levels where you were rewarded for exploration, looting chests, killing monsters, etc. They needed to do something......
Trials are kinda stupid TBO, though I will reserve judgement until I test them out more. But seriously, any content that is based on 12 people getting together to try and skip or rush through as much as possible just to get to the boss and get that leaderboard status is doomed to be an elitist mash fest.
Not a particularly fun alternative to the 80% of the game that just got nerfed because people cry about a learning curve and "forced grouping" in an "MMO."1 -
Innocente✭✭✭✭Timed content (Fractals) in GW2 are the main reason I left GW2. A complete reversal of the stated design philosophy at launch. Not only are they fundamentally just a disguised daily quest line, but they also introduced gear grinding into the game.
So, having timed trials in ESO is a total negative for me. I am sure it is great for some folks, but I will pass.0 -
wrlifeboil✭✭✭✭✭Maximis_ESO wrote: »wrlifeboil wrote: »Don't count your chickens before they are hatched.
If they make the VR content more like levels 1-50 it will be very much more ES. In VR content you get 0 xp for exploration and little to no xp for killing, side quests etc. I think it will be better if they do what they say they will do.
Reducing the damage done by VR mobs and lowering the overall health of VR mobs by a few percent would make more sense. But I trust that ZOS will chose whichever option that will result in the greatest amount of bugs post-patch.2 -
Maximis_ESO✭✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »Maximis_ESO wrote: »The reason for "trials" and a lot of the harder dungeons in the game are for people that are looking for a challenge, why make it difficult on the average player? The game should be a challenge but for most average joe's out there it is more than a challenge, it is a grind and boring and nothing compared to the original 50 levels where you were rewarded for exploration, looting chests, killing monsters, etc. They needed to do something......
Trials are kinda stupid TBO, though I will reserve judgement until I test them out more. But seriously, any content that is based on 12 people getting together to try and skip or rush through as much as possible just to get to the boss and get that leaderboard status is doomed to be an elitist mash fest.
Not a particularly fun alternative to the 80% of the game that just got nerfed because people cry about a learning curve and "forced grouping" in an "MMO."
It sounds like you haven't played the game nearly enough then. It wasn't that it is a learning curve..... it was not a learning curve, it was called play a range class because VR mobs have tons of HP and kill you in a few hits...... Forcing people to group when someone who wants to play SOLO is unable to do so enjoyably..... group if you want, it will make it easier but still be challenging for all those that want to play solo..... also it isn't 80% of content.... more like 66.66%
@Innocente that is understandable but ESO is nothing like GW2 and it already has a gear grind.... they will come out with patches increase VR which is essentially adding more tiers which is a gear treadmill. Gear treadmills keep MMO's going.... gives players something to play for, an incentive while GW2 lost many of its playerbase due to the fact that 2 days after hitting max level they had the best items in the game (Trust me, I was there and so bored)
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Fuzzylumpkins✭✭✭✭The content already offers no challenge, therefore making the current VR6-10 mobs hitting for generically insane damage felt insulting. So I will not disagree with you OP or with the VR mob dmg being addressed. It always felt generic that we (players0 felt semi powerful to suddenly get smoked in VR1 content by the first bug you crossed simply because your scale was 1:1 and the mobs were 1:1000. It has always felt cheap.
Even after hitting vr12 in all legendary quality gear mixing 3 sets and going back to finish a VR8 quest to get 1 or 2 shot by a mob, drove home that lazy scale tossed on VR mobs.
This is a good change. Not because it lowers the vr scale of mobs, but because it brings them in line with what the scale should have been.2 -
Maximis_ESO✭✭✭✭wrlifeboil wrote: »Maximis_ESO wrote: »wrlifeboil wrote: »Don't count your chickens before they are hatched.
If they make the VR content more like levels 1-50 it will be very much more ES. In VR content you get 0 xp for exploration and little to no xp for killing, side quests etc. I think it will be better if they do what they say they will do.
Reducing the damage done by VR mobs and lowering the overall health of VR mobs by a few percent would make more sense. But I trust that ZOS will chose whichever option that will result in the greatest amount of bugs post-patch.
Yeah it would make sense, a 2 hand medium armor warrior doesn't stand much of a chance against 3 VR mobs.... it is VERY difficult. On top of that there is little incentive to explore because the reward is so terrible.... sounds like they may or may not work on fixing that.1 -
Innocente✭✭✭✭Was just saying that timed instanced content is not my thing. I prefer needing thoughtful strategy over zerg. In a lot of the raid boss fights I have been in, we spent more time setting it up than some of the timed content for an entire run.0
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Maximis_ESO✭✭✭✭Was just saying that timed instanced content is not my thing. I prefer needing thoughtful strategy over zerg. In a lot of the raid boss fights I have been in, we spent more time setting it up than some of the timed content for an entire run.
I think their intent of trials was not to see who can skip the most trash but who can complete it the fastest, dying the least and doing the best against bosses.... from my experience it is a race but its a race that you have to be careful in, do your best and not die more than a certain amount of time which means that strategy is very important.
VR content will still require strategy, you will still more than likely have to block attacks and roll out of the way because if you don't you will die just like in 1-50 content.
But I do understand where you are coming from, I just think that by them changing VR content it will bring more players back to the game. Its not that it needs changing but the scaling just needs to be balanced is all.
Edited by Maximis_ESO on July 5, 2014 6:13AM0 -
emeraldbay✭✭✭✭✭
So, because you're too lazy to make things harder on yourself, all of us non-"leet" players have to resort to cookie-cutter classes and spamming abilities we should never absolutely need in the first place?AlienDiplomat wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?
So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.
By "suffer" you must mean being expected to learn the actual game mechanics like roll dodge, block, and using more than 5 abilities?
If you want to make things easier why don't you pick up Volcanic Rune from Mages Guild and spam enemies into the air until they die, and stop trying to punish people that actually enjoy a game that engages you and makes you THINK about what you are doing instead of just another mindless easy mode grind.
Arguments like that are like a nickel. They can flip either way and neither buys you any valid points.
If my argument is a nickel, yours is a penny.-T h e - A l d m e r i - I n i t i a t i v e-— O r d e r - o f - t h e - R a v y n —1 -
Wolfshead✭✭✭✭Just for VR content get easy to lvl up in don't mean that dungeon and raid will be easy that will be say i think make VR content easy will make a lot more fun to play i mean serious atm me XP hardly move at all i can complete like 3 to 4 quest and XP are hardly move and not gave us any XP from exploration (which was one of there sale pitch for ESO that want to people to explore game) and when you hit VR content you wont get XP so what will happen basically everyone will just do quest and that is it.If you find yourself alone, riding in green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled; for you are in Elysium, and you're already deadWhat we do in life, echoes in eternity0 -
brandon✭✭✭✭emeraldbay wrote: »
Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?
So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.
Why should players who may or may not have worked harder then you, suddenly need to limit themselves so "casuals" can have easier content? That seems kinda selfish to me. You can play the way you want while so many others can't play how they want.
@emeraldbay0 -
Maximis_ESO✭✭✭✭Just for VR content get easy to lvl up in don't mean that dungeon and raid will be easy that will be say i think make VR content easy will make a lot more fun to play i mean serious atm me XP hardly move at all i can complete like 3 to 4 quest and XP are hardly move and not gave us any XP from exploration (which was one of there sale pitch for ESO that want to people to explore game) and when you hit VR content you wont get XP so what will happen basically everyone will just do quest and that is it.
I agree with you, the 1-50 content seems to be what they advertised while VR surprised a lot of people.1 -
emeraldbay✭✭✭✭✭
Actually, if the content is (for us) unplayable unless we do it exactly such and such way, then we can't play the way we want. We have to play the way everyone else does. On the flip side, you can still play the way you want. It's up to you - limit yourself so you can have the "challenging group content" you so desperately desire (which, need I remind you, exists in the form of Craglorn, dungeons and delves, PvP, etc.), or use the absolute best gear with the best enchantments and the most OP builds and complain when you faceroll through everything. Seems like a relatively easy decision, but it's not mine to make.emeraldbay wrote: »
Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?
So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.
Why should players who may or may not have worked harder then you, suddenly need to limit themselves so "casuals" can have easier content? That seems kinda selfish to me. You can play the way you want while so many others can't play how they want.
@emeraldbay-T h e - A l d m e r i - I n i t i a t i v e-— O r d e r - o f - t h e - R a v y n —1 -
brandon✭✭✭✭emeraldbay wrote: »
So, because you're too lazy to make things harder on yourself, all of us non-"leet" players have to resort to cookie-cutter classes and spamming abilities we should never absolutely need in the first place?AlienDiplomat wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?
So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.
By "suffer" you must mean being expected to learn the actual game mechanics like roll dodge, block, and using more than 5 abilities?
If you want to make things easier why don't you pick up Volcanic Rune from Mages Guild and spam enemies into the air until they die, and stop trying to punish people that actually enjoy a game that engages you and makes you THINK about what you are doing instead of just another mindless easy mode grind.
Arguments like that are like a nickel. They can flip either way and neither buys you any valid points.
If my argument is a nickel, yours is a penny.
@emeraldbay
I could say the reverse to you. In fact because your to lazy to learn how to dodge, block and use more then 5 abilities, all of us so called "leet" players need to handicap ourselves to have a challenge. That sounds fair right? I don't think so.2 -
wrlifeboil✭✭✭✭✭Maximis_ESO wrote: »wrlifeboil wrote: »Maximis_ESO wrote: »wrlifeboil wrote: »Don't count your chickens before they are hatched.
If they make the VR content more like levels 1-50 it will be very much more ES. In VR content you get 0 xp for exploration and little to no xp for killing, side quests etc. I think it will be better if they do what they say they will do.
Reducing the damage done by VR mobs and lowering the overall health of VR mobs by a few percent would make more sense. But I trust that ZOS will chose whichever option that will result in the greatest amount of bugs post-patch.
Yeah it would make sense, a 2 hand medium armor warrior doesn't stand much of a chance against 3 VR mobs.... it is VERY difficult. On top of that there is little incentive to explore because the reward is so terrible.... sounds like they may or may not work on fixing that.
I'm playing a dk alt in vet ranks now and it is much different than when I was playing my nb in vet ranks. It's easier to get into a satisfying rhythm or cadence with a dk and the overall experience is just less tedious. I'm convinced that whoever designed vet ranks balanced them around dks (and/or maybe sorcs, I don't have a VR sorc). If I see a nb struggling in a VR solo or public dungeon or on a quest, I try to help probably more out of pity than camraderie. 1 -
Maximis_ESO✭✭✭✭emeraldbay wrote: »
Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?
So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.
Why should players who may or may not have worked harder then you, suddenly need to limit themselves so "casuals" can have easier content? That seems kinda selfish to me. You can play the way you want while so many others can't play how they want.
@emeraldbay
How is it selfish? It is equally selfish for you to want it "your" way... don't you think? Seems like it is hypocritical if you ask me.....
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emeraldbay✭✭✭✭✭
It's funny how you assume we don't block or dodge or switch up our abilities. In case I missed something and you're suddenly an omniscient being, you have no idea how I play. I'll go ahead and tell you that I do, in fact, block, dodge, and change my abilities to suit different situations, as do many other players in this predicament. Perhaps we should stop with the conclusion-jumping and focus on facts.emeraldbay wrote: »
So, because you're too lazy to make things harder on yourself, all of us non-"leet" players have to resort to cookie-cutter classes and spamming abilities we should never absolutely need in the first place?AlienDiplomat wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?
So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.
By "suffer" you must mean being expected to learn the actual game mechanics like roll dodge, block, and using more than 5 abilities?
If you want to make things easier why don't you pick up Volcanic Rune from Mages Guild and spam enemies into the air until they die, and stop trying to punish people that actually enjoy a game that engages you and makes you THINK about what you are doing instead of just another mindless easy mode grind.
Arguments like that are like a nickel. They can flip either way and neither buys you any valid points.
If my argument is a nickel, yours is a penny.
@emeraldbay
I could say the reverse to you. In fact because your to lazy to learn how to dodge, block and use more then 5 abilities, all of us so called "leet" players need to handicap ourselves to have a challenge. That sounds fair right? I don't think so.-T h e - A l d m e r i - I n i t i a t i v e-— O r d e r - o f - t h e - R a v y n —2 -
brandon✭✭✭✭emeraldbay wrote: »
Actually, if the content is (for us) unplayable unless we do it exactly such and such way, then we can't play the way we want. We have to play the way everyone else does. On the flip side, you can still play the way you want. It's up to you - limit yourself so you can have the "challenging group content" you so desperately desire (which, need I remind you, exists in the form of Craglorn, dungeons and delves, PvP, etc.), or use the absolute best gear with the best enchantments and the most OP builds and complain when you faceroll through everything. Seems like a relatively easy decision, but it's not mine to make.emeraldbay wrote: »
Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?
So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.
Why should players who may or may not have worked harder then you, suddenly need to limit themselves so "casuals" can have easier content? That seems kinda selfish to me. You can play the way you want while so many others can't play how they want.
@emeraldbay
@emeraldbay
The problem is you don't need to do it in "such and such way" to do well. You choose to not learn how to ADAPT keyword here is ADAPT. Again why should players who worked hard suddenly need to handicap themselves so others get their way.
Edited by brandon on July 5, 2014 6:47AM1