Maintenance for the week of September 15:
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 15, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 15, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
Thank you ZOS and Staff
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emeraldbay✭✭✭✭✭
I'll just refer you over to my previous post.emeraldbay wrote: »
Actually, if the content is (for us) unplayable unless we do it exactly such and such way, then we can't play the way we want. We have to play the way everyone else does. On the flip side, you can still play the way you want. It's up to you - limit yourself so you can have the "challenging group content" you so desperately desire (which, need I remind you, exists in the form of Craglorn, dungeons and delves, PvP, etc.), or use the absolute best gear with the best enchantments and the most OP builds and complain when you faceroll through everything. Seems like a relatively easy decision, but it's not mine to make.emeraldbay wrote: »
Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?
So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.
Why should players who may or may not have worked harder then you, suddenly need to limit themselves so "casuals" can have easier content? That seems kinda selfish to me. You can play the way you want while so many others can't play how they want.
@emeraldbay
@emeraldbay
The problem is you don't need to do it in "such and such way" to do well. You choose to not learn how to ADAPT keyword here is ADAPT. Again why should players who worked hard suddenly need to handicap themselves so others get their way.-T h e - A l d m e r i - I n i t i a t i v e-— O r d e r - o f - t h e - R a v y n —0 -
Maximis_ESO✭✭✭✭emeraldbay wrote: »
Actually, if the content is (for us) unplayable unless we do it exactly such and such way, then we can't play the way we want. We have to play the way everyone else does. On the flip side, you can still play the way you want. It's up to you - limit yourself so you can have the "challenging group content" you so desperately desire (which, need I remind you, exists in the form of Craglorn, dungeons and delves, PvP, etc.), or use the absolute best gear with the best enchantments and the most OP builds and complain when you faceroll through everything. Seems like a relatively easy decision, but it's not mine to make.emeraldbay wrote: »
Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?
So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.
Why should players who may or may not have worked harder then you, suddenly need to limit themselves so "casuals" can have easier content? That seems kinda selfish to me. You can play the way you want while so many others can't play how they want.
@emeraldbay
@emeraldbay
The problem is you don't need to do it in "such and such way" to do well. You choose to not learn how to ADAPT keyword here is ADAPT. Again why should players who worked hard suddenly need to handicap themselves so others get their way.
You do realize that most of the people that play games are just "average" right? That is the biggest crowd that they need to appeal to.... adaptation isn't present in this game. I just play a sorc or throw on a bow and dominate.... melee gets 3 shoted unless all points are in health and you play super defensive.2 -
brandon✭✭✭✭Maximis_ESO wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?
So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.
Why should players who may or may not have worked harder then you, suddenly need to limit themselves so "casuals" can have easier content? That seems kinda selfish to me. You can play the way you want while so many others can't play how they want.
@emeraldbay
How is it selfish? It is equally selfish for you to want it "your" way... don't you think? Seems like it is hypocritical if you ask me.....
Look at it this way alright. It can go 2 ways
1 "good players" can weaken themselves so "weaker" players can have fun even though they worked really hard to get what they have.
2 "weaker" players can practice and get better so "good" players can have fun
The way I see it is if the good players weaken themselves they won't ever have any fun. Where if the weak players learn and get better eventually everyone can have fun.
@Maximis_ESO1 -
BrierTOG✭✭✭I realy wish they had brought back the experience from exploring and opening chests, it is a bit more fun if you get some experience from it as well. Besides isn't exploring important anymore once you become a vetran i find it so bad.1 -
brandon✭✭✭✭emeraldbay wrote: »
It's funny how you assume we don't block or dodge or switch up our abilities. In case I missed something and you're suddenly an omniscient being, you have no idea how I play. I'll go ahead and tell you that I do, in fact, block, dodge, and change my abilities to suit different situations, as do many other players in this predicament. Perhaps we should stop with the conclusion-jumping and focus on facts.emeraldbay wrote: »
So, because you're too lazy to make things harder on yourself, all of us non-"leet" players have to resort to cookie-cutter classes and spamming abilities we should never absolutely need in the first place?AlienDiplomat wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?
So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.
By "suffer" you must mean being expected to learn the actual game mechanics like roll dodge, block, and using more than 5 abilities?
If you want to make things easier why don't you pick up Volcanic Rune from Mages Guild and spam enemies into the air until they die, and stop trying to punish people that actually enjoy a game that engages you and makes you THINK about what you are doing instead of just another mindless easy mode grind.
Arguments like that are like a nickel. They can flip either way and neither buys you any valid points.
If my argument is a nickel, yours is a penny.
@emeraldbay
I could say the reverse to you. In fact because your to lazy to learn how to dodge, block and use more then 5 abilities, all of us so called "leet" players need to handicap ourselves to have a challenge. That sounds fair right? I don't think so.
I think you have forgotten what type of game this is. If you haven't noticed it's an mmo, mmo stands for massively multiplayer online meaning sometimes you need to learn to teamup. If you do in fact dodge, block and use more then 5 abilities there is another thing called practice. Learn it.
@emeraldbay0 -
emeraldbay✭✭✭✭✭
So, are "good" players only able to have fun if they're using their super amazing awesome Legendary armor with all gold enchantments and purple recipes and the best potions ever?Maximis_ESO wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?
So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.
Why should players who may or may not have worked harder then you, suddenly need to limit themselves so "casuals" can have easier content? That seems kinda selfish to me. You can play the way you want while so many others can't play how they want.
@emeraldbay
How is it selfish? It is equally selfish for you to want it "your" way... don't you think? Seems like it is hypocritical if you ask me.....
Look at it this way alright. It can go 2 ways
1 "good players" can weaken themselves so "weaker" players can have fun even though they worked really hard to get what they have.
2 "weaker" players can practice and get better so "good" players can have fun
The way I see it is if the good players weaken themselves they won't ever have any fun. Where if the weak players learn and get better eventually everyone can have fun.
@Maximis_ESO
Think of a difficulty setting in a single-player game. What exactly does it do?
While some games will go deeper than others (changing enemy AI, moving enemies to different areas), they will all change two basic things: damage and health.
In hard mode, enemies will do more damage and have more health than in easy mode. This is the most basic incarnation of the "difficulty setting".
Now, we "weaker" players can do nothing to make the enemies deal less damage and have less overall health. We're stuck on hard mode when we want to play on easy.
But you "good" players can easily make it so that the enemies deal more damage to you specifically, and make it so that you deal less damage (replicating their increase in health), without affecting other players.
And considering that the bulk of the player base is made up of casual Elder Scrolls fans and weekend gamers, the overall best choice would be to flip the game into easy mode so that hardcore "good" players can have the choice to make it harder on their own. Realize that "choice" is the key word here, and if you do not make the choice, it's your own fault. It does not matter if you feel that you shouldn't have to. Your needs are no more or less valid than ours- it just so happens that you can get what you want easier than we can, so Zenimax decided to try and make us both happy.
Should they have done that? It's debatable whether they should or not, and the answer varies from person to person. The important thing is learning to live with the changes they're making.
Perhaps, instead of yelling at us to "adapt", you should take a bit of your own advice. Go L2P.Edited by emeraldbay on July 5, 2014 6:51AM-T h e - A l d m e r i - I n i t i a t i v e-— O r d e r - o f - t h e - R a v y n —2 -
brandon✭✭✭✭Maximis_ESO wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
Actually, if the content is (for us) unplayable unless we do it exactly such and such way, then we can't play the way we want. We have to play the way everyone else does. On the flip side, you can still play the way you want. It's up to you - limit yourself so you can have the "challenging group content" you so desperately desire (which, need I remind you, exists in the form of Craglorn, dungeons and delves, PvP, etc.), or use the absolute best gear with the best enchantments and the most OP builds and complain when you faceroll through everything. Seems like a relatively easy decision, but it's not mine to make.emeraldbay wrote: »
Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?
So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.
Why should players who may or may not have worked harder then you, suddenly need to limit themselves so "casuals" can have easier content? That seems kinda selfish to me. You can play the way you want while so many others can't play how they want.
@emeraldbay
@emeraldbay
The problem is you don't need to do it in "such and such way" to do well. You choose to not learn how to ADAPT keyword here is ADAPT. Again why should players who worked hard suddenly need to handicap themselves so others get their way.
You do realize that most of the people that play games are just "average" right? That is the biggest crowd that they need to appeal to.... adaptation isn't present in this game. I just play a sorc or throw on a bow and dominate.... melee gets 3 shoted unless all points are in health and you play super defensive.
It's alright to be average. I would call myself average I'm definitely not the best gamer out there. I practice and I get better I find it fun. Take some advice and try and get better don't just give up because your so called "average"
@Maximis_ESO1 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_MichelleA wrote: »Hey there, all. This is a reminder to keep all debates from veering into personal attacks territory, please.
They are trying to, but reacting to more then just this change.
When players gets it more easy, they learn less. And the concern quite alot shares is that, this is not the only step to make something easy. Whats next...the harder encounters?
I'll wait and see how it turned out. Should always be polite though, even if feelings gets heated. :-)Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"2 -
Kulthax✭✭✭Kulthax,
To answer your question, we were looking forward to MORE challenging content in VR zones, not the same or less. IF we continue playing, it will be as a group. But, if it turns out that the VR content is now just another 6 months of easy questing, well that is probably not going to make it for us.
The point is that we do not want to continue playing as we are now. We want more challenge in our everyday gaming. That is one of the main reasons we have stuck with ESO; we had the VR content to look forward to.
Now I fear that is going away.
As we may be as well.
So you have not made it to VR content yet?
1 -
Maximis_ESO✭✭✭✭ZOS_MichelleA wrote: »Hey there, all. This is a reminder to keep all debates from veering into personal attacks territory, please.
They are trying to, but reacting to more then just this change.
When players gets it more easy, they learn less. And the concern quite alot shares is that, this is not the only step to make something easy. Whats next...the harder encounters?
I'll wait and see how it turned out. Should always be polite though, even if feelings gets heated. :-)[/quote
Making the content more tuned for solo players won't make it easier..... it will balance it out for those that want to solo.
I fail to see how it will prevent players from learning and coming up with better builds etc.Edited by Maximis_ESO on July 5, 2014 6:56AM2 -
Kulthax✭✭✭AlienDiplomat wrote: »So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.
I am confused.![:\](https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
How do the proposed changes, change the way you will play? How will those changes force you to play differently than you are now?
If I read your previous threads/posts correctly your main complaint was that you and your partner would not group any longer, why? It sounds as if you are making an excuse to not group when the choice is yours no matter how difficult the content is, correct?
What is the fun of grouping for content that dies before any strategy is needed?
No need to play as a tank or healer outside of dungeons (80% or more of the content), everything now hits like a wet noodle.
No chance to both cycle through your abilities. Enemies now have the health of a mayfly.
No real risk of dying. Makes our characters feel meaningless and uninteresting.
Sounds like rewarding group play to me.
You are making a lot of assumptions about how easy/difficult Vet content is going to be. Just because the post said they would be bringing it more in line with level 1-50 content does not mean that the earlier content was easy. Easier than VR content, sure, but not easy.
I think the smart thing to do in this instance would be to sit back and wait. Be patient and give whatever they have planned for veteran zones a chance before rushing to quick judgements and assumptions.
Edited by Kulthax on July 5, 2014 6:59AM1 -
brandon✭✭✭✭emeraldbay wrote: »
So, are "good" players only able to have fun if they're using their super amazing awesome Legendary armor with all gold enchantments and purple recipes and the best potions ever?Maximis_ESO wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?
So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.
Why should players who may or may not have worked harder then you, suddenly need to limit themselves so "casuals" can have easier content? That seems kinda selfish to me. You can play the way you want while so many others can't play how they want.
@emeraldbay
How is it selfish? It is equally selfish for you to want it "your" way... don't you think? Seems like it is hypocritical if you ask me.....
Look at it this way alright. It can go 2 ways
1 "good players" can weaken themselves so "weaker" players can have fun even though they worked really hard to get what they have.
2 "weaker" players can practice and get better so "good" players can have fun
The way I see it is if the good players weaken themselves they won't ever have any fun. Where if the weak players learn and get better eventually everyone can have fun.
@Maximis_ESO
Think of a difficulty setting in a single-player game. What exactly does it do?
While some games will go deeper than others (changing enemy AI, moving enemies to different areas), they will all change two basic things: damage and health.
In hard mode, enemies will do more damage and have more health than in easy mode. This is the most basic incarnation of the "difficulty setting".
Now, we "weaker" players can do nothing to make the enemies deal less damage and have less overall health. We're stuck on hard mode when we want to play on easy.
But you "good" players can easily make it so that the enemies deal more damage to you specifically, and make it so that you deal less damage (replicating their increase in health), without affecting other players.
And considering that the bulk of the player base is made up of casual Elder Scrolls fans and weekend gamers, the overall best choice would be to flip the game into easy mode so that hardcore "good" players can have the choice to make it harder on their own. Realize that "choice" is the key word here, and if you do not make the choice, it's your own fault. It does not matter if you feel that you shouldn't have to. Your needs are no more or less valid than ours- it just so happens that you can get what you want easier than we can, so Zenimax decided to try and make us both happy.
Should they have done that? It's debatable whether they should or not, and the answer varies from person to person. The important thing is learning to live with the changes they're making.
Perhaps, instead of yelling at us to "adapt", you should take a bit of your own advice. Go L2P.
How did zenimax try and make both happy? All I see is their caving in to what you guys want rather then what we both want. I am a huge elder scrolls fan so I know what type of difficulty slider they have. I would be fine with having some sort of difficulty slider in place for these types of situations. How does ZOS handle it for eso? Well they nerf VR and don't even add a difficulty slider into the game. I am nowhere near the best player, but I still love having a challenge. I get better by practicing something you don't know the concept of.
@emeraldbay1 -
Maximis_ESO✭✭✭✭They also said they have more things to show at quake con and more plans for Vr content so..... waiting might be the best thing to do. I still think it was a good decision to bring it more in line with 1-50 content in regards to earning xp for exploration etc.0
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emeraldbay✭✭✭✭✭
I think you missed my entire point. You can still get the difficulty you so desperately desire. All you have to do is get some underleveled armor and gear. Is that so hard that you just can't stand the thought of it, or are you simply too high and mighty to be bothered with the concept of compromise?emeraldbay wrote: »
*snip*Maximis_ESO wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?
So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.
Why should players who may or may not have worked harder then you, suddenly need to limit themselves so "casuals" can have easier content? That seems kinda selfish to me. You can play the way you want while so many others can't play how they want.
@emeraldbay
How is it selfish? It is equally selfish for you to want it "your" way... don't you think? Seems like it is hypocritical if you ask me.....
Look at it this way alright. It can go 2 ways
1 "good players" can weaken themselves so "weaker" players can have fun even though they worked really hard to get what they have.
2 "weaker" players can practice and get better so "good" players can have fun
The way I see it is if the good players weaken themselves they won't ever have any fun. Where if the weak players learn and get better eventually everyone can have fun.
@Maximis_ESOSo, are "good" players only able to have fun if they're using their super amazing awesome Legendary armor with all gold enchantments and purple recipes and the best potions ever?
Think of a difficulty setting in a single-player game. What exactly does it do?
While some games will go deeper than others (changing enemy AI, moving enemies to different areas), they will all change two basic things: damage and health.
In hard mode, enemies will do more damage and have more health than in easy mode. This is the most basic incarnation of the "difficulty setting".
Now, we "weaker" players can do nothing to make the enemies deal less damage and have less overall health. We're stuck on hard mode when we want to play on easy.
But you "good" players can easily make it so that the enemies deal more damage to you specifically, and make it so that you deal less damage (replicating their increase in health), without affecting other players.
And considering that the bulk of the player base is made up of casual Elder Scrolls fans and weekend gamers, the overall best choice would be to flip the game into easy mode so that hardcore "good" players can have the choice to make it harder on their own. Realize that "choice" is the key word here, and if you do not make the choice, it's your own fault. It does not matter if you feel that you shouldn't have to. Your needs are no more or less valid than ours- it just so happens that you can get what you want easier than we can, so Zenimax decided to try and make us both happy.
Should they have done that? It's debatable whether they should or not, and the answer varies from person to person. The important thing is learning to live with the changes they're making.
Perhaps, instead of yelling at us to "adapt", you should take a bit of your own advice. Go L2P.
How did zenimax try and make both happy? All I see is their caving in to what you guys want rather then what we both want. I am a huge elder scrolls fan so I know what type of difficulty slider they have. I would be fine with having some sort of difficulty slider in place for these types of situations. How does ZOS handle it for eso? Well they nerf VR and don't even add a difficulty slider into the game. I am nowhere near the best player, but I still love having a challenge. I get better by practicing something you don't know the concept of.
@emeraldbayEdited by emeraldbay on July 5, 2014 7:07AM-T h e - A l d m e r i - I n i t i a t i v e-— O r d e r - o f - t h e - R a v y n —0 -
Maximis_ESO✭✭✭✭@brandon I think that you are a better player than you give yourself credit for.... VR content is hard for most people, that is why most people quit in the early VR. ZOS never said they were making it a cake walk. They want to make it so that people can solo through it without dying every other pull. As it is right now you are almost forced to group if you are an average player and often times, practicing enough doesn't ever get a lot of people to be "better" from my experience playing MMO's for the last 15 years.
Either way, ZOS is doing what they think is best. If you go back and read forum posts it is pretty obvious that a huge majority were unhappy with the VR content.
Also, almost everyone I encountered in Craglorn was not happy about it and I know a lot of people that will never go through it again to level up another character because it was such a "drag".
The best thing we can do is sit and wait. If you read the post they mentioned other plans for VR, it might be possible it is more challenging things for you.0 -
brandon✭✭✭✭emeraldbay wrote: »
I think you missed my entire point. You can still get the difficulty you so desperately desire. All you have to do is get some underleveled armor and gear. Is that so hard that you just can't stand the thought of it, or are you simply too high and mighty to be bothered with the concept of compromise?emeraldbay wrote: »
*snip*Maximis_ESO wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?
So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.
Why should players who may or may not have worked harder then you, suddenly need to limit themselves so "casuals" can have easier content? That seems kinda selfish to me. You can play the way you want while so many others can't play how they want.
@emeraldbay
How is it selfish? It is equally selfish for you to want it "your" way... don't you think? Seems like it is hypocritical if you ask me.....
Look at it this way alright. It can go 2 ways
1 "good players" can weaken themselves so "weaker" players can have fun even though they worked really hard to get what they have.
2 "weaker" players can practice and get better so "good" players can have fun
The way I see it is if the good players weaken themselves they won't ever have any fun. Where if the weak players learn and get better eventually everyone can have fun.
@Maximis_ESOSo, are "good" players only able to have fun if they're using their super amazing awesome Legendary armor with all gold enchantments and purple recipes and the best potions ever?
Think of a difficulty setting in a single-player game. What exactly does it do?
While some games will go deeper than others (changing enemy AI, moving enemies to different areas), they will all change two basic things: damage and health.
In hard mode, enemies will do more damage and have more health than in easy mode. This is the most basic incarnation of the "difficulty setting".
Now, we "weaker" players can do nothing to make the enemies deal less damage and have less overall health. We're stuck on hard mode when we want to play on easy.
But you "good" players can easily make it so that the enemies deal more damage to you specifically, and make it so that you deal less damage (replicating their increase in health), without affecting other players.
And considering that the bulk of the player base is made up of casual Elder Scrolls fans and weekend gamers, the overall best choice would be to flip the game into easy mode so that hardcore "good" players can have the choice to make it harder on their own. Realize that "choice" is the key word here, and if you do not make the choice, it's your own fault. It does not matter if you feel that you shouldn't have to. Your needs are no more or less valid than ours- it just so happens that you can get what you want easier than we can, so Zenimax decided to try and make us both happy.
Should they have done that? It's debatable whether they should or not, and the answer varies from person to person. The important thing is learning to live with the changes they're making.
Perhaps, instead of yelling at us to "adapt", you should take a bit of your own advice. Go L2P.
How did zenimax try and make both happy? All I see is their caving in to what you guys want rather then what we both want. I am a huge elder scrolls fan so I know what type of difficulty slider they have. I would be fine with having some sort of difficulty slider in place for these types of situations. How does ZOS handle it for eso? Well they nerf VR and don't even add a difficulty slider into the game. I am nowhere near the best player, but I still love having a challenge. I get better by practicing something you don't know the concept of.
@emeraldbay
Like I said before why should players who worked just as or harder then you have to weaken themselves for a challenge? That does not sound fair at all and as much as this is thrown around it stops people from playing their way.
@emeraldbay0 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am curious. Those you met in Graglorn, are they a group of lets say vet 8?
Or is it a vet 2 who tries to solo?Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"1 -
emeraldbay✭✭✭✭✭
Likewise, why should players who are already doing their best and failing have to put up with content that they can't complete just so that you can have a challenge that, mind you, you can still have if you'd just follow my suggestions? At this point, you're making the conscious decision not to adapt to the situation at hand.emeraldbay wrote: »
I think you missed my entire point. You can still get the difficulty you so desperately desire. All you have to do is get some underleveled armor and gear. Is that so hard that you just can't stand the thought of it, or are you simply too high and mighty to be bothered with the concept of compromise?emeraldbay wrote: »
*snip*Maximis_ESO wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?
So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.
Why should players who may or may not have worked harder then you, suddenly need to limit themselves so "casuals" can have easier content? That seems kinda selfish to me. You can play the way you want while so many others can't play how they want.
@emeraldbay
How is it selfish? It is equally selfish for you to want it "your" way... don't you think? Seems like it is hypocritical if you ask me.....
Look at it this way alright. It can go 2 ways
1 "good players" can weaken themselves so "weaker" players can have fun even though they worked really hard to get what they have.
2 "weaker" players can practice and get better so "good" players can have fun
The way I see it is if the good players weaken themselves they won't ever have any fun. Where if the weak players learn and get better eventually everyone can have fun.
@Maximis_ESOSo, are "good" players only able to have fun if they're using their super amazing awesome Legendary armor with all gold enchantments and purple recipes and the best potions ever?
Think of a difficulty setting in a single-player game. What exactly does it do?
While some games will go deeper than others (changing enemy AI, moving enemies to different areas), they will all change two basic things: damage and health.
In hard mode, enemies will do more damage and have more health than in easy mode. This is the most basic incarnation of the "difficulty setting".
Now, we "weaker" players can do nothing to make the enemies deal less damage and have less overall health. We're stuck on hard mode when we want to play on easy.
But you "good" players can easily make it so that the enemies deal more damage to you specifically, and make it so that you deal less damage (replicating their increase in health), without affecting other players.
And considering that the bulk of the player base is made up of casual Elder Scrolls fans and weekend gamers, the overall best choice would be to flip the game into easy mode so that hardcore "good" players can have the choice to make it harder on their own. Realize that "choice" is the key word here, and if you do not make the choice, it's your own fault. It does not matter if you feel that you shouldn't have to. Your needs are no more or less valid than ours- it just so happens that you can get what you want easier than we can, so Zenimax decided to try and make us both happy.
Should they have done that? It's debatable whether they should or not, and the answer varies from person to person. The important thing is learning to live with the changes they're making.
Perhaps, instead of yelling at us to "adapt", you should take a bit of your own advice. Go L2P.
How did zenimax try and make both happy? All I see is their caving in to what you guys want rather then what we both want. I am a huge elder scrolls fan so I know what type of difficulty slider they have. I would be fine with having some sort of difficulty slider in place for these types of situations. How does ZOS handle it for eso? Well they nerf VR and don't even add a difficulty slider into the game. I am nowhere near the best player, but I still love having a challenge. I get better by practicing something you don't know the concept of.
@emeraldbay
Like I said before why should players who worked just as or harder then you have to weaken themselves for a challenge? That does not sound fair at all and as much as this is thrown around it stops people from playing their way.
@emeraldbay
I'm beginning to wonder if you're actually this stubborn or if you just haven't paid attention to the things I'm telling you.Edited by emeraldbay on July 5, 2014 7:16AM-T h e - A l d m e r i - I n i t i a t i v e-— O r d e r - o f - t h e - R a v y n —0 -
Maximis_ESO✭✭✭✭I am curious. Those you met in Graglorn, are they a group of lets say vet 8?
Or is it a vet 2 who tries to solo?
Most of them Vet 8-12 actually..... seems to be the ranks I encounter most in Craglorn. One particularly said he would never do it again.... he had 15 days played time and it was his first character it reach VR12 which is a lot of play time I think. A bit excessive to some.0 -
Maximis_ESO✭✭✭✭emeraldbay wrote: »
I think you missed my entire point. You can still get the difficulty you so desperately desire. All you have to do is get some underleveled armor and gear. Is that so hard that you just can't stand the thought of it, or are you simply too high and mighty to be bothered with the concept of compromise?emeraldbay wrote: »
*snip*Maximis_ESO wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?
So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.
Why should players who may or may not have worked harder then you, suddenly need to limit themselves so "casuals" can have easier content? That seems kinda selfish to me. You can play the way you want while so many others can't play how they want.
@emeraldbay
How is it selfish? It is equally selfish for you to want it "your" way... don't you think? Seems like it is hypocritical if you ask me.....
Look at it this way alright. It can go 2 ways
1 "good players" can weaken themselves so "weaker" players can have fun even though they worked really hard to get what they have.
2 "weaker" players can practice and get better so "good" players can have fun
The way I see it is if the good players weaken themselves they won't ever have any fun. Where if the weak players learn and get better eventually everyone can have fun.
@Maximis_ESOSo, are "good" players only able to have fun if they're using their super amazing awesome Legendary armor with all gold enchantments and purple recipes and the best potions ever?
Think of a difficulty setting in a single-player game. What exactly does it do?
While some games will go deeper than others (changing enemy AI, moving enemies to different areas), they will all change two basic things: damage and health.
In hard mode, enemies will do more damage and have more health than in easy mode. This is the most basic incarnation of the "difficulty setting".
Now, we "weaker" players can do nothing to make the enemies deal less damage and have less overall health. We're stuck on hard mode when we want to play on easy.
But you "good" players can easily make it so that the enemies deal more damage to you specifically, and make it so that you deal less damage (replicating their increase in health), without affecting other players.
And considering that the bulk of the player base is made up of casual Elder Scrolls fans and weekend gamers, the overall best choice would be to flip the game into easy mode so that hardcore "good" players can have the choice to make it harder on their own. Realize that "choice" is the key word here, and if you do not make the choice, it's your own fault. It does not matter if you feel that you shouldn't have to. Your needs are no more or less valid than ours- it just so happens that you can get what you want easier than we can, so Zenimax decided to try and make us both happy.
Should they have done that? It's debatable whether they should or not, and the answer varies from person to person. The important thing is learning to live with the changes they're making.
Perhaps, instead of yelling at us to "adapt", you should take a bit of your own advice. Go L2P.
How did zenimax try and make both happy? All I see is their caving in to what you guys want rather then what we both want. I am a huge elder scrolls fan so I know what type of difficulty slider they have. I would be fine with having some sort of difficulty slider in place for these types of situations. How does ZOS handle it for eso? Well they nerf VR and don't even add a difficulty slider into the game. I am nowhere near the best player, but I still love having a challenge. I get better by practicing something you don't know the concept of.
@emeraldbay
Like I said before why should players who worked just as or harder then you have to weaken themselves for a challenge? That does not sound fair at all and as much as this is thrown around it stops people from playing their way.
@emeraldbay
Either way, a group will be unhappy, ZOS has to make a decision which group to make more or less happy, thus satisfying the largest portion of players. Most players aren't as good as you. Most players don't group with others and most players seem to play alone. Thus they need to cater some of the content towards them.0 -
brandon✭✭✭✭Maximis_ESO wrote: »@brandon I think that you are a better player than you give yourself credit for.... VR content is hard for most people, that is why most people quit in the early VR. ZOS never said they were making it a cake walk. They want to make it so that people can solo through it without dying every other pull. As it is right now you are almost forced to group if you are an average player and often times, practicing enough doesn't ever get a lot of people to be "better" from my experience playing MMO's for the last 15 years.
Either way, ZOS is doing what they think is best. If you go back and read forum posts it is pretty obvious that a huge majority were unhappy with the VR content.
Also, almost everyone I encountered in Craglorn was not happy about it and I know a lot of people that will never go through it again to level up another character because it was such a "drag".
The best thing we can do is sit and wait. If you read the post they mentioned other plans for VR, it might be possible it is more challenging things for you.
Well thank you same to you. Like I said in another thread 2 major complaints I saw about VR were.
1 That it goes against lore and
2 That you already did all the content on your chosen faction
Another thing I just thought of is that a major complaint was also the rewards were not what they should be given what you go through. I agree we won't know how this is really going to turn out till it get implemented. I however cannot stop feeling like ZOS is going to take it to the far.
Another point I would like to make is that either way, the players who thought VR was tough and the players who liked VR this mmo can't survive without both. Everything I've heard is that the subs for this game aren't great. If to many of either group leaves eso is done. Zenimax needs to be extremely careful how they do this or it could cost them big time.
@Maximis_ESO0 -
Ojustaboo✭✭✭✭✭
✭emeraldbay wrote: »
Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?
So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.
Getting so sick of this responce I'm simply copying and pasting my reply from the other identical coments
____________________
That suggestion has popped up numerous times in the past few hrs and I hate it.
I bought this game based in what Zenimax said, that included hard content. I should not be expected to play through level 1 to 49, learn skills, learn crafting, then not use half of it because Zenimax hasn't got the content to make use of it.
That suggestion is just as annoying to me and many others as you would find it if I said to you that if you find content too hard, respec or find a group.0 -
brandon✭✭✭✭emeraldbay wrote: »
Likewise, why should players who are already doing their best and failing have to put up with content that they can't complete just so that you can have a challenge that, mind you, you can still have if you'd just follow my suggestions? At this point, you're making the conscious decision not to adapt to the situation at hand.emeraldbay wrote: »
I think you missed my entire point. You can still get the difficulty you so desperately desire. All you have to do is get some underleveled armor and gear. Is that so hard that you just can't stand the thought of it, or are you simply too high and mighty to be bothered with the concept of compromise?emeraldbay wrote: »
*snip*Maximis_ESO wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?
So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.
Why should players who may or may not have worked harder then you, suddenly need to limit themselves so "casuals" can have easier content? That seems kinda selfish to me. You can play the way you want while so many others can't play how they want.
@emeraldbay
How is it selfish? It is equally selfish for you to want it "your" way... don't you think? Seems like it is hypocritical if you ask me.....
Look at it this way alright. It can go 2 ways
1 "good players" can weaken themselves so "weaker" players can have fun even though they worked really hard to get what they have.
2 "weaker" players can practice and get better so "good" players can have fun
The way I see it is if the good players weaken themselves they won't ever have any fun. Where if the weak players learn and get better eventually everyone can have fun.
@Maximis_ESOSo, are "good" players only able to have fun if they're using their super amazing awesome Legendary armor with all gold enchantments and purple recipes and the best potions ever?
Think of a difficulty setting in a single-player game. What exactly does it do?
While some games will go deeper than others (changing enemy AI, moving enemies to different areas), they will all change two basic things: damage and health.
In hard mode, enemies will do more damage and have more health than in easy mode. This is the most basic incarnation of the "difficulty setting".
Now, we "weaker" players can do nothing to make the enemies deal less damage and have less overall health. We're stuck on hard mode when we want to play on easy.
But you "good" players can easily make it so that the enemies deal more damage to you specifically, and make it so that you deal less damage (replicating their increase in health), without affecting other players.
And considering that the bulk of the player base is made up of casual Elder Scrolls fans and weekend gamers, the overall best choice would be to flip the game into easy mode so that hardcore "good" players can have the choice to make it harder on their own. Realize that "choice" is the key word here, and if you do not make the choice, it's your own fault. It does not matter if you feel that you shouldn't have to. Your needs are no more or less valid than ours- it just so happens that you can get what you want easier than we can, so Zenimax decided to try and make us both happy.
Should they have done that? It's debatable whether they should or not, and the answer varies from person to person. The important thing is learning to live with the changes they're making.
Perhaps, instead of yelling at us to "adapt", you should take a bit of your own advice. Go L2P.
How did zenimax try and make both happy? All I see is their caving in to what you guys want rather then what we both want. I am a huge elder scrolls fan so I know what type of difficulty slider they have. I would be fine with having some sort of difficulty slider in place for these types of situations. How does ZOS handle it for eso? Well they nerf VR and don't even add a difficulty slider into the game. I am nowhere near the best player, but I still love having a challenge. I get better by practicing something you don't know the concept of.
@emeraldbay
Like I said before why should players who worked just as or harder then you have to weaken themselves for a challenge? That does not sound fair at all and as much as this is thrown around it stops people from playing their way.
@emeraldbay
I'm beginning to wonder if you're actually this stubborn or if you just haven't paid attention to the things I'm telling you.
First of all playing the game I don't need to adapt because I'm great where I'm at. The adapt your talking about and the one I'm talking about are two different things. Once again that's why ZOS should have added a difficulty slider. How did they go about it though? Well they nerfed VR and didn't even add a way for people to make it harder without handicapping themselves. Face it ZOS doesn't know how to have a middle ground they go to the extreme with everything.
@emeraldbay0 -
brandon✭✭✭✭Maximis_ESO wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
I think you missed my entire point. You can still get the difficulty you so desperately desire. All you have to do is get some underleveled armor and gear. Is that so hard that you just can't stand the thought of it, or are you simply too high and mighty to be bothered with the concept of compromise?emeraldbay wrote: »
*snip*Maximis_ESO wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?
So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.
Why should players who may or may not have worked harder then you, suddenly need to limit themselves so "casuals" can have easier content? That seems kinda selfish to me. You can play the way you want while so many others can't play how they want.
@emeraldbay
How is it selfish? It is equally selfish for you to want it "your" way... don't you think? Seems like it is hypocritical if you ask me.....
Look at it this way alright. It can go 2 ways
1 "good players" can weaken themselves so "weaker" players can have fun even though they worked really hard to get what they have.
2 "weaker" players can practice and get better so "good" players can have fun
The way I see it is if the good players weaken themselves they won't ever have any fun. Where if the weak players learn and get better eventually everyone can have fun.
@Maximis_ESOSo, are "good" players only able to have fun if they're using their super amazing awesome Legendary armor with all gold enchantments and purple recipes and the best potions ever?
Think of a difficulty setting in a single-player game. What exactly does it do?
While some games will go deeper than others (changing enemy AI, moving enemies to different areas), they will all change two basic things: damage and health.
In hard mode, enemies will do more damage and have more health than in easy mode. This is the most basic incarnation of the "difficulty setting".
Now, we "weaker" players can do nothing to make the enemies deal less damage and have less overall health. We're stuck on hard mode when we want to play on easy.
But you "good" players can easily make it so that the enemies deal more damage to you specifically, and make it so that you deal less damage (replicating their increase in health), without affecting other players.
And considering that the bulk of the player base is made up of casual Elder Scrolls fans and weekend gamers, the overall best choice would be to flip the game into easy mode so that hardcore "good" players can have the choice to make it harder on their own. Realize that "choice" is the key word here, and if you do not make the choice, it's your own fault. It does not matter if you feel that you shouldn't have to. Your needs are no more or less valid than ours- it just so happens that you can get what you want easier than we can, so Zenimax decided to try and make us both happy.
Should they have done that? It's debatable whether they should or not, and the answer varies from person to person. The important thing is learning to live with the changes they're making.
Perhaps, instead of yelling at us to "adapt", you should take a bit of your own advice. Go L2P.
How did zenimax try and make both happy? All I see is their caving in to what you guys want rather then what we both want. I am a huge elder scrolls fan so I know what type of difficulty slider they have. I would be fine with having some sort of difficulty slider in place for these types of situations. How does ZOS handle it for eso? Well they nerf VR and don't even add a difficulty slider into the game. I am nowhere near the best player, but I still love having a challenge. I get better by practicing something you don't know the concept of.
@emeraldbay
Like I said before why should players who worked just as or harder then you have to weaken themselves for a challenge? That does not sound fair at all and as much as this is thrown around it stops people from playing their way.
@emeraldbay
Either way, a group will be unhappy, ZOS has to make a decision which group to make more or less happy, thus satisfying the largest portion of players. Most players aren't as good as you. Most players don't group with others and most players seem to play alone. Thus they need to cater some of the content towards them.
I'm one of those players who prefer to play alone. I'm just learning how to handle different circumstances. I find it weird that in an mmo most people don't group especially considering multiplayers in the name.
@Maximis_ESO0 -
emeraldbay✭✭✭✭✭
So, what you're saying is, "you should adapt to my level because I'm incapable of adapting to yours"?emeraldbay wrote: »
Likewise, why should players who are already doing their best and failing have to put up with content that they can't complete just so that you can have a challenge that, mind you, you can still have if you'd just follow my suggestions? At this point, you're making the conscious decision not to adapt to the situation at hand.emeraldbay wrote: »
I think you missed my entire point. You can still get the difficulty you so desperately desire. All you have to do is get some underleveled armor and gear. Is that so hard that you just can't stand the thought of it, or are you simply too high and mighty to be bothered with the concept of compromise?emeraldbay wrote: »
*snip*Maximis_ESO wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?
So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.
Why should players who may or may not have worked harder then you, suddenly need to limit themselves so "casuals" can have easier content? That seems kinda selfish to me. You can play the way you want while so many others can't play how they want.
@emeraldbay
How is it selfish? It is equally selfish for you to want it "your" way... don't you think? Seems like it is hypocritical if you ask me.....
Look at it this way alright. It can go 2 ways
1 "good players" can weaken themselves so "weaker" players can have fun even though they worked really hard to get what they have.
2 "weaker" players can practice and get better so "good" players can have fun
The way I see it is if the good players weaken themselves they won't ever have any fun. Where if the weak players learn and get better eventually everyone can have fun.
@Maximis_ESOSo, are "good" players only able to have fun if they're using their super amazing awesome Legendary armor with all gold enchantments and purple recipes and the best potions ever?
Think of a difficulty setting in a single-player game. What exactly does it do?
While some games will go deeper than others (changing enemy AI, moving enemies to different areas), they will all change two basic things: damage and health.
In hard mode, enemies will do more damage and have more health than in easy mode. This is the most basic incarnation of the "difficulty setting".
Now, we "weaker" players can do nothing to make the enemies deal less damage and have less overall health. We're stuck on hard mode when we want to play on easy.
But you "good" players can easily make it so that the enemies deal more damage to you specifically, and make it so that you deal less damage (replicating their increase in health), without affecting other players.
And considering that the bulk of the player base is made up of casual Elder Scrolls fans and weekend gamers, the overall best choice would be to flip the game into easy mode so that hardcore "good" players can have the choice to make it harder on their own. Realize that "choice" is the key word here, and if you do not make the choice, it's your own fault. It does not matter if you feel that you shouldn't have to. Your needs are no more or less valid than ours- it just so happens that you can get what you want easier than we can, so Zenimax decided to try and make us both happy.
Should they have done that? It's debatable whether they should or not, and the answer varies from person to person. The important thing is learning to live with the changes they're making.
Perhaps, instead of yelling at us to "adapt", you should take a bit of your own advice. Go L2P.
How did zenimax try and make both happy? All I see is their caving in to what you guys want rather then what we both want. I am a huge elder scrolls fan so I know what type of difficulty slider they have. I would be fine with having some sort of difficulty slider in place for these types of situations. How does ZOS handle it for eso? Well they nerf VR and don't even add a difficulty slider into the game. I am nowhere near the best player, but I still love having a challenge. I get better by practicing something you don't know the concept of.
@emeraldbay
Like I said before why should players who worked just as or harder then you have to weaken themselves for a challenge? That does not sound fair at all and as much as this is thrown around it stops people from playing their way.
@emeraldbay
I'm beginning to wonder if you're actually this stubborn or if you just haven't paid attention to the things I'm telling you.
First of all playing the game I don't need to adapt because I'm great where I'm at. The adapt your talking about and the one I'm talking about are two different things. Once again that's why ZOS should have added a difficulty slider. How did they go about it though? Well they nerfed VR and didn't even add a way for people to make it harder without handicapping themselves. Face it ZOS doesn't know how to have a middle ground they go to the extreme with everything.
@emeraldbay
[sarcasm]Seems fair.[/sarcasm]Edited by emeraldbay on July 5, 2014 7:33AM-T h e - A l d m e r i - I n i t i a t i v e-— O r d e r - o f - t h e - R a v y n —0 -
KariTR✭✭✭✭✭Maximis_ESO wrote: »wrlifeboil wrote: »Maximis_ESO wrote: »wrlifeboil wrote: »Don't count your chickens before they are hatched.
If they make the VR content more like levels 1-50 it will be very much more ES. In VR content you get 0 xp for exploration and little to no xp for killing, side quests etc. I think it will be better if they do what they say they will do.
Reducing the damage done by VR mobs and lowering the overall health of VR mobs by a few percent would make more sense. But I trust that ZOS will chose whichever option that will result in the greatest amount of bugs post-patch.
Yeah it would make sense, a 2 hand medium armor warrior doesn't stand much of a chance against 3 VR mobs.... it is VERY difficult. On top of that there is little incentive to explore because the reward is so terrible.... sounds like they may or may not work on fixing that.
Groups of three are an option in VR zones, not a necessity. But the mindset is typical of players who think paying a subscription means they should be allowed to survive all content in a game that is designed to cater to solo and group players.
Edit: I am also staggered that the 1000s of hours of work put in to create this wonderful environment for us to adventure in, isn't considered rewarding if we don't get experience points. It's like a world of nihilists on game forums, I swear.
This is what people get when they chase numbers instead of just enjoying the game. Still, if the change to VR content to make them more in line with the 1-50 zones leaves combat alone and adds in exp points for exploration etc. it will be the lesser of two evils, in my opinion.Edited by KariTR on July 5, 2014 7:42AM0 -
brandon✭✭✭✭emeraldbay wrote: »
So, what you're saying is, "you should adapt to my level because I'm incapable of adapting to yours"?emeraldbay wrote: »
Likewise, why should players who are already doing their best and failing have to put up with content that they can't complete just so that you can have a challenge that, mind you, you can still have if you'd just follow my suggestions? At this point, you're making the conscious decision not to adapt to the situation at hand.emeraldbay wrote: »
I think you missed my entire point. You can still get the difficulty you so desperately desire. All you have to do is get some underleveled armor and gear. Is that so hard that you just can't stand the thought of it, or are you simply too high and mighty to be bothered with the concept of compromise?emeraldbay wrote: »
*snip*Maximis_ESO wrote: »emeraldbay wrote: »
Want a bigger challenge? Use lower-level armor and weapons, weaker potions and food, or forego all of it entirely. Switch up your skill bar, pick up a new weapons skill line, there are so many things you can do to make things harder on yourself without making the casual players suffer.Yes, except what I wanted was to have content challenging enough to need a group to do. We already have SO many games available that are essentially solo level grinds. Do we really need another one?
So, maybe YOU can now play the way YOU want to. But I cannot.
Why should players who may or may not have worked harder then you, suddenly need to limit themselves so "casuals" can have easier content? That seems kinda selfish to me. You can play the way you want while so many others can't play how they want.
@emeraldbay
How is it selfish? It is equally selfish for you to want it "your" way... don't you think? Seems like it is hypocritical if you ask me.....
Look at it this way alright. It can go 2 ways
1 "good players" can weaken themselves so "weaker" players can have fun even though they worked really hard to get what they have.
2 "weaker" players can practice and get better so "good" players can have fun
The way I see it is if the good players weaken themselves they won't ever have any fun. Where if the weak players learn and get better eventually everyone can have fun.
@Maximis_ESOSo, are "good" players only able to have fun if they're using their super amazing awesome Legendary armor with all gold enchantments and purple recipes and the best potions ever?
Think of a difficulty setting in a single-player game. What exactly does it do?
While some games will go deeper than others (changing enemy AI, moving enemies to different areas), they will all change two basic things: damage and health.
In hard mode, enemies will do more damage and have more health than in easy mode. This is the most basic incarnation of the "difficulty setting".
Now, we "weaker" players can do nothing to make the enemies deal less damage and have less overall health. We're stuck on hard mode when we want to play on easy.
But you "good" players can easily make it so that the enemies deal more damage to you specifically, and make it so that you deal less damage (replicating their increase in health), without affecting other players.
And considering that the bulk of the player base is made up of casual Elder Scrolls fans and weekend gamers, the overall best choice would be to flip the game into easy mode so that hardcore "good" players can have the choice to make it harder on their own. Realize that "choice" is the key word here, and if you do not make the choice, it's your own fault. It does not matter if you feel that you shouldn't have to. Your needs are no more or less valid than ours- it just so happens that you can get what you want easier than we can, so Zenimax decided to try and make us both happy.
Should they have done that? It's debatable whether they should or not, and the answer varies from person to person. The important thing is learning to live with the changes they're making.
Perhaps, instead of yelling at us to "adapt", you should take a bit of your own advice. Go L2P.
How did zenimax try and make both happy? All I see is their caving in to what you guys want rather then what we both want. I am a huge elder scrolls fan so I know what type of difficulty slider they have. I would be fine with having some sort of difficulty slider in place for these types of situations. How does ZOS handle it for eso? Well they nerf VR and don't even add a difficulty slider into the game. I am nowhere near the best player, but I still love having a challenge. I get better by practicing something you don't know the concept of.
@emeraldbay
Like I said before why should players who worked just as or harder then you have to weaken themselves for a challenge? That does not sound fair at all and as much as this is thrown around it stops people from playing their way.
@emeraldbay
I'm beginning to wonder if you're actually this stubborn or if you just haven't paid attention to the things I'm telling you.
First of all playing the game I don't need to adapt because I'm great where I'm at. The adapt your talking about and the one I'm talking about are two different things. Once again that's why ZOS should have added a difficulty slider. How did they go about it though? Well they nerfed VR and didn't even add a way for people to make it harder without handicapping themselves. Face it ZOS doesn't know how to have a middle ground they go to the extreme with everything.
@emeraldbay
[sarcasm]Seems fair.[/sarcasm]
No that's not what I'm saying. I mentioned in my post that if ZOS added a difficulty slider to the game I would be fine with that. How is that in any way saying I want you to adapt to my lvl?
@emeraldbayEdited by brandon on July 5, 2014 7:38AM0 -
Phinix1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭emeraldbay wrote: »I'll just refer you over to my previous post.
Irony is fun.Edited by Phinix1 on July 5, 2014 7:44AM2