LonePirate wrote: »

Innocente wrote: »

My static duo playing partner and I were looking forward to the increased difficulty of the veteran zones, since we pretty much decimate everything in the core 1-50 content.

Your perceptions of what the game currently is and what it will be are way off base. Given how you are playing the game with a friend, the current Veteran content before any changes would have been easy for the two of you. The upcoming changes won't make a bit of difference to people who group. Except for the dolmens and some world bosses, Veteran zone quests and delves are a walk in the park right now for groups of two or more. Unless you are playing solo, you are not going to find a challenge in the current Veteran zones right now.

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Given how Innocente and his/her partner are playing the game, you know duoing, GROUPING up and watching each others back, looks to me that they are the EXACT target market for the higher levels in particular that TESO was advertised to for content that was designed to be played that way. o-0

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

Welcome to ESO, the single player MMO.

No SWTOR holds that title.

On the bright side, the guys at SOE are probably heaving a huge sigh of relief.

I honestly don't understand people complaining the game's vet areas being made a bit easier. One, you shouldn't feel less powerful at vet level than at 1-50 (I think they should have added more mobs instead of just upping their power level). Also, about to be on my third vet character, so it's not like I haven't played through the content well enough on my own previously.

But, the game has a balance issue. There are three pulls of normal mobs that are harder than bosses many times. But in the end, if it's so hard that players are hitting a wall, there is a problem. If you think it's too easy, you can always make the game harder on yourself for the challenge (No ultimates, no potions, no gear upgrades, etc), but those having trouble can't make it easier.

Personally, I don't think it's that players that have a problem with the change want it to be hard, they want to be able to say they didn't have a problem with content while listening to others talk about how hard it was.

And really, when players can just not do the vet zones and level by grinding in Craglorn in a huge group with no danger, why does it matter if the quests are more manageable?

Innocente wrote: »

While I certainly understand the hue and cry to make the faction veteran zones easier, I think it is a big mistake.

My static duo playing partner and I were looking forward to the increased difficulty of the veteran zones, since we pretty much decimate everything in the core 1-50 content. We will now have nothing to look forward to in ESO gameplay for a long time, if we last that long.

It is questionable as to whether we will stay on with ESO; this game is great as a single-player game. Not so great as a multiplayer game; and that is what we like to play.

I am sure lots of folks will be happy with the change (if they do not get mind numbingly bored from the easy-mode repetitive questing). To those folks, I wish you well.

Kind of sad. I suspect I know what my partner's response to this news is going to be.

This is completely wrong...... they never said they are nerfing it... they said they are bring it more in line with 1-50 content. This could mean that maybe you get XP from exploring!?

Anastasia wrote: »

EXCEPT...one wonders if alllll the players that WANT to play solo successfully in endgame content actually read the promo's on this game. TESO was very clearly promoted by descriptions of strong soloability in the early levels, followed by increased difficulty and encouraged-grouping for Vet content.

Why would players primarily interested in soloing their way through all content buy and sub to this game? And why is Zenimax changing this now, after attracting vet mmo players who specifically came here for the interesting, group-encouraged, challenging gameplay they could look forward to in higher levels????

Here's the catch: you don't spend > $200M into an AAA MMO, planning to have 350k subs. Because THOSE are the numbers for any mildly challenging / skilled player oriented MMO.
Either ZoS were totally WRONG at estimating the percentage of decent players they'd get out of the total OR they squared lied in our face, well knowing that aiming at millions of subs is incompatible with having a skilled players based MMO.
In either case, the $200M have been spent, so they need the "big masses" to pay back the investment so they'll crawl down to the worst, lowest denominator just to get any possible money back.
Also, don't forget this project has not been made with true "self" money but with debt (towards a fund) so they REALLY have to pay back and by certain deadlines.

apples to oranges folks. I just don't see the need for it now. The game is near unplayable for many people due to FPS and we still have broken quests, broken eq sets, broken skills, really bad balance issues...

While we are on the balance issues... Here is a solution to VR levels being too easy or too hard or solo vs. need to group.

If you want to go solo and make it easy go light armor/staff. Super easy mode, go light armor/staff/dk.

If you want a challenge and in certain situations require grouping, go stamina build and do not use a staff or use light armor.

Seriously, why change stuff when your game is broke? Fix the game then we can see about making additions. It is like your car engine light is on and it won't start and you decide to put in a new exhaust first and some fancy rims. WHY THE FRAK WOULD YOU PUT ON NEW RIMS IF THE CAR WON'T START?!

Cancel sub folks. Vote with your pocketbook. Even if you resub right before time runs out, seeing thousands cancel sub will tell them a message you just cannot due by raging/whining on the forums.

SFBryan18 wrote: »

Another thread was closed and directed here where a member told me I was referring to "cookie cutter" builds because I said some players will still complain because they built their character wrong.

Fact is, if I throw all my skill points into crafting, all my attributes in stamina, and then run around and try dropping magic spells, I am definitely doing something wrong. Choosing the right perks and skills to go with a good balance of attributes is part of character creation and some choices are going to be better than others.

This is a fact and has nothing to do with some "cookie cutter" cop out.

Yep but it's Zenimax's fault for how they sold the game. They implied you could choose whatever 5 random skills you like and be able to do all the content.

You know thats impossible, I know that's impossible but that is how it was sold.

Depending on the mobs I'm facing depends on which wespon I use and whether I need to change any skills. A lot of people do not expect to have to do this and many simply refuse to try.

At vet level you need to choose your skills carefully, I completely respeced and went from finding it impossible to loving it.

That said, I used to have a bow as my 2nd wespon and summoned on my first one. I had to stop summoning and switch the bow to a res staff, whether that was me not understanding my bow skills properly I don't know, but run of the mill vet content should be doable using whatever weapon or skill line you choose.

Obviously you will still need additional skills etc but it should be doable. I found it impossible using pets or a bow hence I completely changed my build. Sure some mobs/areas I might have found the bow useless or the pets a pain, but for the majority of it, they should still have been a viable option (along side other carefully chosen skills), but for me they weren't

I think certain skill lines needed balancing but nerfing the content is not the solution and I would be extremely surprised if this didnt cause more problems than it solves.

The problem isnt players complaining its hard at vet areas. The "problem" is all the rest who enjoy the game as it is.

I am curious. If not the majority of those who complain are lower then vet 8, who tries to solo in Graglorn.

I am NOT that good of a player, and in daggerfall I have no problem soloing.

Tweak Graglorn or whatever...fine! Keep the rest as is.

Ojustaboo wrote: »

Phantax wrote: »

Damn, all the nah-sayers jumped onto this quickly enough...lol

•Firstly ZOS did not say VR would become easy-mode, they said it would be 'easier' to level. They may bring the difficulty down by an amount that is almost unnoticeable ! They may do something we didn't expect?

•Secondly, the forums have been filled with posts for ages now by people complaining about VR difficulty. There have been very few (almost none) posts where people have loved the whole VR experience. We (the general ESO population) have been moaning at ZOS for ages to 'fix' VR and now when they do, a mindless bandwagon all start moaning and complaining about it.

Lets at least wait till Monday, see what ZOS actually do to VR and then we can judge if it's a good or bad thing ! Any MMO is a living/on-going entity, it takes time to get it right and balance things. ZOS obviously have something in mind, lets at least wait to see if it works !

While I don't disagree with your post as such, I don't thini it's as straight forward.

Happy players rarely post, I've only been posting non stop as I'm away from my PC, unhappy players are always very vocal.

It could be that while 2000 odd people say they find the current vet content too hard, for for every 2000 saying that, 10,000 have no problem with it.

So the complaints might not be the majority it seems it is, likewise it could be the majority thinking that and I might be in a minority not wanting it made easier.

While we do need to wait and see, Zenimax anounced plans and that will cause discussion.

Thing is, there's two logical scenarios

If they bring the difficulty down just a tiny bit (I suspect even if they bring it down a good fair bit) the vast majority of those pleased with the announcement will find themselves very disappointed

If they bring it down enough to please those players, chances are they will ruin it for many currently enjoying it.

I know decisions aren't made just on forum posts but I would be very surprised if the devs didn't read player responses to announcements. If no one had posted anything since the announcement I think that would probably bother the devs more.

They knew announcing it would cause this sort of debate, they could have waited 5 more days and announce it on patch day

For all we know they still haven't decided exactly how much to alter things and made the anouncement so that they could see what the community thinks.

Yes, it has to be a balancing act and trying to keep everybody happy is a task I don't envy them. I'd rather see little-and-often tweeks until the 'balance' feels right.
Personally I'm on the side that thinks VR questing was too hard, but that doesn't mean I want to see it become a /faceroll, it has to still be challenging.

Content is already too easy. Please increase difficulty.

xaraan wrote: »

I honestly don't understand people complaining the game's vet areas being made a bit easier. One, you shouldn't feel less powerful at vet level than at 1-50 (I think they should have added more mobs instead of just upping their power level). Also, about to be on my third vet character, so it's not like I haven't played through the content well enough on my own previously.

But, the game has a balance issue. There are three pulls of normal mobs that are harder than bosses many times. But in the end, if it's so hard that players are hitting a wall, there is a problem. If you think it's too easy, you can always make the game harder on yourself for the challenge (No ultimates, no potions, no gear upgrades, etc), but those having trouble can't make it easier.

Personally, I don't think it's that players that have a problem with the change want it to be hard,

And really, when players can just not do the vet zones and level by grinding in Craglorn in a huge group with no danger, why does it matter if the quests are more manageable?

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xaraan wrote: »

I honestly don't understand people complaining the game's vet areas being made a bit easier. One, you shouldn't feel less powerful at vet level than at 1-50 (I think they should have added more mobs instead of just upping their power level). Also, about to be on my third vet character, so it's not like I haven't played through the content well enough on my own previously.

But, the game has a balance issue. There are three pulls of normal mobs that are harder than bosses many times. But in the end, if it's so hard that players are hitting a wall, there is a problem. If you think it's too easy, you can always make the game harder on yourself for the challenge (No ultimates, no potions, no gear upgrades, etc), but those having trouble can't make it easier.

Personally, I don't think it's that players that have a problem with the change want it to be hard, they want to be able to say they didn't have a problem with content while listening to others talk about how hard it was.

And really, when players can just not do the vet zones and level by grinding in Craglorn in a huge group with no danger, why does it matter if the quests are more manageable?

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1.) "But, the game has a balance issue."

Yes, yes it does. But correcting/replacing the Stam/Magic ratio FIRST would go the farthest in balance along with continuing attention to base-class skills. NOT deleveling and thinning out the mobs in an ENTIRE piece of content/zone/area.
Instituting a larger bonus on e x p for those who GROUP or, making the loot a bit more interesting, or offering some sort of whole faction reward. There are lots of player suggestions and ideas that have been submitted which I hope will also be considered going forward. But I believe those should have been attended to first, before creating more headaches in content down the road by making the Vet+ areas 'easier'.

2.) "Personally, I don't think it's that players that have a problem with the change want it to be hard, they want to be able to say they didn't have a problem with content while listening to others talk about how hard it was. (

Really? (*Not pointed specifically at you xaraan).So the experienced players who are coming in here trying to share perspectives and offer suggestions should all be swiped with a blanket of:
"You're jelly cuz we are getting something cool and you aren't..."???????

How about from now on, individuals who post something you/they/anyone doesn't like get rebuttal posts on THEIR comments rather than including me as a blood sister of theirs.

There are wise, interesting, viable, fun, doable ideas being proffered that would provide a boon for higher levels solo'rs right now in many threads on these forums. I've only seen a very few "L2P - you're a loser" posts. There were also the same sorts of discussions occurring BEFORE yesterdays announcement of the incoming Vet+ nerf. If you are offended by someone who is being infantile, get into their shizz, not mine or the next guy who is trying to have his ideas be included in this discussion.

I've friends who absolutely love soloing. I know there is a desire for it by some of the population and that is important to consider, though if that were my preferred style of playing an mmo I def would not have bought this particular game, since the forward promo's about it were clear that early levels would be more solo friendly and later content would be most viable when duoing, trioing or full on grouping.

My urgent consideration is to put the responsibility of CREATING what is ADDITIONALLY now wanted by those players ON ZENI's plate. This isn't within our power - aside from input, we have no direct line of authority.

TLDR: Many players who participate in these forums love this game and want the best going forward and are trying to give tips and suggestions to help other people. No one is going to be totally hunky-dory with every single change/adjustment/deletion/addition, but inclusion in voices and opinions should continue to be important to all of us so we can communicate with ZOS.

If you get insulted by someone's post, give them some shizz back to THAT person, don't blame me for all the world's sputnum. This ain't no 'kumbaya' circle, but presumably MOST of us have the same goal: to continue to get enjoyment from a very cool MMO we've waited years on and which we want to continue to support if that is possible.

My ideas, are, of course, some of the best...but you are perfectly free to refuse to concur with that!

Good journeys~

Alphashado wrote: »

AreoHotah wrote: »

These god damn casuals are destroyng every game...

Yes, you have said that exact same thing in several threads. Just for the sake of logic... has it ever occurred to you that if there was money to be made by developing a game with nothing but hardcore combat that someone would have done it by now?

While arguably true, if Zenimax had simply wanted to go just for the biggest return, they would simply have copied the same old EQ/WOW format.

They said from the start that they weren't following the crowd, the crowd currently caters mainly for casual.

I think many people underestimate the amount of people that will not like end contend being dumbed down, I also think most of those thinking they will now like the end content, still wont.
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