You see? See how many "defenders" are now starting to get annoyed.

ShedsHisTail · July 2014

I'm a "Defender" who is getting annoyed...
But I don't think it's for the reasons you think it is.

steveb16_ESO46 · July 2014

DeLindsay wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

I am not annoyed yet. I am still patiently waiting for improvements. I understand great things happen over time. Rome wasn't built in a day and all that.

^ This.

Yet we don't have to pay to watch it be built and that's the problem with releasing early beta code and untested patches. People move on, taking their money with them and will be very hard to win back if at some point there's something worth coming back to.

SFBryan18 · July 2014

Another redundant thread without any specific links or proof, intended for members to sob over unspecified things. And if there were specific things to complain about, doesn't that belong in the support section?

Captain_Scheisse · July 2014

as a proof, i quit my subscription.. need more proof?

Evergnar · July 2014

The worlds largest ball of string wasn't built in a day either. Just saying.

mutharex · July 2014

Sometimes I wonder if I play the same game as the others.

jelliedsoup · July 2014

williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Played since morrowind and still enjoying it. I've had to adapt to the class system, don't like the fps in cyrodil, the vr levels can be a grind. Ithink those who thought that it would be easy to translate es into an mmo are oversimplifying what it will take.

Squeaky wheels don't help if they aren't relecting the majority.

Wheels aren't the majority of a car, you realize, but when they squeak, something is definitely wrong and needs fixing.

In this metaphor are cars the people or the game?

jelliedsoup · July 2014

Gix wrote: »

I love how some of the folks that complain has this "you hate it but you just haven't realized it yet; I know the real truth" attitude.

"I used to defend the game but now I know the truth - you too will eventually see the truth"

uhuh?

The other spectrum isn't any better, either.

"Oh no! People aren't seeing the fun in the game! If I don't stop all this negativity, the thing I love will slowly die!"

Moral of the story. Don't be an idiot and don't be on either end of the spectrum. Your experience and expectations is not the same as everyone else.

Attitudes like this don't belong on a forum.

Shagreth · July 2014

I've decided to stick around, take things slowly, provide feedback and never, ever take a ride on the hyperbole train. In my eyes, that train has 'destination nowhere' written all over.

It's only been three months, now, if you firmly believe that the game is not going to improve and that all hope is lost, then please, consider leaving already. The only thing you are doing here is reinforce the idea that the game, community, fan sites have all kicked the bucket. I don't think we need those that like carrying signs bearing messages such as "CAN'T YOU SEE, THE END IS NIGH, IT IS ALL FOR NAUGHT!".

crislevin · July 2014

PF1901 wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Ahem, a brief sampling of your previous topics. Feel free to stop me when we get to the "defender" portion:

- Is ZOS gonna fix veteran ranks for the next update?
- Did you left [sic] VR because it is boring, beause it is difficult,or both??
- Did you imagine TESO going this bad 3 months later?
- Do you feel like a betatester [sic] in ESO?

I can go on if you like.

I do feel like a betatester, consider they keeps making significant changes to skills, graphic, and breaking things in the process.

Is this your first mmo? Sure I understand / agree with part of the criticism but other than that? Seems to me what I read and what the people lament about on this forum is just like any other game forum. Again don't get me wrong, zeni surely could / should handle certain aspects / set priorities (hello fps issue) (much) differently. But still - don't make things look bleaker than they actually are.
By the way dwelling around in forums often lessens the joy of actual gameplay

yes this is my first mmo, and yes this will be my last. I don't play mmo. I wouldn't not play this game if not for the TES part of it.

i do wonder however, how many % of ESO play base regularly play mmos?

Mablung · July 2014

crislevin wrote: »

yes this is my first mmo, and yes this will be my last. I don't play mmo. I wouldn't not play this game if not for the TES part of it.

i do wonder however, how many % of ESO play base regularly play mmos?

This is not a dig at you but I feel that this is a big part of the problem for this community. I too wonder at the % of TES fans have never played an MMO before. The expectations and playstyle of a TES gamer is completely different from that of a MMO gamer.

TES gamers are more interested in the single player, story driven aspect of the game. Whereas the MMO player sees questing as a means to an end. TES gamers understand that the story has an end and that is the endgame. While a MMO gamer see endgame as content provided to repeat.

TES gamers see the end of the story as the reward and MMO gamers see endgame content as the means to supply a virtual material reward.

The two ideals or playstyles are not meshing well in this game.

BaddLarry · July 2014

I've been playing since it started and I'm still level 34 on my main character. I haven't seen any of the problems everyone else has because I'm not rushing through content. I play every other day for maybe three hours. I might get in 5 on the weekend. I've never been to Cyrodil and they've nerfed every aspect of the game well before I even saw how it worked previously. I'm sure by the time I reach VR levels all this stuff everyone's complaining about will be repaired. Maybe everyone should slow down a bit and they might enjoy it more.

crislevin · July 2014

Mablung wrote: »

crislevin wrote: »

yes this is my first mmo, and yes this will be my last. I don't play mmo. I wouldn't not play this game if not for the TES part of it.

i do wonder however, how many % of ESO play base regularly play mmos?

This is not a dig at you but I feel that this is a big part of the problem for this community. I too wonder at the % of TES fans have never played an MMO before. The expectations and playstyle of a TES gamer is completely different from that of a MMO gamer.

TES gamers are more interested in the single player, story driven aspect of the game. Whereas the MMO player sees questing as a means to an end. TES gamers understand that the story has an end and that is the endgame. While a MMO gamer see endgame as content provided to repeat.

TES gamers see the end of the story as the reward and MMO gamers see endgame content as the means to supply a virtual material reward.

The two ideals or playstyles are not meshing well in this game.

I sure agree with your sentiment and reasoning.

The sad fact is, if ESO really depends on the both types of players, they need to serve both well. Its not really useful to say "other MMO this or that", because that doesn't solve the problem for a large portion of its player base.

ESO has a very expensive pricing mode, thats something I worried in the very beginning. Now it seems technically, they are not very well prepared. The new content, which they touted as the justification of the pricing mode, is ill-coded.

I think they should re-consider the pricing mode, slow down the "new content", and focus on game optimization.

There are enough content for solo and pvp players to enjoy at the moment, the "new content" of update 2 was almost completely unnecessary and degrade the performance significantly. This type of mistakes cannot be repeated.

Mablung · July 2014

@crislevin‌ I agree. ZOS seems to be caught between the hammer and the anvil with these two sides and trying to please both is an unachievable goal.

I am of the camp that wants the game in its current state to remain as is until it is fully optimized and fixed. I do believe they have good intentions with the speed at which they attempt to patch but that is counterproductive to quality and I just hope that whatever they have planned for the future does not further throw the game into turmoil and alienate more players.

Swordguy · July 2014

If you are going to sleep at night with a tear-soaked pillow because a video game upsets you, than I think you are the truest example of injustice to humanity. I don't understand how the world can be so cruel, to upset anyone to this degree.

/end xtremely obvious sarcasm

necrolineage · July 2014

RazielSR wrote: »

I recommend sending a letter to Bethesda, I did it a while ago and will probably do it again, suggesting that the Elder Scrolls Brand Manager at Bethesda check out these forums, maybe hop in the game, and then call up their counterpart at ZOS and ask what the hell is going on and why they are ruining the equity in TES IP.

I think too it's the best thing to do. When Bethesda get hundred of those complains they gonna react for the good of everybody. Something goes really wrong in Zenimax and nothing is done to restore confidence.

SFBryan18 · July 2014

LoL, and some people in the world don't even have electricity.

jelliedsoup · July 2014

SFBryan18 wrote: »

Cruel? LoL. And some people in the world don't have electricity.

They should be thankful. They don't have to put up with the low fps.

Blackwidow · July 2014

@Mablung and @crislevin‌ They could have made ESO both like a single player TES game and have it be a MMO.

One of the main ways to do this is put in a ton of options to let the player choose how he wants to play.

Also, don't leave out important features that both MMOs and TES has that players love.

Completely open explorable world.
Underwater swimming.
Dueling.
Reverse questing. (you can actually do the quest before you even pick it up, like Skyrim) Example: I find the Sword of Erik. If i ever find Erik, he will give me the quest and i can say, "here it is!"
No class system
Housing
A law system
A ton of GUI options.

Just to list a few.

Mablung · July 2014

Blackwidow wrote: »

@Mablung and @crislevin‌ They could have made ESO both like a single player TES game and have it be a MMO.

One of the main ways to do this is put in a ton of options to let the player choose how he wants to play.

Also, don't leave out important features that both MMOs and TES has that players love.
Completely open explorable world.

Underwater swimming.

Dueling.

Reverse questing. (you can actually do the quest before you even pick it up, like Skyrim) Example: I find the Sword of Erik. If i ever find Erik, he will give me the quest and i can say, "here it is!"

No class system

Housing

A law system

A ton of GUI options.

Just to list a few.

Completely agree. I wanted to start a post about the key features left out of this MMO that would have given it a TES feel. The game seems to have obvously been rushed and I can only hope that in the near future those things you have listed come sooner rather than later.

As it stands, for me, outside of the story and beautiful graphics it does not feel like a TES title and with VR and no rewards for the work/risk, does not feel like an MMO.

Swordguy · July 2014

SFBryan18 wrote: »

LoL, and some p

jelliedsoup wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

Cruel? LoL. And some people in the world don't have electricity.

They should be thankful. They don't have to put up with the low fps.

totally. some people in the world are at risk of dying any day of the week from a thousand different causes. They are lucky they don't have to experience the magnanimous betrayal of Zenimax Online Studios, or the heart breaking sorrow of a CTD. how unlucky we are to be born with such burden.

/sarcasm on

SFBryan18 · July 2014

jelliedsoup wrote: »

SFBryan18 wrote: »

Cruel? LoL. And some people in the world don't have electricity.

They should be thankful. They don't have to put up with the low fps.

IKR. They're always whining and crying about being hungry, or having diseases, but they have no idea what us PC gamers have to deal with.

Loco_Mofo · July 2014

Ahhh finally, been waiting for the staunch defenders to finally hit VR!

Swordguy · July 2014

Loco_Mofo wrote: »

Ahhh finally, been waiting for the staunch defenders to finally hit VR!

the griping VR quit, and then come back to troll the disgruntled VR who beg the defender newbs to see reason. its a vicious cycle I tell ya.

Junipus · July 2014

Perspective is a wonderful thing.

Just because someone has things worse isn't really a reason for everyone better off to never complain. If everyone adhered to a no complaining policy when there were others worse off in the world then YouTube comments would be nothing but sugary motivation quotes.

Cervanteseric85ub17_ESO · July 2014

Crisscross wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

I'm afraid this could hurt TES reputation. I can't understand how the devs can live with this. It's mad just to apply a patch that destroy the few things that were ok and just add more and more bugs. How can this be real? Yes it is.

The FEW things that were ok?!? The game is, like 98% OK!

I mean, go and take a tour through all the zones. Go ahead. Travel from the island of Stros'Mkai, through Bethnik, Glenumbra, Stormhaven, Rivenspire, Alik'r desert, and and and... Auridon... Reaper's March... Stonefalls... Rift...

It's a beautiful ride. Do that, and then tell me with a straight face that more than 2% of the things you saw were broken.

Templars and NBs were broken since day 1 and are just now getting fixed. That's 50% of the classes broken.

Stamina builds are broken. Every player has 3 class trees, 2 staff trees, and 2 guild trees that use magicka (7 magicka trees), and 4 stamina weapons, and 1 guild tree that uses stamina (5 stamina trees). Not gonna count WW/vamp since not every player goes there, and we can leave out the armor tree ultimates for simplicity. That's 41% of the trees broken.

PVP has been shoddy, with lag, disconnects, and FPS troubles running rampant. That's one whole gameplay aspect, and roughly 20% of the playable map, shoddy at best and broken at worst.

Veteran zones have gotten a great deal of criticism for its design. Many players have opted to ignore them entirely in favor of Craglorn, or gasp, quitting the game. Veteran rank 1-10 is generally the equivalent of level 51-150. That's 66% of the levelling content being ignored or scorned by a large number of players.

Add in the quest bugs we've all seen in the questing zones you've mentioned, add in the bank wipe bug, the botting and the XP exploits, the bugged dungeons and their questionable reward system, the PVP bugs such as oil flowing up a wall, the guild store bugs and all the rest that we've seen during the course of the game's lifespan... Do all that, and then tell me with a straight face that only 2% of the game is broken.

To say something is broken implies it does not work at all, last time I checked NB and Templars were functioning in pve and pvp, pvp and pve with both classes daily, and last time I checked sword and board, bows are all viable in pve and pvp. Just because you don't agree with the veteran content doesn't mean it's broken, I been leveling through the veteran content no problem. Is the game perfect, of course not....is the game broken ? Most definitely is not...so all these people saying the game Is doomed are just full it....mmos that have far less then TESO are still functioning just fine. If you are always looking at the glass as half full you will only ever see the game in a negative light. For ever post and nay sayer on here there is a equal amount if not more people who believe the opposite, human nature compels us to be vocal when we are unhappy but the same can not be said for those that are content with the game

BrassRazoo · July 2014

I'm a defender of not being a whinger and yes I'm annoyed.
I'm annoyed at all the whinging so I generally just post anything that comes into my head just the be as annoying as the whingers defending the whinging that I'm defending against being.
Then again, if I did become a whinger I'd defend the whinging against the defenders of not becoming a whinger.

williamburr2001b14_ESO · July 2014

Gix wrote: »

I love how some of the folks that complain has this "you hate it but you just haven't realized it yet; I know the real truth" attitude.

"I used to defend the game but now I know the truth - you too will eventually see the truth"

uhuh?

The other spectrum isn't any better, either.

"Oh no! People aren't seeing the fun in the game! If I don't stop all this negativity, the thing I love will slowly die!"

Moral of the story. Don't be an idiot and don't be on either end of the spectrum. Your experience and expectations is not the same as everyone else.

Yeah literally nobody has said any of those things.

You are swinging your fists at ghosts there, champ. Nobody else can hear the voices in your head.

williamburr2001b14_ESO · July 2014

jelliedsoup wrote: »

williamburr2001b14_ESO wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Played since morrowind and still enjoying it. I've had to adapt to the class system, don't like the fps in cyrodil, the vr levels can be a grind. Ithink those who thought that it would be easy to translate es into an mmo are oversimplifying what it will take.

Squeaky wheels don't help if they aren't relecting the majority.

Wheels aren't the majority of a car, you realize, but when they squeak, something is definitely wrong and needs fixing.

In this metaphor are cars the people or the game?

It's not a metaphor. Cars are things that have wheels.

I don't know what "relecting" is, or how wheels can do it to a majority, so that post is about wheels.

Cervanteseric85ub17_ESO · July 2014

steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

I am not annoyed yet. I am still patiently waiting for improvements. I understand great things happen over time. Rome wasn't built in a day and all that.

^ This.

Yet we don't have to pay to watch it be built and that's the problem with releasing early beta code and untested patches. People move on, taking their money with them and will be very hard to win back if at some point there's something worth coming back to.

So your saying all the materials and labor used to build Rome was free ? All those people were only paid when they delivered a 100 perfect city....? Even games that are not mmos are released with bugs.