You see? See how many "defenders" are now starting to get annoyed.

Rodario · July 2014

I'm still immensely enjoying the game and don't seem to be encountering the majority of issues complained about on these here forums.

badmojo · July 2014

Yes, yes, it's doomed, we know.

Can I has your stuff?

NerfEverything · July 2014

Mortosk wrote: »

Perphection wrote: »

I've noticed this as well. People seem to be coming to their senses and finding their voice.

I found my voice when they nerfed the GCD on puncturing strikes. It was a completely moronic nerf out of the blue that added 2 seconds to every attack with it. It was so obvious that no one even bothered to test it before implementing it on live servers that it really concerned me about the state of the game.

And there were people even defending this on the forums. I was livid over that. Hadn't even really posted that much on the forums before that.

This was the big red flag for me. At this point, I realized Zen does not test patches correctly before pushing them live, they leave out major changes from the patch notes, and they have absolutely no idea how to balance classes in an MMO.

I guess there were other red flags earlier.

First one was that the "patcher" does not handle multiple connections. It is basically a stripped down web browser that only displays one page.

Then you had the batswarm exploit that was left in for weeks when it should have been hotfixed within hours.

Then the hireling mail exploit that existed for weeks instead of getting hotfixed.

And the item dupe exploit that existed for weeks without getting hotfixed.

Oh and the fact that during the entire development process, not one person stopped and said "how are we going to deal with bots?" Since every MMO released in the past 15 years has had to deal with bots. I don't know if it was stupidity or just laziness. Probably the former, since every other MMO has already figured out how to deal with bots, Zen just needed to copy any one of them.

And of course the fact that there is no client-side cheat detection, and server-side does not validate things like movement, positions, or resources. So you end up with teleporting, unkillable, infinite magika, undetectable hackers.

Basically every MMO part of this game they got completely wrong. For a single player RPG it isn't bad though.

sk8ingeckoub17_ESO · July 2014

I honestly don't see why you all are so insanely overbearing when it comes to the patch schedule. we seriously have updates and hot fixes more regularly then any other game, the devs have been fantastic responding to these forums, and honestly i tried leaving since launch and ended up back here.

The game is honest to goodness just a fun game to play. For once there is a game that delivered all that I truly wanted in a game. Massive open world pvp (cyro), a pve game that didn't totally suck (love the quests for once and i usually abhor questing) and a fairly open to my interpretation spec path that gives meaningful choices for each point i spend.

Granted things need work... END builds need a few more tweaks, the lag in cyro can be fixed, and the VR levels can be less grindy for those that choose grinding over questing. But overall I truly am having a blast here, and if i had any complaint it would be at myself for going AD as i am now re-rolling so i can be the lesser force in cyro. (thought i was picking the equivelant of daoc hibs and ended up the force that feels more like the albs)

Also if you all cannot see the great strives that have happened and are happening to fix things on a monthly basis i dunno what to say. Blinders on and full speed to whatever other game you play because in all honesty for a new game i have seen a ton of tweaks and adjustments. The only thing is ZOS is actually doing the tweeks in small amounts instead of bringing out the massive nerf hammer we have seen in mmo's of the past. kinda ironic that in every mmo i have played to date people whine that they go overboard on fixes / nerfs but when a dev team finnaly does small changes instead people whine just as loud if not more so...

Honestly i don't think no matter what ZOS does it will ever be the right decision to many of you posting here. The game needs work but i am actually a fan of the small nerfs/buffs and a over time adjustment then a constant swing back and forth. And i love how fast they have started fixing cyro lag. (day of patch went down to 5fps, day or two later im back up to about 50-60)

DeLindsay · July 2014

Tabbycat wrote: »

I am not annoyed yet. I am still patiently waiting for improvements. I understand great things happen over time. Rome wasn't built in a day and all that.

^ This.

NerfEverything · July 2014

DeLindsay wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

I am not annoyed yet. I am still patiently waiting for improvements. I understand great things happen over time. Rome wasn't built in a day and all that.

^ This.

Rome wasn't charging it's citizens $15 a month to live in the gutters. They were out conquering other civilizations, taking their wealth, and using it to build their empire (and pay and feed their soldiers)....just sayin

jelliedsoup · July 2014

Played since morrowind and still enjoying it. I've had to adapt to the class system, don't like the fps in cyrodil, the vr levels can be a grind. Ithink those who thought that it would be easy to translate es into an mmo are oversimplifying what it will take.

Squeaky wheels don't help if they aren't relecting the majority.

DeLindsay · July 2014

NerfEverything wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

I am not annoyed yet. I am still patiently waiting for improvements. I understand great things happen over time. Rome wasn't built in a day and all that.

^ This.

Rome wasn't charging it's citizens $15 a month to live in the gutters. They were out conquering other civilizations, taking their wealth, and using it to build their empire (and pay and feed their soldiers)....just sayin

You kidding with that analogy? Rome had a HUGE tax rate. Rome went bankrupt with their merciless expansion and lavish buildings.

Huckdabuck · July 2014

ferzalrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

I am not annoyed yet. I am still patiently waiting for improvements. I understand great things happen over time. Rome wasn't built in a day and all that.

But Rome burned in less than a week.

It's a great metaphor for this game. All I want to know is... who's fiddling?

^ This!

poodlemasterb16_ESO · July 2014

I love it. So serious and in pain as well.

The game is a hoot. I'll be playing it for years, my base just gets stronger and stronger.

Took one of my 4 fighters out last night and put in 3 hours or so getting her the Bat Swarm ultimate and playing with it. Just fun for the Red Witch, about 4 levels down from the pack, and a rewarding evening. Very powerful fragile build. She seldom dies if I am on the ball.

One of 4 fighters and not the most advanced.

I think a lot of you are burned out from overdoing it. Power leveling and all that just gets you there. I'm here for the journey, and it's a lot of fun.

Blackwidow · July 2014

Yakidafi wrote: »

@Blackwidow‌

Blackwidow wrote: »

There will be people 9 months from now saying, "It's only been a year. Give ESO a chance to fix stuff!"

True story.

9 months from now players will still write on the forum and wonder why they play it.

True story.

That has happened from day 1.

Mablung · July 2014

DeLindsay wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

I am not annoyed yet. I am still patiently waiting for improvements. I understand great things happen over time. Rome wasn't built in a day and all that.

^ This.

Rome wasn't charging it's citizens $15 a month to live in the gutters. They were out conquering other civilizations, taking their wealth, and using it to build their empire (and pay and feed their soldiers)....just sayin

You kidding with that analogy? Rome had a HUGE tax rate. Rome went bankrupt with their merciless expansion and lavish buildings.

The Roman Empire lasted for almost 700 years. I am sure they had financial issues like any other civilization but to say they went bankrupt to counter an argument is pushing it.

LrdRahvin · July 2014

DeLindsay wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

DeLindsay wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

I am not annoyed yet. I am still patiently waiting for improvements. I understand great things happen over time. Rome wasn't built in a day and all that.

^ This.

Rome wasn't charging it's citizens $15 a month to live in the gutters. They were out conquering other civilizations, taking their wealth, and using it to build their empire (and pay and feed their soldiers)....just sayin

You kidding with that analogy? Rome had a HUGE tax rate. Rome went bankrupt with their merciless expansion and lavish buildings.

Right....constant conflict with the numerous "barbarian" tribes had nothing to do with it...Let's see Celts sacked Rome under Brennus...much later various of the "goth" tribes- most notably the Visigoths- made things virtually untenable, in addition to taking the city again. Internal corruption and power struggles...Increasing power in the east centered on Constaninople (later to become the Byzantine Empire after the Empire in the west truly fell...none of these things had anything to do with the fall of the Roman Empire...it was high taxes...

Faux news called...they want to offer you a job.

DeLindsay · July 2014

LrdRahvinb14a_ESO wrote: »

Right....constant conflict with the numerous "barbarian" tribes had nothing to do with it...Let's see Celts sacked Rome under Brennus...much later various of the "goth" tribes- most notably the Visigoths- made things virtually untenable, in addition to taking the city again. Internal corruption and power struggles...Increasing power in the east centered on Constaninople (later to become the Byzantine Empire after the Empire in the west truly fell...none of these things had anything to do with the fall of the Roman Empire...it was high taxes...

Faux news called...they want to offer you a job.

I'm sorry that you misread my comment. No where did I say that high taxes is what caused Rome to fall. It's well documented that the increasingly high tax rate under various emperors was an attempt to KEEP Rome from failing under it's own weight (expansion, lavish lifestyles). My comment was in reference to another saying "and Rome didn't charge it's citizens $15/mo to live in the gutter" that Rome had a massive tax rate.

Mud_Puppy · July 2014

RazielSR wrote: »

We were not trolls. With "we" I mean people complaining here while others were calling us with names. Now I'm reading a lot of topics here, and inside there are a lot of people posging and saying they defended the game from the beginning and spent a lof money in the game. Now they feel "betrayed" just like me or others that saw what was coming.

Yes I am one of these.
I have been defending the game to the teeth in alot of issues.

However a few things that are not fixed are impossible to let go.

Bugged Cadwell quests (Several of my friends have this) that literally STOP you from continuing the VR zones. Happens for both silver and gold. Random as far as I can tell. Either way it should have been dealt with immediately.

The notorious 301 error. How this still goes on is beyond me. Thinking it's okay to make people wait for a server reset just to play is insulting.

Not reversing the latest patch? If it takes more than 2 days to get the right hotfix out then the patch should be reversed for the time being. Seriously don't know why it hasn't.

Mud_Puppy · July 2014

SC0TY999 wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

Ah, well I haven't done any PVP because I get random patches of lag, which combined with playing across the atlantic would make it a tad unenjoyable, but when the EU gets the server, then I'll do PVP.

Sorry to break the news to you but moving the server to EU isn't going to help! NA are experiencing all the performance issues that EU is.

And that server is on their doorstep!

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if all the servers were in Egypt.

williamburr2001b14_ESO · July 2014

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Played since morrowind and still enjoying it. I've had to adapt to the class system, don't like the fps in cyrodil, the vr levels can be a grind. Ithink those who thought that it would be easy to translate es into an mmo are oversimplifying what it will take.

Squeaky wheels don't help if they aren't relecting the majority.

Wheels aren't the majority of a car, you realize, but when they squeak, something is definitely wrong and needs fixing.

Takeda_Shingen · July 2014

When people criticize a game it means that they are not happy and most of the times they try to improve it. You can also take a hint when people take time to make posts instead of playing the game.

In my opinion the game till level 50 although the quest bugs and lags it is quiet good. After level 50 the real problems appear as well in pvp. The last patch with the changes which had, it made the game getting backwards. Perhaps there isn't a clear strategy where the dev's would like to lead the game, but there are doing some things wrong which effects the players and the game.

Right now the game reminds me Konan which has started with 8 -10 servers in EU and 8-10 in US and now days it has only 3 servers alive. If the game developers can't understand and follow what the majority wants then the same thing will happen in this game. It is a bit sad having played Morrowind Oblivion Skyrim and finally in Elder Scrolls online to be disappointed.

Still hope that the game will get a bit fixed but reality with every patch doesn't help. Of course in a game with subscription you have more expectations if you value the money that you pay.

poodlemasterb16_ESO · July 2014

Mud_Puppy wrote: »

The notorious 301 error. How this still goes on is beyond me. Thinking it's okay to make people wait for a server reset just to play is insulting.

Not reversing the latest patch? If it takes more than 2 days to get the right hotfix out then the patch should be reversed for the time being. Seriously don't know why it hasn't.

I have never seen that error. Why would that be?

Shiroro · July 2014

The ESO defense force is crippling the game by refusing to accept that this game needs a lot of work before it's sustainable. All we can do is continue to point out what needs fixing without getting dragged into pointless arguments.

DeLindsay · July 2014

Shiroro wrote: »

The ESO defense force is crippling the game by refusing to accept that this game needs a lot of work before it's sustainable. All we can do is continue to point out what needs fixing without getting dragged into pointless arguments.

Not at all, MOST players who defend this game are well aware of the issues it has and are always hoping they improve in a reasonable time period. The issue is most of the 'haters' seem to expect a game as massive as ESO to be fixed 100% overnight and for nothing to ever go wrong again, which is literally impossible. To make it worse, I'd wager that 99% of the people complaining that ZoS doesn't do anything to fix game issues probably have never programmed in their life and have no concept for just how hard it is sometimes to find the problem in millions of lines of code.

I defend it because I see what it can BECOME and am here through the bad in hopes that when the good comes, that it's GREAT. Besides as many have stated $13-15/mo is pittance to spend on entertainment, and so far ESO has kept me entertained.

sk8ingeckoub17_ESO · July 2014

Shiroro wrote: »

The ESO defense force is crippling the game by refusing to accept that this game needs a lot of work before it's sustainable. All we can do is continue to point out what needs fixing without getting dragged into pointless arguments.

I haven't seen anyone defending the game saying that it doesn't need worked on and having things fixed. The difference is the people defending the game are saying that while yes it needs fixed its still been and is a fun / great game to play.

While on the flip side i see most of the other side shouting games broken and unplayable abandon ship.

Honestly the game is enjoyable, fun to play. there is an absolute ton of things to do, and it just feels right. The rest does need fixed but as it stands now its a great start to what should be a long road for the game.

Now if they were absolutely silent, we didn't have numerous patches / hot fixes, and the game wasn't fun i would be on your side but i have seen regular patches, updates, hot fixes and communication. the game itself is fun to play. And its the only game out right now that has what i was looking for pvp wise (unless i go back to daoc) so i feel its off to a great start.

Huckdabuck · July 2014

sk8ingeckoub17_ESO wrote: »

While on the flip side i see most of the other side shouting games broken and unplayable abandon ship.

Honestly the game is enjoyable, fun to play. there is an absolute ton of things to do, and it just feels right. The rest does need fixed but as it stands now its a great start to what should be a long road for the game.

Now if they were absolutely silent, we didn't have numerous patches / hot fixes, and the game wasn't fun i would be on your side but i have seen regular patches, updates, hot fixes and communication. the game itself is fun to play. And its the only game out right now that has what i was looking for pvp wise (unless i go back to daoc) so i feel its off to a great start.

I'm VR12 and PvE end game is really non-existent in this game (in my opinion) so I do my raiding in another game altogether. The sole and ONLY reason I subbed to ESO was for the PvP and enjoyment it permits. How's that 5-10 fps working for me you ask? Not that great but thanks for asking!

zgrssd · July 2014

RazielSR wrote: »

We were not trolls. With "we" I mean people complaining here while others were calling us with names. Now I'm reading a lot of topics here, and inside there are a lot of people posging and saying they defended the game from the beginning and spent a lof money in the game.

And I am now saying: Pigs can fly. Are the pigs flying yet?
Nope. I guess I can say a lot. And I don't even have to proove it is true. Or possible at all.

You should note that what you describe is the Wikipedia definition of Concern Trolling:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolling#Concern_troll

A concern troll is a false flag pseudonym created by a user whose actual point of view is opposed to the one that the troll claims to hold. The concern troll posts in Web forums devoted to its declared point of view and attempts to sway the group's actions or opinions while claiming to share their goals, but with professed "concerns". The goal is to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt within the group.

An example of this occurred in 2006 when Tad Furtado, a staffer for then-Congressman Charles Bass (R-NH), was caught posing as a "concerned" supporter of Bass' opponent, Democrat Paul Hodes, on several liberal New Hampshire blogs, using the pseudonyms "IndieNH" or "IndyNH". "IndyNH" expressed concern that Democrats might just be wasting their time or money on Hodes, because Bass was unbeatable. Hodes eventually won the election.

8 Years in real life is like 40 Computer years. So it's a really old hat.

LrdRahvin · July 2014

DeLindsay wrote: »

LrdRahvinb14a_ESO wrote: »

Right....constant conflict with the numerous "barbarian" tribes had nothing to do with it...Let's see Celts sacked Rome under Brennus...much later various of the "goth" tribes- most notably the Visigoths- made things virtually untenable, in addition to taking the city again. Internal corruption and power struggles...Increasing power in the east centered on Constaninople (later to become the Byzantine Empire after the Empire in the west truly fell...none of these things had anything to do with the fall of the Roman Empire...it was high taxes...

Faux news called...they want to offer you a job.

I'm sorry that you misread my comment. No where did I say that high taxes is what caused Rome to fall. It's well documented that the increasingly high tax rate under various emperors was an attempt to KEEP Rome from failing under it's own weight (expansion, lavish lifestyles). My comment was in reference to another saying "and Rome didn't charge it's citizens $15/mo to live in the gutter" that Rome had a massive tax rate.

Had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with "lavish lifestyles".

Most of Rome's public wealth in its' latter days went to paying tribute to the various "barbarian" tribes (again most notably the Visigoths and Ostragoths) and actually employing many as part of the Roman military so they couldn't band together and grind the city into the dust...NOT expensive Togas

I sincerely hope you don't apply the same reasoning skills and insightful analysis to the game as you did to the fall of the Roman Empire...you might give ZOS ideas...ah, who am I kidding...the game is already borked beyond repair :'(

Also, Faux News called again....there seems to be a problem with the references you gave on your resume

Exarch · July 2014

LrdRahvinb14a_ESO wrote: »

Had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with "lavish lifestyles".

Most of Rome's public wealth in its' latter days went to paying tribute to the various "barbarian" tribes (again most notably the Visigoths and Ostragoths) and actually employing many as part of the Roman military so they couldn't band together and grind the city into the dust...NOT expensive Togas

I sincerely hope you don't apply the same reasoning skills and insightful analysis to the game as you did to the fall of the Roman Empire...you might give ZOS ideas...ah, who am I kidding...the game is already borked beyond repair :'(

Also, Faux News called again....there seems to be a problem with the references you gave on your resume

The consolidation of land ownership into latifundia with the concomitant erosion of the tax base, culminating in Diocletian converting tenant farmers into serfs, arguably contributed strongly to Rome's inability to respond to Germanic incursions, and helped generate the shortage of soldiers that motivated Valen to allow the Visigoths to settle in Roman territory.

Not the same as high taxes, but there were systemic tax-related issues.

*Edited for tense, and punctuation.

LrdRahvin · July 2014

Exarch wrote: »

LrdRahvinb14a_ESO wrote: »

Had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with "lavish lifestyles".

Most of Rome's public wealth in its' latter days went to paying tribute to the various "barbarian" tribes (again most notably the Visigoths and Ostragoths) and actually employing many as part of the Roman military so they couldn't band together and grind the city into the dust...NOT expensive Togas

I sincerely hope you don't apply the same reasoning skills and insightful analysis to the game as you did to the fall of the Roman Empire...you might give ZOS ideas...ah, who am I kidding...the game is already borked beyond repair :'(

Also, Faux News called again....there seems to be a problem with the references you gave on your resume

The consolidation of land ownership into latifundia with the concomitant erosion of the tax base, culminating in Diocletian converting tenant farmers into serfs, arguably contributed strongly to Rome's inability to respond to Germanic incursions, and helped generated the shortage of soldiers that motivated Valen to allow the Visigoth's to settle in Roman territory.

Not the same as high taxes, but there were systemic tax-related issues.

Agreed, but...

Shhhhhh...I was having fun

Also you might give him the idea that what he said had some value

Gix · July 2014

I love how some of the folks that complain has this "you hate it but you just haven't realized it yet; I know the real truth" attitude.

"I used to defend the game but now I know the truth - you too will eventually see the truth"

uhuh?

The other spectrum isn't any better, either.

"Oh no! People aren't seeing the fun in the game! If I don't stop all this negativity, the thing I love will slowly die!"

Moral of the story. Don't be an idiot and don't be on either end of the spectrum. Your experience and expectations is not the same as everyone else.

DeLindsay · July 2014

LrdRahvinb14a_ESO wrote: »

Had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with "lavish lifestyles".

Most of Rome's public wealth in its' latter days went to paying tribute to the various "barbarian" tribes (again most notably the Visigoths and Ostragoths) and actually employing many as part of the Roman military so they couldn't band together and grind the city into the dust...NOT expensive Togas

I sincerely hope you don't apply the same reasoning skills and insightful analysis to the game as you did to the fall of the Roman Empire...you might give ZOS ideas...ah, who am I kidding...the game is already borked beyond repair :'(

Also, Faux News called again....there seems to be a problem with the references you gave on your resume

Annnnnd the taxes came from the CITIZENS just like I said. Paying a giant army cost a giant amount of money. Paying "barbarian" tribes to keep their mouth shut and allow Rome to rule them, or their borders also costs a giant amount of money. Building massive structures and a very impressive road and irrigation, not to mention public works system costs a giant amount of money. That money came from conquer via ruthless expansion and citizen taxation.

Flynch · July 2014

Do you think that had they not included the Imperials as bonus content, we'd not be having Rome-based analogies?