When will they nerf DK again for PVP?

Vis · June 2014

monkeymystic wrote: »

Sorcerers complain when their own OP spells with 36-40 meter range gets reflected back at them.

Stopped reading there because it became obvious you have nothing accurate to say.

SRIBES · June 2014

Vis wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

Sorcerers complain when their own OP spells with 36-40 meter range gets reflected back at them.

Stopped reading there because it became obvious you have nothing accurate to say.

He's kinda got a point. I think he's trying to say; Don't throw projectiles at people who flop there big ass wings. There is only one projectile in the sorcerer class. Using abilites while a templar has his bubble around you or a dragonknight has reflect on is hurting yourself more then it hurts them. Simply avoiding using that skill in the fight is easy, you have 10 abilites not using 1 will help you a lot in the fight. You can still use it just make sure there shield isn't uo and only use it when it's a active cast. There are so many counters to it..

Erock25 · June 2014

AsweetRoll wrote: »

Vis wrote: »

monkeymystic wrote: »

Sorcerers complain when their own OP spells with 36-40 meter range gets reflected back at them.

Stopped reading there because it became obvious you have nothing accurate to say.

He's kinda got a point. I think he's trying to say; Don't throw projectiles at people who flop there big ass wings. There is only one projectile in the sorcerer class. Using abilites while a templar has his bubble around you or a dragonknight has reflect on is hurting yourself more then it hurts them. Simply avoiding using that skill in the fight is easy, you have 10 abilites not using 1 will help you a lot in the fight. You can still use it just make sure there shield isn't uo and only use it when it's a active cast. There are so many counters to it..

He's kinda got a point that sorc has 37-40m range spells?

apostate9 · June 2014

Erock25 wrote: »

ArRashid wrote: »

Ahem. Aren't those giant wings visible enough to stop noobs from casting spells for 4 seconds?
If they just waited, his dps potential would slowly reach zero, because he would just have to spam reflect without getting any magicka back, and you'd also STOP HITTING YOURSELF!

Or just give Syrabane a long internal cooldown, like most proc sets have. That way you can deal with this build WITHOUT hurting whole class.

I'd like to know what happens in the fight where 2 ppl have spell reflect (2 templars, 2 DKs, templar vs DK) would all spells bounce between them till one of them would run out of magicka for reflects and get burned instantly?

@ArRashid‌

You act as if the DK would just sit there and do nothing for those 4 seconds (+4 seconds, +4 seconds, etc as he can keep casting it, you know). I honestly don't see how anyone can watch this video and truly believe that this is balanced.

It is completely balanced. What is NOT balanced is the skill levels involved. Dot. So qq moar, but they prolly aren't nerfing DK anymore, because there are still a few DK subscribers that haven't quit yet. ZOS would ostensibly like someone to play this game.

Stratti · June 2014

Sypherpkub17_ESO wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

Setup much. This so called evidence of OP is one ability they videoed while having a laugh for the purpose of trolling. Its a setup nothing to see here .

Conspiracy theories now a days.

Maybe your unsure of the meaning of conspiracy theory as opposed to critically reviewing someone's so called evidence. To test this walk in the middle of a live battle between 9 others and try the same tactic . If it works then it needs a nerf.

I could pop reflective scale while 10 bowman snipe me and follow up with talons and flame breath and they will be very close to death particularly if they keep shooting. This would be a set up.

Stratti · June 2014

SaibotLiu wrote: »

lol DK's.

Most DK's are terrible players. The proof is in the fact that if you pit a terrible DK against a terrible any other class, the DK wins by default and loses no health. If you pit a skilled DK against a skilled any other class the DK wins by default and loses no health.

As a nightblade I can kill DK's, because they're mostly like big marshmellowly toddlers. But to deny that the class has totally FUBARed PVP with a total disregard for balance or fairplay is hilarious. The class needs its nuts cut off.

Beware seeking the nerf bat on other lest it be used on you - rule of WoW since vanilla

Hypertionb14_ESO · June 2014

It is a bit excessive that Scales can block all ranged damage despite what the tool tip says.. Balance wise it only makes sense for it to be able reflect basic light and heavy magic attacks...

But in that video.. the only ones at fault were the idoits who continued to use ranged attacks after they not only saw him use that ability... BUT HAD THEIR ABILITYS COME BACK AND KNOCK THEM DOWN....

that one sorc cast fragments, got knocked down by the reflection and got back up only to DO IT AGAIN...

no, honestly i don't think the guy was that good..

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

demenzia · June 2014

Still haven't learnt how to roll out of talons, not to cast spells on DK with Dragon scales and not to stand the middle of the standard?

Cogo · June 2014

Hehe...I think I know the "problem" of most these posts now.

Balance is never done. They have lots to do.

BUT, apart from obvious ones. One shot vampires etc. Balance is overall okish. Not saying that it still doesn't needs work.

BUT, player skill, shows a lot more. I am sorry, but even if this is a game, this is also the real world. Some players are better then you.

Believe me, I know, I get my INTIRE butt kicked if I try ANY 1v1 in Cyro. So I run!

SRIBES · June 2014

I'm tired of all you bitching.
HOW TO BEAT A DK
1) Use the curse eater set for 33% reduced duration of there DoTs. (7/7 light. Impenitrable on the light armor that is crafted)
2) Use efficent Purge when needed to get 83% reduced duration of things like unstable flame, talons, etc. 83% with curse eater.
3) Stay out of standard and places where you can get trapped, ex. the logs that sypher trapped them in the video.
4) high spell crit to hit harder, be bursty if possible but sustain yourself.
5) Use damage shields or lots of heals. The sorcerer class has hardened ward + harness for very little damage to spells which is amazing when stacked with the curse eater set. If not sorc use lots of heals whether it be class heal or resto staff heal.
6) Use CC abilities then follow up with a burst like ability. Ex. Soul assult or Nbs death stroke(also reduces healing!) using these cc abilites is good because it prevents them from healing up with dragons blood, nbs burst makes there dragons blood nothing and same with battle roar.
7) Don't use stamina abilites, be magika class ability focused so you can break out of stuns and block attacks. Make sure you roll out of talons (not if purge is active) and stay out of standard.
8) if they use magma armor try to use DoTs to wreck through if.
9) Be better and out think/out last them. You can win if you're a better player but they can just as eaily win.
These are just a few ways to beat a dk.. If there's easy counters they don't need a nerf.
And 10) Catch them off guard if you're class plans to use projectiles; this works really well on a sorc, stay at a range and pretend like you're about to cast fragments but cancel it so it doesn't case and they just wasted magika using scales. When scale isn't up use a ability like streak and then fragment afterwords to catch them off guard. Just be smart

Cogo · June 2014

AsweetRoll wrote: »

I'm tired of all you bitching.
HOW TO BEAT A DK

Cool list! Though, you could just said, skill! ;-)

Gwarok · June 2014

Cogo wrote: »

Hehe...I think I know the "problem" of most these posts now.

Balance is never done. They have lots to do.

BUT, apart from obvious ones....

Once baddies started :'( :'( ing for nerfs and got their wish when the game launched. Well....

Obvious imbalance was obvious

...and with that being said; this game will NEVER reach a balanced state between classes until ALL spells for all classes hit an opponent for one HP and heals you for 2 HP and can't not be re-casted for 10 seconds. PERIOD!

Oh, and NO ONE DIES! EVVVVVAAAAAARRRRRRR!!!!

/troll off

monden1980b16_ESO · June 2014

Just on a side note: DK's Reflective Scale is again an example, how overpowered DK's are compared to other classes:

DK Reflective Scale (Dragonfire Scale): Reflects all projectiles with 20% damage increase

Templar Eclipse (Unstable Core): Has to be cast on a target, targets single target spells are reflected, deals damage to nearby enemies when effect ends.

Which one would you choose? I think it's quite obvious, which ability is better (DK: become immune against spell projectiles, Templar: immune against spell projectiles of *one* target)

ForTheRealm · June 2014

Erock25 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eiusig1zOlY

I'm was thinking resuming leveling mine up and was just wondering if they had any plans to to nerf some of these OP abilities in PVP? Reflective Scale + Syrabane Set, Battle Roar passives, Green Dragon Blood.

Does anyone else better at PVP than I am think any other classes would survive that initial attack by 6-7 people all in veteran ranks?

LOL
The DK wings animation is one of the most visible effects on the field.
If someone casts spell projectile towards that, it is just plain suicide mode.
I guess the team was totally uncoordinated or fresh starters in Cyrodill.

ForTheRealm · June 2014

monden1980b16_ESO wrote: »

Just on a side note: DK's Reflective Scale is again an example, how overpowered DK's are compared to other classes:

DK Reflective Scale (Dragonfire Scale): Reflects all projectiles with 20% damage increase

Templar Eclipse (Unstable Core): Has to be cast on a target, targets single target spells are reflected, deals damage to nearby enemies when effect ends.

Which one would you choose? I think it's quite obvious, which ability is better (DK: become immune against spell projectiles, Templar: immune against spell projectiles of *one* target)

DKs do not have any reasonable offensive ranged abilities, like Templar Javelin, Shards or Flare.
If they do not have ability like Reflective Scale, they would be a free meal for any ranged character.

monden1980b16_ESO · June 2014

piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »

monden1980b16_ESO wrote: »

Just on a side note: DK's Reflective Scale is again an example, how overpowered DK's are compared to other classes:

DK Reflective Scale (Dragonfire Scale): Reflects all projectiles with 20% damage increase

Templar Eclipse (Unstable Core): Has to be cast on a target, targets single target spells are reflected, deals damage to nearby enemies when effect ends.

Which one would you choose? I think it's quite obvious, which ability is better (DK: become immune against spell projectiles, Templar: immune against spell projectiles of *one* target)

DKs do not have any reasonable offensive ranged abilities, like Templar Javelin, Shards or Flare.
If they do not have ability like Reflective Scale, they would be a free meal for any ranged character.

Javelin costs very much magicka (DK has Extended Chains and Stone Fist, which does about the same as javelin, plus DKs even have a ranged stun: Petrify)
Shards and Flare... I'm still trying to make any good use out of these 2 abilities in PvP... actually I don't use them any more... one is ground targeted, the other one has a long cast time...

Both classes have access to gap closers in weapon lines (sword+board charge, 2hand, ...)

ForTheRealm · June 2014

monden1980b16_ESO wrote: »

piotreb17_ESO4 wrote: »

monden1980b16_ESO wrote: »

Just on a side note: DK's Reflective Scale is again an example, how overpowered DK's are compared to other classes:

DK Reflective Scale (Dragonfire Scale): Reflects all projectiles with 20% damage increase

Templar Eclipse (Unstable Core): Has to be cast on a target, targets single target spells are reflected, deals damage to nearby enemies when effect ends.

Which one would you choose? I think it's quite obvious, which ability is better (DK: become immune against spell projectiles, Templar: immune against spell projectiles of *one* target)

DKs do not have any reasonable offensive ranged abilities, like Templar Javelin, Shards or Flare.
If they do not have ability like Reflective Scale, they would be a free meal for any ranged character.

Javelin costs very much magicka (DK has Extended Chains and Stone Fist, which does about the same as javelin, plus DKs even have a ranged stun: Petrify)
Shards and Flare... I'm still trying to make any good use out of these 2 abilities in PvP... actually I don't use them any more... one is ground targeted, the other one has a long cast time...

Both classes have access to gap closers in weapon lines (sword+board charge, 2hand, ...)

By ranged abilities I mean abilities with a range of 20m and above.
Stone Fist is 10m only so it is more melee. Extended Chains is 22m, but is a close gapper which cannot be used to do damage from a range.

Javelin is 20m, Shards 25m and Flare 28m. See a difference? If a caster (e.g. Templar) is 20+ meteres from DK, and a DK does not have Reflective Scale - it is a free meal for the caster.

ForTheRealm · June 2014

double post

JLB · June 2014

Let's see here.
Scales:
-reflects all spells
-for 4 seconds
-no target limitation (self-buff)
-no amount of damage limitation
-no amount of reflected spells limitation
-cost is relatively cheap so you can constantly spam it.

The ability is extraordinarily strong. If someone is remotely interested in making this ability a bit more balanced (I mean down here, in Tamriel, not up there in the reigns of immortality) should agree one of the previous points should be changed.

AZRainman · June 2014

Considering the designers and most players love to cry for the nerf hammer 24/7, I'd say you got 2 weeks tops before they throw down another slam.

If this masochistic attitude prevails: by the end of summer the classes will be so watered down and ineffective, even wolves and mudcrabs will present a challenge and most will have moved on to other games.

Maybe we need to start rebuking those who want to drive off the subscribers?

Maulkin · June 2014

JLB wrote: »

Let's see here.
Scales:
-reflects all spells
-for 4 seconds
-no target limitation (self-buff)
-no amount of damage limitation
-no amount of reflected spells limitation
-cost is relatively cheap so you can constantly spam it.

The ability is extraordinarily strong. If someone is remotely interested in making this ability a bit more balanced (I mean down here, in Tamriel, not up there in the reigns of immortality) should agree one of the previous points should be changed.

Let's see.

Reflects all spells? No, only single target projectiles. AoEs, channels and some other types of spell attacks (like Mage's Fury for example) it doesn't.

4 seconds. Yes I agree, it's a very short duration. Make it 8

No target limitation. It only hits 1 target, then guy who cast the spell. It's not an AoE. Maybe when you see those giant wings don't cast projectiles at the DK?

No amount of damage limitation. I'll tell you how to limit the damage, stop throwing projectiles at the giant wings. That should limit the damage.

No amount of reflected spell limitation. It's only 4 secs, pal! How many projectile spells do you manage to chuck at those giant wings in 4 secs? Are you trying to self-harm?

Cost is cheap. Not it isn't. It's got 49 base cost and if you're going for a melee build with either heavy or medium armour, that's pretty expensive. I've not seen anyone "spam it".

Here's the funny thing. I have a Sorc, a Templar and a DK char. In none of the 3 chars do I have more than 1 spell projectile attack on my bar. There's just not that many. For the 4 secs that those wings are up, just don't use that 1 attack.

Oh and "When will they nerf DK again for PVP?".
Right after you l2p. That's probably never then...

e.jeffriesb14_ESO · June 2014

Mage's Fury IS reflected. Also Flying Blade, Lethal Arrow, and easily 80%+ of offensive abilities. Neat trick: Silver Bolts/Shards are reflected, including the proc - even if the caster isn't suitable for the proc. That was a helluva lot of fun while Silver Bolts was bugged.

For an example list of class abilities that aren't reflected, let's use Sorc: pets, daedric curse, encase, daedric mines, lightning splash. Then ultimates, but I hope you don't expect people to fall back on ults to deal with a single class ability. If a sorc doesn't happen to have those slotted, then their only recourse is white damage, which is laughable. Of course, mines, splash and pets (with the possible exception of volatile familiar) are also laughable. This leaves daedric curse and encase. Encase is expensive, low damage, and only useful to stamina-based crit builds. Slotting it just to deal with one possible enemy build is silly.

Hurray, sorcs have one (1) ability that's worth using against a reflecting DK. Too bad they don't stack up - recasting resets the timer.

All of that said, I don't have an issue with that one ability. The problem I have with DK's is they have too much going for them at once - too much general defense/unbelievable self healing/CC/overall DPS all at once. I'd have that issue with any class/build setup. No one should be able to be that strong in so many areas all at one time.

I say this as a player with vet level PvP characters of all 4 classes. I'm not partial to any one class or play style. I enjoy gank groups with my NB, large scale siege with DK, all sorts of playstyles with my Sorc, and... I should spend more time on my Templar again.

Every class has a few really great builds, but there's a reason why there are so many DKs in Cyrodiil that use (or are working up to) the same general build. That reason is not skill, it's class imbalance. Next time you're in a full raid, check the party demographics.

zoetaz1616 · June 2014

The best thing Zeni can do is give all the classes the same abilities so that no one has to learn tactics and how to fight at all. This way, everyone will have an equal chance to win despite level or personal skill. After that we can do the same in the work place, because God knows I'm sick of working so hard. The lazy stupid people deserve to have my job too.

Kublakan · June 2014

Nerfing DK again? Wow, I just cant believe some peeps still ask for it.

xMovingTarget · June 2014

Vis wrote: »

My issue with DKs is the price of scales.

It's almost the same price as bolt PRE nerf. So we had (and still have) DKs qq'ing about post sorc nerf "bolt spam" when even in our hay day we could not spam it as much as DKs can spam scales now.

I am sick and tired of qq'ing DKs when they still have the ability to be permanently immune from ALL ranged single target damage from ALL attackers. It's nuts to imagine.

Am I asking for a DK nerf? No!

Am I asking for DKs to shut up and stop playing their violins? Yes!

This community here is just bad.

Nurf this, nurf that, because some other player is stronger than me. blah blah blah.

Why the hell do i get insulted by other players just because i play DK. Some people really need to get their arses back on the ground here.

The community in ESO or lets say mostly the forum community is getting worse and worse.

And you person i qouted above are a good example why.

Kublakan wrote: »

Nerfing DK again? Wow, I just cant believe some peeps still ask for it. And reflective isn't a DK set, its a weapon set.

No and Yes. These people are not talking about the reflect skill from onehand and shield. They are talking about a dragon knight class spell called reflective scale.

Syrrisdevlin · June 2014

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Personally, I still think DKs are a bit too strong. The Talons/Banner combo in PvP is a bit rough. An AoE CC with DoT all rolled into one is exceptionally strong...

umm combo general means two or more things so how do you get Aoe CC with Dot all rolled in to one when you have a combo wouldn't that be rolled in to two since its a combo?? BTW please sorc got the same *** if they combo a couple things together cant remember their names off hand but they have a root thing similar to talons and im sure they got a nice aoe dmg dot ability

Erock25 · June 2014

e.jeffriesb14_ESO wrote: »

Mage's Fury IS reflected. Also Flying Blade, Lethal Arrow, and easily 80%+ of offensive abilities. Neat trick: Silver Bolts/Shards are reflected, including the proc - even if the caster isn't suitable for the proc. That was a helluva lot of fun while Silver Bolts was bugged.

For an example list of class abilities that aren't reflected, let's use Sorc: pets, daedric curse, encase, daedric mines, lightning splash. Then ultimates, but I hope you don't expect people to fall back on ults to deal with a single class ability. If a sorc doesn't happen to have those slotted, then their only recourse is white damage, which is laughable. Of course, mines, splash and pets (with the possible exception of volatile familiar) are also laughable. This leaves daedric curse and encase. Encase is expensive, low damage, and only useful to stamina-based crit builds. Slotting it just to deal with one possible enemy build is silly.

Hurray, sorcs have one (1) ability that's worth using against a reflecting DK. Too bad they don't stack up - recasting resets the timer.

All of that said, I don't have an issue with that one ability. The problem I have with DK's is they have too much going for them at once - too much general defense/unbelievable self healing/CC/overall DPS all at once. I'd have that issue with any class/build setup. No one should be able to be that strong in so many areas all at one time.

I say this as a player with vet level PvP characters of all 4 classes. I'm not partial to any one class or play style. I enjoy gank groups with my NB, large scale siege with DK, all sorts of playstyles with my Sorc, and... I should spend more time on my Templar again.

Every class has a few really great builds, but there's a reason why there are so many DKs in Cyrodiil that use (or are working up to) the same general build. That reason is not skill, it's class imbalance. Next time you're in a full raid, check the party demographics.

Good post. Also want to add that Crushing Shock from Destro staff is reflected as well. Bottom line is DK Reflective Scale gives them immunity from such a large section of most forms of incoming DPS and as you can see in the video, Reflective Scale can be used over and over again, thus completely shutting out opposing players. Don't give me crap saying it has a high cost either, as you can see in the video that he casts it four times over the course of the battle against 6 people, while casting many other spells, and not using a magicka pot.

It is just hilarious to me that people can stick up for this after watching that video. What are those players supposed to do? If the people casting projectiles just stopped and let the melee attack, the outcome would have been the same. Melee was melted in seconds with Standard and Talons combo + a whip or two.

IMAGINE IF HE WAS USING SYRABANE SET!?

It is funny the level of crying from many DK on this board about Sorc's ESCAPE ability but then when something like this comes up where there is video evidence of it being completely overpowered, those same DK are defending it.

Reflective Scale needs to be the same as One Hand and Shield skill Defensive Posture. Reflects one ranged attack and it is gone.

Erock25 · June 2014

Syrrisdevlin wrote: »

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

Personally, I still think DKs are a bit too strong. The Talons/Banner combo in PvP is a bit rough. An AoE CC with DoT all rolled into one is exceptionally strong...

umm combo general means two or more things so how do you get Aoe CC with Dot all rolled in to one when you have a combo wouldn't that be rolled in to two since its a combo?? BTW please sorc got the same *** if they combo a couple things together cant remember their names off hand but they have a root thing similar to talons and im sure they got a nice aoe dmg dot ability

Burning Talons is the AoE CC plus DoT plus direct damage combo rolled into one. Standard is just the icing on the cake.

Sorc root is a frontal cone (I hope you realize how much better 360 degrees is compared to 90 degree angle), costs more magicka, and doesn't do as much damage.

xMovingTarget · June 2014

Stop with it already. This game dont need anymore nerfs. Its a too much nerffest already. If you are so jelous about this skills, You should have rolled a DK.

Always this "that class got cooler skills than mine". Comon. catch a god damn break already..

Erock25 · June 2014

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Stop with it already. This game dont need anymore nerfs. Its a too much nerffest already. If you are so jelous about this skills, You should have rolled a DK.

Always this "that class got cooler skills than mine". Comon. catch a god damn break already..

Immunity from well over half of all incoming dmg in Cyrodiil is not a small problem. Have you been in Cyrodiil lately? Do you not see the wings sprouting up left and right nonstop while fighting enemies?