Should vampires and werewolves be removed from the game?

Mescalamba · June 2014

Loligo wrote: »

OP Translation "Being a WW or Vampire doesn't make me a game-breaking uber death machine, therefore, they suck and should be removed."

Right now, it makes you game broken class in PvP. Despite fact that I dont care about PvP a lot of people do. And there is some probability that I might actually do one day too.

WW or Vampire arent now game breaking uber death machine. Right now they are both useless in PvP and only Vampires are somewhat usable in PvE.

So dont try to twist game reality..

Mescalamba · June 2014

Csub wrote: »

Everybody? I think you mean you and certain other people, but "everybody" is not the correct word for it.

No, they shouldn`t be removed. It`s your own choice to become one. It is not a superpower, it is a disease with drawbacks.

I remember, shortly after release, when Vampires were much more OP, many of them said "well it`s your choice if you don`t want to be a vampire, you could become one as well if you wanted". Now, that they are nerfed, many of them quickly forgot about the option of curing themselves.

Yes, I was a vampire too, no, I didn`t PvP much. I am a healer, so I cured myself, didn`t want to get 1-hit in Dungeons more than needed. I do miss my ultimate and drain for questing ,but I can live without them.

I didnt give up on my vamps yet, neither wolves. I dont plan to, unless they nerf them so much it will be impossible to play.

Sure, you can live without your vampire skills. Everyone can. But tell me, whats point of having something in game, that you quite literally cant use?

Since you couldnt survive in dungeons, you left being vampire. So you feel perfectly okay with fact that something you probably liked was taken from you?

Mescalamba · June 2014

Allonan wrote: »

I hate it when people try and balance a game or aspect purely for PvP reasons. PvP is only a part of the game. ESO exists because of the lore and removing them would turn this into any other PvP only game in my opinion.

Me too.

Doesnt change fact, that for plenty of VR12 (and soon higher) PvP is "end game". So game really does need tad bit of balancing there. But as you pointed out, it shouldnt kill PvE in process. Or make it "like any other game".

Sieghart · June 2014

How long has this game being out for? Iv played like many of you since beta, but seriously, This hasn't been a long cycle yet of released game life.

I really enjoy these additions, its almost like another race entirely which I always figured it would be. True, the Wolves need attention but they got a bit this patch which is good. Yes, its not a full fix, just like everything else. Because this is an MMO and that means it evolves over time, But its proof that they are working looking into it and have put in place something.

I have only just started playing around with wolves, and while increased time would be sweet. Don't we have passives and morphs increase the time we have in transformation if we use them? Devour has been changed to allow more feedings (as before having all the bodies in an area go black once you have fed once was kinda crumby)

on vampires, I don't have a character that isn't one or the other. I like the ES world and I love the vamp/wolf twists that I cant get in many other games.
Just because others feel offended because (seems to be mainly) of terrible movies/books doesn't mean that others enjoy the other mythos of them.

Being offended by something because you don't like it, so requesting it removed, meaning others that do enjoy it wont get to do what they like...
is that how people really think?

because that's a pretty terrible world view.

anyhoo, people enjoy things you don't like or don't want to like, get over it and either ignore it or come to a realization that it doesn't force you to like it or use it.

Thanks for the big update, really enjoyed the new stuff and the further improvements.

Really looking forward to next months dye stuff!

JessieColt · June 2014

I do not PvP so I cannot address any issues related to Vamp/WW in PvP.

But removing them from the game will not resolve any underlying issue with things that need to be changed/adjusted/addressed.

I like being a Vamp in ESO. I liked being a WW in Skyrim.

They are part of the lore of TES.

Removing them to address a limited issue is like burning down an entire city to get rid of termites in one building.

While it might solve some immediate problem, people would just find something else to complain about and doing so would impact far more people in a negative way than it would positive.

So no, I do not believe that they should be removed from the game.

Mescalamba · June 2014

Sieghart wrote: »

True, the Wolves need attention but they got a bit this patch which is good. Yes, its not a full fix, just like everything else. Because this is an MMO and that means it evolves over time, But its proof that they are working looking into it and have put in place something.

That "fix" doesnt work. Apart from that our dear werewolves are about as useful as they always were. Means not at all.

On top of that if you put your cold nose into PvP, you will be instakilled with silver bolt.

Im not sure they are "working on it" cause only thing I saw so far was nerf to vamps, nerf to vamps (which IMHO was needed). Which now graded to "let wolves/vamps be instakilled in PvP".

So thats what they improved so far.. As owner of both mentioned "species" Im not happy.

Zorrashi · June 2014

I vote no just for the sake of diversity. If people want to be a furry big wolf, let em. If people want to be pale red-eyed humanoids, I say go on ahead.

The skill lines just make those transformations worth the physical morph, as many people demanded that werewolves and vampires be in game. Its a really big fan base. (Especially when Twilight came out.

) Don't see any reason to get rid of them.

Sieghart · June 2014

Mescalamba wrote: »

So thats what they improved so far.. As owner of both mentioned "species" Im not happy.

appreciate that they haven't "fixed" it but they have done things so far. They are still doing things and there are a long list of things they need to fix/improve. We need to realize that WW and Vamps were something that probably only high levels were suppose to be as its a rare spawn in an end zone. They probably could have left it out until a later date.

They didn't, its in there, people like to be one for their reasons, things are happening. Slow I know, but its happening.

If it was a choice of remove it till a later date or play it now as is and it will slowly get better, can you really say you would remove it all together and be happy?
if that's the case, its pretty mean for others who enjoy it for now with the knowledge that its still a new mmo and things will improve.

Has it been said officially that the issue with silver bolts is "as intended"
I didn't see if that was the case. So hopefully if it is such a big issue, and not just 1 or 2 people shouting it everywhere, then it will get fixed as they have been doing to other things. Not everything at once, but they have been doing things that have shown improvements.

demonlkojipub19_ESO · June 2014

Why is there no "Squirrel" option?

AlexDougherty · June 2014

demonlkojipub19_ESO wrote: »

Why is there no "Squirrel" option?

Squirrels ate the squirrel option, they thought it was food.

Sieghart · June 2014

+1 for were squirrel transformation...

prepare your nuts... for WAR!

Hostel_Striker · June 2014

I'm neither and I don't think they should have an advantage. How dumb would the game be if everyone had to be a vamp or a WW simply because they are the best? Might as well watch Twilight if that's what you're looking for.

Raash · June 2014

Of coarse shouldnt they be removed. They should enhance the system surrounding vampires, werewolves and those that went natural way.
Bring consequences to the game instead of the lazy skill line setup we have now.
I want to be able to hunt vampire and werewolves anywhere, or be their friend if i choose to be.

Mescalamba · June 2014

Hostel_Striker wrote: »

I'm neither and I don't think they should have an advantage. How dumb would the game be if everyone had to be a vamp or a WW simply because they are the best? Might as well watch Twilight if that's what you're looking for.

They shouldnt be "best". But then, its hard to achieve real balance of things. So I would go with "dangerous with setbacks", something that would require a bit of skill to master and play.

Its not much different than DK vs everything.. There will be always something bit better, complete balance is impossible.

Mescalamba · June 2014

Sieghart wrote: »

+1 for were squirrel transformation...

prepare your nuts... for WAR!

Or wereboars.

Guppet · June 2014

They should never have been added in the first place. In offline games they are great. In competitive MMO's if anything gives you more power than other things, it becomes mandatory. Werewolves and Vampires are supposed to be much much stronger than normal folks.

The current way they are implemented is crazy, they should be twice as powerful as a normal person, but that cant work in an MMO, or there are no normal people, cos when every body is super, no one is.

coryevans_3b14_ESO · June 2014

Mescalamba wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

They should have never had any great advantages at all. It think they should be such that 9 in 10 players would chose to cure themselves. Vampires are still far from this state.

I like you "[snip] logic" guys. So you add in game skill line, which would be played at best with 1 from 10 people, cause disadvantages would be either too great, or advantages not worth it at all.

Have you ever used your brain to actually think "why would be that skill line in game at all then?".

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

LOL this guy, he starts his "poll" by insulting everyone, and then continues to insult everyone that disagrees with him.

Immortal_Wombat · June 2014

I noticed under your posts it says your a proud owner of a werewolf vampire army and use large doses of irony. I'm almost suspecting this discussion is a test...

Spiritreaver_ESO · June 2014

Mescalamba wrote: »

I got this idea after reading that Silverbolt flamewar. Lots of really stupid opinions there. It seems that most of people there would be happy, if there were no vampires and werewolves in PvP.

Right now, vampires offer very little advantage (if they work correctly at all, not sure if patch fixed their numerous issues). Werewolf advantage is low ultimate generation, if you take damage. Thats all what werewolves are.

In reality (game reality), neither of these have any cool factor (apart looks and quite miserable time limited transform). Both have much more downsides than upsides (werewolves .. I could go as far as to say, they dont have point at all right now).

So, since everyone apparently hate them for.. existing? I guess. Why not remove them from game?

Cause really, what is point of having two crippled skill lines, which you quite obviously cant use in PvP and either suck in PvE or do pretty much nothing in PvE.

So how these two deserve they place in ESO? I guess they dont.

PS: Without doubt, this game has one of worst playerbases I ever saw.

Since this a pure opinion thread and i have errands to run, dropping this and going-may try and read whole thread later.

No OP, these two skill lines should not be removed from the game. Any problems that these skill lines caused(and imo its mainly the vampire line, though the acquisition of both lines were quite disruptive in the short term early on) ultimately falls at the feet of ZOS for one very important reason. They underestimated their playerbase.

ZOS assumed that systems and skills that were totally OK in a PvE setting would somehow fly in PvP. And that was not the case. We've all seen that drama play out so i won't belabor the point rehashing it. Suffice it to say it was a very bad call on the part of ZOS.

Because of the mishandling of these optional skill lines(can't stress the 'optional' enough. Despite what anyone ever said on the subject, a player does not HAVE to be a vampire or a werewolf in TESO. That was/is just the mob mentality of MMOs at work), they will always have a stigma associated with them in this game. But i think we players need to keep in mind the root cause and not dig on the skill lines themselves.

Especially as they are currently. Which is to say mainly 'flavor' skill lines, which have no real bearing on a player character's progression since they 100% optional.

Just my opinion anyways.

Nyghthowler · June 2014

RedMiniStapler wrote: »

Forget removing vampires and werewolves, I want vampire AND werewolf hybrid called werevamp or vampwolf (haven't really worked out a cool name yet), who's with me? No? No one?....

And they could all look like that little Vamparanian, PacMan, in Blade Trinity.

Mescalamba · June 2014

Immortal_Wombat wrote: »

I noticed under your posts it says your a proud owner of a werewolf vampire army and use large doses of irony. I'm almost suspecting this discussion is a test...

Sigh, yes. You win little non-important badge of using your own brain. Keep it that way.

SilverWF · June 2014

Sure not, what a strange poll?

Also, they need to add even more guilds and add it ASAP, because ppl start leaving this game...

Elirienne · June 2014

The answer is yes, if your question was "should *playable* vampires and werewolves get removed.

I don't care about npcs.

Morticielle · June 2014

They should be removed from the game together with Dragonknights, Sorcerers, Templars, Nightblades, Werewolves, Mage Guild, Fighters Guild, Undaunted, bows, shields, one- and two-handed weapons, staffs, light, medium and heavy armor. And every race and animal besides skeever should be removed too. Skeevers are cool.

drogon1 · June 2014

Why would players want things to limit player options. Some folks might really like to play Vamps or Werewolves, just for the f of it. They are already in game, why suggest removing them? /boggle

Phantax · June 2014

Really? people are considering two of the most iconic, integral things in TES are possibly removed !
I ..... whatever !

KhajitFurTrader · June 2014

Another botched poll. Squirrel and/or Bacon voting option is missing. Boo!

OT: Neither/nor should be removed, such blasphemy even suggesting it!
Each one is deeply rooted in ES lore, it's very becoming for the game that they're there.

Sighlynce · June 2014

Nords and elfs maybe but not night stalkers who feed off the blood and flesh of unwilling victims... That would just be wrong

meg1972 · June 2014

I don't like them, but it should be possible for any player who wants to play V or WW to be one.

Apophiss · June 2014

But... But...

What about all those Twilight fans?